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Leave Outer Space to the Millionaires

tcd004 writes "Martin Rees, Britain's Astronomer Royal has an interesting article in Foreign Policy arguing that the future of manned space travel should be left to wealthy adventurers. He points to the fact that modern state-funded space disasters become national traumas, and argues that that gung-ho millionaires are more free to take risks because they 'don't represent a nation; [they] represent humanity.'"

18 of 487 comments (clear)

  1. Uh-huh. by Tidal+Flame · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's a bit counterproductive - if the only people who're going to be travelling into space are wealthy millionaires, we'd be much slower in space-travel development than we are at current. Not that it's all that important, but.

    1. Re:Uh-huh. by Aadain2001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess you haven't watched NASA for the past 30 years. We still use the same Shuttles. We have seen MANY great new spacecraft designs, but they were never explored because of all the buracracy invloved. There was an article in the latest Wired that talked about this. These millionars are building reusable space craft that are cheap and effective and actually made with modern ideas. They will most likely be the ones to bring us, the average citizen, into space. Let them do the research, because in the end they will want to turn around and sell it on the open market, creating practicle space travel.

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    2. Re:Uh-huh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you realize how horribly complicated the space shuttle is? It is not economically feasible to redesign a shuttle every 10 years, let alone 20-30. And these millionaires who are building reusable spacecraft are also not under the umbrella of the US government, which requires some form of safety/redundancy/reliability. Don't automatically assume that because John Carmack does something, that it is the right idea. Hundreds of astronauts have left and returned from earth safely, and thousands of scientific experiments have been completed in space, so please hold off on the negative remarks towards NASA. Yeah, great new spacecraft designs have come and gone, and you know what... your taxes are lower because they have come and gone. A new shuttle is on the way, but I don't think it is coming too late. No I don't work for NASA, but I do work for a major Defence contractor who knows that planes/spacecraft don't happen overnight.

    3. Re:Uh-huh. by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't get to be a millionaire by pissing away your time in meetings and buying $16000 toilet seats.

      No, you get to be a millionaire by SELLING the $16000 toilet seats.

      --
      "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    4. Re:Uh-huh. by phutureboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you realize how horribly complicated the space shuttle is? It is not economically feasible to redesign a shuttle every 10 years, let alone 20-30

      Do you realize how horribly complicated computers are? Less than 30 years ago it was almost incomprehensible that the things would someday become a household item. The same could have been said of automobiles at one point. Never underestimate the power of commoditization.

      And these millionaires who are building reusable spacecraft are also not under the umbrella of the US government, which requires some form of safety/redundancy/reliability

      And private industry *doesn't* require safety/redundancy/reliability?

    5. Re:Uh-huh. by Aadain2001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do realize how complicated the shuttle is. I also know that they are required to take the entire thing apart after it returns from space, requalify each piece, and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. This makes it MORE expensive than just building a new one from scratch! The shuttle is about as reusable as a car that has to be rebuilt every night.
      NASA did do good work, 30 years ago, but they haven't done much of anything since. When NASA was founded in the 1960's (could be wrong, could have been in the 50's, so don't hold me to this), they went from capsule style launching to putting a man on the moon to shuttle launching in about 20 years. But since that time, they haven't done anything new. Sure, there have been plans to goto Mars, or build a habitat on the moon. But none of these projects were explored. So, instead of spending their budget on pushing further into space, maybe even grabing an asteroid for mining, they decided to stay at home, doing nothing more than launching expensive shuttles to perform some experiments. My tax dollars are higher because NASA has refused to scrap the shuttle. If they had actually spent the time to test/build some of these new designs, we would have much cheaper space flight.

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    6. Re:Uh-huh. by cje · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do realize how complicated the shuttle is. I also know that they are required to take the entire thing apart after it returns from space, requalify each piece, and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up.

      This is simply untrue. I have no idea where you think you heard this from, but the type of maintenance that you describe only happens when the engineers deem it necessary (usually every 8 to 10 flights.) They do not "rebuild the entire thing" every time a shuttle returns from space, and it is extraordinarily dishonest of you to propagate this.

      NASA did do good work, 30 years ago, but they haven't done much of anything since.

      Correct. Other than the Shuttle program itself (which is aging but still a marvel of human engineering) and all of the science that has resulted from it, the Voyager missions to explore the outer solar system, the Viking and Pathfinder missions to Mars (the latter of which involved JPL actually driving a rover around on the surface of the planet) and the resulting hundredfold increase in mankind's knowledge of Mars, the Galileo mission that spent years studying and providing unprecedented amounts of information on the Jovian (that's Jupiter) system, the Cassini mission that will do the same in the Saturnian system, the Deep Space 1 mission that involved an actual rendezvous with comet Borrelly, numerous Earth science projects that enable us to map this planet, monitor resources, respond to disasters, and deal with everything from famine to forest fires, the International Space Station, and the Chandra X-ray Observatory. Oh, and then there's that Hubble thing, which has expanded mankind's knowledge of the universe more than any other instrument in history. And I'm sure I'm forgetting several prominent projects (sorry, fellas.)

      Other than that, yeah, NASA's been pretty much inert.

      My tax dollars are higher because NASA has refused to scrap the shuttle.

      Oh, for God's sake. NASA's budget is approximately one quarter of one percent of the entire federal outlay. If you pay (for example) $400 in federal taxes for each paycheck, less than a dollar goes to NASA. (And if you get paid every two weeks, this means that you pay about $25/year to NASA.) Even at the height of the Apollo program in the late 1960s, NASA's budget was only slightly over 4 percent of the national budget as a whole. If you want to complain about "your tax dollars", start pointing your fingers at certain Senators who order aircraft carriers that the military doesn't even want just so that a company in their Congressional district can land a lucrative contract.

      If we could cut all of the self-serving pork out of the federal budget, we'd have enough money to fund ten NASAs.

      --
      We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
  2. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Millionaires represent humanity?

  3. Interesting, but... by mgcsinc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They also represent a tiny slice of the pie - hardly all of humanity in the eyes of many of the underprivileged. At least being represented by one's country allows some degree of personal fulfillment... watching someone of higher privilege do the same by virtue of their privilege alienates; watching someone who has been trained with your tax dollars, in equipment which your economic output has contributed to in some way, someone who represents what you feel you represent, that inspires and awes.

  4. What? by mikeophile · · Score: 5, Insightful
    gung-ho millionaires are more free to take risks because they 'don't represent a nation; [they] represent humanity.'
    Pretty sad world when nations aren't considered to represent humanity.
  5. Re:Space should be left to corperations by Eric(b0mb)Dennis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, I agree that it is a great motivator for innovation, but sometimes it seems it doens't always lead innovation in the right direction. It's great from the consumer standpoint, because that's who they're trying to please.. but when you start to look at humanity as a whole, it seems the profit motivation leads to things which are counter-productive.... Just my 2 cents, anyways.

    --
    Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
  6. On NASA, and where we're going next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do at the least believe contests like the X-Prize are the real future of aeronautics. They allot a prize, and say 'Make something that does 'X'', and many groups from incredibly different backgrounds and ideals come up with technology that could and will do the job.

    I saw today some of NASA's plans for life beyond the Shuttle. In particular, their 'Space Plane', which looks, feels, and does the exact same thing the Shuttle does. Their 'next craft' may well have a mission 'well beyond Earth's orbit'.

    Whoopie doo! What will that be, 2030? It makes me sick that NASA is willing to mortgage the future of space for 30 years because they're not daring enough to do something big right now. I'll be 65 in 2030. People don't live that long.

    People die in space.

    Craft are lost in space.

    Space is a dangerous place.

    If the most NASA believes space is good for is interesting ways to battle cancer using technology from the ISS, we do not have a real leader behind us in the space race.

    Did I say 'space race'? There still is one, you know. Sooner or later, the Chinese will shoot a capsule to the moon, because they have a real interest in going there - and then America will sit back and suddenly realize that they have NOTHING that can do what the Chinese had just done. We'd have to create the Apollo program from scratch. SCRATCH.

    The article makes a good point, that individuals can take more risk than a government institution. Government institutions value job security and predictability fostered by high budgets...not pure results. This is why the conclusions of the shuttle inquiry thus far have said 'That was bad. Well, back to the shuttles!' without real consideration of alternatives.

    I wave my flag to the X-Prize and prizes like it that will come after. A random person will, someday soon, reinvent the Mercury program with a small group of people that NO government actually sanctions, and it is only then that it will be realized where the real advancements are being made.

  7. Riches don't necesarily alienate.... by reverendG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The rich and famous of a society that explore, take chances, and are inexplicably daring are often idolized by the poor and less fortunate. Look at Lindbergh. There are loads of examples.

    --

    Why should I argue rationally with someone being irrational? I'll just mock them instead.
  8. History of Exploration by stoolpigeon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Space exploration will develop along the same lines that exploration grew in the past. The technical challenges are new but the social challenges are tried and true.

    Nations will send out explorers for God, Glory and Gold (or the modern version- you come up with some nifty alliteration).

    Corporations will drive exploration as the profit is seen.

    Individuals will push into space as they are able because we are wired that way. Of course right now and for a while that is going to be limited to those with the resources at hand to make the trips possible.

    This is not new- it has been going on for quite a while and I am obviously not the first to notice this.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
  9. Either/or by smallpaul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is this presented as either sending publically funded astronauts OR sending privately funded millionaires. Let them both go. Just as the individuals can compete, the two development models can compete.

  10. Re:Space should be left to corperations by Moofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Monsanto's terminator gene.
    Poorly designed, high-profit-margin SUVs.
    Pollution (since being responsible with industrial waste costs money).

    And, of course, Microsoft's monopoly. Or any monopoly.

    That's just four off the top of my head.

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  11. Re:That is... by forii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They represent the 0.000001% of humanity who care to fritter away obscene amounts of money on vanity projects, rather than, say, feeding the starving.

    I feel obligated to point out that people starving is usually not a matter of money, but a matter of politics. Take Zimbabwe, for instance, where the US now sends half a million tons of food aid, when the country used to be a net food exporter. Why? Because President Mugabe seized the most productive farms in the country because they were owned by whites. And now those farms lie fallow and the people starve.

    Political causes are at the root of famines in Ethiopia, China's "Great Leap Forward" (The worst famine in recorded history), and even the Great Irish Potato famine, where there was actually enough food even after the potato crop failed, but the other crops were taken to port under military guard and exported to other countries.

    Throwing more money at the famine problem is not likely to solve it, despite what Sally Struthers et. al. would like to have you think.

  12. Regressive Progress by Michael.Forman · · Score: 4, Insightful


    This story is disturbing on so many levels.

    The first is spending wealth and resources on an endeavour with no contribution to mankind other than giving us the satisfaction that yet another person has been in space. Wealth does not correlate strongly with the skills necessary to perform meaningful science in space.

    Even more disturbing is, that the separation between the rich and poor in our society is so great that individuals are on the threshold of being able to afford space flight, while at the same time the real hourly wage of the average American worker fell 14% since 1973. The richest Americans are now able to do for leisure, what once only an entire nation could afford!

    (Here's hoping that my moderator is not a billionaire who dreams of space flight). ;P

    Michael.

    --
    Linux : Mac :: VW : Mercedes