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Toshiba Introduces A 17"-Screen Laptop
George Wright writes "Toshiba have announced a monster of a laptop with their Satellite P25. Seems they've decided to copy Apple's idea of fitting a 17" LCD on a laptop, but have ended making a true aircraft carrier in doing so. Notable "features" are the 2.8GHz P4, the 802.11a/b and the 10lb weight (!!!). Still a relatively low resolution though :("
That sucker looks HUGE, and yet they still haven't put a numeric keypad on it. What's the deal with that?
Well, as a desktop replacement, this unit will probably be pretty capable. It would be ideal for a primary office machine that you could take home from time to time and on occasional business trips. However, if it were to be carried on frequent trips or taken home every day, an ultraportable with a docking station would be a better bet.
"Want in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first." - My Dad
Most people want a faster/quiter/cheaper home pc, yet no companies seem to be interested in this option
You can't make money on those, you only make money on high end systems -- putting an extra 200$ on the cost (for profit) is much easier on a 2k machine than one that costs 500 bucks. (at least, if you want it to sell)
Most people want ...[snip]...yet no companies seem to be interested in this option.
I don't know if I buy that. I mean, companies are all about providing what people want. If they weren't... well, their competitors would do it and they'd be sunk. I think it's rather like the discussions of software reliability versus software features: we all say we want reliability, but it's the feature list that makes us open our wallets. That's why developers make feature-bloated, unreliable software.
Besides, there's plenty of low cost computing to be had out there. I'd be surprised if the average personal computer sold today is over $800. It's just that these boxes don't represent technology innovations/improvements. The high-end systems occupy that role, almost by definition. So you don't hear about some new whiz-bang, revolutionary computer that costs $599... because there's nothing to report: it's a computer, it does what computers did last year but a little faster and a little cheaper. No, what you hear about is the $2000 machine that truly represents a New Thing.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
It is a standard size, just not one you recognize because you don't work in the film industry editing 16x9 video.
I still don't get why go up in size and then barely go up in resolution.
while you claim that 1440x900 is "nice" - I can get 1400x1050 on my 15" screen of my laptop right now. And I currently don't like it - I want one of the new laptops that can do more than that -there are plenty of laptops out there that go higher. I want to be able to fit more on my screen - not just have everything look bigger.
Why do you go up in screen size but not increase the resolution? I don't see what the point is.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Apple weight: 5.4 pounds
Uh no, the 17" Apple weighs in at 6.8 lbs.
The ratio of people to cake is too big
My guess is that it would appeal to the same type that buys a 21" CRT and then sets the resolution to 640x480 (I have heard of old people doing this). I also think that they are trying to lure in clueless people that don't really realize that LCD have a wide variation in quality. Toshiba puts in a big screen, but uses a lower quality so that it is cheaper. Meanwhile, the clueless people drool over a big screen without noticing dimished quality.
I've got a mind like a steel trap - it's got an animal's foot stuck in it.
This introduction of 17 laptops is just an adoption of SUV culture where bigger is supposedly better. My boss who is a mac fanatic, picked up a 17in powerbook not long after it came out. I haven't seen him bring it out once yet, he still uses his older 800mhz 15 with a big crack in the ti case. The 17 is simply a monster to carry and I know Mac fanboys will blab on about how companies are copying Apple's "innovations" but sticking a 17in LCD in a laptop is not innovation, its a step back.
Easy. Laptops are the future. I used to think they'd be horribly annoying, but then I got one. It's an old Thinkpad pentium II I bought when it came off corporate lease. I started using it with wireless ethernet for day to day use, and now I turned my desktop into a file server and never touch it.
I can bring it into the living room when i'm playing video games, or into the kitchen when i want to try out a recipe i found on google. I can even save the page of yahoo! travel and bring it to the airport when my parents are coming to town when i pick them up.
"Sure," I hear you shouting, "but what about paper?" I rarely touch the stuff. And when I do, I usually lose it. Printer ink is expensive. Sure, call me lazy. Sure, call my thinkpad a crutch. I could say the same about your paper and pen. It's just a different paradigm.
my 13.3 inch screen may not be huge, but it's an LCD flat panel with a compact pentium 2 system attatched to it that does most of what I need it to. Desktops are for gaming and for family workstations, now more than ever. The need for a fast desktop system is once again relegated to the CAD and 3D imaging industries as computer speed has outpaced the public need. A computer is an appliance, as many of us are apt to forget. It's important to remember that it's more useful when you can move it from room to room without difficulty. Now that the main obstacle of wired networks has been overcome for most people's purposes, laptops are at a severe advantage everywhere but price.
And as you mentioned above, laptops are faster and run cooler than desktop PCs.
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Well, the laptop percentage went up because the absolute number of desktop sales was going way way down. Apple's machines were stuck at at 166 MHz FSB, and otherwise weren't much faster than machines that were a year or so old.
Now that the Freaking Awesome G5 machines are about to be released, the absolute number of desktop sales should increase massively, reducing the laptop percentage. With the new machines shipping in September or so, I'd expect that Apples 2003H2 laptop sales to drop to 20% or something (while still showing reasonable growth in absolute numbers).
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1: selling cheaper PCs means people get fired. That's why I build them for my friends who cannot afford them otherwise and usually give them a better computer than they could have gotten for twice as much out of an OEM like Dell or Gateway (and yes, I use good parts...Soyo motheboards, athlon chips, micron ram, and so on). People need to go back to the friendly neighborhood PC shop method of buying computers.
2:Companies should be spending more money on their computers systems than they are doing...if they need new computers. Most companies do not...penitum II in the office is plenty for MS Office.
3:There are large fixed costs involved in computers...for the OEMs and hardware manufacturers. But designing a gaudy case and bloated multimedia keyboard is not the kind of cost that the consumer should be forced to swallow.
4:Technology is controled by relatively few, and that's how Taiwan keeps the american companies' pricing in check (Viva VIA motherboard chipsets!)
5:Cost isn't an issue as much as people think it is...people don't upgrade because most people don't need to.
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Because Apple spends many many R&D dollars in making their entire system work together beautifully. They are in control of the entire set of hardware components and the logic board architecture... They also are dealing with processors that are incredibly energy efficient and take up a lot less real estate in silicon. Couple this with Steve Jobs' urge to put everything in the box on a tiny overengineered scale, and add in the lack of legacy ports and you get a much finer design. Also ... Toshiba is lazy and isn't really trying hard... as all PC makers are... lazy and complacent... nothing new happens in the x86 world... a PC is a PC is a PC... there is nothing to distinguish one box from another.
Why is this notebook 10lbs, and Apple can design one 3 lbs lighter?
I might be able to tell you why. I have the 15" screen Toshiba Satellite 2805-S603, which is just a few inches smaller. Toshiba builds their laptops like tanks. Mine has done a belly flop onto a hardwood floor more than once from the desk. Without crashing or interrupting my desktop applications.
At my work, Toshiba laptops may be regarded as a little bigger, but they take abuse. I have seen them slide off the vehicles onto the floor and strike fixed objects. They still work. That's important, because no one has got into trouble or lost their job for destroying a laptop. That 3 pounds is mighty nice insurance.
I have a Toshiba Satellite 5105-S607, and it's got a 15" screen that can do 1600x1200. This 17" does 1400x900? Strikes me as very odd that it's got a LOWER resolution, unless they're using a lowered-bitprint LCD to keep costs down. It would be interesting to see if they go to a higher resolution screen in a few months with a higher price.
I also miss the cPad that my S607 has - the touchpad has a small LCD under it that can be used for things like changing the logo under it, as well as used as a keypad, a calculator, a signature capture device and (with a download) a theramin simulator. It's sufficiently odd as to be very amusing, and can be very useful in some situations.
Brazil has decided you're cute.
Lower speed drives are nessesary in laptop computers because the drives have a tendancy to be jarred much more often than a desktop drive.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Uh, I don't know where you got that idea. Companies are about MAKING MONEY. Period.
Customer satisfaction is not necessarily part of the equation unless the product is new and differnet and you've got to woo consumers into buying it. All the big PC makers have pretty similar offerings. Even if they are not providing what people want and they're making money and keeping the shareholders happy, they'll happily continue doing it. The market is quite homogeneous except for the diamond in the rough that is Apple. The current business model of providing the 'latest' comptuers and hyping them with adversiting has worked for many years. It's tried, tested and true. And it's quite unlikely that one of the big PC makers will have the balls to break out of a pattern that is known to make money, even if it would increase customer satisfaction. Their boad of directors would eat them alive.
Remember, it's 'raising shareholder value,' Not products or customers.
Well also the Apple 17" laptop is a 17" widescreen... which is smaller than a "normal" 17" screen. People complain about the high price of Apple hardware, but then complain how crappy PC hardware is in comparison. You can't have it both ways. Any PC maker can make a laptop that's as nice as a Powerbook, it would just cost $4000 and anyone who's gonna spend that much on a laptop will probably just buy the Mac anyway. Also, keep in mind that Apple has more control over hardware than PC manufacturers do. Most PC laptops are just rebranded Taiwanese things anyway. No need to spend money on R&D.