Slashdot Mirror


Estonia: Where the Internet is a Human Right

securitas writes "The Christian Science Monitor reports on technological change in Estonia, where an enlightened post-Soviet era government believes the Internet is essential for life in the 21st century and backs that up with legislation declaring Internet access is a human right. Estonia is a country where hot, running water was a luxury a decade ago. It's now a place where farmers have broadband Internet, 80% of the people use online banking, Internet usage and broadband penetration rates are comparable to Western Europe, and the government conducts most business (meetings, votes, document reviews, etc.) virtually through a system of networked computers. Not bad for a country that only 10 years ago was a crumbling, bankrupt mess with a network infrastructure to match."

20 of 499 comments (clear)

  1. A further comment by Raindance · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This story is interesting but I think it's a little vague; it would be much better to ask what *kind* of internet is a basic human right (i.e. democratic, decentralized, or centralized, top-down, corporate, or other models). The Estonians seem to be answering this question correctly but it's hardly something that an article like this should gloss over.

    1. Re:A further comment by banzai51 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      An even more interesting story would be HOW they turned around from a crumbling, ex-soviet Estonia into the successful, wired Estonia. What are the employement levels, per capita income, etc. What turned it around for them?

    2. Re:A further comment by John+Zebedee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Depends, I guess, on what you think a "right" might be. I agree completely that the term is far too loosely thrown around these days; any self-identified group with a grievance gets the attention of your political whores by asserting "rights". OTOH, a government willing to assert that, regardless of natural law, citizens in Estonia have the fundamental right of access to information and communication, is a rare example of enlightenment in the political arena. Consider that one of the causes of the downfall of the Soviet regime was access to the Internet, with the consequent free exchange of information and ideas.

      --
      The future is here. It's just not evenly distributed yet. -- William Gibson
    3. Re:A further comment by reemul · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "How is this degrading Human Rights exactly?"

      By listing all sorts of "wouldn't it be nice" ideas and privileges as 'rights'. Rights are the biggies--life, liberty, pursuit of property---not this laundry list crap. Calling it a 'right' is just a cynical ploy to make an entitlement impossible to remove or de-fund at some future date. Deciding whether or not the government should pay for internet access is a normal legislative function, if you don't like it vote for somebody else. Getting rid of a 'right' to free internet access becomes a ridiculously tough struggle, with mindless NGO drones from around the world taking to the streets with the giant puppets, for reasons that are never really clear.

      Calling that sort of nonsense a 'right' is the same as calling some 12-year-old building a website with FrontPage wizards a programmer. It cheapens the title for those that really deserve it. Don't let those imbeciles working on various European constitutions fool you, a right is something fundamental and undisputable, not something it would be kinda nifty to have that you don't want later unenlightened politicos to be able to take away. That's just childish, an example of one-man-one-vote-one-time that doesn't deserve to be even taken seriously.

      --
      You're just jealous 'cuz the voices talk to *me*
  2. Carefull .... by bizitch · · Score: 5, Funny

    You don't know what those wacky Estonians will do with thier "rights" and their "freedoms" ....

    They might start a decentralized peer-to-peer network and start trading files or something!

    --
    ---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
  3. Hot running water a luxury? by Brother52 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where did you get this crap? Estonia was one of the most well-doing republics of the Soviet union. Hot water stopped to be a "luxury" around 1940's, as far as I can tell (I'm a former Soviet citizen).

  4. Obvious? by Clockwurk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not bad for a country that only 10 years ago was a crumbling, bankrupt mess with a network infrastructure to match

    Taking this into consideration, their system seems pretty natural. Estonia (unlike say the US) is starting their tech infrastructure from scratch. They don't have to deal with ancient systems kludged together with duct-tape or deeply entrenched telcos. If the US had an oppurtunity to start from square one, many of the problems we have wouldn't exist.

    This is also a bit like the MS/Linux situation. MS made some bad decisions early, and has to deal with these decisions and peice together work-arounds. Linux was built from nothing, and has the obvious advantage of seeing what mistakes others have made and not repeating them.

    As long as Estonia analyzes mistakes others have made and are careful not to repeat history (bad things), they may well end up with an example for all others on how to assemble a tech infrastructure.

  5. "Crumbling, bankrupt mess"? by heironymouscoward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you are confusing Estonia and Lithuania. Estonia has always been one of the better organized of the Baltic republics, even in the era of the USSR, and one of the first to define and push towards a new west-facing economy thereafter.
    Dramatise if you must, but get your facts right.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  6. Re:The whole country, or just the Tallinn area? by tomatensaft · · Score: 5, Informative

    I live in Estonia, in Tallinn... :D We have some users in bigger towns and even in farms who are using good ADSL Internet access (with, say, 512 Kbit or 1 Mbit/s connection)... In smaller towns people are using shared Internet access, that means "divided Internet". In Tallinn it is almost normal to have a Cable or ADSL Internet access, because it is relativelyy cheap compared to the comfort of use. And almost 66-75% of families (mostly those with kids) have a PC at home with Internet access in Tallinn...

  7. The right to Life, Liberty, ... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... and an Inexhaustible Source of Porn.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. What a pile of nonsense by MSBob · · Score: 5, Informative
    Since when was Estonia 'nearly bankrupt' or had hot water as a 'luxury'. Estonia has always been doing relatively well even during the years of Soviet occupation.

    Just to clarify Estonia is not an 'ex-Soviet' republic. It is an independent country that was forcibly occupied by Soviets in 1940 and regained their independence in 1990. Even their language has nothing to do with Russian. It shares its roots with Swedish and Norwegian.

    --
    Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
  9. Re:What do you expect by m_chan · · Score: 5, Informative
    I couldn't decide if you were being funny, trolling, or flaming. Often, good posts are all three. Anyway, I saved my modpoints and replied to you instead.

    I assume you have not read articles from The Christian Science Monitor. I would not consider myself a religious person, let alone a Christian. However, I have found this publication to be valuable in its content, mainly because they have their own writers and do not rely as significantly upon wire services.

    I pulled some info from their about page for you and anyone else not interested in clicking through to read.

    Consider this quote from _1908_ about the intent of the publication:
    there was a growing need for a daily newspaper that "will place principle before dividends, and that will be fair, frank and honest with the people on all subjects and under whatever pressure" -- a truly independent voice not controlled by "commercial and political monopolists."
    Here is another quote to chew on:
    The Christian Science church doesn't publish news to propagate denominational doctrine; it provides news purely as a public service. Here's why: If the basic theology of that church says that what reaches and affects thought shapes experience, it follows that a newspaper would have significant impact on the lives of those who read it.
    Try reading some of their articles. I think you will find it a valuable source of information, regardless of the connotation in their banner.
  10. This is concepticide in action by Arker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree. I'm very happy that Estonia is making such good progress in getting people hooked up. But the issue of the misuse of the word 'right' remains.

    This is concept-destruction, using concepts in ways that contradict their meaning, and if we let people get away with it people eventually forget what a real right is. They aren't the only ones, of course, but it's still very sad to see.

    A right is something that you can have without taking away someone elses, that's one of the key qualities of it. Your right to free speech doesn't stop me from talking. Your right to practise the religion of your choice, or not, doesn't stop me from having the same right. But when you're talking about goods and services, such as medical care or internet access, these aren't things that you have as long as no one interferes to take them, rather they are things that someone must work to produce. So, if you claim a 'right' to these things, what you have done is claim a 'right' to someone elses labour, a right to enslave others, essentially. There is no right, there can be no such right, it is contradictory to the core of what rights are.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  11. personal impressions by nuffle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I visited Estonia about two months ago (I'm an American) and will be moving to Tallinn, the capital, in about three months. I was fortunate to meet an Estonian studying in western Maryland. She has to head back to Estonia soon to finish her degree, and I will be following her, working remotely for my current US employer.

    I was very personally impressed with the internet infrastructure there. It was an encouraging sight to enter a very small town by car and see a sign that said "this area covered by public wireless internet". And if they weren't covered by wireless, one of the first informational signs you'd see as you entered a town was "Internet this way -->" (usually directing you to a library).

    Of course, seeing signs is different than working and living there, but from visiting my friend's family members, it does seem that fast internet is ubiquitous and inexpensive.

  12. Re:A right? by martinflack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a "gateway right", as are many US rights.

    For example, there is nothing intrinsically beneficial about being able to carry a firearm; that lump of steal on your belt doesn't feed you, clothe you, make you happy, or help build society. Heck, you're not even allowed to fire it at most people except under special circumstances. But it's a gateway right - it positively aids in the protection of all your other rights, e.g. freedom of speech, assembly, and religion. The government knows that at any given moment a sizeable group of citizens has the ability to bring physical force to bear.

    We're entering a world where information is more powerful than weaponry. Witness how much work Bush had to do on the political stage before he could invade Iraq, and how much information his army had to continuously feed out in order to keep proper appearances. In days past none of this was necessary for a superpower.

    The idea that freedom to access and trade information is superior to the freedom to carrying a firearm makes perfect sense to me. Not that I would support a cancellation of the latter right, but I do recognize the shifting priorities.

    And remember, all "rights" are novel. We call them "basic" or "inherent," but nature plays no part in them. All rights are contrived fictions that people created; and so every "right" has a birthday, so to speak. Today is the birthday of the Right To Internet Access. And her mother is Estonian.

    What may be interesting (and wonderful) is that we now live in a world where people don't necessarily have to die for the creation and recognition of new human rights.

  13. here is what turned it around for them. by abhisarda · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ok.

    I saw a programme on DW-TV a few months ago on this subject. Why has Estonia made such progress while its neighbours are still languishing in the soviet era?

    The reason of such a profound change in Estonia is because of one main reason- change of guard. Young people control the majority of Estonia's power. Be it politics, architecture, medicine..you name it. The older generation has handed over a lot of the responsibilities.

    The prime minister himself is 35 years old. All the members of his cabinet are younger to him.

    What is so special about young people? They carry no baggage. They want more economic progress and they will do whatever is needed to achieve that. Politicans/businesspeople/engineers work towards a common goal i.e economic progress. Nobody cares a damn about communist crap.

    Here is a quote taken from (DW-TV).

    YOUNG ESTONIAN LEADERS

    One of Estonia's youngest politicians was asked this week to be the country's new prime minister. 35-year old, Juhan Parts - who was 24 when he started in politics - was chosen by the victorious Res Publica party after recent elections in the Baltic state. Described as 'boyish and brainy', Parts belongs to a tradition of young leaders in top positions within Estonia's government. The country's first prime minister after independence was Mart Laar who was 32 years old when sworn in.

    Here is a related article about young people in Estonia.

    Leaders elsewhere in the struggling economies of Europe could learn something from Estonia.
  14. Internet prices in Estonia by m9 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just some statistics from someone who lives in Estonia:

    Starman Cable
    64/32 = 149EEK = 11$ = 10
    512/128 = 295EEK = 23$ = 20
    1024/320 = 495EEK = 38$ = 33

    Estonian Telephone ADSL:
    256/128 = 295EEK = 23$ = 20
    512/256 = 495EEK = 38$ = 33

    Cable is only available in the bigger cities, ASDL is available almost whereever there is a telephone line. There is no limit on how much you can download. 11$/month for an always-on connection which is faster than a dialup is quite cheap IMO.

    And whereever even the telephone lines don't go, you've got GPRS which is relatively cheap compared to other countries (from ~2.5 to ~0.7 $/ per MB!)

    All of my friends have internet access. Only one of them has dialup. Even my grandmother surfs on the net! My grandfather doesn't though... Some older people fear the internet.. (i'm not touching that computer, i'll brake it!), but almost everybody (at least in the cities) has used internet/computer in their lives..

    marius

  15. Re:The whole country, or just the Tallinn area? by fazz · · Score: 5, Informative

    as a citizen of Estonia, I can confirm that:

    a) hot water was NOT a luxury 10 years ago.
    b) broadband internet is NOT available for most of the territory outside major cities.
    c) telephone network was in very poor condition 10 year ago, indeed. i started using FidoNet back in 1992 and it was a real mess for next few years.
    today, it's much better.

    for me, this is typical overdramatic artice from foreign media. ;-)

    --
    fazz

  16. The Internet & free speech by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This story is an example of degrading "human" rights by whores in positions of political power.

    What good is the right to free speech if nobody is allowed to listen to you?

    This should also be considered in the context of a post-stalinist political sensitivity. Stalin considered typewriters to be weapons of revolution -- he knew that, if the people got together and realized that others had the same idea, the recognition of agreement could cause the people to refuse to act like sheep.

    In North American we're spoiled. Access to basic telecommunications is so easy and ubiquituos that we consider it to be a right. The fact that we haven't had to fight for it (yet) doesn't make it any less important.

    Consider this: When the Chinese censors tried to cut off access to google, we thought that something was wrong. They weren't cutting access to the net... just one of it's search engines. Similarly, many people were upset when the government effectively shut off Mitnic from access to computers (effectively including The Internet). Many of us are living like the internet is a basic right, but we just haven't declared it so.

    How would you feel if, in the midst of 9/11 or some political crisis, the government managed to shut off access to the internet "to prevent panic"? I've been on the inside of political news stories, and I do not trust the news media to report political events in a completely unbiased manner. For me the question is more one of whether or not the bias is in my direction.

    The right to free speech requires the right to be heard. The interned allows people to be heard by whomever wants to listen to us. In my world, the right to the Internet is a corrolary of the right to free speech. The Estonian government has simply codified this concept.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  17. Governments can't give rights. by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Looking back aren't new rights given in light of their overwhelming need in an ever-changing world?

    The point is that rights aren't given by anyone, with the philosophical exception of God. They are merely recognized. Modern governments recognize that people have the right to freely express their opinion, to worship as they choose, to assemble, and so on, because those are intrinsic to being human.

    The poster's point is that by adding "and you have a right to running water, and a right to a 40-hour work week, and a right to Internet access, and a right to a refrigerator, and a right to 99-cent cheeseburgers with your Super Club card", governments cheapen the idea that these are fundamental human attributes and reduce them to the level of merely benefits bestowed by the government.

    The American model recognizes certain God-given rights in the first ten amendments to the Constitution not to create them, but to acknowledge them so that they cannot be infringed. The Ninth and Tenth Amendments acknowledge that the list is not all-inclusive of the entire spectrum of human rights - it merely enumerates some that are so important that they are worth mentioning on their own. For good or ill, of course, the judiciary has identified more rights over the years which are not specifically enumerated, like "privacy". But the theory is that "privacy" is still not considered a government-given right, because there can't be any such thing - it is intrinsic, and simply doesn't happen to be mentioned explicitly in the Constitution.

    ASA

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.