Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the and-they-all-run-the-beast dept.
X86BSD writes "Interesting survey at Netcraft showing the most reliable hosting providers for June. Interesting that not just the top 5 are FreeBSD but that the top 10 come from all variants in the industry."
Before the *BSD is Dying trolls start...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Informative
According to Netcraft,
Intriguingly, all of the Top 5 placed sites run the FreeBSD operating system
I'm curious over the choice of the word "Intriguingly." My experience with FreeBSD has shown it to be nothing but rock-solid as a server OS. I actually prefer it over Linux these days (I was a RH-zealot for a couple of years until I "saw the light," as it were).
What would be intriguing were if Windows had nabbed the top 5 spots...
I'm a happy {Free|Open}BSD user after switching from Linux about 4 years ago. I haven't had to monkey with Alice's patches to Bob's kernel mods to run Charles' software since. This isn't a Linux slam but with the BSD family, once you have a stable system it just runs until the hardware dies. In fact I only reboot my OpenBSD boxes when there is a security hole (you know how often that is!) or big upgrade to the kernel/OS that I want, not just the Kernel du Jour.
Isn't that true of *any* solid server OS? If you get it set up correctly then leave it, most machines will run until the hardware dies.
I personally don't know many real Linux production servers (as opposed to bobs personal box) where the admins mess with kernel patches - ever. They normally use a stable distro, normally Debian or one of the older Red Hats, and just leave it.
Machine footprint
by
Gandalfar
·
· Score: 5, Funny
With footpring changing tactics I'll bet well soon see increase of Dreamcast based providers.
Newsflash in not so far future: "IIS down 5% Dreamcast up 15%"
top 50 are typical
by
jd142
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
If you look at the top 50, you get these percentages:
20% FreeBSD 26% Windows (NT and 2000) 30% Linux 22% Solaris
2% HP-UX
This is fairly close to the overall distribution of servers. It usually works out to about the same numbers. Currently, Apache is at 63 percent and IIS is at 26%. Which would be about right if all of the Windows boxes are running IIS and most of the unix variants are running Apache.
So the news appears to be that the top 50 most reliable providers are, generally speaking, reflective of the whole of all providers. Which means that it isn't just the server os that makes a hosting company reliable, it's the hardware and the techs. There's no magic bullet for uptime. You can't categorically say that one os is the absolute best. You have to include the technical skills of the admins in the equation.[1]
[1] You *might* be able to state that free/open source software is more easily secured, but I suspect that the admins running those 25 bsd/linux sites would tell you that their skills made a difference in their uptime.
This is not surprising.
by
Krapangor
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Main difference between FreeBSD and other system is not it's very good stability but the professionalism of the user base.
FreeBSD comes from an academic background and has much more high-profile users than any other system.
Even the very stable Linux system is dominated by hobbyists. The default installations of non-*BSD system are usually feature laden and sometimes broken. And note that stability of the kernel is not the only issue. If you fuck your configuration then you are fucked for good. It's a common misconception that a stable kernel leads to a stable system.
So, the pros and PhDs tend to use FreeBSD, not only for the above mentioned issues but also due to the clean design, tight codebase and modern algorithms. Note that e.g. FreeBSD was the first system with O(log(n)^2) swapping. This gives a double advantage: you get a stable system with a high-profile userbase. That's why we will always see FreeBSD on the top.
-- Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Re:I'd agree, but
by
Ziest
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Agree. Long uptimes are a recipe for disaster. 2 things can go wrong 1) the system on disk has changed under the system in memory. Broken or missing shared libraries and init scripts. 2) my fav, the disks stop spinning. This is lots of fun. Try it some time. Go to one of your older machine, the one with 500 plus days of uptime. Shut it down, remove the power cord, wait 3 minutes, reattach the power cord, put your finger on the power switch. OK, gentlemen, place your bets. Will all the disks spinup? If they do not, you get to find out how good your backups really are. When was the last time you backed that system up? When was the last time you verified the backup? A simple "Put more memory into this machine" becomes 3 or 4 days of living hell as you run around trying to figure out what happened, try to reconstruct the contents of that dead disk. Fun, fun, fun.
Anyone who allows a machine to go more than 30 days without a reboot is asking for trouble. There is a reason why mainframers have a maintenance window every Sunday.
You say that, but I believe that netcraft detects the OS based on responses to queries sent to the webserver.
Nmap, on the other hand, detects the OS based on the random-number sequence generation of TCP packets.
How does this affect things? Well, if you have a load balancer or firewall that forwards the HTTP connection to another webserver somewhere, then nmap will return the OS of the firewall or load balancer, whereas netcraft will return the OS of the final webserver.
AIX for web hosting
by
macwhiz
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Are there hosting providers using AIX in their hosting environments? I would think that RS6000s would be just too expensive in comparison to blades or generic 1 or 2U x86s for hosting environments.
I worked at a major telco ISP that used AIX. In fact, not only were the web services hosted on AIX, but they were hosted on a RS/6000 SP2 parallel supercomputer.
This sounds like overkill, and in some ways, it is... but the SP2 is, in essence, a very fancy rack. Each SP2 frame has a number of nodes in it; each node is a self-contained RS/6000 system. The major difference in an SP2 node is that it has a SP Switch connection. The SP Switch is a very high speed switch fabric that allows the nodes to communicate. Combined with heavy-duty software and fault-tolerant design, you wind up with a parallel supercomputer...
...or one heck of a rack system that lets you run the nodes as individual servers, or in clusters, with lots of bandwidth and control.
For a service provider that wants to lure people in with a low starting cost, and hope that turnover from downtime isn't too bad, AIX can be expensive. I used to dislike AIX, because of its reputation as "not quite UNIX." Once I had the opportunity to use it, I found that it really is well suited to many ISP tasks. AIX has inherited a lot of attitude from IBM's mainframe days. IBM's mainframes were used in "can't go down" environments. AIX has many features that share that design philosophy.
As for the cost... as with any major manufacturer system, there's the published cost, and there's the cost you negotiate. If you are buying a whole setup, you can usually cut a deal. Of course, if you're buying major manufacturer equipment, you're already committed to paying more than you would for a white-box open source system, presumably because you want advanced features that haven't made it into OSS yet, or you want support.
(I've found that IBM's AIX support kicks ass. When I'd call Sun, even with a Platinum contract, I'd usually get someone who'd do the same SunSolve search I already tried, then promise to get back to me some day. Calling IBM gets results... they will put as many people into conference as they have to in order to get enough subject-area experts talking to figure out the problem and resolve it, preferably on the same call. A far cry from "RTFM and then post to the mailing list!")
The only ISP task that I found AIX had trouble supporting was INN. At least at the time I was working with it, AIX had resource limitations that caused trouble for very large INN installations. (This ISP was working with a two terabyte news spool.)
Looking at the whole 50
by
LooseChanj
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I see the lowest freebsd is #41. The lowest Solaris 8 is #49. Lowest linux is #48. Lowest Win2k is #47.
Those are the 3 OSen which comprise the top 10, which has 5 fbsd, 2 Solaris 8, 2 Win2k, and 1 linux.
Totals for the top 50 are 10 Freebsd, 15 linux, 8 Solaris 8s, 2 'Solaris', 12 Win2k, 1 NT4/Win98 box admin'ed by a crack smoking monkey, and a lone HP-UX. (I know missed one somewhere, but screw it...I'm not recounting.)
Now, what does this tell us? There are FreeBSD users at the top and bottom. Same for Solaris 8 and Win2k. Linux too. OS doesn't really seem to be much of a factor. Hardware and network reliability I would expect to be more relevant.
My conclusion? The people who chose these things, along with the OS, and setup and maintain them, to land themselves in the top 5 must have made better decisions than the rest. That the people who chose the most reliable hardware and networks also chose FreeBSD...well, it only goes to show.:-)
-- Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
Re:Looking at the whole 50
by
Mastoid
·
· Score: 5, Funny
No matter what you say, *someone* will disagree.
That's not true.
-- I had an argument...with the person here at the university that teaches OS design. I wonder when I'll learn --Linus
Slashdot Mirror
What would be intriguing were if Windows had nabbed the top 5 spots...
I don't know, I think http://localhost/ is the fastest, most reliable of them all instead. Shit content though...
Hate me!
I'm a happy {Free|Open}BSD user after switching from Linux about 4 years ago. I haven't had to monkey with Alice's patches to Bob's kernel mods to run Charles' software since. This isn't a Linux slam but with the BSD family, once you have a stable system it just runs until the hardware dies. In fact I only reboot my OpenBSD boxes when there is a security hole (you know how often that is!) or big upgrade to the kernel/OS that I want, not just the Kernel du Jour.
Trolling is a art,
With footpring changing tactics I'll bet well soon see increase of Dreamcast based providers.
Newsflash in not so far future: "IIS down 5% Dreamcast up 15%"
If you look at the top 50, you get these percentages:
20% FreeBSD
26% Windows (NT and 2000)
30% Linux
22% Solaris
2% HP-UX
This is fairly close to the overall distribution of servers. It usually works out to about the same numbers. Currently, Apache is at 63 percent and IIS is at 26%. Which would be about right if all of the Windows boxes are running IIS and most of the unix variants are running Apache.
So the news appears to be that the top 50 most reliable providers are, generally speaking, reflective of the whole of all providers. Which means that it isn't just the server os that makes a hosting company reliable, it's the hardware and the techs. There's no magic bullet for uptime. You can't categorically say that one os is the absolute best. You have to include the technical skills of the admins in the equation.[1]
[1] You *might* be able to state that free/open source software is more easily secured, but I suspect that the admins running those 25 bsd/linux sites would tell you that their skills made a difference in their uptime.
Main difference between FreeBSD and other system is not it's very good stability but the professionalism of the user base.
FreeBSD comes from an academic background and has much more high-profile users than any other system.
Even the very stable Linux system is dominated by hobbyists. The default installations of non-*BSD system are usually feature laden and sometimes broken. And note that stability of the kernel is not the only issue. If you fuck your configuration then you are fucked for good. It's a common misconception that a stable kernel leads to a stable system.
So, the pros and PhDs tend to use FreeBSD, not only for the above mentioned issues but also due to the clean design, tight codebase and modern algorithms. Note that e.g. FreeBSD was the first system with O(log(n)^2) swapping. This gives a double advantage: you get a stable system with a high-profile userbase. That's why we will always see FreeBSD on the top.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Agree. Long uptimes are a recipe for disaster. 2 things can go wrong 1) the system on disk has changed under the system in memory. Broken or missing shared libraries and init scripts. 2) my fav, the disks stop spinning. This is lots of fun. Try it some time. Go to one of your older machine, the one with 500 plus days of uptime. Shut it down, remove the power cord, wait 3 minutes, reattach the power cord, put your finger on the power switch. OK, gentlemen, place your bets. Will all the disks spinup? If they do not, you get to find out how good your backups really are. When was the last time you backed that system up? When was the last time you verified the backup? A simple "Put more memory into this machine" becomes 3 or 4 days of living hell as you run around trying to figure out what happened, try to reconstruct the contents of that dead disk. Fun, fun, fun.
Anyone who allows a machine to go more than 30 days without a reboot is asking for trouble. There is a reason why mainframers have a maintenance window every Sunday.
Another day closer to redwood heaven
You say that, but I believe that netcraft detects the OS based on responses to queries sent to the webserver.
Nmap, on the other hand, detects the OS based on the random-number sequence generation of TCP packets.
How does this affect things? Well, if you have a load balancer or firewall that forwards the HTTP connection to another webserver somewhere, then nmap will return the OS of the firewall or load balancer, whereas netcraft will return the OS of the final webserver.
I worked at a major telco ISP that used AIX. In fact, not only were the web services hosted on AIX, but they were hosted on a RS/6000 SP2 parallel supercomputer.
This sounds like overkill, and in some ways, it is... but the SP2 is, in essence, a very fancy rack. Each SP2 frame has a number of nodes in it; each node is a self-contained RS/6000 system. The major difference in an SP2 node is that it has a SP Switch connection. The SP Switch is a very high speed switch fabric that allows the nodes to communicate. Combined with heavy-duty software and fault-tolerant design, you wind up with a parallel supercomputer...
...or one heck of a rack system that lets you run the nodes as individual servers, or in clusters, with lots of bandwidth and control.
For a service provider that wants to lure people in with a low starting cost, and hope that turnover from downtime isn't too bad, AIX can be expensive. I used to dislike AIX, because of its reputation as "not quite UNIX." Once I had the opportunity to use it, I found that it really is well suited to many ISP tasks. AIX has inherited a lot of attitude from IBM's mainframe days. IBM's mainframes were used in "can't go down" environments. AIX has many features that share that design philosophy.
As for the cost... as with any major manufacturer system, there's the published cost, and there's the cost you negotiate. If you are buying a whole setup, you can usually cut a deal. Of course, if you're buying major manufacturer equipment, you're already committed to paying more than you would for a white-box open source system, presumably because you want advanced features that haven't made it into OSS yet, or you want support.
(I've found that IBM's AIX support kicks ass. When I'd call Sun, even with a Platinum contract, I'd usually get someone who'd do the same SunSolve search I already tried, then promise to get back to me some day. Calling IBM gets results... they will put as many people into conference as they have to in order to get enough subject-area experts talking to figure out the problem and resolve it, preferably on the same call. A far cry from "RTFM and then post to the mailing list!")
The only ISP task that I found AIX had trouble supporting was INN. At least at the time I was working with it, AIX had resource limitations that caused trouble for very large INN installations. (This ISP was working with a two terabyte news spool.)
I see the lowest freebsd is #41. The lowest Solaris 8 is #49. Lowest linux is #48. Lowest Win2k is #47.
:-)
Those are the 3 OSen which comprise the top 10, which has 5 fbsd, 2 Solaris 8, 2 Win2k, and 1 linux.
Totals for the top 50 are 10 Freebsd, 15 linux, 8 Solaris 8s, 2 'Solaris', 12 Win2k, 1 NT4/Win98 box admin'ed by a crack smoking monkey, and a lone HP-UX. (I know missed one somewhere, but screw it...I'm not recounting.)
Now, what does this tell us? There are FreeBSD users at the top and bottom. Same for Solaris 8 and Win2k. Linux too. OS doesn't really seem to be much of a factor. Hardware and network reliability I would expect to be more relevant.
My conclusion? The people who chose these things, along with the OS, and setup and maintain them, to land themselves in the top 5 must have made better decisions than the rest. That the people who chose the most reliable hardware and networks also chose FreeBSD...well, it only goes to show.
Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.