TRON: The Unknown Open-Source?

jordandeamattson writes "Over on CNN there is a very interesting article about Tron, an open-source real-time operating system from Japan first developed and distributed in the early 1980s. The claim is that it is more widely distributed than Windows (in some 3 billion devices world-wide), that the developer (Ken Sakamura, a University professor) would be worth mucho if he had just charged for it, and that Microsoft/U.S. goverment used trade rules (Super 301) to block it adoption by schools in Japan. Check it out for an interesting read and a 'what might have been ...'" (Here's a previous mention of Tron from March about MontaVista's work to combine it with Linux.)

Comments

First Post

[UltimateZer0]

Tron is an OS? I thought Tron was a simple program, written only to destroy the MCP.

Home page

[makapuf]

Sure, there's google, but there seems to be the TRON OS home page, in english.

Besides, what devices run than OS ? anyone know ?

Re:Home page

[NuMessiah]

OK, but there is more interesting info at:

TRON Project Information

and

TRON Web

also in english :)

bb4now,
PMC

Re:Home page

[torpor]

Pretty much any Japanese electronic musical instrument maker has used TRON. Yamaha keyboards run it, or derivatives of it, I've been told. That will change now though, with Yamaha's recent announcement that they'll be using Linux.

I've followed TRON since I was a kid hacker in the early 80's, and have watched its use in the industry with eager anticipation of the day it becomes more widely known about in the tech sector.

When Linux came into existence (I've been a Linux user since *day one* of its existence), I decided I need not stay current with TRON, which is a shame because I think a lot of the goals of TRON (E-TRON, actually, its supposed to be called) are achievable right now with Linux in the embedded world.

If ever there was proof needed of just how destructive Microsoft has been for the computer industry, it is the fact that hardly anyone in the Western Tech sector (sillicon valley) knows about TRON and what this project was supposed to achieve... and, actually, still is capable of achieving... The project is based around shared source, completely open amongst competing hardware manufacturers.

Embedded kernels running in every electronic device known to man, capable of talking to each other discretely and without human interaction, to create a sort of 'Boewulf cluster' of embedded systems capable of sharing loads and processing power.

TRON was a kick ass project. And everything we've wanted to do with TRON, we can now do with Linux.

Re:Home page

[torpor]

Sorry, but no. There are *thousands* of reasons we can't do with Windows what we can do with Linux.

Those thousands of reasons are called "lines of code". The code for Microsoft Windows will never be available - and for this reason alone, we can never do with Windows what we can do with TRON. Or Linux.

I'm a hardware manufacturer.

I want to run a decent operating system on hardware CPU xxx_yyy. CPU xxx_yyy is pretty important to me: as a hardware manufacturer, for hardware manufacturer reasons.

I can: a) see if Microsoft Windows CE supports it, and if not either give up and use the CPU they want me to use or pay thousands for them to support my xxx_yyy CPU, or b) port Linux to it myself freely in a couple of days.

No comparison. We can not do with Windows today what we have been able to do with TRON for 20 years.

And, FYI, you've got TRON running in your home, somewhere, if you're an average American consumer with credit cards that you use. Every American uses TRON, somehow, at least 2 or 3 times a day.

Without even knowing it.

Re:Home page

[doctor_no]

TRON today basically has a monopoly on most embedded devices in the world; if you you've used a cell phone, digital camera, driven a car, opened a fridge, played a movie on your VCD/DVD player, turned on your TV, you've likely used TRON in one form or another.

In fact the TRON engine standards group(T-Engine) has more than 100 members worldwide including Fujitsu, Fuji Electric, Hitachi, Kyocera, Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, MIPS, NEC, NTT, NTT DATA, NTT DoCoMo, RSA Security, Samsung Advanced Institute of Technology, Sony, Sharp, Toshiba, Yamaha, Yazaki, and Yokogawa Digital Computer Corp, Toyota, Honda, etc.

Until Linux becomes a fully real-time OS it's unlikely that it'll replace TRON out of the embedded market.

PR0N

[GillBates0]

When it was first revealed in 1984, TRON, which can be modified for use on personal computers, was hailed in Japan as a homemade software which could break the dominance of Microsoft and free Japanese computer firms from the burden of paying for the basic software.

First revealed in 1984, PR0N, which can be modified for use on personal computers, was hailed in Japan as a homemade software which could break the dominance of Playboy and Hustler and free Japanese masturbators from the burden of paying for the basic software.

The Best Thing About Tron...

[pazu13]

Is that instead of just deleting old programs, you can throw frisbees at them and they'll disappear. For once, you'll be able to have as much fun deleting files as Strong Bad[homestarrunner.com].

more like Losing Nemo

[yerricde]

Yes we may be a heartless, monopolistic company

Tell me about it.

but we're not that other heartless monopolistic company who doesn't like open source.

Microsoft uses open-source software in its Services For UNIX product. Many of its userland network programs (ping, ftp, etc) are based on those from BSD. But then again, Microsoft put a provision into the license for its C library banning linking with copylefted code, even where the copylefted code's license would otherwise allow it (e.g. "operating system" exception in the GNU GPL), so I guess you're right.

We at Disney love open source.

Then why hasn't Disney released Mickey Mouse as open source? Nine out of ten copyright scholars agree that it's time for the company to move on to a new cash cow.

God bless you, Mr. Sakamura.

[NoData]

Fromt the article:

"It's not good to charge people for using something which is like a social infrastructure. It also inhibits the development of the computer industry. The very basic infrastructure should be free," he said.

"But Mr Gates is free to do whatever he wants, as we live in a world of capitalism."


A man who's got it right.
Why can't we (in the western world) get this type of soft-spoken wisdom to be the face of OSS, and not the curmudgeonly off-putting geekazoidness of RMS?

if TRON is anything like Japanese cars..

[Trigun]

I can get a 14 foot spoiler and Type R stickers for my operating system!

Good to see...

[adamofgreyskull]

I'm glad that this analogy has been represented in a mainstream news-source:

That means the codes making up a program can be obtained free of charge, allowing engineers to modify it according to their needs, like a chef improvising on an original recipe.

This and the whole article's take on "open source" is helpful to the cause by making people understand in their own terms What It's All About(TM). :o)

Unknown?

[femto]

How can TRON be unknown when it running on 60% of the world's microprocessors? (according to the article). Someone knew about it. One could accuse it of not being publicised, but I wouldn't put it in the unknown class.

In actual fact, TRON is one of the standards of the embedded world and most students should hear about it in any embedded/microprocessor course they do.

Screenshots for Desktop TRON be here

[RevAaron]

http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/btronproducts.html

enjoy...

MICROSOFT used trade rules?

[ShinmaWa]

Microsoft/U.S. goverment used trade rules

Ummmmm... WTF?

The article made no mention that Microsoft did anything whatsoever to block TRON using trade rules or anything else for that matter. There are only three mentions of Microsoft in the article.

1. having developed an operating system that is more widely used than even Microsoft Corp's Windows
2. What sets the two systems apart -- and the fortunes of Sakamura and Gates -- is that while Windows must be bought from Microsoft, TRON is distributed free of charge
3. When it was first revealed in 1984, TRON, which can be modified for use on personal computers, was hailed in Japan as a homemade software which could break the dominance of Microsoft and free Japanese computer firms from the burden of paying for the basic software

I'm not sure of how much dominance Microsoft had in 1984!! These were the days of the Commodore 64 and Apple ][. The IBM compatible wasn't a market leader at the time -- let alone Microsoft. Microsoft didn't have the money nor the clout to block anything.