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SOHO's Antenna Jammed

Posted by michael on from the really-long-stick-needed dept.

zapp writes "Space.com has a story reporting that the communications antenna on SOHO (Solar and Heliospheric Observatory) has been acting up for two weeks, and as of 3PM ET Thursday was not functioning properly. The problem appears to be with motor to position the antenna. If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years."

56 comments

  1. Uhm... by Wuffle · · Score: 0

    Why don't they just build a new one and launch it?

    1. Re:Uhm... by PD · · Score: 0

      Because to do that would take a lot of money. More money than you have ever seen in one place at one time. If you were to put that money into wheelbarrows, you'd say "holy shit that's a lot of wheelbarrows of money."

      Plus, it would take a while to build a new satellite, get time on a launcher somewhere, and launch it.

      --
      If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
  2. Just look in the records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we want to know what the weather was like 20 years ago just look in the record books.

    I doubt it could put us back more than a couple minutes. I can look outside and see it now.

  3. Space weather? by uncoveror · · Score: 0

    So there are atmospheric conditions in outer space, just like they said in the movie, Plan 9 From Outer Space. Maybe the aliens don't want us to know.

    --
    The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
  4. Um, yeah. by jpsst34 · · Score: 2, Funny

    If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years.

    You mean it will take us to a time when the forcasts aren't accurate, and they change at the last minute to relect what it's really going to do? Man, that would be terrible! Oh, wait...

    --
    How are you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?
    1. Re:Um, yeah. by capnjack41 · · Score: 1

      Never mind that last minute thing. My current weather report is "Rain". It's not raining here.

  5. Space weather...as in solar winds by thelexx · · Score: 4, Informative

    This has nothing to do with terrestrial weather prediction.

    FTA:

    "SOHO monitors ejections of solar energy and in many cases provides the only warning of magnetic storms that are about to hit Earth. Though usually benign, these storms can knock out satellites and disrupt satellite and radio communications. In at least one case a solar storm disabled a power grid."

    --
    "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
    1. Re:Space weather...as in solar winds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This has nothing to do with terrestrial weather prediction.

      Right, that's why the story says, "space weather forcasting". I don't get what's informative about stating the obvious, but since there don't seem to be any other informative posts, I guess they had to mod something.

  6. call the Navy by BigBir3d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They could just call those cadets to find out how to make a reliable antenna.

  7. Jammed? by BoBathan · · Score: 1, Funny

    Raspberry.

    There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry.

    Lone Starr!!!

    --Travis

    --
    EOF
  8. Ha! by NeB_Zero · · Score: 1

    In other news...

    Nasa is now being sued for violating an ancient patent issued to a rogue alien group for space travel.

  9. weather forcasting sucks by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 1, Funny

    If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years.

    Which, if that's anything like earth weather forcasting, won't mean very much at all.

  10. magnetic storm forcasting doesn't sucks by Orne · · Score: 4, Informative

    Fortunately for us, it is nothing like earth weather forecasting.

    Magnetic storms can be very damaging to AC electric systems, and power companies go into conservative operations when storms are predicted by NOAA. The change in the earth's magnetic field (as it interacts with the solar storm) induces slight currents in the metal in the earth's crust, which can have a negative impact on high voltage transformer equipment.

    1. Re:magnetic storm forcasting doesn't sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the FCC wants to allow Internet access over power lines?

      Glad that my life doesn't depend on it...

  11. Obvious question by crotherm · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So if the ability to detect magnetic storms is so important, why in the world is there a single point of failure? I am a little disappointed that the article did not mention about who built it, and what it would take to replace it. The article makes it seem like once SOHO is gone, we are SOL.

    After a little digging I found that SOHO was built in Europe. From the web site...

    The SOHO satellite was built in Europ by an industrial consortium lead by Matra, while the scientific instruments were provided by European and American scientists and funded by their national institutions.

    --
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
    1. Re:Obvious question by deglr6328 · · Score: 4, Informative

      SOHO has served us well. That said, it's only made of metal plastic and silicon parts and after being blasted by the solar wind for so many years, it's bound to fail eventually. SOHO's replacement is called the STEREO mission. It will actually be 2 separate spacecraft that view the sun simultaneously, in order to acquire STEREOscopic observations of the corona and coronal mass ejections. It was sometimes difficult for SOHO to tell what direction a CME was traveling in because it had only one point of view. STEREO launches in 2005. In the meantime TRACE can do a few of the things SOHO did and while at it, do some things SOHO could never do, like take these SPECTACULAR movies and images of the corona and photosphere at very high spatial and temporal resolution.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  12. SOHO's Antenna Jammed by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Funny

    "There's only one man in the universe who would DARE give me the raspberry..."

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:SOHO's Antenna Jammed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lone Starr? Give up. You're at least third. One offtopic, One redundant. The mods obviously didn't like the movie.

    2. Re:SOHO's Antenna Jammed by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Lone Starr? Give up. You're at least third. One offtopic, One redundant. The mods obviously didn't like the movie."

      Know what's funny? I read through the posts and didn't see any Spaceballs references. Didn't occur to me to set my threshold to -1. Heh.

      In my defense, though, mine was delivered a little better. There's a difference between quoting a movie and imagining people saying stuff like that in real life.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  13. Space weather forecast by Saganaga · · Score: 3, Funny

    Space Weather Forecast:

    Today: Very cold, calm.
    Tomorrow: See above

  14. If I only had a brain by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    SOHO: "Dammit, where is Dorthy with that oil can?!"

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  15. Barf-olomew! by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

    "Space.com has a story reporting that the communications antenna on SOHO (Solar and Heliospheric Observatory) has been acting up for two weeks, and as of 3PM ET Thursday was not functioning properly."

    The last thing they saw was the outline of a Winnebago...

    1. Re:Barf-olomew! by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "The last thing they saw was the outline of a Winnebago... "

      You fucking copycat. That's the last time I share my funny posts with ya. Heh.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Barf-olomew! by Doobian+Coedifier · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      RADAR TECH.: I'm having trouble with the radar, sir.

      HELMET: What's wrong with it?

      RADAR TECH.: I've lost the bleeps, I've the lost the sweeps, and I've lost the creeps.

      HELMET: The what?

      SANDURZ: The what?

      HELMET: And the what?

      RADAR TECH.: You know. The bleeps, the sweeps, and the creeps.

      HELMET: That's not all he's lost.

      RADAR TECH.: Sir. The radar, sir. It appears to be... jammed.

      HELMET: Jammed? Raspberry. There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry. Lone Starr!

  16. Where does the other 12 years come from? by mlush · · Score: 1
    If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years

    SOHO was launched on December 2, 1995. does the loss of SOHO somehow destroy the previous 12 years of solar observations ??

    1. Re:Where does the other 12 years come from? by GeoGreg · · Score: 1

      No, but without SOHO, the space forecasters will be left "in the dark". They won't have sufficient data with which to generate forecasts. It would be somewhat equivalent to having all the earth-orbiting weather satellites go down at once. Knowledge of current conditions would be severely limited.

    2. Re:Where does the other 12 years come from? by mlush · · Score: 1
      No, but without SOHO, the space forecasters will be left "in the dark".

      Was there a satellite up there before SOHO?

    3. Re:Where does the other 12 years come from? by GeoGreg · · Score: 1
      Was there a satellite up there before SOHO?

      Not one with SOHO's capabilities. It was a pretty major advance, IIRC.

  17. Static antennae? by Nynaeve · · Score: 1
    The high-gain antenna, used for downloading images and data, has been acting up for two weeks and has been stuck for nearly a week

    They shouldn't have believed the ads and switched from cable! It must've been that free installation offer :)

    The craft travels on an elliptical orbit and its antenna must be moved periodically to keep it pointing Earthward.

    I wonder if multiple, non-moving antennae would have been feasible?

  18. Time delay by Transcendent · · Score: 3, Funny

    If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years.

    Well i supposed it would be interesting to find out the forecast for this weeks weather in 1983, but I don't see how the antenna can do that =\

  19. Pure mechanical error by phorm · · Score: 1

    I can't see any much more reason something like this would fail except for crappy mechanical parts. There's no atmosphere, so no little dust particles to bother it, and also a lot less gravity to fight due to distance from earth.

    Seriously, space is probably the best place to put something if you want it to last. Aside from the possibility of floating junk/debris, there's a lot less outside influences than on earth.

    1. Re:Pure mechanical error by KewlPC · · Score: 1

      Actually, radiation can kill a spacecraft if it hasn't been properly hardened against it.

      On Earth, we're shielded from most of the cosmic and solar radiation. Not so in space.

      Even without radiation, friction will eventually get the best of any moving parts, with or without gravity and an atmosphere.

    2. Re:Pure mechanical error by Ashran · · Score: 1

      > There's no atmosphere, so no little dust particles to bother it,
      Any scientific data to back that up? AFAIK space is filled with dust (and stars)

      --

      Before you email me, remember: "There is no god!"
    3. Re:Pure mechanical error by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      5 atoms per cubic centimetre is hardly dusty.

      ref : Cutnell, John D. & Johnson, Kenneth W. Physics, 3rd Edition. New York: Wiley, 1995: 441. "In certain regions of outer space the temperature is about 3 K, and there are approximately 5 x 10E6 molecules per cubic meter."

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    4. Re:Pure mechanical error by ColaMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's *plenty* of reasons for it to fail!

      Can *you* design a hinged joint that is :
      - rigid enough to point constantly in one direction.
      - but flexible enough for a geared stepper motor to move?
      - able to survive large temperature extremes (at least a difference of 250 deg C on the outside of the craft)? (Remember not to use normal lubricants that will freeze solid or boil off in the vacuum of space.)
      - it costs a lot of cash to get something into orbit, so it has to be very,very light.

      Now mulitply that by however many hinged joints you need to deploy and accurately point your antenna. And that's just the hinged joints.
      You can also apply the same requirements to the stepper motors, drive electronics, feedback mechanisms and a whole lot of other stuff that likely makes up the antenna system.

      It's not that easy, and I'll bet they didn't have an unlimited budget to design it either. And the thing's been up there , pointing its antenna about the place for 10 years now.

      Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant, but casual comments like yours make me a little peeved ;-)

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    5. Re:Pure mechanical error by phorm · · Score: 1

      I was assuming that it would be using something more along the lines of a ball+socket joint with a rotator mechanism as opposed to multiple sockets.
      If the ball is held by 3 rotator wheels it should stay in place well enough, and the wheels could be turned to swivel an attached rod. Lubrication could be a problem, but in space there should be less need? Think of it as a reverse-mouse. Rather than the ball rotating the rollers, the rollers rotate the ball - which in turn has a rod (antenna) pointing out the bottom of the mouse (satellite).

    6. Re:Pure mechanical error by ColaMan · · Score: 3, Informative

      I found a link to the SOHO technical description - check out figure 5 (antenna assembly)

      Looks like an alt-azimuth assembly... and man, there looks like there's a lot of parts to go wrong in there!

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    7. Re:Pure mechanical error by Animats · · Score: 1

      There is wear and tear in orbital space. First, you get huge temperature variations as things go in and out of shadow, which creates mechanical stresses. Then you're constantly being pelted with space junk. Yes, most of it is microscopic, but the collision velocities are huge. Finally, X-rays are constantly punching atom-sized holes in your materials, which affects semiconductors first, and other materials over time.

    8. Re:Pure mechanical error by hndrcks · · Score: 1

      Ah, but when they are moving at high speed, those 5 atoms seriously pit any exposed surfaces. Not to mention the X-Rays / Gamma radiation. Space is in many ways more hostile to equipment than Earth's atmosphere.

      --
      Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
    9. Re:Pure mechanical error by harrkev · · Score: 1
      5 atoms per cubic centimetre is hardly dusty.


      That number is valid for interstellar space. The SOHO is very close to a planet with an atmosphere ... that must make some difference.
      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  20. Australian ham radio operators by dacarr · · Score: 1

    These guys seem to know how to make some *really* good antennas. Why not farm it out to one of these guys?

    --
    This sig no verb.
    1. Re:Australian ham radio operators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Got a URL? Or are you referring to Parkes?)

      That's all well and good, but last time I heard, they weren't making house calls. And, given how much Canberra likes to regulate the Internet, it's unclear if they'd be allowed to do something really interesting.

  21. In other news... by Type_O_Negative · · Score: 1

    ...an astronaut from the space station will be dispatched to the satellite to beat the antenna with a wrench until it starts working again.

  22. Cold? Calm? by barakn · · Score: 1
    Space weather as of June 20, 23:57:16 UT:

    Solar wind speed 1,944,000 km/hr
    Temperature 200,000 degrees K

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  23. Re:Cold? Calm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    degrees Kelvin? Nonesuch! Kelvins are the unit of measurement of the Kelvin scale. So it would just be 200,000 kelvins. (not capitalized)

    Your friendly neighborhood pedant. :)

  24. And how does forecasting help? by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    What do you do, move the Earth out of the way? Put your tinfoil hat on? Why bother forecasting the Sun's weather, not much you can do..

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:And how does forecasting help? by mlyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lots of things. You can have employees ready to bring services back up after any damage occurs, for one. Also, some satellites could be configured into safe modes that prevent damage-- a significant consideration when even small satellite launches usually cost in excess of $50M. Also, the solar wind is potentially hazardous to humans (especially outside the Van Allen belts. Forecasting the solar wind could improve the safety of future Mars and moon missions.

      Also, forecasting the Sun's weather will enable researchers to stage experiments on how the solar wind affects Earth's atmosphere to a greater extent.

    2. Re:And how does forecasting help? by harrkev · · Score: 1
      Forecasting the solar wind could improve the safety of future Mars and moon missions.

      I would call this a non-issue. We will be able to replace the satellite LONG before anybody does any manned missions to the moon or mars.
      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    3. Re:And how does forecasting help? by mlyle · · Score: 1

      Yah, but you need to know how to do the forecasting.. And for that, you need a history of observations and what the results were afterwards.

  25. take that thermometer out of your rectum by barakn · · Score: 1
    From Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary:

    degree n. ... 6. A unit division of a temperature scale.
    Kelvin adj. Of or relating to an absolute scale of temperature whose zero point is ~ -273.16Â C.

    So a degree Kelvin, a.k.a. a kelvin, is the unit division of the Kelvin temperature scale.

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  26. Amazing. by fruity1983 · · Score: 1

    "If full use of SOHO cannot be regained, it will set space weather forcasting back 20 years."

    Well, that's fine. There are more important things.

    Like Michael posting an article that set slashdot proof reading back to grade 3.

    --
    I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
  27. Some of the Facts on SOHO and Space Weather by davedancesco · · Score: 3, Informative

    (1) SOHO has far exceeded it's 2-3 year life expectancy by about 7 years. (2) It still transmits data - just significantly slower (3) The new NOAA GOES SXI (SOLAR X-ray imager) insturment is up and running (www.sec.noaa.gov),creating images every five minutes directly at the NOAA Space Environment Center. It is the official operational X-ray imager now. (4) Space is extremely hostile to satellites (high-energy particles, spacecraft charging, meteoroid impacts, radical temperature changes, etc.) Loss of spacecraft after several years is normal. (5) The economic impact to society has been estimated to be of the order of $10 - $100 million/yr (power grids, satellite drag, disrupted radio communications, GPS inaccuracies, etc.)... and growing every year with our increasingly complex technological systems (6) Recent research had shown about 30-40% of global climate change is due to solar variability There is a lot more to Space Weather than one may guess... -Dave, SpaceWx.com

  28. FTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Fuck The Article"?

  29. Yes, space weather forecasting is a good thing by chrisleonard · · Score: 1

    What do you do, move the Earth out of the way? Put your tinfoil hat on? Why bother forecasting the Sun's weather, not much you can do.

    From space.com:

    Strong storms can be deadly to spacewalking astronauts. The crew of the International Space Station, while inside, is generally not endangered, but they do have a special protective area they can go to in a severe storm.


    And, more importantly for most of us, from msnbc:

    Advance warning of impending storms allows satellite operators to reduce the risk of damage to some satellites by shutting down electronics. Engineers anticipate problems in an effort to recover damaged satellites before they are lost. Extra staff can be brought in. Agreements are made to shift signals to other satellites.