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Buy.Com Debuts Music Download Site

Posted by michael on from the what-are-you-paying-for,-exactly? dept.

elucidus writes "Buy.com on Tuesday launched a new digital music download service -- the site, BuyMusic.com, offers a catalog of more than 300,000 songs. The site only loads in Internet Explorer and all the files are Windows Media 9 formatted with DRM. No word yet on whether the public announcement of a supposed gaping hole in Windows Media DRM caused any concern before the launch. Compatible players include the Nomad IIc 9 and Creative's Jukebox Zen."

25 of 610 comments (clear)

  1. Let me see... by oscast · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Different licenses for different songs with varying limits for burning versus uniform licensing for all songs with unlimited burns. It's going to be hell making your own custom music CD using that service. I'm sticking with Apple, and once Apple releases its PC iTunes, I'm sticking that on my PCs as well.

    1. Re:Let me see... by ohthetrees · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On top of that, after looking around a good bit, I can't find anything about deauthorizing a computer. If you sell/toss an old computer I don't see a mechanism for getting your music to your new machine. Is this possible? Can they be that dense? Perhaps they just haven't put the faq up yet.

  2. not all music is .79cent by Numeric · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Coldplay for .99

    My Bloody Valentine for .89

    Its funny that they say songs cost .79 cents but I haven't found one artist yet who's songs are that price.

    --
    -- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
  3. Re:Linux no access by Wattsman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just went to the site in IE. A pop-up window states that
    Windows Media Player Version 9 is required to download music on BuyMusic.com.

    They're specifically targetting Windows customers. And all Windows customers have IE. No reason to spend the extra time and money to make sure the site works with Mozilla or Opera (or Lynx or ...).

  4. Re:IE , WM9, DRM ? by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Four strikes against it for me - IE, WM9, DRM and USA. Maybe they're not touching us as we don't all have restrictive laws on copyright circumvention yet...

  5. Who is the ad wizard? by Zeekamotay · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hmm, let's see, here's a "best of" Judas Priest album. I can do a one-time download of a crippled non-CD-quality set of copy protected files that only work on a subset of machines for $12.69. Or, on the buy.com music page, I can buy the same album, at a higher quality, on physical media, in a universal format with no copy protection, including inserts with pictures, lyrics, etc., for $10.98. Gee, that's a tough choice...

  6. bleh by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think it's been pretty well established in the market that there's a demand for non- or minimally-encumbered music files. Why then release crapware DRM and license-encumbered shit?


    Check the EULA for this shit. Pure crap. I don't want an EULA that tells me I'm restricted to legally using my music only on approved players - isn't it bad enough that they use a fucking proprietary format, now they want to legally restrict me from using "unapproved" players? They can go fuck themselves up a tree with that attitude - when I buy a CD, I can play it on any damned player I want, and I expect the same rights when I buy music for download. At least with iTunes, you can transcode, burn to CD-R, etc. If I can't transcode it to MP3 and put it onto my mini-CD/MP3 player, you aren't getting a penny from me. And did I mention, go fuck yourselves buy.com.

  7. Question? by jared_hanson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK, I went to the site and noticed their restrictions information. Each song comes with a certain limit to how many times it can be downloaded, transfered to a portable, and burned.

    My question is, what exactly does burning mean? Can I burn the tracks to a regular audio CD which I can play in my CD player (and, hence, re-rip to MP3)? Or does the song go to a data CD in WMA9 format, making it pretty much useless?

    If anyone knows, I would really like an answer.

    --
    -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
  8. Gaping Hole Text by thePancreas · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Update July 19 Score one for security through obscurity. I haven't found a detailed explanation of the exploit, and I'm out of time for looking. The best documentation I have is mails from the wm-talk list, which I have archived here in mbox format -- you'll need to import these into your mailer to make the file readable.

    Worth pointing out: check out the post below titled "Digital becomes Analog."

    Update July 15 The crack turns out to be lossy. It grabs the audio stream at rendering time, so doesn't have access to the unencrypted bytes.

    That said, this is all gossip. I still don't have access to either the details of the exploit or technical documentation, so can't judge for myself. There's no public documentation on the design of WM9 DRM (or iTunes DRM, for that matter).

    If any regulars on AVSForums run across the original reference, I'd be grateful for a pointer.

    Folks on AVSforums say they have successfully used tools from the Microsoft software development kit to rip and re-encode audio protected by Microsoft DRM in the WindowsMedia 9 format. This is only a rumor at this point -- I haven't seen the crack myself, but WM9 developers seem to be taking it as gospel. How did these criminal masterminds pull off this incredible feat? Did they crack an encryption key? Did they beat an MS employee with a rubber hose? Did they heat a CPU in a microwave oven? Was it a buffer overflow? An underflow? What was this remarkable feat?

    Incredibly, there was no exploit needed. These wily crackers merely had to write a program using well documented 100% aboveboard functions provided by Microsoft. It was not hard, involved no breakthroughs, did not depend on reverse engineering, and did not need a key. All they did was build the right DirectShow graph, and since DirectShow is a tool for third party software developers to build shipping software, ISVs can easily offer an all-in-one solution to strip DRM from content without fear of the DMCA.

    What this means is that the DRM on which both Microsoft and their many partners in the RIAA and MPAA are counting on is nothing but a sham. There is no DRM in MS DRM.

    Lucas Gonze is the former Cofounder and CEO of WorldOS Corp., a decentralized infrastructure provider, and an industry expert on the technical infrastructure requirements of Instant Messaging.

    --
    I went to battle MC Escher, but drew a blank
  9. Re:Seen the ads? Imitation's the sincerest form... by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You mean these ads? They're current.

    If BuyMusic ever tries to play these on TV, they'll get their asses handed to them by Apple in a heartbeat. (It's only parody if its not being done as direct competition for profit, otherwise it's plagarism.)

    Yeah, I was dumbstruck by the lack of originality. At least the Tommy Lee one was original (even though it didn't really make much sense.) While I use my Windows machine ten times more than my Mac, I only use the Mac for music. (Yes, I've spent more than I should have on the iTunes Music Store before I gave it up cold turkey. Of course, next paycheck.....)

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  10. How to fool the system, part 1. by NetDanzr · · Score: 3, Interesting
    According to the FAQ, people need to use MSIE 5 or higher for a certain ActiveX control that handles the DRM information of the song. I noticed that the page code does a simple browser check when you click on the download link. When I didn't use MSIE 5 or higher, I kept timing out.

    I set my Opera 7.11 to identify itself as MSIE 6.0, and behold: got through to pay and download the song with no problems. I'm curious now: if I downloaded the song, would I be able to play it even without the ActiveX control? And if so, will I have gotten it without any DRM protection?

    1. Re:How to fool the system, part 1. by slagdogg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      if I downloaded the song, would I be able to play it even without the ActiveX control? And if so, will I have gotten it without any DRM protection?

      Windows Media DRM wrapped files have a license URL stored in the header. So if you downloaded and played the file, it would not find a license stored locally and your player would visit the license URL in search of one. Now, whether or not Buy.com has implemented the license post-delivery is yet to be seen. But it would probably involve putting in your Buy.com account credentials at which point you would receive a license.

      --
      (Score:-1, Wrong)
  11. Yawn. by poiu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For the low low low price of $7.95 you can buy .... not much. Teasers. Click around, you'll find that almost all of the songs are the same or *higher* prices as the ones on Apple's music store. I just checked Audioslave from their list of top 5 album downloads. At Buymusic.com its $12.69. At Apple its $11.99.

    Also, Apple's store is 100% integrated into iTunes. That makes getting, downloading, & adding music to your library that much easier.

    Luckily, MS DRM has (allegedly) been cracked. The DRM is a PITA, take a look:

    Make sure you mean to buy your music from your primary computer (for example: your home computer) so that it contains your primary license. The licenses are non-transferable. Example: You cannot buy your music on your home machine and then transfer your primary license to your work machine. The computer you buy from becomes the primary computer with the primary license for that song. You can only copy music from your primary machine via your primary license. See below for details.

    Each record label has control over these license restrictions including the number of times you may:

    transfer your songs to another computer(s)
    transfer your songs to an approved portable digital media player.
    burn your songs to CD

    BuyMusic.com complies with each record label and adjusts the SDMI license on each of your music downloads accordingly.

    Thanks though, I think I'll stick with Apple's music store.

    --

    ---
    "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that."
  12. Question about an end-around by Wirenut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Couldn't you setup a machine to burn an audio CD via WMP, and then simply rip the CD back to MP3's thus squeezing out the DRM crap?

    I love how they keep emphasizing "Digital Media Player", as if by simply ignoring concept of MP3 will make them go away.

    --
    "You're either outstanding, or outprocessing"
  13. Re:help by doomy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yep, a bit weird there, I suppose. I guess there are people who don't like OGG, anyway I didn't mean to flame anyone, or can't possibly see how it could be flameable ;-)

    Anyways, I just wrote to BuyMusic.com asking them the following two questions.

    1. Would they support alternate browsers and OS's (Such as Linux/BSD).

    2. Will they support alternate download formats such as MP3 and OGG.

    Right after sending that, I got four replies from buymusic.com. Here is the latest....


    You previously sent BuyMusic.com an email. Due to the nature of your
    request, we have escalated your email to an expert queue, where it will
    be answered as soon as possible by a specialist in the subject you
    asked
    about.

    We are committed to respond to your email as soon as possible.

    We appreciate your business.

    And so, my question has escalated into something drastic over at buymusic.com and I should be getting a reply from an expert soon :)

    --
    ...free your source and the rest would follow...
  14. Confusing and Ripoff? by danlor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While browsing around the site, I was stunned to see how much the "rights" varied from song to song. Even on the same album. It really sucks that they went with WM9/SDMI. Good luck backing these puppies up!

    What was also surprising is that the selection is not any better than iTunes. Lots of partial albums. Why would a record company restrict onlines sales of albums/singles that are over 15 years old?

    I was also turned off at how much the site layout is a blatant ripoff from Apple. Even the ads. Please. One good thing though... We can write reviews! I always felt that was a hole in Apple's site.

    Now Apple legal has something to chew on!

  15. Re:Microsoft centric... by drgroove · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just sent this email to Buy.com using your link:
    -------------------
    I've purchased plenty of items from Buy.com in the past, but I have to let you know something.

    I don't *ever* use Internet Explorer to do it.

    In this day and age of web standards and the growing concern that all browsers and all websites comply, don't you think that Buy.com could be in a position to set a clear example in the business community on how to develop & deliver a web-based application that uses those standards?

    Without standards, we *all* run the risk of one company creating a 'tax' on the internet. Seeing as the internet has grown and survived on a spirit of openness, anyone who creates a browser or website that does not follow the W3C standards is not only increasing the risk that one company could own or control the internet, but they develop in the face of the internet's very open nature.

    Beyond losing a potential customer due to Buy.com's browser restrictions - I *never* use Internet Explorer - the example that you're setting in the online community and business community as a whole is a poor one at best... at worst, by playing favorites to a known monopolist company, Buy.com is thereby increasing the risk of a "Microsoft Internet Tax" becoming a reality.

    On behalf of developers everywhere, I strongly encourage your to open your web sites and web services to *all* W3C standards-compliant web browsers, as well as to offer your downloadable music products in formats other than Microsoft's proprietary format.

    In order to be compliant with web browsers, please refer to the free online information provided by the W3C at http://www.w3.org. A good way to test your site for standards compliance is to use a Mozilla/Gecko based browser, such as Mozilla Firebird v0.6, or Mozilla v1.4 - these can be downloaded at http://www.mozilla.org.

    Suggested formats for your music products - in addition to Microsoft's proprietary format - would be MP3, Ogg Vorbis, et al.

    Thank you for your time and attention. I hope you take these points seriously, and bring your site and services into compliance with the rest of the world, rather than isolating yourself in seclusion using only Microsoft techonologies.

    -------------------
    thanks, btw for the link... hopefully they listen!!! (I realize the language isn't perfect... just wrote it out really fast, didn't edit it... anyhow)

  16. Re:Microsoft centric... by pdxmac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You'd rather have DRM restricted non-standard audio files with a service that works on 5% of computers (AAC+iTunes+Macs) than DRM restricted non-standard audio files with a service that works on 94% of computers (WMA+WMP9+IE5)?

    Fair point about compatability and market-share. However, the "rights" granted by your purchase of a license at buymusic are significantly more variable and cumbersome than those granted by Apple's iTunes Music Store. The site includes silly talk about primary and secondary licenses for music. Then there is the baffling issue about the distinction they are trying to draw between CD+ and CD- drives. This thing is just WAY TOO complicated and restrictive. It has nothing on Apple for ease-of-use.

    For what it's worth, I dumped my iBook last year and bought a Win box. Now if I could only change my /. name....

  17. Advertisement Ripoff by Kenterlogic · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Near the bottom of the BuyMusic.com index there are three links to their television commericals they have lined up. These commericals aren't just similar to the AppleMusic.com ads, they are identicle. Person standing in front of white background listening to music on headphones (which you can't hear) and singing along, dancing around. Then black text on white background with just one line of text. Apple is usually pretty aggresive when it comes to posers like this-- I wonder if they will act.

    --
    The New Root Council, kickin' ass sinc
  18. And you must also allow tracking of yourself... by Kaa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the buymusic.com site:

    Also, make sure your 'individualization' is 'on'. Some 'spyware' programs advise you to turn it off, but it is a critical component to your DRM licensing decryption protocols.

    "Individualization" is just double-speak for allowing Windows Media Player to assign you a GUID (Global Unique ID) and send information to third parties (MS and such) about what you've been doing with your Media Player.

    So not only this works on just Windows. Not only you get just DRM-encumbered files. Not only you have to deal with multiple different licenses for different songs. But you also have to agree to them tracking the music you listen to...

    Thanks, I think I'll pass.

    Actually, I'll put it in more clear term. I'll stay the hell away from this.

    --

    Kaa
    Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
  19. Re:Microsoft centric... by Lt+Razak · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Scary isn't it? Makes you wonder if the DOJ ever had court with Miscrosoft...ever.

    Windows + IE + WMP + MS DRM

  20. 300 000 songs? by tRr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Where is the supposed 300 000 tracks? I just went through all of the major categories listed on the main page of buymusic.com. Then I clicked on the List All option for each category. This is what I got:

    Titles Within Alternative (11565 matching titles)
    Titles Within Blues (3927 matching titles)
    Titles Within Country (10597 matching titles)
    Titles Within Jazz (22074 matching titles)
    Titles Within Metal (4835 matching titles)
    Titles Within New Age (1649 matching titles)
    Titles Within Oldies (2151 matching titles)
    Titles Within Pop/Rock (11557 matching titles)
    Titles Within R&B/Soul (15457 matching titles)
    Titles Within Rap/Hip Hop (12408 matching titles)
    Titles Within Reggae (2138 matching titles)
    Titles Within Soundtracks (333 matching titles)
    Titles Within World (12794 matching titles)

    Equals=111485

    Those matching titles are referring to the actually track titles and not the albums since if you take the number of songs listed on the first page times the number of pages you can get the number of "matching titles". The only thing I can think of is that they have music just floating around without a category yet.

    Anyone have any light to shed on this?

  21. Re:Microsoft centric... by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think that the average consumer would be using IE, and so have no problem with the site in the first place.

    I work as a programmer at a web agency, and if there's one thing that's taught me, it's that most people use IE. We still ensure compatibility with Netscape and Mozilla, but no client in a couple of years has actually *required* it.

    --
    It's official. Most of you are morons.
  22. Re:300 000 songs? I can't find them.... by tRr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My number includes the songs that it says are "Not available for sale." To test this you can try out the Metal Catogory:

    http://www.buymusic.com/searchresults.aspx?parid =2 80&loc=18281

    Click on one of the results without a price and you will see its not available for sale but its still included in the "List All" listing. For Metal it says there is 194 pages * 25 songs per page = 4850, close to 4835 it mentions as the total (the last page is not full). This shows that they are even including songs that are not for sale, so the actual total number of songs for sale as of right now is even less then 100 000. Unless they are hiding somewhere else that I can't see?

  23. How Craptastic.. by All+Names+Have+Been · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok .. Booted up the Windows box to try this out. Got through the account signup, picked a tune. WTF? It's $.99? Oh well. That's advertising for you. Anyhow, add to basket, and checked out. Downloaded. Tried to play. Nothing.

    Pain of the site list:

    1. *Continuous* pop-ups on nearly every screen asking me to install WMP 9. I have it installed. It works just fine with everything else.

    2. When trying to play my tune, WMP pops up IE and says I don't have a license, asks for my buymusic.com user and password. Entered, says it downloads a license.

    3. Try to play (again.) Same deal, no license. Sends me back through the download again. Doesn't work.

    4. Attempt to reinstall WMP 9 (obviously something is wrong with the installation.) Reinstalling is the Windows cure for everything!

    5. Two reboots later. Download license. Whoops. Number of available "computer" licenses exceeded. I'm fucked.

    6. Anyone want a copy of Clay Aiken singing Troubled Waters? I'll sell it cheap. $.79. DRM license not included. (Good for hackers!)

    7. Post broken file on Kazaa. It's gotta be useful for someone, right?