Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Speakeasy Introduces Broadband WiFi Sharing Plan

Posted by timothy on from the distributed-profit-center dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Today, speakeasy (the greatest ISP ever) sent out a letter from the CEO introducing their NetShare Wi-Fi plan. It lets you share your broadband with your neighbors, with Speakeasy handling the billing and splitting the fee 50/50. More ISPs should be like this!"

82 of 300 comments (clear)

  1. I get WiFi now for free by ObviousGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    My neighbors pay 100%

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:I get WiFi now for free by womby · · Score: 5, Funny

      having a neighbour with wifi was extreemly helpful when I had to phone the cableisp to bitch about there service being down

      have you check your cables?
      yes I have also check the cables of the guy next door

      what do you mean?
      his cablemodem is offline too

      oh!

      --
      **** lying is wrong even for sleeping dogs
    2. Re:I get WiFi now for free by phyxeld · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I got a new neighbor who had the bright idea to ask me about running cat5 to my house, so we could share dsl costs. I told him that, since he only had a laptop, he should get a wireless card instead, and I'd get him online.

      Now he pays a share of the bill, in exchange for connecting to my AP. If he knew anything about wireless networks, and/or knew that I was already intentionally running an open AP before he moved in, he might not be so willing to pay for an equal share of the line... But he doesn't! =)

      I wonder if running a NetShare AP rules out running a wide-open free AP. Neighbors won't want to pay if they can get it for free, right? I think my setup now, with free access for anyone who knows what free access is, and payment from those who don't, works well for the time being. Nobody better educate my neighbor, though, or I might have to install NoCatAuth or something.

      --
      __
      Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
    3. Re:I get WiFi now for free by DMDx86 · · Score: 3, Funny

      well.. my neighbor across the street has DSL, I have cable. Its REALLY handy when Crime Warner breaks.. except that I have to assemble my 24db dish to get a signal and point it at his house.

    4. Re:I get WiFi now for free by bfields · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I wonder if running a NetShare AP rules out running a wide-open free AP.

      From their FAQ:

      I don't use WiFi but still want to share my connection (Ethernet, carrier pigeons, free-space optics, whatever). What's your policy?

      Speakeasy believes that shared wireless networks are in keeping with our core values of disseminating knowledge, access to information and fostering community, provided this usage does not have an adverse impact on the services of other customers, does not involve any illegal activity and is not otherwise in violation of any aspect of our existing Terms Of Service. Please remember that the Speakeasy account-holder is responsible for all activity originating from their DSL line, even if it is the result of other users on a shared wireless connection.

      You may use either wired or wireless networks to share your connection, under the NetShare terms of use. Use of NetShare is mandatory if broadband circuit is residential and you intend to collect fees from third parties accessing your network.

      What I get from this is that they don't mind your sharing your connection, but that if you want to charge the neighbors than they're requiring you to use this new system to do it.

      It also sounds like they'll provide your neighbors with email accounts and stuff if they sign up.

      It all seems pretty reasonable to me....

      Neighbors won't want to pay if they can get it for free, right?

      Speaking for myself, if I were using my neighbor's connection a lot, I'd certainly be more than happy to chip in for it.

      --Bruce Fields

    5. Re:I get WiFi now for free by MADCOWbeserk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a wide open network here, as do two other people on my street. Personally I have enough trouble making wifi stretch across my house, I do have a rather large place. Anyway I also live in gated community so wardrivers would be booted by security pretty quickly.

      By the way I also have a place in Marathon on the Florida keys, I found a company there that uses 2.4ghz to broadcast 2.4ghz thoughout the island. It even works on boats. It is tdma not wifi though. Service is pretty good, 512k up 2mbit down for $30 a month, slight latency. Unfortunately they use NAT so you don't get a routable IP. DigitalSail is the name the company incase anyone wants to know.

      Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself could not eat it?

    6. Re:I get WiFi now for free by packeteer · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am already a speakeasy customer with ADSL. I already share my bandwidth of 802.11b. I already have a couple of people walk down the street and get on my connection. The unfortunate problem is i had someone send spam from my network and speakeasy shut off my service. They dont put up with their customers sending spam which i actually appreciate. When i called them to have it reconnected they told me how to configure my linux firewall to block people from doing that. thats what i want in an ISP, i want them to be able to walk me through configureation of my linux boxes so that i can share my connection safely.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    7. Re:I get WiFi now for free by MADCOWbeserk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually my keys place is work related. And no I don't feel like a greedy opulent sack of shit. I make a good income doing something that helps people. It has nothing to do with IT. I co-founded a company, worked a hundred hours a week for a long time and went deeply into debt to get where I am, and I would have done it for free. Finally gated communities are not unusual in Florida.

  2. Great idea by sn00ker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, I actually mean it.
    This is a great way to get the penetration without the risk of people fucking up the configuration of innumerable devices. No more battling with IOS or iptables. No more wrestling with the choice of sendmail, exim or qmail. Now, someone else does all the grunt work, you just sign up users - And you get money for it.

    --
    "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
    1. Re:Great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a sad day when you have to use WiFI to achieve penetration. Call me old fasioned but red wine and berry white on the hi-fi in order to achieve penetration.

  3. TOS by SKPhoton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thats pretty cool. But what if someone breaks the Terms of Service. Would they cut the connection altogether?

    1. Re:TOS by Slayback · · Score: 5, Informative
      Actually, from the FAQ:

      Am I responsible for the NetShare customer usage?

      As a NetShare Admin, you are responsible for all traffic taking place on your circuit, whether generated by yourself or your NetShare Customers. This covers abuse, reasonable use, etc.
  4. Stuck out here by Dr+Tall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I doubt any technology like this will get to ISPs in Iowa any time soon. :(

  5. If I can't get speakeasy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    How do I mod up the CEO for +4 insightful?

  6. But.. routers are evil! by lurid980 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder how this appiles in states where using a router is (or will be) llegal. Its amusing to me that ISP's hand out routers themselves, or in this case encourage connection sharing. Kinda spits in the eye of certain lawmakers that think they know something about technology.

    I'm all for the WiFi boom, but I wonder what new (read: idiotic) laws are going to start surfacing if people are broadcasting their internet connections around.

    In Washington, Free == Illegal

  7. IDSL by SKPhoton · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to the article, this applies if you get either a T1 or IDSL. IDSL maxes out at 144kbps up/down. Thats not much of a connection to share in the first place. Getting a T1 for a residential place is not all that likely even if you do cut it down to 50/50.. still a lot to pay. If youre a business user, you might not want to share the connection for security reasons.

    1. Re:IDSL by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 2, Informative
      RTAC (read the article carefully). I think you've misinterpreted this:
      If you're located in an area that only qualifies for IDSL or T1 services, setting up NetShare in your neighborhood would allow all surrounding locations to contribute to the cost of a T1 circuit while sharing in high quality broadband access!
      Their FAQ page has more detail that indicates it's a change in your status from a Speakeasy customer to their reseller / support guy . You become admin for your neighbours, and attend to their support requests, charge them the amount you decide, etc. This would apply to whatever your current connection is, or else this FAQ answer wouldn't make any sense:
      Because signing up as a NetShare Admin means you will be sharing your existing broadband connection, you will need to expect some decrease in your own service levels the more NetShare Customers you sign up. If you experience a serious decrease in speed levels as you add more customers, you may want to upgrade your broadband connection.
      --
      "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
    2. Re:IDSL by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Thats not much of a connection to share in the first place.

      I would think its doable if you could throttle speeds. It would be nice to be able to tell my linksys, "Okay give the people with this MAC address 128up and 128k down." Now two guys running Kazaa won't make everything slow down to a crawl.

      Unless Speakeasy is going to send me a kick ass router/wireless AP that can manage connections like this it just sounds like a headache.

  8. Speakeasy IS Cool! by stevew · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've had their service since DirectTVDSL crashed. They are VERY Linux friendly - their terms of service are REALLY reasonable, for the most part "do what you want as long as it's legal." Did anyone notice they are one of the three repositories for rpmfind??

    I'm a happy customer!

    --
    Have you compiled your kernel today??
    1. Re:Speakeasy IS Cool! by SynKKnyS · · Score: 2, Informative
      altq on $ext_if priq bandwidth 100Kb queue { q_pri, q_def }
      queue q_pri priority 7
      queue q_def priority 1 priq(default)
      That's how you prioritize ACKs with OpenBSD's pf when you have a download bandwidth of 100Kb.
  9. And they save support costs! by Kelmenson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like Speakeasy's real benefit comes from the fact that the customers will be directing their questions to their local connection rather than calling up Speakeasy's support line. That benefit alone probably outweighs any losses they are going to incur.

    1. Re:And they save support costs! by Skunkworks · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, as part of the beta crew (with my neighbor), they provide support for all of their services (email, etc) but you have to do the support for the wi-fi connection since you're the one who knows it and has configured it. It works pretty well for me and I get to use the money from my half to pay for upgraded speed.

      Hatch

  10. As an economist... by ajuda · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone with a firm grounding in economics, I must admit that I just don't get it. ISPs and other groups have high fixed costs, and low variable costs

    In English, that means that a lot of the infrastructure costs XXX million dollars, no matter how many customers they have and only a few things actually cost the company more as they add more customers. Because of this, I cannot understand why they would want to let people split service costs.

    This article made me think of a joke I once heard... A man goes into a restaurant and sees a sign: "All you can eat 10 dollars, half of all you can eat: 5.50"

    1. Re:As an economist... by Noehre · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The thing is, the DSL ISPs don't hve high fixed costs. They just buy bandwidth and colocation space. The lines themselves are maintained by the telco.

      If anything, Speakeasy is screwing the Baby Bells to lure in more customers.

    2. Re:As an economist... by micaiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Because of this, I cannot understand why they would want to let people split service costs."

      Because lets say a customer just won't pay X amount of dollars for broadband. He or she can't afford it etc. With one more person they can. Now the ISP has a sale that they wouldn't have had. Up to the demarc the bandwidth is the same. The customer is the one who might notice a difference in performance as their next door neighboor is on a downloading spree. As far as the ISP is concerned they have made a sale and are still getting the full amount had the customer been able to afford the access and paid for access all by themselves.

    3. Re:As an economist... by amerinese · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd like to point out that the high fixed costs and low variable costs scenario works quite well with price discrimination.

      For the various reasons mentioned in other posts--deciding who gets to have the access point, sharing bandwith with other users, probably renting the equipment and paying a service fee--sharing the connection does not halve your costs for the same exact service. For those that cannot afford a cable modem, DSL, or T1 line on their own, they will be able to share with their neighbors, but get slightly less good service. They are gaining customers who otherwise wouldn't have been customers at no cost to themselves.

      Another economic phenomenon may also be at work here. When all ISPs are offering the same service for the same price, offering additional services, as in the case of this ISP, will differentiate the provider and put it in its own market.

      Lastly, it appears that this ISP is providing a service apart from just providing the line to the Internet. They mention setting up sharing for T1 lines, which although might be gotten through the local phone company, will still provide a sharing service that they can charge for. In a sense, they are doing exactly what you recommend. It took a high fixed cost to develop a residential internet sharing department/division, but providing service for each additional customer is minimal.

      I see what you mean though. They are inevitably going to cannibalize their own customers... speaking of which, the NYT had an article on bacteria eating it's own... but that's something else.

    4. Re:As an economist... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're not really splitting the cost. You, the neighborhood admin, can set whatever price you think your neighbors will bear.

      "Who sets the NetShare customer pricing?
      We put the power in your hands! As the Admin, you can select any retail price from $20 to $50, in $5 increments, and from $60 to $100 in $10 increments."

      Your bill gets cut in half, they get new customers, they do all the billing, and you do all the local footwork and admin. Signing up people who would otherwise not have gone to DSL.

    5. Re:As an economist... by sleeper0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's multi-level marketing. While speakeasy may have made more money if your neighbor signed up for service with them himself, as they are not a dominant service provider it's much more likely your neighbor would have signed up with another ISP. Having the existing customer do their marketing for them gets them sales they probably wouldnt have otherwise had

    6. Re:As an economist... by zenyu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As someone with a firm grounding in economics, I must admit that I just don't get it. ISPs and other groups have high fixed costs, and low variable costs

      The answer is right there. Their highest fixed cost is the DSL circuit they rent from one of two surly companies in direct competition with them, the ILEC or Covad. If they can get you to do the advertising and on site support for your service that eliminates their largest variable cost and much of the risk. Since the fixed cost becomes lower per customer they can charge a larger premium on the bandwidth costs and make a bundle.

      There was some discussion of this last year in the NYCWireless mailing list. Basically at the time most DSL providers were starting to bless WiFi and Time Warner cable and the Verizon ILEC were banning them. The reason seems to be pure economics, the WiFi friendly companies rent the fixed lines and pay monopoly prices, while the monopolies own the lines and have little or no incremental costs on the lines. The WiFi friendly companies can offer WiFi as a competitive incentive with little cost, while the monopolies see this as one less potential customer on the line they already have to the your house. They are each acting in their percieved medium-term interest. Long term the independent DSL providers see that if each neighborhood had a community built network they could sell bandwidth and more importantly services without much dealing with the old monopolies, there is plenty of competition (at least in NYC) in commercial scale bandwidth. You can even lay fiber yourself in New York without a right of way if you do it at a certain depth in the roadway. The independent DSL providers know they can crush the old monopolies when it comes to customer service. The old monopolies see the independent DSL providers as gnats that will go away because they always have to pay the ILEC for the DSL circuit so they can't be lower cost. They don't want users to get into the habit of treating their "net connections" as internet connections (i.e. that can be further routed.) Plus, soon independent DSL providers won't be able to rent just the copper so even the nominal competition of Covad will be gone. (Covad is just praying a Democrat, any Democrat, gets elected and installed next time around.)

    7. Re:As an economist... by davejenkins · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a boy scout, I suggest you check your footing-- your 'firm grounding' ain't so firm.

      ISP do not have high fixed costs, they have high variable costs. The only fixed costs for an ISP is the hardware for the servers, the server room facilities, and sysadmin overhead.

      ISP variable costs include bandwidth (expensive), marketing costs (expensive with severe diminishing returns), and tech support (overhead, unless you want to go through Mumbai).

      As such, this ISP seems to be pushing the bulk of it's variable costs off on it's partner/reseller/localgeeks. They will acheive great penetration, minimize (if not eliminate) tech support, and streamline their bandwidth requirements (because of the WiFi).

      Smart. If I were in the US, I would sign up today.

      --

      davejenkins.com |

  11. I wonder what their motive is by FryGuy1013 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't it seem counter-intuitive for them to offer this service? I mean, increasing the number of people on residential circuits without increasing the number of paying customers is just going to degrade the service for everyone. People are still going to do it behind the backs of ISP's, but they are actually promoting it. Also, what determines which house gets the access point if the price is split 50-50 for everyone? Just a curiousity.

    The site is down, or I would look to see if there are extra fees for getting service like this, or what other restrictions are put on. All-in-all, this seems good for the consumer, since you can get cheaper net access if you can get neighbors to chip in, without fearing the wrath of your ISP. Probably the RIAA should take a lesson from these people.

    --
    bananas like monkeys.
    1. Re:I wonder what their motive is by keefebert · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The thing about DSL is that the person subscribing gets x amount of bandwidth. If they share it only with themselves, they use x amount. If they split it among 3 friends, they get x/4. The DSL provided is still only sending the max amount they have alotted, and the customer services. If they allow the customer to share, it encourages the customer to upgrade to their higher bandwidth accounts, which cost more, and thus increases the amount of money the company gets. They amount they pay back is not going to be too much, especially if they get higher connection fees out of it.

  12. Re:But.. routers are evil! by lurid980 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Oh, all that garbage about not be allowed to have any device that disguises where a communication originated from. Quite a few states are at least looking at it. I believe someone adopted it already, but I'm not sure. I want to say somewhere around Minnesota, but I can't recall.

    In any case, routers fall directy under this proposal. They're also talking about hooking up 5 machines to one connection is ripping off ISP's or some such garbage. Yet ISPs seem to keep handing out routers and this new Speakeasy plan is even better.

    I wish politicians would stay out of technology altogether.

  13. Re:bad idea by l810c · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've shared bandwidth with roommates before and Porn Lag© during an internet Deathmatch game will make you scream.

  14. Beautiful by mikeophile · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Provide internet bandwidth over DSL and tap into their customers own greed...er entrepreneurship to setup WiFi at their own cost to resell the bandwidth.

    I hope the other ISP's take notice before Speakeasy overruns them.

    On second thought, please come to California and overrun my DSL provider soon.

  15. Here is why. by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because: people are going to do it anyway, and NOT pay for it. This way they get to at least know what's going on, at least to some users. They can reach extra users with zero work on their part, other than billiing.

    In the end, it's silly of course.. ultimately, people will have neighborhood wireless networks set up, and be sharing resources with each other other than just their internet connection.

  16. Re:IDSL (correction) by manly_15 · · Score: 2, Informative
    From the article:
    If you're located in an area that only qualifies for IDSL or T1 services, setting up NetShare in your neighborhood would allow all surrounding locations to contribute to the cost of a T1 circuit while sharing in high quality broadband access!
    The way I interpret this is that Speakeasy is saying that this plan makes it easy for people who don't live in an area where ADSL/SDSL is avalible to share a connection and split the costs, much like the co-ops mentioned awhile back. They are NOT limiting the kind of connection you can use. I would look into setting up a 3-10 Mbit line and sharing that! The costs would still be very low, but imagine the speed when no one else on your network is online - great for getting iso's and other "files" ;-)
  17. Brilliant! by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You provide the physical infrastructure, you also provide the front-line support.
    All they have to supply is the bandwidth (damn cheap, unless your neighbour is a spammer) and some light-duty billing support (also damn cheap) and email services (also cheap). In return, they get a nice new income stream.

    Definite +4 insightfull!

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  18. Re:How Much $ ? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Informative

    I asked the same question of them recently, and was sent this in reply:

    http://www.speakeasy.net/pricing

  19. Interesting concept. by JVert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    supporting a neighborhood network can have alot of benefits if you plan it out. Consider kazaa on one single shared server that everone can remote desktop into to download, then everyone has instant access to what the others have downloaded. Now when someone finds a cool game everyone else can get interested in and you have an instant wlan party. Suddenly its more convinient to download tv shows then recording them.

    The beuty of the internet is you can connect to japan as fast as your neighbor, the problem with the internet is you connect to your neighbor just as fast as japan. Wifi can change alot if you allow it.

    Now THATS what I call a supernode!

  20. Re:RIAA loophole? by JVert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What happens if you get busted for sharing music? Are you now legally responsible for your neighbors actions or are you free and clear because no one knows (not even you) who did the alleged file sharing. Logs? we dont need no stinking logs.

  21. What about the liability? by SedentaryZ · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It looks like there might be some liability concerns. From the FAQ for the NetShare Admins:

    Am I responsible for the NetShare customer usage?

    As a NetShare Admin, you are responsible for all traffic taking place on your circuit, whether generated by yourself or your NetShare Customers. This covers abuse, reasonable use, etc.
    So what liability will you incur if your neighbor you just signed up :

    sends fraudulent spam

    defaces a website

    cracks a site and steals cc info

    publishes libel and slander

    distributes child porn

    distributes the latest eminem track

    etc
    This might be taking on more than I'd want to deal with!

  22. Maybe they'll have fewer non-pay disconnections by MatthewB79 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If your neighbors are sharing a connection with you it should be obvious to them whether you are paying your share of the bill each month. I'd say it could create more of a sense of accountability in regard to keeping the neighbors happy and the connection up. After all, nobody wants to be the guy who got everybody's connection turned off because he forgot to pay the bill for 60 days.

  23. Re:RIAA loophole? by SKPhoton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    hopefully (assuming youre the one sharing the dsl) are running longs. if youre the one leeching, lets hope they're not. ;-)

  24. Re:RIAA loophole? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been wondering that for a while...

    I live in a group house, and there's 9 of us with wireless ethernet running throughout the entire place. If RIAA sues because they suspect one of us is downloading something illegal, how do they decide who gets the blame, if all 9 of us are dhcp'd behind NAT, with only one publically addressable IP? You can't fathomably put it all on the one sap who registered for the DSL connection can you?

  25. depends on neighbors by iosmart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    haha, maybe if something like this comes out in my neighborhood maybe THEN would my stupid neighbors realize that sharing a connection is NOT NOT illegal...

  26. Umm Ethics? by ralphus · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What kind of ethics cause one to intentionally run a open access point and then charge someone who doesn't 'get' it?

    come on.... you aren't open. admit it.

    --
    Revolutions are never about freedom or justice. They're about who's going to be top dog. -- Kilgore Trout
    1. Re:Umm Ethics? by shepd · · Score: 5, Funny

      >What kind of ethics cause one to intentionally run a open access point and then charge someone who doesn't 'get' it?

      A strong belief in Darwinian Selection?

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    2. Re:Umm Ethics? by phyxeld · · Score: 4, Informative
      ralphus: What kind of ethics cause one to intentionally run a open access point and then charge someone who doesn't 'get' it?
      Hehe, I thought I might get a reply like that.

      I run an open network for people passing by who might want to use the net for a while. I leave my network wide open, with DHCP and all, because when I travel, I apprecieate others who do the same.

      However, I pay $100/mo for my dsl (split with housemates, we all value having a 1.5/768 connection), and I'm not paying that to give other people full-time premium dsl in their homes for free. This guy approached me and offered to pay in on our dsl bill, and I don't see our choice of media as having anything to do with the ethics of charging him.

      I keep a pretty close eye on stats for our little net (linux hostap puts these in /proc), and I know how much bandiwdth which clients are using. This guy uses KaZaa a lot, and if he weren't paying me, I'd probably have limited his MAC address to 5k/sec by now, if not dropped him completely.

      I'll have to look into the NetShare thing, one the login stops 404ing, as giving him an email address and having him pay speakeasy directly may be a nicer option.

      I hope to be able to continue to run my network open though.
      ralphus: come on.... you aren't open. admit it.
      Whatever. I block outbound port 25, too. Does that also make it not open? Still seems pretty open to me, strangers can browse the web just fine... I was thinking of limiting it further, so strangers could get online, but could only make TCP connections to a whitelist of ports (ie 22). That way people can ssh out and check their mail, and if they're savy enough they can bring in a full net connection from outside. Now _that_ would be "not really open", though still open enough for a lot of wifi travelers I know.
      --
      __
      Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
    3. Re:Umm Ethics? by MADCOWbeserk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I see no problem with charging the guy. As long as he can call on you to fix it if it goes down. Something a freebie can't do.

    4. Re:Umm Ethics? by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 2, Redundant

      please block outgoing smtp

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
    5. Re:Umm Ethics? by shepd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Or just being a dick?

      Call it what you like but the willingness of people to use stupidity taxes (example: Being a car mechanic) is what has made most countries as good as they are today.

      You need _some_ reason to get off your ass and learn how to do something. Money is just a good motivator. And the lazy ones that don't? It's just darwinism in action.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    6. Re:Umm Ethics? by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I run an open network for people passing by who might want to use the net for a while. I leave my network wide open, with DHCP and all, because when I travel, I apprecieate others who do the same.

      I used to live in an old house in the South, which had a guestroom with its own front door. The idea was, travelers could stop here in the middle of the night, and carry on in the morning. These people were complete strangers, and usually did not arrange ahead of time.

      Now I mentioned this was an old house, built before the Civil War. Apparently hospitality to strangers was a lot different back then.

      I find it interesting that some people are willing to extend a similar electronic hospitality to the wandering traveler, in indirect gratitude for similar treatment by others.

      --

      They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
  27. Speakeasy is a good browser innovation by Rares+Marian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Costs that Speakeasy has to deal with are inflated over the bare cost of service and hardware.

    As more ISPs do this, they put the admin tasks in the hands of capable users (hopefully better than the MCSE's they got conned into hiring). That simplies things a bit. That means that they no longer have to guarantee the speed of broadband. It allows the market to loosen up from the usually stagnant progress it's had. when you have two variables (performance and price) rather than this rigid 56k no more no less, DSL speed no more no less, customers can be satisfied and fewere are left out of the picture.

    Don't we want to close the digital divide?

    As Speakeasy (whoever it is up the chain) no longer has to buy as much hardware, the hardware sellers have to drop their prices, which is good for Speakeasy.

    --
    The message on the other side of this sig is false.
  28. very linux friendly, yes by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Interesting
    They are VERY Linux friendly

    I'll vouch for that. Conversation between me and lady tech at speakeasy:

    tech:"how do you know your connection is down 30% of the time?"
    me: "I use Big Brother to monitor it."
    tech:"Oh cool, we use that here too. Is there a URL you can give me to look at it?"
    me: "Hmm, no, it's on a server inside my network, and I don't have a hole punched in the firewall for it."
    tech:"How about emailing me a screen shot?"
    me: "Hmm, hang on- I don't remember which program it is that does screen shots in Linux."
    tech(sounds of her standing up):"hey guys, anyone remember how to do a screenshot in X?"

    I was speechless...

    --
    Please help metamoderate.
    1. Re:very linux friendly, yes by markov_chain · · Score: 2, Informative

      man xwd

      --
      Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
    2. Re:very linux friendly, yes by Dr.+Photo · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was speechless...

      That's Nature's way of protecting you from making an instantaneous marriage proposal over the phone to someone you've never seen before. :)

  29. greatest ISP ever? Hardly... by e40 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I like Speakeasy. I was their customer for almost a year, but had to leave for SBC because they couldn't give me good service. That's not why I fault them.

    The problems?

    1. Hold times for customer service. 10-15 minutes was normal for me.

    2. They sometimes didn't followup on open tickets. I'd call, get a ticket opened, and wait for days for them to call. Then, call back and ask about it, and hear "Gee, this ticket has been open a long time... sorry." No shit!

    In general, they give good service, though it comes at a premium.

  30. Re:greatest ISP ever? Hardly... by e40 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I forgot to mention that the greatest ISP ever was DNAI (Berkeley, CA), who was bought by RCN who promptly sold off their DSL biz to some crap company that drove it into the ground. Well, RCN started to drive it into the ground before they sold it.

    The original DNAI was far and above the best ISP I've ever had the pleasure to do business with. The people were first rate.

    And get this: you called their # and a human answered before the 3rd ring.... and that human was competent and helpful.

  31. Re:RIAA loophole? by H310iSe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm hoping that having an open access point will allow me the same defense. I can't say for sure it was my neighbors but I can say there's a reasonable doubt.

    'course, that's only if I was stupid enough to go to trial.

    --
    closed minded is as closed minded does
  32. very interesting by lactose99 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I got this email about 6 hours ago and had a chance to check the site before it was /.ed. Very interesting idea, as it brings the whole idea of a bandwidth reseller down to the user/geek level. Combine this with a OpenBSD/FreeBSD/NetBSD/Linux VPN, Squid web proxy, icecast server, a locally-shared fileserver, Quake/Half-Life server and such, and you could sell a value-added DSL/WiFi package to your neighbors. Get enough to sign-up (or add enough extra features to raise the price) and you could quite likely cover the entire DSL line cost via subscription co-payments, getting your own share of the DSL just for providing support to your users.

    --
    Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
  33. possible problem by FathomIT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    if speakeasy is doing the billing: in the mind of the customer speakeasy is the connection. thus, if the local wifi network guru doesn't have the best skills - speakeasy may begin to look like the problem.
    (for business broadband on the east coast or dc earthwave.net.)

    peace outside

  34. Old news. by Some+Dumbass... · · Score: 4, Informative

    They've been advertising this WiFi thing on their webpage for about a month now.

    The rest of that letter is more interesting. Here are some excerpts:

    In addition, we also plan to support IPv6 [editor's note: !!!], multiple connections for bonding or redundancy, individual customer firewall options, improvement of peer-to-peer applications such as video conferencing and application sharing, and, eventually, relatively advanced applications such as IP multi-cast through the last mile. Of course, we will always place an emphasis on assuring the fundamental network reliability and performance our members require.

    [snip]

    Many of you have tried our new and much improved Web-based Email service. You may have noticed this service also includes Calendaring, Reminders (via cell phone, email) and much more. I am excited to announce today that we will soon add a service option to allow true shared calendaring for Business-Class members.

    [snip]

    Although VoIP (Voice over IP) has been, in our opinion, a bit over-hyped for the past few years, we believe that the technology and service has advanced to the point that it is now a viable alternative phone service for many people. Accordingly, we are exploring a Voice over IP solution that will allow Speakeasy customers to use their broadband connection to make local and long distance calls. More details to come as we complete Beta trials and determine cost and features.

    Interesting, eh?

  35. The same newsletter... by quantum+bit · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...also said that they were planning on adding IPv6 support on their new backbone. Woohoo!

  36. Re:RIAA loophole? by kilgore_47 · · Score: 2, Informative
    I live in a group house, and there's 9 of us with wireless ethernet running throughout the entire place. If RIAA sues because they suspect one of us is downloading something illegal, how do they decide who gets the blame, if all 9 of us are dhcp'd behind NAT, with only one publically addressable IP?
    With many p2p networks, it is actually possible to (remotely) tell what a NATed client's internal IP is. I know this is the case with KaZaa at the very least, and probably others too. Now weather the RIAA would make use of that information to avoid prosecuting the wrong people, is another matter entirely...
    You can't fathomably put it all on the one sap who registered for the DSL connection can you?
    I don't know. Have you read your AUP? I suspect it is quite fathomable.
    --
    ___
    The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
  37. Being the point man, err, no thanks by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Funny

    >But what if someone breaks the Terms of Service

    That's a tough one, worse is being everyone's "tech support guy."

    Things you WILL hear:

    The internet is slow!

    The laptop doesn't work in the kitchen/bedroom/toilet/outside.

    I can't play SOME_ONLINE_GAME, open up these ports.

    My buddy is staying for a while, can you hook him up?

    Can you get a stronger antenna for that thing?

    Who the hell is messenger service and why does he keep asking me to buy crap?

    Hey is it cool if I download porn? I won't tell anyone. *replace porn with unregistered software, movies, etc

    Virus scanners are for chumps right?

    Yeah, I'll pay you next week. I'm low on funds now. (or I can pay you in pot, beer, outside art, etc)

    Can you really read my email from your apartment?

    Is it cool if I resale my connection to the guy upstairs? You know, like Amway.
    --

    I'll take peace of mind over saving a few bucks on broadband anyday.

  38. Not "Stuck" by debugdave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just checked and looks like you can get it in Des Moines. So stop making Iowa look like it is worse than people think it is already! You could also do it all yourself minus Speakeasy if you can't get their access in your neck of the woods.

    dave

  39. Business Model changing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A LOT of companies (mostly software) do NOT sell their software directly. They use resellers. This creates not only great relationships, but also adds a free sales force. I think SpeakEasy is applying that model here.

  40. Great Idea but would be would be illegal in AUS by crusty_architect · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a great idea, a real win/win situation. Problem is that in Australia you need a carrier license to do this if you derive any financial benefit from providing carriage to a third party, even if it only cost recovery. I would love to have my neighbours finance an upgrade from 512/128 to 1.5Mb/256kbs.

  41. RIAA Take Note by herlitz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If only there were some execs at the RIAA who thought like Speakeasy, they'd actually be making money rather than spending tons of it on litigation.

    They shoue embrace change rather than attempting to suppress it. By doing this they're only prolonging their inevitable, slow, painful demise.

    An even happier speakeasy customer.

  42. Speakeasy NetShare is a Scam by phyxeld · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's a scam. I explain why here. But the basic gist is that you only get 50% of what your "customers" pay speakeasy credited back to your account. They don't mention this until you're on the MySpeakeasy page where you can set it up (screenshot).

    It makes far more sense to not tell them you're sharing, and just have your neighbors pay you directly. And until the NetShare plan was unveiled, that was an OK thing to do. Now... I may actually need to find a new ISP because of this, if they intend to enforce this nonsense.

    --
    __
    Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
    1. Re:Speakeasy NetShare is a Scam by lactose99 · · Score: 5, Informative

      This isn't a REQUIREMENT to share your bandwidth-- Speakeasy has always allowed you to share your connection with whomever you wish. This is simply so you can opt for Speakeasy to handle the billing to those you share with (if you so choose). Its by no means a requirement, and if you are sharing to people you trust will keep up with their share of the payment, then there is most likely not a reason to use this program (unless the extra email adresses, web space and such make it worth it to you). Scam my ass, you just misread their intentions.

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
  43. Re:Pots and Kettles by Brushfireb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Gee. God forbid someone work hard and achieve something they want. Not giving it away to someone else is wrong! /sarcasm.

    Its called capitalism, and freedom. Welcome.

  44. Re:greatest ISP ever? Hardly... by dkaplowitz · · Score: 2

    I have had extremely short wait times and have found their customer service to be exceptional. A couple times I was 15+ days late with my payments and if I called them and said, "hey I can't pay you for another 10 days, but I will pay as soon as the check comes" they would immediately restore any services. I've found this type of attitude extremely comforting on those rough, lean months.

    And as for availabity, It's been my best ISP experience as well. I think I've been down for a couple hours 2 times in the last year.

    You're right though, it all does come at a premium. They're certainly not cheap by any stretch.

    --
    dkap.info
  45. Re:Umm Ethics? (yer paying a lot!) by phyxeld · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Ouch. FYI You can get 1.5/386 from Earthlink DSL for $49.

    I could also get a 1.5/256 line for $39, from a local ISP who isn't earthlink, and if I didn't want the upstream thats what I'd probably do. If you know a way to get 768k upstream (or, ideally, more) on a non-business (aka residential) DSL line for less money, please do let me know.

    Other reasons I wouldn't use earthlink:

    Last I heard, their DSL still required PPPOE or some other nonsense

    They don't want you to run an open WAP

    Their tech support is retarded (I've dealt with them on behalf of a client, and I think I actually taught them some things about earthlink's hosting services.)

    IIRC, they're owned by some religious organization I want nothing to do with. But I can't remember what the story on that was, and a quick googling didn't turn it up. Maybe just a rumor.

    They tell people it's Their Internet (as in, "It's Your Internet"). What a bunch of crap.

    --
    __
    Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
  46. bad idea... by Alpha_Nerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can just imagine that I'm playing an 'important' CS match, and my neigbor starts up kazaa... Then some idiot starts DLing porn and britany spears mp3s from him, consequently my ping skyrockets to 400ms.

  47. clearly available info before the signup page by way2trivial · · Score: 3, Informative
    scam? only available on the signup page?
    the page referred to in the original article
    http://www.speakeasy.net/netshare/
    has a link labled "learn more"
    it takes you here
    http://www.speakeasy.net/netshare/learnmore/

    and it's SPELLED OUT there
    "..including crediting the Admin's account each month for 50% of the basic Customer fees."

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  48. not so great by joe094287523459087 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i'd just like to add my personal experience with speakeasy as an ISP in 2001, i started paying them $200 a month for 1.5 MB SDSL with 80% of that rate guaranteed. for a year it worked but then dropped below the guaranteed minimum occasioanlly, and then often, and then constantly. despite many calls and emails to their support department my open tickets were always closed with comments like "customer doesn't know what he's talking about." Finally i closed my acct with them and started with cyberonic, who provides 768K upstream for $40/month, and haven't gone under 90% of that yet in the past 6 months.

  49. Funny point by Glonoinha · · Score: 2, Interesting

    -Now I mentioned this was an old house, built before the Civil War. Apparently hospitality to strangers was a lot different back then.

    Esion, do you know WHY it was perfectly safe, common and acceptable to have a guestroom complete with accomodations and leave the front door open for anybody passing by to use before the Civil War, and not after?

    Same reason it used to be perfectly safe, common, and acceptable to leave an unsecured Wireless AP on your network but now it isn't.

    --
    Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  50. Consider bway.net if you're near New York City. by XLawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was once a Speakeasy customer, and I think highly of them. But the greatest ISP is my current one, New York's bway.net. They explicitly let you share your Wi-Fi connection, although they don't seem to let you charge for it.

    Here's the relevant section of their TOS:

    Acceptable Use Policy for WiFi (802.11b) Sharing (Bway.net standard ToS applies to this service.) Bway.net clients are allowed to share their broadband Internet access connection with the general public, by participating in NYCWireless or other communities using WLANs via the 802.11b protocol, if they comply with the following additional conditions:
    1. Clients must notify Bway.net of their participation, in order to insure proper settings and security procedures. Please send email to dsl@bway.net to notify us of your participation.
    2. Client is ultimately responsible for any ToS or AUP violations by public users on client's connection (i.e. spamming, hacking, etc.). Bway.net reserves the right to suspend or discontinue service if violation persists.
    3. Client is also responsible for security of his/her own network and computers.
  51. NetShare IS required if you are collecting fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Speakeasy has always allowed you to share your connection with whomever you wish... If you are sharing to people you trust will keep up with their share of the payment, then there is most likely not a reason to use this program

    Actually, it is a requirement to use NetShare if your line is residential and you are collecting fees. So, yes, you can share with whomever you wish, but you'd better be using NetShare if they are paying you! From the NetShare FAQ:

    Use of NetShare is mandatory if broadband circuit is residential and you intend to collect fees from third parties accessing your network.

  52. A biased reader writes... by Pinguu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An anonymous reader writes "Today, speakeasy (the greatest ISP ever) sent out a letter from the CEO introducing their NetShare Wi-Fi plan. It lets you share your broadband with your neighbors, with Speakeasy handling the billing and splitting the fee 50/50. More ISPs should be like this!"
    Err... you sure this wasn't written by the CEO of Speakeasy? :P

    --
    --