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Tecmo Talk Dead Or Alive, Ninja Gaiden

Thanks to Gamers.com for posting two in-depth interviews with Team Ninja head Tomonobu Itagaki about his Xbox-exclusive titles, one discussing Dead Or Alive Online, and the other regarding the forthcoming Ninja Gaiden. Discussing other products, Itagaki tries to claim that "..the female designers came up with more radical, more sexy [swimsuit] designs than the male designers" for Dead Or Alive:Xtreme Beach Volleyball, but then admits that the super-risque Venus swimsuit was his own creation, and stirs up trouble trashing substandard Xbox ports: "To be honest, I'm sick and tired of all these recent cheap multi-platform games. They take data coded for low-end machines, sprinkle a bit of anti-aliasing on top, and try to pass the thing off as an Xbox game. I would never do that kind of work, at least."

28 comments

  1. Trashy games for a trashy console by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How innovative. The guy's using sex appeal to lure in gamers. And, of course, the game stinks.

    Why do I say it stinks: Whats better?
    1: Playing a game by yourself watching animated chicks play Semi-XXX volleyball or
    2: Actually play along with REAL chicks and try keep one

    Anyways, it's summer. If you're playing games that simulate a summer game, you're really a loser.

    Yeah, this is a troll. Just as much as the game BMX-XXX was too. Think about it.

    --
    1. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by leviramsey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Despite being a troll, a lot of great points are raised in Creepy Crawler's post. Far too many games are just "Let's take a crappy game and tack on enough sex that hormonally crazed teenage boys will buy it in hordes."

      This is not to say that games with a sex component are ipso facto bad, but that you can't cover up for a lack of quality in the underlying game with sex. Now, if you've got quality, then sex is the icing on the cake.

      All this brings to mind, though, the question of why you'd amp up the sex quotient on an XBox game... it's not like those controllers are really going to allow one-handed play!

    2. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      Well, it's either sex or violence. Both is "preferred" by game manufacturers.

      Look at unreal tournament. The blood is just soo fakey looking, but they still add it. Turn on moregore mutator, and it just becomes comical.

      And you have to have the "sexual" element. Usually game manufacturers aim for "Jerry Springer Sexual" type. Instead they could aim for a elegant sexual appeal

      Still, sex or violence does NOT make a game. The game MUST be fun, then add eye-candy. The guy in charge of many nintendo projects has the right idea.

      And as a last statement: I place a 10 karma point bet that within 2 months, this BeachBimbo game will have a nude code found. Then sales will spike yet again.

      --
    3. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by simoniker · · Score: 1

      I actually have to stick up for DoA:Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Have any of you guys actually played it?

      So sure, it's a little on the voyeuristic side. But I find the volleyball itself pretty addictive, the casino mini-games _really_ addictive, and the 'dating game' side of things (deciding which girls to give presents to, and which girls to court as your volleyball partner) kinda neat. Plus, collecting things is always a good gameplay spur, and there's a whole bunch of crazed things to collect, from, yes, swimsuits, all the way to prototype Xbox consoles, videos of previous Team Ninja titles, and more.

      Oddly, when I showed it to a bunch of my friends recently, everyone was fascinated, gender notwithstanding. There's something about its extreme quirkiness that transcends crass.

      But, uhm, YMMV. Definitely, YMMV. :) And Creepy Crawler, there's no nude cheat, but there is a nude hack which requires you to have modded your Xbox.

    4. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by unclethursday · · Score: 1
      I actually have to stick up for DoA:Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Have any of you guys actually played it?

      Yep, and it licks an arse.

      The volleyball aspect can be played with one hand, since the computer will pretty much move the players into position for you (and I'm sure many a teenage boy has played this one handed...).

      The poolside aspect is simply to oogle at the pretty polygonal women. I will, however, admit that the hair on the girls is quite possibly the best hair I've ever seen in an video game.

      Honestly, the casino is the best gameplay part...but what fun is playing 1 player blackjack? Or 1 player video poker? The only time you even see other characters attempt to play the casino games is roulette.

      The game sucks, plain and simple. It sold on sex appeal and nothing else...hence the steep drop off in sales after week one.

      Thursdæ

    5. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Pretty easy to mod me down. Why dont you refute my points instead?

      --
    6. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by simoniker · · Score: 1

      Actually, I admit I might have been annoyed if I'd paid full-price for it - I picked it up recently when it had gone down to $30, and that seemed fairer for a title that's pretty much an acquired taste :P

    7. Re:Trashy games for a trashy console by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      err, because you didnt make any points to refute?

      You made the standard, done-to-death association between playing games that simulate sporting activities and being a loser. How innovative.

      Oh, and great 'point' on the "whats better?" question. Thats some quite amazing logic there. You're pretty much missing the whole point of playing computer games to begin with, which is obviously doing things that you might not be able to do in real life, but thats okay, you've already described the Xbox as 'trashy', so the fact that you are just trolling has already been established.

      And then you make mention both DOAX and BMX XXX in the same comment, which are two completely different styles of game. DOAX is probably the first true foray of the 'Dating Simulator' into the western market AFAIK, while BMX XXX is a pathetic BMX simulator, where they forgot to include code for proper bike control and collision detection, and instead spent their time making links to the stripper videos included with the game.

      And like most non-mainstream games, DOAX is a very accuired taste, so naturally YMMV. But of course it's still okay to call people losers if they like it, and it's definitely safe to do that, because it's got semi-naked women in it, so everyone who hasn't played the game will agree with you. For what the game is, from a western point of view, it's very innovative. I'll stand corrected, but I'm not sure if there have been any other honest attempts to introduce this type of game into the western market.

      Using a beach setting gives the combination of being able to show off the graphics engine to a great degree with the sand, water, environment and obviously character graphics, even more so than was possible with DOA3, and using volleyball means that they can include a simple, straight-forward, easy to control game that won't instantly put people off with any over-complication or difficult controls, so they can get into the game and see what they think. To be honest, I think the only thing the game is missing is a secondary game that shows a little more depth, and I think that soccer/football would have done nicely.

  2. Polygonal fantasies by lidocaineus · · Score: 1

    It's weird; I don't understand the sex appeal these games have. I've been a fan of Tecmo for a long time (Ninja Gaiden, Tecmo Bowl, Dead or Alive on the Saturn, etc), but this whole Beach Volleyball craze strikes me as kitchy at best, or another indication of the woeful state games have fallen into (and society as an extension, but that's a bit dramatic :P ) at worst.

    Can someone who really finds these cartoon women sexy please enlighten me? I've approached this in the past with an open mind, and have always come away completely baffled.

    1. Re:Polygonal fantasies by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about having a fetish? Animation can do things that real cannot, and some guys (girls?) get off on it.

      It's the same way some people get off on B,D,S,M panty hose, foot, suffocation..etc. Also, considering that many "children" sexualities are illegal but animated children are excepted by that rule. That makes for some mighty nasty legal loopholes.

      I told somebody about that, and they liked those pictures. Why? Because they can imagine partially being there and doing things to "her".

      I prefer a real woman.

      --
    2. Re:Polygonal fantasies by lidocaineus · · Score: 1

      While I understand it if it were a fetish, it is far too widespread to be confined to any small group of people. It's like saying being attracted to redheads is a fetish.

      I guess in that sense I answered my own question; it's a preference. Dumb IMO, but then again, I like redheads and many find that equally dumb.

  3. Soon to come game: by DumbWhiteGuy777 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ninja Gaiden volleyball!

    "OMG did u c the katanas on that 1!!"

  4. Wonderful... by unclethursday · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'd care more of what Itagaki had to say if his games had more to them than just gorgeous graphics.

    All the Dead or Alive games pretty much suck in comparrison to other fighting games (although, ironically, it is probably the best fighter on the Xbox...but considering the compeition (Kabuki Warriors, Tao Feng, Kakuto Chojin, etc.), that isn't saying much). DoAXBV had no gameplay to it, just graphics of girls in skimpy bikinis.

    Taking DoA online isn't going to suddenly make it a better fighter.

    I fear for Ninja Gaiden, myself. I loved the Ninja Gaiden series on the NES, and I hate to think of how horribly Team "All Graphics, No Gameplay" Ninja will destroy this once proud franchise. The game looks spectacular, as all Team Ninja games do; but I fear it will have little to no gameplay, as all Team Ninja games do.

    Thursdæ

  5. He's got one thing right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "To be honest, I'm sick and tired of all these recent cheap multi-platform games. They take data coded for low-end machines, sprinkle a bit of anti-aliasing on top, and try to pass the thing off as an Xbox game. I would never do that kind of work, at least."
    He's right. He codes for a high-end machine, builds anti-aliasing in from the get-go and tries to pass that off as an Xbox game.

  6. I knew it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I happened to read a forum for DOA:VB and pretty much confirmed my suspicion of that game. They got board of it really quick, and confirmed that the re-playability was quite low.

    Makes sense, for a game that originally was going to just be a computer generated movie the volleyball part was tacked on so that they could sell it as a game.

    I find this part funny:
    "To be honest, I'm sick and tired of all these recent cheap multi-platform games. They take data coded for low-end machines, sprinkle a bit of anti-aliasing on top, and try to pass the thing off as an Xbox game"

    Yet you seem to have no problem doing this to YOUR old saturn/ps1 and dreamcast/ps2 games? From the sounds of the interview besides probably reusing and updating a game coded for other platforms, all they are doing is adding online support and enchanting the graphics.

    I also find it funny that the creator of the DOA girls is protective of "his girls" and doesn't like the nude patches/pics/etc, yet the hypocrite has no problem with dressing them up in skimpy outfits and using the sex sells pitch.

    1. Re:I knew it.... by unclethursday · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I also find it funny that the creator of the DOA girls is protective of "his girls" and doesn't like the nude patches/pics/etc, yet the hypocrite has no problem with dressing them up in skimpy outfits and using the sex sells pitch.

      Kind of like a father who pays for his daughter's breast enhancement surgery and then wants to see the final results, eh?

      Thursdæ

    2. Re:I knew it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They got board of it really quick

      I got board really quick too. But after 30 minutes, I just got bored and turned it off.

  7. DOA series will be moot... by jromz03 · · Score: 0

    ... Once Soul Calibur 2 is released on the Xbox. I still play the Dreamcast version from time to time and I'm really excited about SC2. Of course in the end sales matter, and sex sells even better these days.

  8. *eyeroll* by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Discussing other products, Itagaki tries to claim that "..the female designers came up with more radical, more sexy [swimsuit] designs than the male designers""

    And this is important because...? So that we know he practices Affirmative Action while making cheesecake? Or is it simply showing just where the team's priorities lie when making a game?

    "for Dead Or Alive:Xtreme Beach Volleyball, but then admits that the super-risque Venus swimsuit was his own creation,"

    Personally, I wouldn't be proud of that. I think the word "silly" is more fitting here than "risque."

    "and stirs up trouble trashing substandard Xbox ports: "To be honest, I'm sick and tired of all these recent cheap multi-platform games. They take data coded for low-end machines, sprinkle a bit of anti-aliasing on top, and try to pass the thing off as an Xbox game. I would never do that kind of work, at least.""

    Yeah, what he does is completely different. He calls them Xbox exclusives instead.

  9. Never on nintendo by techstar25 · · Score: 1

    I think it's a shame that Ninja Gaiden will likely never be released for Gamecube. Team Ninja wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Nintendo and the NES. But the again, you could say for most game companies in existance today. Thanks for nothin' Team Ninja!

    To this day, I still own an NES and the three Ninja Gaiden games, so I can play them on their native system.

    1. Re:Never on nintendo by scot4875 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Even worse, is that way back (if memory serves, it was before the 'Cube and XBox even came out), Tecmo had a poll about "What system would you like to see the new Ninja Gaiden on?"

      The Gamecube ran away with the votes. PS2 had about 1/2 as many, followed by the GBA. The XBox had roughly 1% of the votes.

      Gee, Tecmo, thanks for respecting your fans' opinions after taking the trouble to *ask*.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
  10. The important question... by Decaffeinated+Jedi · · Score: 1
    Where, oh where, is a revival of Tecmo's classic American football series? If they could reproduce the simple arcade approach and spot-on gameplay of the original Tecmo Bowl games, it might actually challenge the dominance of more complicated football sims like the Madden series.

    DecafJedi

    --
    DecafJedi
    my weblog: apropos of something
    1. Re:The important question... by Cruel+Angel · · Score: 1
      I remember the origional techmo bowl. All nighters, leagues, best stat competitions, and the whole lat are mixed in with my momories of that game. Graphics were terrible compared to todays, but what do yo expect from 8 bit? I really don't know what about the gameplay made that game so addictive, but it sure wasnt the sound or graphics.

      some game companies have gotten lost. Content is dropping, while the games become more and more visually interesting. Play them once, and never again. It's like the movie industry. A few realy interesting movies, that maybe don't look as good, and a whole bunch of movies with hardcore FX, but the closest thing you can find to a plot is the plot holes.

      I guess I'm ranting about the quality of the entertainment industry in general. Looks arent everything. Frame-rate isnt the goal. They help, but they cant make a bad game good. Think of it like a band. The lead singer could be the hottest looking thing alive, but if they suck, they suck

      --
      Two Rules For Success:
      1) Never tell people everything you know.
  11. He's running scared by M3wThr33 · · Score: 1

    For as much as XBox owners talk about DOA3 I see it lacking. The moves feel predetermined and it's more about presentation than skill or work.

    Seeing CvS2 on the XBox was also a disappointment with the laggy online fights and horrible controls.

    You want gaming bliss? Import Soul Calibur 2 for the GameCube and get a Hori pad for it. Now THAT'S a real fighting game.

  12. Tecmo conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sometimes I wonder if Tecmo is being paid by a secret Microsoft slush fund...I know they like developing for the Xbox over PS2 (they also made disparaging comments about the PS2 vs. Dreamcast).

    But they can't be sticking to Xbox this hard. They are gonna be taking a bath...MS has to prop up their developers because the box doesn't sell shit. The Japanese game companies see Tecmo as a betrayer. What's going on here?

  13. Principles are what matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....I would never do that kind of work, at least

    But you would use sex to sell a sub-standard fighting or volleyball game. Principles are very important in the gaming industry.

  14. FANBOY DENIED! by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1
    First of all, having played quite a bit of fighters myself (Everything from Virtual Fighter to Capcom vs. SNK 2), I would have to say that Dead or Alive has to be one of my favorites.

    It's not the deepest game ever, but damnit, it's easy to pick up and play and do somewhat well at (there is stil room at the top, a good player will still beat out a bad player 9 times out of 10). It's one of the three games we play in our dorm room (the other two being Halo and Midnight Club 2). And my roomates think that the bounciness is actually quite ridicioulous. We play it on its merits as a fighting game alone.

    And if you would read reviews (IGN) once in a while, DOA EXB actually had a pretty deep volleyball system and surpassed expectations of just being an oggle-fest.

    Mod me down if you must, but consider that I am recovered Gamecube fanboy who now tries to make unbiased decisions about games. Your arguments are classic anti-xbox fanboy rants. Play the games with an open mind before you jump to conclusions. Jeez' fanboys are like maggots crawling out of the woodwork all over the place.

    As for this, I am EXTREMELY excited about being able to play DOA2 online, and especially try out the DOA for Saturn I never was able to play. And Ninja Gaiden looks kick ass, and if the gameplay is as good as the previews make it out to be, we could have a real winner on our hands.

    --
    I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    1. Re:FANBOY DENIED! by unclethursday · · Score: 1
      First of all, having played quite a bit of fighters myself (Everything from Virtual Fighter to Capcom vs. SNK 2), I would have to say that Dead or Alive has to be one of my favorites.

      And having played fighting games since the original Fighting Street (Street Fighter I), as well as older side scrolling games such as Final Fight and Double Dragon (all in the arcades) I can be fairly sure of myself when I say that the DoA series is a mediocre fighter, at best. It is easy to jump in and play, yes, but the engine itself is mediocre in everything but the graphics department.

      Remember, the orignial DoA wasn't marketed as 'the best fighter' around...it was marketed (and the series still is marketed) as 'the best LOOKING fighter'.

      We play it on its merits as a fighting game alone.

      Obviously our standards differ. The DoA series has very little merit to myself as a fighter. I'd much rather play Soul Edge/Blade/Calibur and Virtua Fighter, and even games like Marvel vs. Capcom and Capcom vs. SNK over the DoA games.

      And if you would read reviews (IGN) once in a while, DOA EXB actually had a pretty deep volleyball system and surpassed expectations of just being an oggle-fest.

      First of all, I WRITE reviews. I think I know what I am talking about. Second of all, IGN just sucks. The amount of rampant fanboi-ism that goes on on each of their console specific parts is nausea inducing. When we add in how often they hype a game, or rag on a game, only to give a review that completely contradicts what they were saying before, and my ability to trust them falls to about as far as I can throw them. Buildings are heavy, so I can't throw them far.

      And I'd hardly call a volleyball system where the computer moves your character into place to set/spike the ball for you a 'deep volleyball game'. The 'game' was a tech demo of the DoA 4 engine, with a few things thrown on top to make it appear to be worth spending money on it. The casino aspect ended up being the most fun part of the game.

      Your arguments are classic anti-xbox fanboy rants.

      Funny, I thought I was saying that Team Ninja focuses more on graphics than gameplay. Hardly anything to do with the Xbox, since even on the Saturn, PSOne, Dreamcast and PS2 Team Ninja has always been the same. In fact, the only mention of the Xbox in the post was to say how horrid the fighting games released exclusively on it have been.

      Unless, of course, you think Kabuki Warriors, Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus, and Kakuto Chojin are excellent fighters in their own right. They aren't, and I think even the Holy Grail of Review Sites (IGN according to too many, never will understand why people actually pay for their drivel) agrees with me on these games.

      Between those fighters, even I'd choose DoA 3 on the basis of its merits as a fighting game.

      Jeez' fanboys are like maggots crawling out of the woodwork all over the place.

      As is obvious by your defending of the DoA series and Team Ninja. You realize that by rabidly defending the series, you are painting yourself into that fanboi picture. The "You hate the series I love so you must be a fanboi and I can't be" place you seem to be in is meerly just the denial of fanboi-ism.

      But, that's ok. I happen to think Team Ninja sucks at making games, but does great at making gorgeous graphics. You actually like their games. Fine. To each his own.

      But when you start spouting off like some rabid lunatic for me to read reviews from IGN about the games just to make me see your point