Slashdot Mirror
The Near-Term Future Of Open Source Desktops
securitas writes "eWEEK has two related articles on the growth of open source software. The first article is about the growth of desktop Linux, featuring Lotus and the Open Source Applications Foundation (OSAF) founder Mitch Kapor, who says (among other things) that call centers will be where the next wave of growth for desktop Linux happens and that 10 percent of global desktops will be Linux in a few years. He bases his statements on a report by Eazel and GNOME Foundation co-founder Bart Decrem entitled 'Desktop Linux Technology and Market Overview' (PDF) mentioned last week. The second story is about open source software growth in the government sector where government agencies like the U.S. Census Bureau have embraced OS software for projects like the State and County QuickFacts site. Based on Perl, Apache, MySQL and Linux, the site gets 200,000 page views a day."
Enterprise features like layered transactions, replication, stored procs, load balancing, etc. are available using Postgres...but you can't find developers and cheap hosters that run Postgres anymore. Was it just the name "MySQL" that made it popular?
As many as microsoft keeps making?
Personally, I know I was going to migrate over right before win2k came out. Then win2k came out and fixed many of the problems I had with previous versions [making the reasons for migration moot]. Now Linux [and OS-X too] is back to a point where they are looking desirable again.
Except for today, when we line it up for a good Slashdotting.
To be more on topic, I wonder how much of this is chosen by the PHBs ("I've heard a lot about this Linux, maybe we should use it for this next big project.") and how much is chosen by the admins without PHB approval ("Well, we need this project up on a server, and we have this old PII-400 laying around, let's just throw Linux on it, fire up Apache and mod_perl and then take an early lunch."). I know that when I was in the Air Force, I saw the latter happen much more often than the former.
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
Ok, Windows vs. GNU/Linux on the desktop is no new discussion, but here goes...:
I think that GNU/Linux in many ways are equal to or better than MS Windows considering apps. A recent GNOME or KDE provides a great working environment with good browsers, email apps, etc. etc.
A problem for GNU/Linux _from a joe user standpoint_ is the inherent security and multi-user nature of UNIX-like OS's. Windows has a history of insecurity, but that also means no hassle with passwords and the like.
This "hassle" and inherent security are of course Right Things, but Joe User just thinks it's annoying.
It would be great to get a serious effort to send "old" (meaning 200MHz and up) computers to third world countries, loaded with open source operating systems. Macs, PCs, whatever. The problem is that to send them all there would cost more than to just buy new ones from a local manufacturing plant :P Maybe we could load up a few shipping containers, weld 'em shut, and just drop them in the ocean. The countries where they wash up get the computers.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Hey, you too?
:)
Yup, here we have quite a few machines -- with NT and Office 2000 courtesy of "The Foundation." The place offers free basic computer literacy classes and all of the promo flyers have "made possible by a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation"
I suppose it's nice when the library couldn't have sprung for neither hardware nor software on their own...but the machines are aging and NT support is going bye-bye. Will there be an eventual "forced" upgrade to XP? On these machines? Ha!
Yes, I see it as a way to introduce MS Software to those who don't yet have a computer. For people who don't know any better, that's all there is. I've had people ask where they can get MS Word or Excel...and they're somewhat shocked by the pricetag. (of course I let them know about OSS alternatives like every good geek)
I'm sure it does help promote computer literacy in some ways. With MS Office being the "standard" in the workplace, it's decent training. In the long run, however, there's no doubt about it -- the whole donation bit has been rigged to act like a giant MS commercial. A few additions to the scripted lesson plan should add a bit more truth to their advertising.
About them Open Sourcers,
ain't they codin' warriors.
Writing under licenses,
coded by they lawyers.
Some code on a payroll,
but usually it's free.
BSD to GPL,
they code for all to see.
Them happy slappy Open Sourcers,
they rights shall not be lost.
Keeping libs bug free because
you just can't beat the cost.
How to be an Open Sourcer,
there's no hidden catch.
Find an open project,
'n submit an open patch.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
One that I helped set up had a series of applications talking to a printing package which central templates had been defined in.
People just entered the action on a screen, and the server sent a request to the printing package which printed a letter on a central printer.
All the applications ran through a browser. That company could move the call centre desktops to Linux very easily.
Note: I like Linux, and I have a dual boot Linux/Windows machine at home. I've used UNIX, Linux, and Windows professionally (old school MacOS, too).
Windows has its share of troubles. The idealistic among us don't like Microsoft's market domination. The security-minded don't like the multitude of holes. But take both of those out of the picture, and you end up with a simple question: Is the Linux desktop experience, including applications, really significantly better than Windows in some quantifiable ways? In my personal experience, the OSS desktop environment developers have been playing a game of catch up with Microsoft. Sure, Microsoft didn't invent the GUI. We all know that. But it's not like Linux + KDE|GNOME is so much stunningly better than Windows that there's a reason to jump ship to it. At the same time, realize that there are many, many happy Windows users *and* developers. The anti-Microsoft angst is largely from a certain crowd. The end result is that this issue is largely a muddle. If you paint it to be a clear-cut battle, then it's not representative of reality.
Choice is good, yes, but realize that this choice already exists. Is beating Microsoft and getting everyone to use the Linux kernel a win for choice?
You're confusing "customer support" with debugging. The first round of customer support only records the symptoms of the problem into a database and offers some known solutions (make sure X is installed, reboot your computer, powercycle your cable modem, etc). Only when all else fails do they try to reproduce your problem on an in-house system, and only for those computers would the OS matter.
It is still ironic to have a call center for a Windows app be running Linux...
Is this boiled-frog syndrome?
Perversely, I think maybe we're getting so used to the gradual flow of success stories that we're losing sight of just how far Linux has come in the last few years. Five years ago, the notion that governments and corporations would be rolling out Linux desktop deployments numbering into five figures would have been comical to even the most rabid zealot. Now it's almost commonplace. The rate of acceptance has been phenomenal. Five years from now I'd certainly expect OSS OSes to make up more than 10% of worldwide installs, and at that point it's a done deal - the operating system will be a commodity, and the closed-source vendors will be either giving their OS away to support app or service revenue, or actually having to work for a living.
The use of linux and thin clients has been very effective in rural Namibia. More than 250 schools have been connected and an infractstructure of free educational websites exists. Its a little sparse at the moment but improving. Access to decent education sites actually can help students and teachers who lack resources. With linux you don't need the latest and greatest hardware to enable the masses. I support these projects because education is the one way we can break the cycle of violence that engulfs Africa. The whole of Southern Africa is peaceful now and starting to develop (believe it or not!).
Information should be free!
Because Windows has gotten worse (XP licensing bullshit) or because Linux has gotten better?
Honestly, I haven't seen the latter happen, and this is from someone who runs only Linux on his home computer and, when a new game comes out, waits a few months for a Native or Wine-based port.
From everything I've seen, XP is better than 2K if only it weren't for the licensing bullshit. A strategy to defeat Windows (and this assumes there is a think-tank working to defeat Windows, and I don't think this really exists) would have to involve licensing, and right now Microsoft is vulnerable. Linux is better because it's open, and free. Period. Don't make technical arguments, make licensing arguments.
Q: "Is Linux better than Windows?"
A: "Yes, but in ways that you'd have to be a sysadmin to really understand. In other ways, it's worse. There are defintely going to be tradeoffs, and you'll take some time getting on your feet again."
Q: "Then why should I switch?"
A: "Because technology freedom is more important than technology, in ways that matter to everyone, not just programmers and not just budget controllers. Everything in your computer should belong to you."
People are responsive to this kind of argument, but it has to be presented honestly.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Companies won't provide an option unless they think there's a demand. They won't do that until their customers get stropy with them in enough numbers to force an option..... despite people's grumbles about Windows - most people aren't prepared to do much to change the status quo. It's the larger companies (with OS licences for thousands of employees) that they large cost savings could be made though - not just in initial cost - but ongoing savings.
Video Game cheats, hints a
Regarding call centers, I've come to the same conclusion over the past few months. Desktop Linux is a great solution.
What Linux needs as a killer-app in this environment is good VoIP support. By good, I mean cheaper than Windows.
Specifically, I'm thinking it would be feasible to add software echo-cancellation to some of the sound card drivers or as a separate module. That would easily shave another $50 off the price of a typical call center desktop, and probably more than that with the way people tend to break their $100 headsets.
Does anyone know if this is possible?
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
That's not "the Microsoft way", it's "the Apple way". A huge part of their early success had to do with widespread hardware donations to schools. They realized that what people learn on is what people later purchase. Did they conquer the world (and Micrsoft)? No, but they made a big enough splash that the ripples persist to this day.
Actually, having a machine that *isn't* a desktop is much better. What you want is an interface specialized to the task, without any of the distractions. Using a desktop operating system for a call center (or a point-of-sale terminal, or a number of similar applications) is like trying to dial a telephone with a GUI (go to File, then "Make call...", then click on the digits, click Okay...). Linux is ideal for this situation, because you can provide only a custom interface on the front end, and manage the machines entirely remotely.
Every single one of them, White, Indian, or Pakistani is dumb as a box of rocks. They don't even know their own product! They'll spend 8 days between putting you on hold and telling you they'll call back in 30 minutes, while in the meantime you painstakingly find the correct answer on their piss-fucking poor search engine on the eSupport site.
Good god you have hit a nerve with me. My firm has bought about $3 million worth of CA products, soup to nuts, in the last few years. Every single fucking product has major implementation issues. If bullshit patch levels and a zillion different configuration files and utilities were what I wanted, I could get it from Linux for free.
PATCH LEVEL MY RED ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My dad took me over to his friend's house yesterday, because his friend was unsatisfied with his website. I got hired to redo it from scratch. After discussing how he wanted it, I somehow segued into open source software. My dad was complaining about his old computer and need for more storage space. I mentioned he could get a new computer off walmart.com for only $199. They were both shocked. I looked it up at wamart.com for them, and then the german (my dad's friend) pulled out his credit card and insisted I order one with his card to solve my dad's computer problems. He also wanted me to help him install linux on one of his computers, since he was frustrated he couldn't install windows XP on both (the install CD wouldn't let him). If he likes it he might install it on the other one, too. He kept saying "You can be free from Microsoft Windows??!!"
This is already the situation in Thailand. Most of the local makers are competing so heavily on price that Windows is the option. Liberta computers has their own version of Linux, in fact, standard on every computer. Fully 70% of the computers in any department store run some version of Linux, with the others having WinXP on a "30 day trial."
Put identity in the browser.
Yup. Its just a gimpy little application that can run a simple script, reading and writing data from/to a backend database. I used to test call center software about five years ago. It could have run on anything; they did in fact originally start off on Solaris, then transitioned it to Windows. The application itself was so tiny (And crappy, frankly) it could have run on CP/M and been fully functional.