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Picking Up the Pieces

ravenousbugblatter writes "The New York Times online ran an article yesterday titled Picking up the pieces that talks about new technology that can recover information from shredded documents. Not only can companies scan strip-shredded paper and recover the information, they can do the same with cross-shredded paper. It comes at a price though - one company charges $8,000-$10,000 to "reconstruct" the information in a cubic foot of cross-shredded material. How's it done? The shreds are glued onto a piece of paper and then scanned. Software then looks for matches (in one case using the pattern of ink at the edges of the pieces) and suggests possible combinations to the operator that can be accepted or rejected."

23 of 529 comments (clear)

  1. Still a good idea... by ajiva · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Shredding your financial statements is still a good idea. It keeps people from going through your trash and getting financial information. Everyone should at least get a straight line shredder and shred everything that they don't use.

    1. Re:Still a good idea... by plalonde2 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Have you done the risk analysis on this?

      What is the realistic likelyhood of someone pulling your financial information from your trash? It's substantially more effecient to just throw your statements out to the street on trash day under your coffee grinds.

      This tendancy towards living in fear scares me.

    2. Re:Still a good idea... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have one at home and use it to shred all the parts of correspondence that contains personal information.

      I've had someone use my personal details to "buy" something in a store before (albeit with some pretty out of date info) and I'm not going to make it easy for someone to try that again.

      The name and address portion of any envelope, all old bills, bank statements, etc get shredded and then those shredded segments get burned on an occassional bonfire.

      It's a little bit of work for a lot of peace of mind.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    3. Re:Still a good idea... by MrResistor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There was a report on the local radio new this morning about some 19-year old doing just that at the car rental agency he worked at. Scammed at least two people for hundreds of dollars of merchandise before he got caught.

      And owning a paper shredder would have prevented that how?

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    4. Re:Still a good idea... by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, because it takes no time to sort your documents into shred and no-shred, shred them, then empty the shredder into the trash, rather than just lobbing everything in there.

      In a society that gives out credit card numbers as easily as names, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people that assume that their card number has been swiped from their trash rather than from any one of the other zillion places that it lives.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    5. Re:Still a good idea... by MrResistor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've had:

      * Two offers of employment stolen (FedEX said they were signed for yet I didn't get the actual offers - somebody knows how much I make, my address, my occupation etc)
      * Silly little amazon.com thank you gift stolen (the box was found in the women's restroom)

      This is what I know of and it happened within 2 years.


      OK, great, but what does that have to do with shredding your documents? NOTHING, because neither of those things were ever in your posession to begin with, and document shredding would not have prevented their theft.

      If you're going to offer examples, you could at least come up with some that are actually relevant to the discussion.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    6. Re:Still a good idea... by Copid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would agree with you, but it depends on where you live. If you're a college student living in on-campus apartments, you should shred your documents. I've seen people dumpster diving for financial information in such areas. The campus police had a hard time staying on top of the problem where I lived. College students are good targets because their trash is frequenly mostly paper, they have to put their SSN on just about everything (at least, they used to), and their trash is almost inevitably full of credit card statements and other financial detritus. Combine that with big, shared dumpsters full of bags like that and you have a prime target. Sure, somebody probably isn't going to grab your specific garbage can in the suburbs, but the likelihood of being a target in some areas is quite high.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    7. Re:Still a good idea... by IIH · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Sure, because it takes no time to sort your documents into shred and no-shred, shred them, then empty the shredder into the trash, rather than just lobbing everything in there.

      For the same reason that all email should be encrypted to the same level, you should shred everything, not just items that you consider condifential. Otherwise you're doing some of the work of the attacker for him, by sorting out the data into important and not-important.

      --
      Exigo spamos et dona ferentes
    8. Re:Still a good idea... by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd say the likelihood is significant. The question is whether or not the one-time cost of a $40 shredder is justified.

      Sorry but you can cross shred and burn it and I can still gain your credit card numbers easily.

      All I have to do is go through the trash of the resturants you frequent.

      I could get 30-40 good CC numbers easily that way.

      Stores and resturants are really fricking lazy when it comes to that. be as paranoid as you want, unless you live in a bubble and never give out your info to anyone... you are very easy to get information on by a determined stalker/criminal/whatever....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Still a good idea... by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>Really? Do you know anyone who owns their home? I don't.

      Not 100%. Nope. But they own the portion that they've paid off.

      In my case:
      (my equity + (value of house - remaining morgage) = more than my remaining mortgage amount)

      In other words, I can sell this house, pay off the bank with the proceeds and go buy a smaller place and own it. If I wanted to.

      This is what can happen when you think constructively, logically and reach for a goal. And work like hell to make money to actually make the payments.

      So while guys like you are fighting the system by refusing to play, guys like me are figuring out how to use the system to an advantage. Think about it.

      BTW, I'm only 36.

      --
      Huh?
  2. Question... by stoney27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok I havn't read the story, yet but one quesion comes to mind. How do they handle double sided printing? And if they can't, more the reason to print double sided, besides saving paper.

    -S

    --

    It is said that a child learns wisdom from the parent,
    but the truly wise parent learns joy from the child
    1. Re:Question... by plalonde2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Double sided printing should increase the accuracy: Now each strip has about 4 edges of information to help sort them by, even if you do have to account for flipping the strip over.

    2. Re:Question... by rindeee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How would duplexing make any difference at all? It is still using the same method, and in reality if you are aware of duplex printing (which would be obvious) it could reduce the number of combinations that would have to be tried (if piece X goes here, then it already knows that the other side of piece X goes here too).

  3. This is why by pizen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why sensitive information should be incinerated after it has been cross-shredded.

    1. Re:This is why by micromoog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why bother cross-shredding it first?

  4. New proverb: by naner42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Never put all your shreds in one waste-basket.

    --
    Self realization: I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?"
  5. Hm... social engineering! by Monkeylaser · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I don't know about you guys, but this could conceivably make corporate espionage that much easier.

    Companies had better get more thorough in destroying their documentation if their information can still be gleaned after shredding.

    An evil thought occured to me. What sort of things could you glean from microsoft's trash using one of these programs. Any of the open-source crowd on here brave enough to find out? Could make for some amusing reading, those company memos.

  6. $10,000? by lildogie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How long can it take someone working full-time to do the job by hand?

    Four cubic feet a year would equal a teacher's salary.

  7. Iranian Revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Sorry I can't remember the issue (late 70's?), but after the Khomeni revolution, National Geographic had a picture of Iranian students manually piecing together shredded American documents they had obtained. I thought it was funny & can remember taping the picture to the wall next to our shredder.

  8. $8-$10K/ft^3 ... by jkujawa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... this means, for me at least, anyone who attempts to put my shredded documents back together will lose more than they'll be able to gain from me.

    Which is the name of the game in cryptography, too -- it's pointless to attempt to decrypt a communication the content of which is less valuable than what you'll spend building a machine to decode it.

    Of course, if I were a terrorist, I'd burn my documents after shredding them. No way to reconstruct that. Yet.

  9. Who's paranoid? by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Papers that have been burned are usually readable, as long as the ashes aren't totall crumbled into particles. The burnt ink will have a different shade of grey than the burnt paper. It takes work, but you can reconstruct paperwork quite well from burnt papers. In many cases even easier than shredded paper, as the fragments are larger.

    If burnt until the ashes turns white again, it's even easier -- then the text will often stand out in black on white again, and be directly readable by a human eye.

    What I think would be a good solution would be a shredder with a built-in printer -- it will print random text over the sheet before shredding it, to make the text unreadable even if reassembled.
    If anyone hasn't patented it, it's too late now - I hereby declare the idea public domain and knowledge.

    Regards,
    --
    *Art

  10. Re:Simple workaround. by SirGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I tried to do this with a teacher's note when I was in 4th grade or so. The ripped up little pieces floated happily around and never flushed.

    So use the toilet after you've put your papers in and odds are REALLY good that you'll get them all to flush then

  11. Re:Change is coming by multipartmixed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    GBM would be relatively easy to "undo" with access to an appropriate lab. GBM ink is soaked into the paper; laser printing/photocopy ink is melted onto it.

    It might be as simple as finding something which will react with toner to make it fluoresce under UV.

    --

    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?