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Renaissance Potters Were Nanotechnologists
Roland Piquepaille writes "In this article, Nature says that "tiny metal particles give 15th century Italian ceramics lustre." Nature adds that iridescent glazes -- changing colour when viewed from different perspectives -- were achieved by using "particles of copper and silver of between 5 and 100 billionths of a metre across." And the story becomes even more interesting. Nanotechnology meets alchemy! "The ability to change colour was regarded as an alchemical property, making iridescence magic too." Read this summary for more details. And for more information, you can read the abstract of this research paper, "Copper in glazes of Renaissance luster pottery: Nanoparticles, ions, and local environment," published by the Journal of Applied Physics."
"The ability to change colour was regarded as an alchemical property, making iridescence magic too."
Yep, I can attest to that. Just take a look at all of the magical leftovers in my refrigerator.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
...the first caveman to figure out how to throw a spear an "Aerospace Engineer?" :)
Nopw, just finely ground up stufff. Sheesh! FP
That's not really nanotech. They weren't using the nanomaterials directly, or intentionally. The particles just happened to be the right size.
-- Bill "Houdini" Weiss
... In other news, we're all 'Nanotechnologists'!
Seriously; we all use nanoproperties of materials to achieve macro results; just this morning I used nanotechnology in the form of nano-molecular-structure surface tension in my coffee, preventing spillage. I think this is very interesting but in the interests of linguistic integrity, having words actually *mean* something through exclusion, I question the spin that 'Renaissance Potters Were Nanotechnologists'; that implies a level of conceptual or technological understanding of nanophenomena which simply wasn't there.
Were Renaissance Potters clever? Yes. Were they 'Nanotechnologists'? No.
It doesn't take too much technology knowhow to grind something up into very fine bits.
-- Samir Gupta, Ph. D. Head, New Technology Research Group, Nintendo Co. Ltd., Kyoto, Japan.
Just goes to show how many "revolutionary" things we've come up with were adaptations or exact duplicates of something that already happened naturally. These alchemists had no idea that there were nanoscopic particles whose physics lead to the change in color, yet it happened, and we are only NOW finally realizing why and how it happened.
Next they'll be saying the Decopauge is the 1970s technology revival of those potters from way back when.
This article is a biiiiiiig stretch; sounds like someone read an article about nano-tech somewhere and decided that just because they found some dust someplace it's related....geesh.
Some currency now has a "hologram" printed on it which appears to use the same principle.
For example, some of the newer Canadian bills have a hologram in the corner that was introduced to foil counterfeiters. My understanding is that these were created by crushing up the stuff used to make laser-cut holographic images and applying it to the paper as a printing process.
This process sounds similar to the one described in the article.
-- clvrmnky
I haven't RTFA, so I don't know if it was the author or the submitter who attached this trendy term to a story about ceramic glazes. But unless the potters in question were building microscopic robots, they weren't "nanotechnologists" in the generally understood sense of the word.
People have been using finely ground substances of one sort or another at least since the mortar and pestle were invented.
Nothing like leaving a bowl of fruit on your counter for 5 weeks until it blows the lid off after making some obnoxious gasses.
I wouldn't have known the color if it were not for that!
There is nothing new in the fact that even ancient processes can affect material on a very small scale (since they got a Nature paper, I am sure the particulars of this case are very intriguing).
The repeated beating of metal causes imperfections in the crystal structures which makes it harder. Japanese sword smiths knew what they were doing (or rather, did not know what they were doing) when they in a ritualistic manner repeadetely beat the metal, put it underground for a number of years, etc, etc.
Tor
...so what you're telling me is that the riced-out green iridescent Honda down the street is driven by a nanotechnologist?
Whoa.
...
I love those intresting articles that have no effect on my life.
the same technique is used today when creating similar materials.
They seem to have used silver and copper salts and a mix of other things that turned the salts into metal at 600 degrees.
Sensational discovery:
Prehistoric Particle Physics Experiment Discovered!!
Archeologiest find great hint for colliding experiments utilizing Atoms of Si,C and O in a compound material.
Only because incas used piss to etch a copper gold compound doesnt mean they knew about electron gases in metals or electronegativity.
Same goes here....
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Stained glass windows use a similar kind of nanoparticle emulsion concept to get their different colors (also based on particle size). We've known all of this for quite a while; it's nothing new.
... except just a hair smaller...
Should any of this surprise anyone? Mankind has been interested in small things forever... take my wife...
This space for rent.
I think the article's title is a bad (aka incorrect) attempt to make the story more relevant... buzzword compliant. It also has very little to do with the common understanding of the meaning of the word nanotechnology. But the title probably got it more attention than it would have otherwise received, but then again so did the boy who cried wolf.
I suppose we still do the same thing current day - people are ever searching for perpetual motion machines and researching anti-gravity. Every time someone puts together a device the layman can't figure out, funding pours in and our modern alchemists continue employment in various potentially unsolvable problems.
Myself, I prefer Feymann's approach: considering how likely you are to solve a problem as well as how valuable the solution is (not to mention how many others could solve the problem).
The only thing more dangerous than a file named -rf is renaming it -rf\ /
I produce some highly-engineered ear wax.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Good way to pad a resume.
Let's see
Bio-technologist - pet goldfish
Forensic expert - dead goldfish
Multitasker - can walk and chew gum concurrentyly
Scholar - knows what concurrentyly means
Web-user - can't spell
If you subscribe to the new marketing usage of the word "nanotechnology" which is used to include such material science feats as those Eddie Bauer khakis that have nano-sized particles to help make them water proof, then yes, you might as well say these potters are nanotechnologists too.
Science: The original open source.
I have seen many a Honda Civic with a paint job that changes color as you walk around it.
Supposedly that type of paint is the most exspensive kind. Has many small metal flakes of the different colors in there.
All I know is that I can't imagine wanting that on a car, but I have seen so many with it.
Although I suppose that maybe, much like the people of lore in this article, these fellows think the changing colors makes the car magic, and therefore able to actually be fast.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
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I don't have to look, i can smell them from here.
THROUGH TIME!
Except that a patent's life is only 20 years. If Bezos had lived then at least he wouldn't be in our hair now and all of his patents would have expired.
Regarding the colloidal metals, which are nanoscale, referred to in this article, the Renaissance potters may have just been practicing, or re-learning, a skill that the Romans had used since at least the 1st century AD. There are several examples of ornamental dishes (goblets, plates, etc.) where the Romans applied colloidal gold or other metals to the surfaces to get the right appearance. They didn't know what it was they were making, they just knew how to make it. So while they were manipulating nanoscale particles to fabricate into a decorative coating - is it nanotechnology by today's definition? No, its not. However, it is impressive that such things have been around as long as they have, but we're just now beginning to understand what has been around for centuries.
I suspect when our descendents 1000 years from now look back, they'll say "look: Those 20th century yahoos were practicing picotechnology and they didn't even know it"
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
If you wanted to avoid the overrated mod you shouldn't have posted a lame joke with the Karma Bonus. That checkbox exists for a reason, you know.
I didn't know Potter was that good with this stuff. Afterall, Snape nearly flunks him out of Potions every term.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Forget the cave man, go back even further, to the first monkey ever to huck a loaf.
Actually, McCarthy's book covered this very fact. They had no idea what they were doing at the time but laid the ground work centuries later for quantum dots.
I swear by MacOS X. Although I use to swear *at* MacOS 9...
Sorry, but that's not "nanotechnology". Nanotechnology mean atomically precise, self-assembling, nano-scale machines.
I suppose given the utter failure of nanotechnology to achieve anything to date, it's not surprising that people are retreating on their claims. Even the staunchest proponents are weakening the requirement for self-assembly, but to call iridescent paints "nanotechnology" is going too far for even the weakest definition.
Surely they meant Harry Potter is a nanotechnologist...
I so agree with your position!
"Ancient nanotechnoligsts" is condescention. It is analogous to "noble savage".
Q: Why is it necessary to shoehorn our understanding of an alien culture (alien in time or viewpoint) into the context of our "culture" of the moment?
A: The popular press--by necessity of appeal and accessibity to the general populace--must provide glib explanations of fact in terms of trendy misunderstings.
This is the sacrifice of critical thought on the altar of market share.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
All those stench molecules! Wow! Im a nanotech engineer!
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
I mean, I atmospherically deployed bioactive nanotechnology.
;-P
Buzzword alert!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It is well known that a remarkable sound comes from a stravarious violin. It is not clear why the sound is so remarkable as many folks have tired to reproduce the violin exactly.
I have heard that crushed gems were used in the varnish of those antique violins and people think that this might be why the sound is unique.
This was 'nano' technology of a different kind.
When I think of nanotechnology I think of a deliberate placement of atoms in a specific way.
Cut the BS. This is news for nerds.
<eom/>
Wouldn't that be an amazing demonstration of nanotechnology? One would think...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Seriously, can we not declare Slashdot of all places a pseudosciencebuzzword-free zone?!
Magic and Alchemy continue to be greatly misunderstood by the masses.
From the layman's perspective, magic may be defined as:
Magic - That which has no logical explanation, but yet was manifested. Beyond reality and defying all explanation - An illusion. A miraculous act. Trickery!
Such meanings are complete and utter nonsense. There is nothing that is, was or will be that has no explanation. Rather, it is humans who do not (yet) understand the underlying workings of seemingly magical acts that define magic the unknown manifested.
The truth my friends is that there is no magic in magic, every miracle is a natural act and can be repeated over and over again given the same tools, power and overall circumstances (just as any scientific experiment). To state something can be created out of nothing is ludicrous! Our dear "Magi" knew this millenea before our modern scientists. It is only in our ignorance of reality that we consider the manifestation of the unknown to be a work of magic. Do not look up to scientists to provide you with an explanation of magical acts, for they are admittedly discoverers & explorers of reality and do not yet understand it completely - nor shall they ever with mere logic and knowledge alone. They are as children in an endless Universe, observing the physical but neglecting the 2 other major planes of existence.
Back in the 1500's the base alchemical process of adding the type of coloring to a vase as was described in the article might have been looked upon as a magical act because the vast majority of people did not understand how such feat might be possible. Today it is easily understood and we know the process is completely natural and not some "magical" act. The same can be said today for what some of us perceive magical/(misunderstood) acts, such as levitation, energy healing, teleportation, clairvoyance (although some shows on TV are making this seem more natural), etc.
Magic, in its true sense, has nothing to do with stage magic, or illusions, or even the manifestation of seemingly amazing powers (which once again are actually completely natural). Magic is an art reserved for the initiated in the holy mysteries, for those who's true goal is the transmutation of the operator (oneself), to find his/her divine essence, and eventually merge with the ALL and thus become omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent and exiting the cycle of Maya (re-incarnation). The highest of magicians strive to learn and adhere to the Universal Laws. Those that have always been, are and shall always be. For they know nothing can exist that is outside these Universal Laws... laws which even the most brilliant of scientists are still struggling to learn.. as children learn to speak and walk.
Alchemy is the tool of such magicians in which they may transmute the base metals (or their basic gross/low vibrational selves of little spiritual worth) into gold (spiritual gold - the purest of forms, as bright as the brightest sun and of a vibrational level worthy of merging with the ALL/God,etc!). But yes, it is true many a self-proclaimed alchemists, also occupied themselves with converting actual physical metals into physical gold, though that really was never the main point at all of the serious magicians, but that has remained the layman's definition ever since. The alchemist who strives for physical gold, misses that which is of highest value of all... the conversion of himself into spiritual gold.
Just my $2.99 cents worth,
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
Considering something to be "alchemic" implied it to be man-made, not magical; magic came from god(s).
O, no, I didn't know, I just got that bonus today apparently. Thanks for the info.
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Better yet, express it in fractions of a light year! That way you can call them astrophysicists as well!
Yes it is. Nanotech is the ability to control feature size on a nanometer level, generally considered to be smaller than 200nm. They had the ability to do that, whether they knew it or not, as the iridescent patterns depend on the regular ordering of features around that size. Had they not had the ability, they would have ended up with some crappy glaze that didn't have this effect.
On a different topic - hey, look, nanotech for hundreds of years and no apocalypse as predicted by screwball science fiction! Amazing!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Looking at this news-bit, I could not help be reminded of the man who lost the last presidential election, who campaigned making the ludiscrous claim that he invented the Internet.
I am dissapointed that the Nature article made no mention of the Islamic origins of lustreware. The process of lustre glazing predates the referenced Umbrian work by centuries.
Muslim potters invented the lustre process, which eventually worked its way into Spanish pottery in via the Moors. Only then did the process find its way to the Italian potteries of Umbria.
A very short google search turned up these interesting links:
Early Muslim Wares at artsofislam.org
11th century Egyptian lustre plate
Someone should give dictionaries to college students.
Stone him to death with nano-sized pebbles.
but the actual title of the article is
And there's no reference to nanotechnologists in the abstract, so this seems more the submitter being poetic. Welcome to
Anyway, since Rennaissance artisans apparently viewed use of nanotechnology as magic, they would be more properly described as nanomagicians, which, incidentally, would make a good scifi title. (hint, hint
/
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistiguishable from magic. -Arthur C. Clarke
There is a HUGE difference between "nanotechnology" and "nanoscale". Some modern corporations started using the term interchangeably because nanotech sounded cooler. Please don't follow their example.
I'm going to have to have to have you change the name of the article, you see, "Potter" is part of a registered trademark of GreedyBitch Inc. this article might be picked up by the mass media and kids would read it, thinking that it is the latest Harry Potter installment.
If the name isn't changed quickly, we will have no other option but to sue for 100 BILLION DOLLARS! </dr. evil>
Thank You for your co-operation
JK Rowling
GreedyBitch Inc.
I'd like to know how being criticle of an article makes the post a troll. It's a valid point, just a cynicle one.
I just read the headline and thought these Nanotechnologists were related to Harry Potter. Woulda' made fine sixth edition tho: "Harry meets nanotechnologist Potter from renaissance"....
Many of the points being raised here about "finely ground powder" and so on are answered in the text of the article. Having just rtfa (damn, it's good to be at an institution that subscribes to J. Appl. Phys.), let me summarize.
The metal particles are formed from metal salts applied to the pottery surface. On firing in a reducing kiln, the salts melt and metal particles of nanoscopic size form. It is the precise size range that is responsible for the glaze optical properties. They then go on to describe the precise techniques used to characterise the result, including X-ray spectroscopy and electron microscopy. With these techniques, they are able to determine the composition, size, and depth into the glaze of the particles. Much tedious data ensues (I'm an organic chemist, not a physicist).
In the introduction section, the authors specifically mention the development of luster glazes in 9th century Mesoptamia and the diffusion of the technology through the Mediterranean basin following the spread of Islamic culture and transfer from Spain to Italy.
I hope this clears things up.
I hate your guts and the rest fo the Trollkore crew.
What is this? You should visit a skool or some other educational establishment before writing a reply to a post on Slashdot. Seek edification, for a punch from someone with an intellect as low as yours would merely ricochet off in to the face of a young child. Brain damage ensues; of this you can be sure.
Was their nanotechnology the thing that really saved the little Potter child? Now the rumors will be flying.
There are no surfaces on a spear that produce significant lift
Perhaps nothing on a spear, but something on a Spears?
Will I retire or break 10K?
It's true. Any sufficiently advanced technology really IS indistinguishable from magic!
Okay, maybe I'm being just a little sarcastic. My point is, just because the Renaissance potters didn't know how the feat was accomplished makes it no less skillful. We're just now coming to the technological point where we can analyze some of these achievements - like the ceramic glaze - and figure out how to replicate them.
Our grandcestors would have found it "magical" indeed, after they finished chewing us out for losing the recipes in the first place.
Doing my level best to piss off the religious right wing...
I thought "Were-Nanotechnologists" were people who turned into researchers by the light of a full moon.
That is the marketing line of crap used to capitalize on the coolness of the idea of microscopic robots.
"Nanotechnology" was coined to apply to microscopic robots. Nobody said it and meant anything else until a marketing department decided it would make a great ad.
Obviously, the person delivering this information to an eagerly awaiting (enemy?) tribe would be some sort of proto-Ari Fleischer wherefore only haphazard approximations to the truth should be expected.
The liver is evil and must be punished.