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Will Munich's Linux Desktops Be Running Windows?
An anonymous reader writes "Remember that story about the city of Munich choosing Linux to power 14,000 desktop computers? One aspect of this story that most people don't know about is that up to 80 percent of those Linux desktops will be equipped with VMWare, a virtual machine emulator, under which they will run Windows and Windows applications. That's right, folks: The majority of those 'Linux desktops' will be used to run ... Windows." This Gartner report from early June seems to be the one mentioned in the article, though I'm not sure exactly where Thurrott gets the 80% figure.
Would you not have to pay for a SUSE linux and windows license to run windows in vmware? Maybe they are going to run their OLD versions of windows?
Running VMWare under Linux, not under Windows, could provide a needed security blanket for those people that aren't used to sudden change. If they weren't serious about the move they wouldn't be doing this transitional thing; remember that these are mainly office paper pushers, not computer geeks.
Trolling is a art,
Sure, I also think that Linux is perhaps not ready yet for GENERAL desktop use and replacement for Windows for all, but this article is a lot like Yellow Journalism, where the facts are more BS, fluff, and stretched fact than anything else.
They're also forgetting a major thing. If they were to use SO many computers with Windows anyway, WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST TAKE THE MICROSOFT DEAL? Instead of blowing several million euros on SuSE's Linux and IBM's machines?
In all, this article makes little or no sense, cites only one reference, gives no source for the statistic, and stretches many facts in the sole reference, to the point where it makes little/no sense. The very fact that this crap could be MENTIONED on Slashdot really makes me question the integrity of this news source.
My Computer repair class last year switched to linux my behest and because my instructor wanted to anyways. we setup VMWare and a win2k install on all of our machines as a stepping stone, throughout the year, people stopped using windows as much, as they had to start IT up from inside linux and that was "too much of a hassle" to lazy high school kids. However, they did start using linux more and more, and ultimately the b3ecame more proficient. So I believe Munich is using these VMware installs to allow their workers to be able to go back to a familiar enviroment while they learn the new one and how it functions
why does the porridge bird lay his eggs in the air?
You are so off you're not funny.
First it's a brilliant move. Make the entire part of windows A pain in the arse to every user. now if you have linux stations running say win95 or 98 for your legacy apps in a Vmware session, you eliminate the headaches of windows system management. Simply only have the desired legacy apps on the windows side, and remove the web browser,ftp,etc... the users now cant hose it by installing elf-bowling or clicking OK to install gator. next you can simply have linux replace the windows VMware file every time it reboots. plus have a new image rolled out to all systems without any intervention.
finally, when you roll out your linux native or web based versions of the apps, all your users welcome the deletion of that damned windows.
It's brilliant! and about time someone in a IT department made such a great decision to start a migration from microsoft and closed source in a smoother way.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
they want to be in *control* of their computing environment.
When this is done, they will be able to take advantage of any Linux or Unix based application easily. Why? Because their desktops are open ones, not closed.
No amount of money spent on the Microsoft deal will allow them the level of choice they have now.
That is going to be worth something more than the few million extra euros they spent today.
Blogging because I can...
This is actually great news. When I read the initial article I couldn't understand why the Linux solution was actually more expensive - now I do. Not only are they paying for the general conversion, but they're also paying up to $300/ea for VMWare, PLUS whatever they had to pay Microsoft in the first place, because they still need to have their Windows and MS Apps' licenses in a row. In this case, Linux {IBM, SUSE} is getting paid, VMWare (a great company, imho) is getting paid, Microsoft is getting paid - and a black eye to boot. This goes to prove that you can make the conversion to Linux even if you are still bound to Windows apps, and do so at a fully comparable price!
They'll have lots of legacy Windows apps that will need to be progressively ported to Linux, so it makes sense to do this in a planned, application-by-application manner rather than go for a 'big bang' approach.
Furthermore, maybe only 50% of their users will need to run Windows/VMWare at any one time, so they may only need to buy half as many Windows licences as they have machines. Over time, this would decrease, as more and more apps get moved off Windows and onto Linux, and the number of users that need Windows decreases. And before anyone says "this is illegal", remember that we're talking about Germany, and they have much stronger laws restricting licence tying than they do in the US. I'm not an expert in German law, but this is quite likely to be "more legal" (if that term makes sense) in Germany than it would be in the US.
Are the licenses tied to the user, or is it just n concurrent sessions? If it's the latter, they could probably share a relatively small number of them.
I've never tried running VMware over X, but that might be another way to share a pool of winboxes.
The advantage over what they're doing is that everyone would have access to the services yet they wouldn't have to buy a license for infrequent users.
One interesting support model I'm seeing someone do right now is to have every single desktop running Linux and a Linux version of VMware, regardless of the "actual" client operating system. Boot the box, VMware starts, then without any manual intervention the client OS (usually 'doze 2000) starts up and goes full screen.
... the entire image can be pulled back remotely, then fixed/upgraded/replaced, and shoved back down to the actual physical location. Sweet!
Sounds silly? When there's a problem, or a need to upgrade, or whatever
The long-term answer to tech support problems is to migrate towards true thin-client or lean-client computing, making the actual desktop device irrelevant. But this is a nice stopgap.
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More importantly, though, with the speeds of current x86 hardware, and by using some sort of binary translation, it should be possible to run PPC software on an x86 at least as fast as the first PPCs (and probably significantly faster).
So yes, one should "try again" on modern hardware. :-)
NSA supposedly no longer exposes Windows directly to the net. It is run on top of Linux using vmware. So, if good enough for the NSA, then it is good enough for me (assuming that we both have the same versions with all the same patches ).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
All of the vmware discussion is based upon guesses in the Gartner report. It is assumed that the bulk will be web based and a small remainder will need something like vmware or win4lin. These unknown apps may run well enough under wine or crossover office.
It seems that IBM and Suse understand enough about the current apps that Munich currently runs to have accomodated this in the proposal where they gave a solid price. The Gartner group is making guesses, seems like they don't need to base reports on solid facts does it?
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
When I got a new laptop last August it came pre-installed with XP. Despite everyone's complaints about Win98, I had had good luck with it on my previous 550MHz laptop. Anyway, when I upgraded to a 1.6GHz Athlon and found that VB, Word, and QuickBooks all ran SLOWER than they had run on my 550MHz laptop I decided it was time to make the dive. Not to mention my new XP machine was crashing quite a bit and the WinModem wasn't working even after a few driver upgrade attempts, alternately from HP and from Microsoft itself.
I bought a new laptop HD rather than risk the current XP installation. I installed RedHat 7.3 (because it was the same version as on my desktop server and on my dedicated hosting server). It worked great! Network card detected, USB mouse and keyboard detected. A few tweaks and my WinModem--which HADN'T been working under XP--even worked under Linux. I then went out and spent $80 on Win4Lin so I could still use Windows when absolutely necessary (I still do some VB/VC++ development occasionally). As it turns out, Word, VB, VC++, QuickBooks, Adobe *ALL* run faster under Win4Lin under RedHat 7.3 than they did on the exact same machine running XP. I couldn't believe it.
So... I switched to Linux for stability and security. And as it turns out my Windows applications actually run faster than they did with XP. I ain't looking back and I won't be running a Microsoft OS ever again.
That said, I can't say Linux is perfect. Kate seems to crash when I click the "Open" button so I have to have the "file dialog" window open and open files that way. Kopete (ICQ/MSN/Yahoo/etc. client) works fine but usually crashes when I shut it down, and doesn't support file transfers. So life is not perfect yet--but at least when these programs crash they don't take the whole OS down with it.
Anyway, I'm going to upgrade to RedHat9 so hopefully some of these issues will be handled. Even if they aren't I'll take the Linux problem to the Windows problems any day of the week.
Here are a few facts for everyone to chew on:
Let me also point out that this isn't some little "ThirdWorld" (tm, USA) country with no economics or tech savvy we are talking about - this is Germany - probably the economically most powerful nation along with USA, and the driving force behind Europe. These guys have what it takes to do an evaluation of this sort, and come out tops.
And they have proved that *again* with their decision to switch to Linux while also giving their users the psychological crutch that they will be able to use their existing windows applications. In one fell swoop, they have swept all objections off the table, and have set up a scenario where people will now actually begin using Linux/OSS apps, rather than just reading about them.
And as we all know, that is the *one* single obstacle that Linux/OSS has been facing in the past - getting people to actually try it.
Go, Germany! Show the world how it is done!
You aren't remembered for doing what is expected of you