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Panther's TextEdit to Open MS Word Files
2muchcoffeeman writes "Further signs that Jobs and Gates probably won't be vacationing together anytime soon: New Damage has what looks to be screenshot proof of Panther's TextEdit.app opening a Microsoft Word .DOC file. Panther beta users who have tried this report at MacSlash that it works, to a point. So what's next? Is Apple now going to bring back the late, great MacWrite Pro?"
Apple could surely use code from Openoffice.org to create an LGPL component that could do the conversion for them... couldn't they? It would be so much better than firing up Oo.O for a simple Word document.
The problem with any application providing support for MS Office formats is that the format changes from version to version, therefore it is difficult to preserve the content and formatting of documents perfectly. Anybody using OpenOffice.org will notice that formatting done on MS Word is modified slightly when opened in OpenOffice.org - for documents where layouts are more complicated and space matters (e.g. CVs), this causes problems.
If Apple can create a filter that preserves complex formatting, it should be on to a winner for home users. However, I somewhat doubt that Apple can do so, when Microsoft's own versions of Office can't even cope with changes in the file format...
Aren't those the same list of things that if done by Microsoft would have you screaming bloody murder though?
Seriously, this is what I've always hated about both companies. They *need* control over their platform. Apple has a draconian rule over their hardware, and is pushing for more of the same in software. Microsoft will simply crush opposition in software, but is pretty reasonable about hardware (drivers are another issue).
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Again we see the difference between a healthy company where there are alternative platforms and an unhealthy monopoly. The disagreement with tactics is contextual--if Apple had 90%+ of the market they would get DOJ heat as well.
There's nothing wrong with microsoft developing software that competes with existing software. The problems have occurred when microsoft used OS hooks that only they knew about. There is no evidence that apple has done anything like that. In fact, the frameworks used in safari were released, and they are used in Omniweb (still my browser of choice, btw).
Why do Mac users buy MS Office? Because it's good? Nope. So they can open up .doc files made on a PC.
Actually it is good. It does not conform 100% to the apple OSX guidelines, but it is close enough for me. Its also fast and stable.
It is also nice to be able to create documents and share them with those less fortunate (Windows people). There is no spreadsheet program that is near what Excel does.
Openoffice.org is great and all that, but until they can get it to run outside of an X window system, it can't compete with MS Office on the mac.
If Apple wants to kick MS square in the nuts, they need to put out some kind of competitive office suite that opens up, and saves MS office files. It would not surprise me if they did the same thing with OOo as they did with safari. Apple has been burning alot of bridges lately with MS and there is only one left that I can see hat matters any (MS Office)
When did Microsoft ever MAKE money from IE for Mac?
cpeterso
Aren't those the same list of things that if done by Microsoft would have you screaming bloody murder though?
I think you're missing something fairly obvious.
The people who look at Apple's recent efforts and go "Yay!" and the people who look at Microsoft's and go "Boo!" are two completely different sets of people.
Believe it or not, most of the world has no problem with Microsoft's business plan, or Apple's, or most anybody else's. We like getting well-integrated applications for our computers. Some of us think that Apple does that better than Microsoft, others hold the opposite opinion.
None of us are "screaming bloody murder."
Seriously, this is what I've always hated about both companies. They *need* control over their platform. Apple has a draconian rule over their hardware, and is pushing for more of the same in software. Microsoft will simply crush opposition in software, but is pretty reasonable about hardware (drivers are another issue).
To each his own. I've never held it against Cuisinart that I can't use cheaper Hamilton-Beach parts in my food processor. I don't begrudge the fact that I can't buy a Hyundai Town Car. I don't hold it against Apple that I can't call up Bob's Discount Apple Parts and build my own OS X box.
Apple makes a damn solid product, box to bits. Part of the reason they can do this is that they don't need to waste time and money trying to support several thousand incrementally different sound cards, network adapters, modems, video cards, mainboards, etc.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Never. The other stuff aside from Darwin is closed and will likely remain so. They are reimplemented in GNUstep fairly completely today. It isn't just possible, but rather trivial to port from one to the other if that is a design factor.
Darwin, however, is both open source and Free Software.
After all, when they went to BSD, they inherited most all the apps and filters from Linux too.
OS X is based on Rhapsody, which was Openstep 5.0, which was based on OpenStep 4, which was based on Nextstep 3.3, and all but OS X trace their lineage to BSD 4.3 (IIRC). OS X is based off FreeBSD, which too traces its lineage to BSD 4.4. The new Panther is supposedly based off FreeBSD 5.x series, which almost gives me wood. Linux never really gave much to Apple. Apple did, however, port Linux to a great many Macs though, and gave that project to the community.
Apple is indebted to the FSF for its use of GCC, like Next was before it, and generally has played really well with the community in recent years.
I don't think so really. If MS announced that Office was going to support OpenOffice native formats and KOffice formats then would we be upset? Probably not.
The difference is that Apple is supporting more standards and formats, while MS typically tries to force their own standards on you to the exclusion of all others. And when MS does implement other people's standards they typically throw in some proprietary 'feature' that fosters incompatibility.. That's what we scream bloody murder about.
"Belief means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzche, The Anti-Christ, 1889]
Aren't those the same list of things that if done by Microsoft would have you screaming bloody murder though?
No, absolutely not. The things that have bugged me have been:
All that Apple has done is to push standards, make excellent use of open standards and Open Source APIs, and apply a consistent and elegant design aesthetic to their OS and their applications. In short, they have excelled through integrity and hard work. If Apple has an unfair advantage, it is only that they have applied a greater effort than others seem to have the courage to do.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Shoot me if I am being simple minded, but I think this is going to turn into a serious problem.
I think Apple is marginalising itself. The beauty of having Office v.X for the Mac is that I can handle all the files which my PC using friends and collegues send. I can edit them and send them back. (For example using "track changes" in Word.) The question them becomes: Will Apple ever be able to produce its own software which will read MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint files properly (And I mean properly, with no errors - you would be surprised how pissed off people get when there is a slight inconsistency between the platforms), provide the same functionallity as Office and so on and so forth? I somehow doubt it. This is a hard problem. The imperfections of the open source efforts is testimony to this.
I myself use LaTeX when I can since I intend to be able to read my work in 20 years time, but if it turns out that the problems mentioned above start to become real problems, I will probably be forced to switch to a PC and make it dual-boot with Linux. And that really makes me very sad because I like my Mac.
Thats kinda silly-- Apple does control their hardware-- nothing draconian about it.
AS to their software, they are not trying to be the only software provider for their platform-- they spend millions every year building free development tools, and working to get the message out.
They built safari and then released a killer webkit to allow any app builder to easily put a html renderer (or web browser) into thier app. This isn't draconian-- they recognize that there are a lot of apps that could use web or http access conveneintly for unexpected things, and so they provide support for it.
Apple is really kicking ass in developmetn tools-- they aren't top of the line yet, but they have a lot more momentum than even open source ones like eclipse. They want everyone to develop for the mac platform.
The only places where they are competing head to head with third party developers are ones where those developers are working to kill the mac platform.
Premiere on the mac SUCKED and has sucked for years, driving many Mac users to windows. Office is designed to do the same thing.
Thank god apple is finally going after those people who are working to undermine their platform and showing that the best of breed video editing (for instance) is once agian on the mac platform.... and with good reason given the great multimedia platofrm they've built with quicktime and their hardware.
This isn't control-- its support for the platform!
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
I think Jacob Nielsen is the Rush Limbaugh of design: A blowhard with no grasp of the facts.
IF he didn't pretend like his opinions were fact, or in some objective sense true, he wouldn't be as annoying.
Hell, I know people who still think images on webpages are overkill... They're free to design their sites with that in mind if they want... but they don't go telling everyone that theirs is the One True Way.
Nielson is not an authority- he's just opinionated.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
WordPad, bundled with Windows (at least it's in Win2K, I don't have an XP box to check) will open basic Word documents just fine. I'm still waiting for my Panther CD's so I can't check the limits of TextEdit.
So, OS X will now have some basic functionality built into it that Windows does. That's good, but I don't think it's the end of MS Office.
I think that what we're trying to say the difference here is that Apple has been putting out products that are better and the other companies are realizing that they can't compete. Adobe and MS aren't withdrawing Premiere and IE because Apple is doing anything to suppress their ability to develop for the platform. Apple is just making better software, plain and simple. MS drives the competition away by bullying OEMs and closing standards. That's why we scream bloody murder.
Find me in ~/.sig
Aren't those the same list of things that if done by Microsoft would have you screaming bloody murder though?
.doc files? Big deal - a low end program will only attract low end customers. The sort of people who only needed to buy Word because of the number of .doc files they have to read, and that's only because so many other Word users don't know better than to send text files as .doc attachemts to emails. This market should never have existed anyway.
Not at all - Apple wins customers by making products which are better (or better value) than the competitor's offering.
Yes, iMovie is (effectively) free, and perhaps that discourages the light users from buying high-end packages from third parties. But that's obviously not Adobe's core market, and when you want to move to a more advanced program you can freely choose between Final Cut or Premiere, and it's a level playing field. That's perfectly fair competition.
The fact that Adobe have decided they can't compete with Final Cut is no indication of foul play.
Microsoft win customers by making the competitor's product unviable. (e.g. bringing up bogus error messages to incite FUD, or making their own products difficult (or impossible) to uninstall, or strongarming OEMs into contracts which bias the market in Microsoft's favour.)
I think a lot of Microsoft's Mac products are better than their PC equivalents: on windows, they can rely on their monopoly to get sales; on the Mac they actually need to make a superior program, because there's no other reason to use it by default.
So Apple are making a simple editor which can read
Now, I'm sure that TextEdit won't compete with the features of Word, and the people who actually need that program can quite easily buy and install it. Apple are not blocking those potential customers from spending their money on Microsoft.
Yes, iMovie is (effectively) free, and perhaps that discourages the light users from buying high-end packages from third parties.
I can't imagine Joe Consumer dropping several thousand on a pro-level video app just to edit his vacation movies, can you?
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
NSText already supports RTF
.doc files
- (BOOL)writeRTFDToFile:(NSString *)path atomically:(BOOL)flag;
- (BOOL)readRTFDFromFile:(NSString *)path;
It's not a lot more esoteric to add support for
There's one way of finding out.
Anyone with access to Panther want to run class-dump on TextEdit and see what's in it?