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Netflix Granted Patent on DVD Subscription Rentals
A few folks noted a new patent showing up
from netflix. They apparently now have a patent on their model of subscribing to rentals- where instead of being charged per disc, you are charged a monthly fee and can keep the rentals indefinitely without late fees. You can patent anything! Get on the bus!
So, I guess that means Netflix is crossed off my list. Does anyone have another DVD rental service to recommend? (assuming that this other company can survive despite the patent.)
I recently heard about GreenCine and they seem interesting. It's $21.95/month, but they have "over 10,000 titles, with an accent on indie, art house, classics, foreign, documentary, anime and Asian cinema."
I sought a second opinion and found this extensive review of DVD rental services at Stark Raving Normal. The guy seemed to like them: "GreenCine is my current favorite DVD rental service. The customer service people have been great, they have the best selection of anime that I have seen from a DVD rental place, lots of cult movies, sci-fi, horror, indie films, foreign cinema, and even a cool little online community of San Francisco movie geeks."
I don't work for GreenCine, but they're probably towards the top of my list at the moment. And, it doesn't hurt either that some of their profits go to film arts organizations.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Here's some more info: Netflix Issued Patent on Subscription Rental Service and complete copy of the patent (PDF). You can also search for patent # 6584450 on the US Patent office website.
Umm, actually he never said that
Technoli
In New York City a company called "Fetch-a-flick" allows you to order DVDs online. They deliver within an hour, you keep the movie for 3-5 days, put it in the supplied envelope and drop it in a mailbox (or leave it with your doorman). All for 4 bucks each. I'd love to do business with netflix but the last thing I need is another monthly charge, and fetchaflick quenches the impulse renting urge. If you live in Manhattan check 'em out - I highly recommend them. (Caveat: their delivery area isn't huge) Fetchaflick.
No, I don't work for them, I'm just really happy with their services.
The rationale behind patents is that creators need a reason to create, and if anyone can steal their idea once they've created it, they probably won't bother.
This logic is flawed as applied to business process patents, as this one is. Business processes will always be created because the business has an inherent motivation, increased profit, and does not need the increased motive of monopoly protect to jump-start their creation.
This issue was highlighted in Larry Lessig's 'The Future of Ideas' on a section regarding Amazon's One-click patent, and Steve Job's comments that they would have developed the technology in any event, even if it wouldn't have been patentable.
The idea that businesses need any other motivation than the desire to keep themselves afloat is hogwash, but it's what the entire recent history of the US Patent process is based on.
-R
If you're an American, read your Constitution--the justification is written into it. If you're not, well, quick start a Netflix-style business before the EU patent is granted.
You can't patent business methods in the EU AFAIK.
So that's why there's Wanted List
-dk
No, the price tag was actually invented by members of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers.) Quaker businessmen disapproved of negotiated pricing, which they saw as in some ways akin to gambling. The price ticket was invented to make a statement about honest business practices. And they would not have patented it, not only because it would be contrary to their beliefs but because, in Europe and the UK, you cannot patent a business method.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Netflix is incorporated in Delaware and the main corporate offices are in Los Gatos, California. They may well have distribution centers in Utah, as they do in many other states, but they are not "based" in Utah.
I suspect any censorship of titles done by Netflix is more a result of states such as Alabama prosecuting some companies for sending to the state materials that do not meet with their community standards. There was an adult-oriented satellite service that was shut down because Alabama sued them for broadcasting what the state deemed obscene material into the state -- regardless of the fact that the transmission was encrypted so only those that paid for the service could view it.
I believe that it's important to hear all sides to any issue, so here are two Ogg Vorbis encoded recordings of Richard M. Stallman speaking about software patents and a percieved danger that they pose to software development. I know that this story isn't specifically about software patents, but you may find his ideas informative and extensible. (Disclaimer: Verbatim copying and distribution of the entire speech recording are permitted provided this notice is preserved.)
i dgeuni-england2002.ogg Transcript t s-lse2002.ogg
http://audio-video.gnu.org/audio/rms-speech-cambr
http://audio-video.gnu.org/audio/rms-speech-paten
Here is a transcript of a non-recorded speech given by RMS in India also on the issue of software patents.
I hope some of you find these links useful. If anyone knows of any good links taking differing position on the issue of patent law, etc... than I would definitly encourage you to post those.
Most of the discussion and argument about this patent has been focused on the idea that subscription services are not new. If you'll read the patent text, or even just the abstract, you'll see that the essence of the patent deals with how you select movies to rent and the fact that this process is separate from the rental process itself. If you've used Netflix, you know what they are talking about. You select movies and add them to your rental list. When you turn in a movie, they automatically send you the next movie from your list. This differs from most other rental schemes in which you select the next item to rent at the time you are renting it, and really is one of the best features of using Netflix. Maybe some other subscription-based rental services do this, but from what I've read in this thread, I haven't seen anyone point out any that do (in particular, any such services that predate Netflix).
Firstly, I am located in Little Rock and the nearest Netflix distribution center was in Houston. Walmart has a distribution center about 4 hours away in Bentonville. Walmart is also the master of distribution and has facilities all over the world. I was finding that even though I would receive a DVD from Netflix and return it the next day, I was only receiving about 3-4 movies a week at most due to shipping delays. I am hoping to improve on that by subscribing to Walmart's service.
Secondly, there is a minimal price difference. For approximately $2.00 a month I could keep out a 4th DVD on loan over the price of a 3 disc Netflix account. Assuming that I will be able to receive them quicker, I should get 5-6 a week from Walmart. So instead of getting 12-15 a month from Netflix, I should get 20-25 a month from Walmart for only $2.00 a month more. Of course, my turn-around time on these must be swift to achieve this goal. In comparing the delivery, Walmart uses the exact same envelopes to mail as Netflix. Where Netflix uses a coated paper sleeve, Walmart is using a clear plastic sleeve. The queue on your account screen is nearly identical and in fact uses the same terms for how long a wait you'll have to get that hot new DVD (now, short wait, long wait). Movie selection is not as good on Walmart's site. For instance I was looking for the movies Alien, Aliens and Aliens3. These are nowhere to be found on Walmart's site. All you get is some cheapo alien movies from their bargain bin.
In reality, the sites, delivery methods, and rental agreements are nearly identical. I believe that Walmart has a problem. And for them to be quoted as saying they were unaware of any patent pending from Netflix, well it is either stupidity on their part not to have checked it out or a case of who cares we will bury them in red tape if they sue.
Really this is not a case of someone coming out of the woodwork like the Ebay case, but rather a first to market, successful firm patenting their business model. Nothing wrong with that and Walmart is probably scrambling in Bentonville trying to figure out what they are going to do.
Odd. Take a look at some sculptures from the Moche civilization, or perhaps some Tantric friezes. Fear not though, the majority of penises in american art museums are still on Baby Jesus.