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Warp Pipe Project - GameCube Online

Posted by simoniker on from the console-hack-du-jour dept.

chadlnx writes "The Warp Pipe Project, an open source project to bring LAN-based GameCube games online, recently released a specification detailing how GameCubes communicate over a network. The Warp Pipe Project is aggressively seeking out developers who would be interested in this project through its SourceForge project page."

37 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Increased interest... by Endareth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Along with dropping prices, this sort of info can really incline people to getting a GameCube! /me digs around in his pocket for some spare change :-)

    --
    Disclaimer: The above comment was made while under the influence of too much coding and not enough sleep.
    1. Re:Increased interest... by Troed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I love the Gamecube. It has _fun_ games that focus on playability more than cool graphics or "cool looking characters" or something teenagers like to talk about.

      Metroid Prime. Zelda : Wind Waker. Resident Evil:remake and Zero.

      You're really missing out on something if you're not playing those games.

      --
      it's in my head
    2. Re:Increased interest... by 13Echo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sony and Microsoft *killed them*? Are you nuts? XBox's only major seller has been Halo. The DOA games likely come in second place along with sports titles. Live! kits are selling, but little else is.

      If you don't believe me, read this article at GAF. I could list numerous others as well with *real* numbers and not some hearsay from trolls.

      I'm not trying to diss Microsoft or anything, but these rumors of Nintendo getting slaughtered are getting rediculous. Nintendo is still up on worldwide console sales by 2 million units over the XBox. And while Microsoft may *barely* be pushing second place in system sales in the USA, they're hurting elsewhere, especially Japan. Game to system ratios are terrible, even at that. What good does it do to sell consoles if the games aren't selling?

      Nintendo already has its fanbase and it's consistently pulling profits year after year. What's the problem here? Do you really think that they need to be number one in console sales to be successful? The GBA is still outselling the PS2, and though it's not a fair comparision, it's still profiatable. Gamecube has a pretty good library of excellent games, and though the quantity isn't as large as the older PS2's library, the games sell well and the fans seem to like them.

      Nintendo *IS* listening to their fans. They're giving us the games we want. They want new games based on the old franchises. Metroid was on hiatus for years, but Prime is a fabulous game. People want Zelda. Many of us were wowed by Eternal Darkness. Metal Gear: Twin Snakes looks like it's going to be a groundbreaking remake. F-Zero is already pulling in great scores by Famitsu and other mags. Your comments are like saying that gamers don't want "Final Fantasy 52" or some other popular franchise. Speaking of which, there's no doubt that a lot of Square fans will pick up a Gamecube for Crystal Chronicles. The titles that you think have been "milked" are Nintendo's exclusives. They are what makes a Nintendo system.

      So what's the problem here? Are they "failing" because they haven't released more network-based titles for you? Can you give any really good reasons why they aren't listening to you?

  2. They should use OS/2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    And call it the OS/2 Warp Pipe Project.

    1. Re:They should use OS/2 by MadBiologist · · Score: 2, Funny

      How bout the OS/2 Warp Pipe Dream Project?

      --
      'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?'
  3. crap by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Its exactly what nintendo wants (network without having to risk dollars to in), but being Nintendo, I can't imagine them being friendly to this group.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
    1. Re:crap by duffhuff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They may go after these guys, but I doubt it. Remember that Gamespy mod for Halo which allowed internet play (albiet slowly)?. Microsoft didn't touch those guys (to my knowledge). While what these guys are doing isn't quite as simple as a firewall hack, I don't see how Nintendo can do anything about it. Unless, that is, they use some "magic" encryption on their connection...

    2. Re:crap by ecchi_0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      According to the article, they use Universal Plug and Play to detect other gamecubes on the network. This is hard to route over the internet, but if they figure out a way to do it I don't think there is anything stopping them from releasing it.

    3. Re:crap by ergonal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't MSN Messenger use UPnP to directly connect to people? (ie. to transfer files, etc)

    4. Re:crap by arivanov · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You cannot route it period. It is multicast. 239.x.x.x. If it had a TTL of more then 1 you could pass it across a hop with multicast routing configured.

      This leaves two alternatives:

      1. Mangle packets and alter TTL and have a working multicast network (Yeah... in my dreams).

      2. Bridge.

      Option 2 should just work (TM).

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    5. Re:crap by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Didn't a company once create software called "Kali" (or similar) that did this, but with IPX packets?

      Back in the early-to-mid-90's, nearly all online games used IPX for multiplayer (it was popular on corporate LANs at the time, apparently), so this Kali software would basically create IPX tunnels over the Internet, with a central registry, and even a chat system, so people could get together and play IPX-only games like Doom and Descent over the net.

      I remember using it for a while; it was damn clever. I suppose the same thing can be done to emulate Layer 2 networks across the net. (not necessarily tunnels, but star-topology.. with one of the machines acting like a "switch" and the others as end-stations on that "switch") It'd be interesting to see what an implementation of this would look like.

      Hell, maybe Kali actually DID emulate layer 2 networks, and let IPX packets travel over this emulated network. Anyone have insider-info on how Kali worked?

  4. God bless you dorms by KU_Fletch · · Score: 3, Informative

    What should be really interesting will be if our dorm hookup (which already recognizes everybody in the building as being on the same LAN) works with the Gamecube LAN setup. It didn't work with X-Box as we had hoped, but with a little bit of X-Box piping help, we had some great inter-room/floor fights in Halo. The thought of doing the same with Mario Kart fills me with oh so much glee.

    --
    It's not stupid. It's advanced.
    1. Re:God bless you dorms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      dorms are not for video games, they are for drinking like hobos and fucking like rabbits.. now, get to it

  5. Warp Pipe? by cliffy2000 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Didn't Tommy Chong (of "Cheech and Chong" and "That 70s Show" fame) just get arrested for selling those?

  6. Cool logo! by jared_hanson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Man, that is a cool logo: the eternet plug as the hole in a Mario pipe. More open source projects need good designers to come up with eye catching logos like this. This may get modded off-topic, but oh well, I've got karma to burn. I went to the site and said, "Damn, that is cool." Anyone else agree?

    --
    -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
    1. Re:Cool logo! by paul248 · · Score: 2, Funny

      So that explains why you can't go down some of the pipes in Super Mario Bros. I guess you need to get the RJ45 flower first.

    2. Re:Cool logo! by Osty · · Score: 2, Funny

      More open source projects need good designers to come up with eye catching logos like this.

      Because as we all know, the key to success is having a good graphic designer on your team.

  7. Hope it doesnt turn out like... by amishgeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hope it doesnt turn out like Loki... The open source community can sure do a lot for the Console gaming industry. But if I buy a game cube, will this be around to produce games worthy of playing?

    1. Re:Hope it doesnt turn out like... by ctid · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think the point here is to allow two gamecubes that are remote from each other to play existing networked games together. So instead of only being able to play WarBlaster III with your friend if you go over to his house, you could set it up so that you could play from your own homes.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  8. Gamer's Internet Tunnel by paul248 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found this Gamer's Internet Tunnel program a while back when attempting to play Starcraft without going through battle.net:

    http://www.morpheussoftware.net/git/

    It listens for almost any kind of traffic on a network, and relays it over TCP or UDP to another network, allowing LAN-only games to be played across the Internet. It might even work with GameCubes if you put a PC on the same LAN as one or more of them.

    1. Re:Gamer's Internet Tunnel by chadlnx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We tried this application, but as you can tell from the specification it does not work. A series of limitations are imposed by the fact that all the UPNP packets have a TTL value of one. Therefore cannot be tunneled. Also, keep in mind that all the UPNP packets have internal IP address information in them and need to be either translated or there needs to be a work around when it comes to authenticating over UPNP.

    2. Re:Gamer's Internet Tunnel by chadlnx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the application would have to accept gamecube packets, make a new packet with a larger TTL, send to another gc-app to strip away the outer packet and forward the original packet to the gamecube. Is this (or something similar) what the project would be doing? Essentially, if there is no other way of authenticating or bypassing UPNP, you are right on the money. This doesn't seem to be a very sleek and fast way of doing things, but keep in mind that UPNP authentication is a VERY small part of the process. The rest of the UDP packets (the raw game data) have TTL values of 255. They can be easily tunneled, forwarded, etc. They could also be converted into a series of TCP socket streams over the net. I saw this open source (I think it was in JAVA) Quake tunnel program which opened 30 sockets and kept sending TCP packets via one of the random sockets. The theory behind this was that the unused connections wouldn't take up any resources. The program is very fast and the solution works very well. Again, the UPNP authentication is the problem. Everything after that is much more reasonable to deal with.

  9. Nintendo haxors getting in on it. by Valar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's good to see the Gamecube haxors getting in on the fun. I was thinking about which one I would rather buy, a GameCube or XBox the other day, and the main thing that makes me lean towards the Xbox is the better network support. Now, maybe, I'll wait out a see what these guys can do.

    --

    ====
    Crudely Drawn Games
    1. Re:Nintendo haxors getting in on it. by AvantLegion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm looking forward to this, but let's be real, it's not going to even come close to Xbox Live.

      Nintendo needs to remove their head from the sand and actually do something with online gaming themselves.

      Online Mario Kart? Online F-Zero? I'd sign up in a heartbeat.

  10. A lot of aggression... by pen · · Score: 5, Funny
    This seems to be turning out to be a pretty aggressive project...

    From the abstract:

    Once the cube has given out a series of 8 NOTIFY packets, it begins to aggressively search for other GameCubes on the network by sending out standard UPNP M-SEARCH packets (also on port 1900 with a TTL value of 1).
    From the weblog:
    As soon as I publish my findings, the specification of the protocol Nintendo is using, and a few suggestions about what needs to be done to bridge two LANs together (a simple tunnel will not do), I will be aggressively recruiting developers.
    From this Slashdot story:
    The Warp Pipe Project is aggressively seeking out developers who would be interested in this project through its SourceForge project page."
    I would be afraid to work with these guys...
  11. But... by binarytoaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    which games on the GCN are LAN-only as of now? It's a great idea, but the only game that comes to mind is PSO, and that *has* to be online. So could someone fill me in on which games are LAN-only? I remember reading in EGM about one that could support 16-player mode with the LAN, but that's about it..

    1. Re:But... by chadlnx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right now Kirby's Air Ride (JPN release only, US release in October) is the only LAN game to date. The big push is to get this software project at least to beta (if not stable) status by the time Super Mario Kart: Double Dash hits stores at the end of the year.

    2. Re:But... by MrLint · · Score: 2, Funny

      it would be great to visit other online towns in animal crossing 2:)

      and then deforest the town as a free service:)

  12. Gamespy doing this too by MaverickUW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not sure if people realized, but quite a while ago, Gamespy and Nintendo reached a development agreement. The idea was that Nintendo would give gamespy full access to how the LAN play on gamecube worked with the network architecture information, and in return, Gamespy would create a tunnel code and set up their own servers to arrage games (much like they do for everything else and Halo) for gamers to find eachother over the net and play online over broadband connections.

    See, that's what bugs me when everyone says that Nintendo doesn't have an online strategy. At least with Nintendo's strategy of giving gamespy the information in return for creating the software (though technically unsupported) is very smart. Online gaming ability, only ever costing the consumer $35 out of pocket specifically (for the broadband adaptor) where as the consumer never has to pay the cost of developing online cost for a game, a monthly service charge to access a game, and no yearly charge to have online features.

    If this turns out to be very popular and used by millions of gamecube owners, then Nintendo will put in the effort to do something of their own. Nintendo isn't stupid, and knows that just throwing money at a fad won't help anything. If they see through the gamespy system, or one like the one done by small groups, then Nintendo will have more incentive to put the effort in to give people the Nintendo Experience in an online format.

    1. Re:Gamespy doing this too by chadlnx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Valid points, and I mentioned the possible GameSpy deal with Nintendo in the project's mission statement. However, color me a skeptic, I'll beleive it when I see it. Even if GameSpy does come up with something, I doubt that it will be free forever. This is just one of the things that makes open source great. As long as we are focused, we can pull out a great solution which will benefit us all in the long term.

    2. Re:Gamespy doing this too by Osty · · Score: 2, Informative

      See, that's what bugs me when everyone says that Nintendo doesn't have an online strategy. At least with Nintendo's strategy of giving gamespy the information in return for creating the software (though technically unsupported) is very smart. Online gaming ability, only ever costing the consumer $35 out of pocket specifically (for the broadband adaptor) where as the consumer never has to pay the cost of developing online cost for a game, a monthly service charge to access a game, and no yearly charge to have online features.

      It all depends on what you want. For example, XBox Live provides you with services for your dollar, not just online games. They provide an official channel for downloadable content and game updates, a cheat-free environment (free from exploiting the network environment, not from exploiting bugs in games), voice chat in all games, friends lists, cross-game invites, etc. And of course most games don't charge anything more on top of the XBox Live subscription fee (which is really reasonably priced, after all). Yes, some games do charge more, but those are generally games that require some sort of infrastructure, like MMORPGs.


      As well, unlike Verant and Sony, XBox Live doesn't seem to be a vehicle to pay developers to finish a game that was shipped in a beta state. Yes, you can patch, but there have been relatively few patches pushed out through the service. Perhaps we'll see more of that when more MMOGs show up on XBox Live (right now there's only PSO, but there are others coming like True Fantasy Online, and supposedly Star Wars: Galaxies), but having a controlling authority that has some say in quality control is a good thing in my opinion.


      Sure, it's not the rough and tumble free-for-all of games like the Quake series, but it's also a far cry from the various mismanagements of MMORPGs like Evercrack or Ultima Online. I for one think XBox Live has struck a pretty good balance, and will be renewing my subscription come November.

  13. LAN v. Online by Osty · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I didn't see any mention of how they plan to reconcile development assumptions between LAN games (relatively secure environment, lag-free) and online games. From what I gather, this is not an officially supported project, and few (no?) developers will be writing games with this particularly in mind. Instead, they seem to to be planning to rely on developers writing LAN-capable games, and then tunneling those over the net like what's been done with XBox LAN-capable games. However, because they games will be designed with LAN play in mind, they most likely won't properly handle lagging connections or untrusted clients.


    I'm skeptical, and on the fence. On the one hand, I'd love to be able to play the new Mario Kart online, but on the other I don't think this will provide a satisfying online experience. And given the lack of Gamecube titles, I may find myself Cube-less within a year. Ah for the good old days of the NES, when you could rely on third parties to write awesome games for a Nintendo platform. <removes rose-colored glasses>

    1. Re:LAN v. Online by unclethursday · · Score: 2, Interesting
      However, because they games will be designed with LAN play in mind, they most likely won't properly handle lagging connections or untrusted clients.

      Same with XBconnect. But people use it 'cause it's free, and you can't play Halo over Live.

      And given the lack of Gamecube titles, I may find myself Cube-less within a year.

      YMMV, I say the same thing about the Xbox. I currently have 8 GC games on reserve, all of which are scheduled to hit in the next 6 months. That's more titles than I even own for my Xbox, and I've had my Xbox since last September. Add in the GBA games for my GBPlayer, and there is no lack of games for the GC, now.

      This will also put my GC over my PS2 for most games owned in this generation. I can only see myself buying FFX-2 and Tony Hawk's Underground on the PS2 in the near future.

      The only title I know I'm getting for my Xbox in the foreseeable future is Halo 2. I may just sell my Xbox and get another one when Halo 2 comes out. It gathers a lot of dust sitting there waiting for good games to come out on it. And before anyone asks: sim/street/realistic racing games, sports games (except for NHL games), and PC-style RPGs (all of these are genre's prevelant on the Xbox) do not interest me in the least, and I can only take so many FPS games at a time.

      Thursdæ

  14. Betamax by yerricde · · Score: 5, Interesting

    gamers don't want to sacrifice their smooth 60 fps framerates

    Most LAN games don't update themselves every frame; instead, they predict what happens in one frame based on the velocities of the avatars. A racing game such as F-Zero, Mario Kart, or possibly Kirby's Air Ride (which I've been following since it was supposed to be an early N64 title but got back-burnered in favor of Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards) can probably use much stronger prediction than some twitch game like Super Smash Bros. Melee.

    We're not evil like Microsoft, so as long as they aren't pirating stuff, we won't really care.

    So why did Nintendo sue the flash cart makers even when the devices had a substantial non-infringing use?

    I'm not very sure you really work for Nintendo.


    My GBA tech demos, if you're hiring game programmers and are willing to relocate me from Indiana
    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  15. Re:From a Nintendo employee by mnemonic_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    Evidence of being a fraud.

    This guy's a troll.

  16. Hopefully just a matter of time by aunchaki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I bought a GameCube a few months ago and love it. They've got a broadband adapter, but only one online game so far: Fantasy Star Online.

    XBox developers and Microsoft have embraced online gaming as a big piece of the future of console gaming. Nintendo still needs to come around. I'm hoping that catch up (I think Microsoft & Co. are right!)

    The hardware's ready when they are!

  17. Sorry, you're ENTIRELY wrong. by Viewsonic · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Sega sold the most titles of 2002 on the GameCube system. Yes, even more than the PS2 where they release the most titles. Capcom as well. In fact most 3rd parties sell very decently on the Gamecube, moreso than the horrid XBox sales they've been seeing.

    Also, worldwide, Gamecube is outselling XBox by a tiny margin again. XBox sales have dropped off as they dont have any decent titles to keep the love going. Ever take a look at Japanese sales?