GlennZ writes "Today, Trolltech has released version 3.2 of QT. This release includes a completely rewritten, faster font-rendering engine and a lot more.
Go download it today!"
It was not listed on the web site so I thought it was not out yet sorry for that.
font rednering
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Interesting
why not just use freetype and be done with it?
Re:font rednering
by
jpu8086
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· Score: 1, Insightful
Because it needs to be run on multiple platforms.
-- now supporting:
cmdrTaco for president '04
michael for oval office intern summer '05
Re:font rednering
by
IamTheRealMike
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· Score: 3, Informative
FreeType is cross platform though;)
FreeType however does not do the relevant layout you need for all international scripts. GTK uses Pango for this purpose, TrollTech rolled their own. FreeType is just involved with rendering the glyphs, there is quite a bit more involved to completely display unicode text.
Splash Screen
by
Per+Wigren
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· Score: 3, Insightful
* QSplashScreen (add splash screens to applications)
I really hope that one will be able to disable this by a standard Qt-argument (--no-splash) or by a env-variable because I'm afraid this will be abused..:P
-- My other account has a 3-digit UID.
Re:Splash Screen
by
Arandir
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· Score: 3, Informative
The QSplash class is trivial. So trivial I wrote my own in an hour that turned out to 95% identical to Qt's before I knew that they were going to have one. It simply puts a pixmap widget on the screen, starts a timer, and waits for either a timeout or a mouseclick.
QSplash is not going to check the command line arguments. This is an instance where it is the programmer's job to determine if the user wants a splash screen or not. But don't worry too much, every instance of a splash screen in a Qt application I have ever seen (Kdevelop, Quanta, etc) allows you to turn it off. Using QSplash instead of a homegrown splash isn't going to change this.
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Re:Splash Screen
by
cyb97
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· Score: 3, Informative
It's probably gonna make more developers create splash screens as it's timesaving... While it's a waste spending about an hour programming a splash-class if your program lacks in other divisions; spending 5-6 minutes implementing this new class is more appropriate... If lack of time is the reason it's implemented in the first place, I guess implementing a --no-splash is probably not in the.plan for some future;-)
But I can't really see how more choice can be worse...
Re:Splash Screen
by
Arandir
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· Score: 3, Informative
I guess implementing a --no-splash is probably not in the.plan for some future
Well, it's also goes against the Way of Doing Things. Standard Qt command line options should not modify the behavior of the software. So the command line options you see are stuff like fonts, colormaps and the like. You don't see stuff like "--cancel-button-left" because that's not Qt's job, it's the developer's.
KDE is another story, because part of the purpose of KDE is to provide a unifrom look and feel for the desktop. I can easily imagine a KSplash class that checks for a --no-splash option.
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Re:Splash Screen
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Of course, some would say it's the user's job to decide where buttons go - see e.g. amiga MUI.
I guess it would depend on your definition of "free". GTK is under the LGPL, while QT is under the "GPL unless you pay us" license. I kind of like GTK better because it is a community-controlled project, unlike QT which even though it is gpl'd is still a commercial product in which Troll Tech decides its fate.
together with KDE e.V. (non-profit org) who made a contract with trolltech to ensure that Qt stays GPL'd.
Re:GTK
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
That's not completely true. If Trolltech goes out of business, then QT will become completely GPL'd which is FAR better than GTK's crappy LGPL. Besides, someone can port the unix version of QT to windows if they wanted and in fact someone is.
How so? LGPL allows you to use a licence that isn't GPL. GPL does not. I can't make a program with a BSD or my own licence, I must use the GPL with Qt.
Qt is better, IMHO, but the licence of GTK is better.
-- God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Re:GTK
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
a) Qt doesn't become "completely GPL", it becomes BSDL
b) Qt already *is* "completely GPL"
c) Qt is also licensed under the QPL, which allows you to use other licenses than the GPL for your software
d) The GPL allows you to use some other licenses for your software, too
I could go on, but, really, guys, go read something before posting.
a) Qt doesn't become "completely GPL", it becomes BSDL
How is that relavent to my post? The original poster said that GPL was better than GPL.
b) Qt already *is* "completely GPL"
I know, I didn't say otherwise.
c) Qt is also licensed under the QPL, which allows you to use other licenses than the GPL for your software
It isn't on the Macintosh or Windows, so for cross platform coding, it may as well be just GPL.
d) The GPL allows you to use some other licenses for your software, too
It doesn't allow you to use a commercial licence, therefore the LGPL is better for a library like Qt or GTK+.
I could go on, but, really, guys, go read something before posting.
As you can probably see, I did read something before posting... the AC's post to which I was replying. Your post added nothing to the conversation.
-- God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Re:GTK
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Some of the ut supra mentioned errors are yours, some belong to the poster of the previous message. I just didn't bother corecting both on two separate posts.
So, sure, he was saying GPL is better than LGPL (not GPL, silly boy), but saying that Qt becomes "fully GPL" if TT flops is just wrong.
Same for the rest of the corrections. Be a grownup, say, oops and fuck off.
I don't understand...
by
TheSHAD0W
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· Score: 4, Funny
Isn't Quicktime 4 already out? And who's Trolltech? I thought Apple made Quicktime...
Re:I don't understand...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You obviously need to RTFA.
QT != Quicktime
Re:I don't understand...
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WTFmonkey
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· Score: 2, Funny
You obviously need to go dowload Sense of Humor 4.0 and ISF (Irony, Sarcasm, and Facetiousness) 2.0.
Re:I don't understand...
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cyb97
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· Score: 2, Funny
According to SoftwareUpdate iHumour4 and iISF2 isn't available yet...
Guess you'll have to order the iPerson package straight from applestore... it comes on 7 DVDs;-)
$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Guspaz
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· Score: 0, Troll
3.2 is out you say? Sure, if you want to spend $1550 to use it under Windows.
The newest version available for "free" use on Windows is 2.3. So much for QT being cross platform!
Trolltech has made QT useless for many people who need to be able to run their programs under linux and/or windows, and can't afford Trolltech's rediculous licences.
QT isn't free, far from it. It's far more expensive than the alternatives. If I'm not mistaken, a single QT licence even costs more than a copy of Visual Studio.NET!
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
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Phillup
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· Score: 1
I'll bite...
How is Visual Studio.Net an alternative for those wishing to develop for Linux, Mac OSX and Windows?
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
computerme
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· Score: 5, Informative
I'll bite too.
Why is there a free GPL version on their site for the Mac and Linux? The windows version was ceased cause too many (not naming names here) people refused to follow the rules of license.
QT Rocks!*
*Except for those that think "time != money" and "it !not take money to make money."
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
FroMan
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· Score: 2, Insightful
$1550? That's nothing. Chump change.
If you are going to write software for a living, $1550 isn't even two weeks of pay. I can say easily where I work that I have more than $1550 of development software on my machine.
If you are starting your own business and writing for profit applications $1550 is a minor business expense compared to your time.
-- Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Keith+Russell
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· Score: 4, Informative
$1550? That's nothing. Chump change.
The problem is not that QT/Win is not free-as-in-beer. The problem is that QT/Win is not Free-as-in-speech.
Trolltech released a Non-Commercial edition of QT/Win 2.3. The license basically said you couldn't make one thin dime off anything built with the Non-Comm edition, and since it was incompatible with the GPL, you had to add an exception to your license. Nobody took that license seriously, and Commercial license sales dropped. Trolltech was forced to end the line after that one release. (IMHO, had they gone GPL in the first place, they wouldn't have had that problem. The GPL gets respect.)
Not that you could find that out from their FAQs. You have to go digging through the QT-Interest mailing list archives. All the FAQ has is flippant sayings like "When Windows is completely Open Source...". Bah. Like Microsoft really cares about Trolltech. Windows-based developers are the only ones getting screwed.
In the end, Trolltech decided that "Windows compatible" and "Free/Open Source" are mutually exclusive. (Pay no attention to the cross-platformOpen Sourceprojects behind the curtain.)
But I'm not bitter.
-- This sig intentionally left blank.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
dalleboy
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· Score: 1
Make that $4660 (a bit less if you're many) per developer (with Qt TrioPack, Enterprise Edition). TrioPack to have any use of the multi-platform capabilities and Enterprise Edition to use the QTable class.
And after that you'll have to pay $1450 (a bit less if you're many) per developer and year if you want any maintenance and support.
Ain't that cheap?
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
FroMan
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· Score: 1
That's the thing about doing stuff. If you do it, you get to call the shots. Not always the popular way of doing things, but its the way it works.
Now, one thing that you do have the option to do is this:
Take all the.h files from X gpl'd qt and port the c++ over to windows. Tada! You have your gpl'd qt. If you don't want to do it, don't complain when you cannot use it gpl'd.
-- Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
The+Bungi
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· Score: 1
So don't use it. But don't whine about it. If it's not "free" (whatever that means under your criteria) - then don't use it. That's also a freedom, eh?
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Keith+Russell
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· Score: 2, Informative
Take all the.h files from X gpl'd qt and port the c++ over to windows. Tada! You have your gpl'd qt. If you don't want to do it, don't complain when you cannot use it gpl'd.
My issue is that it is completely unnecessary to tear down the X11 version and reconstruct it for Windows when the finished product already exists. It is called QT/Win 3.2, it comes straight from the source at Trolltech, and the only thing keeping it out of the hacking public's hands is Trolltech's insistence on tilting at Microsoft's windmills, developers be damned.
I guess it's the attitude that honks me off. This passive-aggressive "We don't serve your kind" subtext that permeates the text of Trolltech's web site. Is that good evangelism for Open Source? I don't think so. It's little more than preaching to the choir. If anything, it's making things worse. Look at how well "You're either with us, or against us." worked for Dubya.
-- This sig intentionally left blank.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
__past__
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· Score: 2, Informative
Well, we'll see how Trolltech will react when the GPLed Windows version starts to get real. Qt/X11 probably would not be under the GPL were it not for someone starting a free clean-room reimplementation during the great QPL flamefest (IIRC it was called Project Harmony. It was abandoned when Trolltech released the GPL version, unlike Gnome, which has the same origin).
I for one don't think that a free Windows version would kill Trolltech. The people using Qt/Win right now are unlikely to use it, and most will probably simply still paying for the commercial license.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
aridhol
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· Score: 1
If you are going to write software for a living, $1550 isn't even two weeks of pay.
Hmm...looks like a month's pay to me. Try to avoid false generalizations.
-- I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
FroMan
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· Score: 1
Working in india?
I am not on the high end of pay scale and only a few years out of school, but I could easily pick up a copy.
If you are going be using it to make money, you are doing pretty poorly. Infact, you are making less than 19k a year. That would probably put you in line for some goverment aid.
So, either you are lying or you aren't very good at what you do.
-- Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Or you have bills to pay, moron. I make close to six figures, but I have rent, student loans, car payment, and a family to feed - $1500 is a lot of money for a software toolkit.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
nitehorse
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· Score: 1
Wow.
I think that this is quite possibly the first time I've ever seen you post something that I agree with, 100%.
And I never thought I'd see the day!:)
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Harmony was abaondoned when QT went GPL*, but it had no activity when QT was half-closed. It was an official GBU project, but the amount of code written (0 lines) makes it a prime candidate for sourceforege status.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
larry+bagina
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· Score: 1
maybe you don't pay taxes, or donate to your retirement account. For those of us that do, it can easily cut your paycheck in half.
-- Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
LWATCDR
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· Score: 1
It really is not all that bad. I work for a company that charges $3995 a copy for software. Our customers pay it because we have a good product and they can make good money at there proffesion using it. I am sad that the free windows versions is not available anymore. I would like to try it out on Windows to get a feel for it. It is also sad that no GPL Windows software can use it. Maybe they can use it but people that want to build it will have to have a pay version of QT.
TrollTech wants to make money. Good for them.
-- See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
eckythump
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· Score: 1
time = money
i prefer to think of it as like momentum and energy and the way they are related under relativity... momentum doesnt equal energy, and time doesnt equal money, but if your willing to wait you might get a better deal (might) and your patience has a relationship to betterness of the better deal.. but there are alot of implied beliefs and values between that and the adoption of clear cut chargeable interest = futurevalue - presentvalue
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
eckythump
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· Score: 1
damn, sign inversion error in that last equation
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
ShieldW0lf
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· Score: 1
Where the hell do you get $1550 from? That's for ONE platform.
If you're using QT, you're doing multiplatform, or WTF are you using it for? If you want Windows, Linux and MacOS licenses you're in for $4660 + $1450/yr for support. That's NOT chump change.
If I could pay under a grand for commercial access to all versions, I'd buy it. $4660+ is just too much money.
-- -1 Uncomfortable Truth
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Yeah, and you seem to be very confused about your physics.
I think you mean quantum physics, not relativity.
Second, time and energy are complimentary not time and momentum. (momentum and position are complimentary)
Third, the relation is the other way around, a -larger- wait will give you a smaller uncertainty in energy, not a larger one.
Re:$1550 just to use it? No thanks.
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jbolden
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· Score: 1
So far the project is more like QT/Cygwin than QT/Win. That's a much easier project for a QT/X11 port.
hogwash.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
when you have *free* alternatives... utterly *free*, suddenly that $1500 is a whole lot of money.
you say you have "more than $1550 of development software on my machine"... well if you wanted to start coding with QT... guess what? you just *DOUBLED* your expenses!
instead of buying qt, use a free toolket and buy yourself whole other build machine and a KVM switch and watch your productivity rise.
this whole "$1500 is nothing" argument is doublethink to the Nth degree.
when you have *free* alternatives... utterly *free*, suddenly that $1500 is a whole lot of money.
But you don't. Seriously, what alternatives to QT do you suggest? If you need something with a configurable look, looks sort of like native Windows apps on Windows, is supported on Linux, OS X, Windows and Solaris, and is fairly mature and stable.
you say you have "more than $1550 of development software on my machine"... well if you wanted to start coding with QT... guess what? you just *DOUBLED* your expenses!
BZZZTTT!
What part of "more than" did you not understand?
Anyways.
The only other free toolkit that I know of is gtk. There might be others, but gtk and qt both have their advantages and disadvantages. Over all qt is a complete programming package, similar to MFC. Qt is much more than gtk though. Qt includes IO, database, and many other objects that gtk does not.
With all the supporting libraries that come with qt are similar you do not have to spend two weeks researching what database access api you want to use, or any other sort of issue similar. You simpley pull out the qt database connectivity objects.
Anyways, I'm not a huge qt fan as far as libraries go. I don't care for the qic stuff and such. But, the point is use the tool that will make you more productive. If qt covers its cost use it. But stop the idiot idea that because something is free it makes it better.
Reminds me of a signature I had once...
The ultimate dutch dilemma: free manure.
-- Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Re:hogwash.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
gtk+ for one. i use many gtk+ (gaim, bluefish, pan) apps daily on windows, intergrates seemlessly with win2k + winXP:
http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/screenshots/
speaking of solaris, you do realise that sun is full thrown themselves behind gtk+ right? solaris uses gnome (not default right now i think, but in the future it will be), Java 1.4.2 adapts its look and feel to gtk+, so does openoffice. so on solaris gtk+ is the clear choice.
i dont know much about osX, but i do know that people are working on intergrating it as well as on windows.
Seriously, what alternatives to QT do you suggest? If you need something with a configurable look, looks sort of like native Windows apps on Windows, is supported on Linux, OS X, Windows and Solaris, and is fairly mature and stable.
wxWindows is better than Qt because it uses native widgets on all platforms, not emulated native widgets like Qt. It is mature and entirely free. There is also wxPython, letting you use wxWindows in Python.
wxWindows [wxwindows.org] is better than Qt because it uses native widgets on all platforms, not emulated native widgets like Qt
Hmm, wait, how does that make wxWindows a superior or even an alternate solution to Qt? Qt uses native Win32 API calls (on Windows) to paint everything (using GDI, etc)! Blech, it is just as fast as wxWindows, if not faster. It is more customizable as you can use various widget sets (all just as fast) or the default Qt-look.
Qt is a dream to work on w/ an awesome OO design unlike wx. They have a professional team behind it as the whole company's future depends on it. And please, it is definitely more mature, more widepsread, and very well supported, and gets the job done.
$1550 is a great price to pay for Qt to make professional closed-source applications.
-- now supporting:
cmdrTaco for president '04
michael for oval office intern summer '05
Qt uses native Win32 API calls (on Windows) to paint everything (using GDI, etc)! Blech, it is just as fast as wxWindows, if not faster. It is more customizable as you can use various widget sets (all just as fast) or the default Qt-look.
The difference is that on Windows a wxWindows application feels exactly like other native apps, because it _is_ a native app. A Qt app will look almost like a Windows app, but it will be noticable that it isn't using native widgets. This is probably also true on OS X.
Widgets in Windows behave differently in different versions, so it's probably unreasonable to expect a GUI toolkit to be able to emulate it perfectly on every version. The advantage to emulation is that it is easy to theme the widgets.
I agree that Qt is a high quality, professional toolkit. But I really wish it could be made to use native widgets.
Well, no. Comparing wxWindows to Qt is ridiculous, Qt is much more than a GUI library, it includes lots of modules (which you can disable selectively). Among other things you have : XML, OpenGL, network, database,...
wxWindows is cool but it's not intended for the same market. wxWindows lacks many things (it has a very weak unicode support for example) that make it inappropriate for serious development.
> The difference is that on Windows a wxWindows application feels exactly like other native apps, because it _is_ a native app. A Qt app will look almost like a Windows app, but it will be noticable that it isn't using native widgets. This is probably also true on OS X.
Obviously you haven't used Qt in a while...
1. On OSX (and previously on classic MacOS), Qt uses the Apple Appearance Manager.. it feels exactly like Carbon or Cocoa-written apps... 2. On WinXP, Qt uses Visual Styles.. it feels exactly like any wxWindows or MFC-written apps. 3. On X11, of course, there is nothing that is non-native. 4. On Windows versions before XP, it was pathetically easy to to have a Windows-like style, and therefore, Qt emulated it. Keep in mind that Trolltech had five years to perfect it, and perfect is what they did. Try downloading Psi for Windows for example and tell me that it doesn't feel like a Windows app:)
Try downloading Psi for Windows for example and tell me that it doesn't feel like a Windows app:)
Actually, Psi is my reference application. I use it daily under Windows 2000. It feels almost, but not quite, like a native application.
Drop down boxes are different, for example. Check boxes and radio buttons are different too. The visual appearance and selection behavior of push buttons is different.
Never used Psi, but my own program, QBrew, looks like a genuine native Windows program. Wait, it is! It just uses Qt instead of MFC or.NET. It certainly looks a lot more "native" than Visual Studio.NET.
I did change the icons, so they're not standard. I used it, but dammit they were ugly! But the controls are indistinguishable from Windows controls.
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Re:hogwash.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Uhhh... a little correction. wxWindows also has OpenGL, network, and database classes (I don't think it has XML). If you don't know about these, I don't think you've ever used wxWindows, and therefore you are unfit to comment here.
Re:hogwash.
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Regardless of what you use i strongly recommend boost::Python (www.boost.org) for integrating a python GUI with a C++ application.
While C++ is still the language of choice for serious systems programming, there's really no need to keep writing GUI's in C++...
thats not what i said.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
"But stop the idiot idea that because something is free it makes it better"
i never said: "becasue others are free they must be better." what i said was: "stop the idiot idea that $1500 doesnt matter." its a stupid suggestion. $1500 is a lot of money, especially when there *ARE* free alternatives that compete.
There are not free alternatives that compete against it in a comprehensive package. That is the point. Gtk is windowing/widget. Qt is much more. What package are you going to pair up with gtk to do your database access? Or any other component to the system you are writing?
You still don't seem to get it. $1500 for a product that increases your productivity that pays for itself is chump change.
The same arguments come up all the time in linux/windows TOC (I'm not taking sides here, just simpley another case). The cost of software is marginal to what you pay the people who use the software.
-- Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
Re:thats not what i said.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
These poeple that have been flaming you Fro, are idiots. And don't seem to have a clue.
Try actually using both. Qt signal/slots are much more flexible than Boost.Signals. But beyond that, I did a test once (for a class) where I used Qt signal/slots versus Boost.Signals for the exact same test application. The Qt version was 17k statically linked. The Boost version was 60k statically linked. In addition, the syntax was significantly gnarlier with Boost than with Qt.
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Re:Why moc?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You're wrong, the Boost signal library is superior to Qt's solution. For example, slots connected to a signal in Qt cannot return a value to the signal emitter, whereas Boost.Signals allows this. Furthermore, the Boost.Signals library is implemented using standard C++ templates, which means the compiler does all the work (no ugly macros, no moc compiler, just standard C++ generics).
However, Trolltech won't switch Qt over to a template-based implementation for portability reasons; they support many compilers, some with bad support for C++ templates.
IMHO templates and generic programming are underused by C++ programmers, many haven't grokked the power of template metaprogramming such as described in e.g. Alexandrescu. If they had, compiler vendors would have proper template implementations in their products a lot earlier.
You're wrong, the Boost signal library is superior to Qt's solution.
One thing I always check for when someone says they have a better solution, is how they handle "dangling callbacks." Boost doesn't. If you have a signal connected to a slot, and the object the slot is in gets destroyed, and then you emit the signal, WHAMMO!
I wrote a template-based signal/slot mechanism once, and taking care of dangling callbacks wasn't that terribly difficult. But the last time I used Boost.Signals, about six months ago, it didn't handle it. This is Not Good(tm).
Also last time I used Boost.Signals, it was a major pain in the butt trying to connect a signal to a member function slot. If you can't do that, then what's the point? Hopefully they've addressed that issue by now.
For example, slots connected to a signal in Qt cannot return a value to the signal emitter, whereas Boost.Signals allows this.
It's a signal, not a connection. If you want a return value, then you're using the wrong paradigm. This does not To quote from the Qt docs: "It does not know or care whether anything is receiving the signals it emits. This is true information encapsulation, and ensures that the object can be used as a software component."
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Re:Why moc?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
One thing I always check for when someone says they have a better solution, is how they handle "dangling callbacks." Boost doesn't. If you have a signal connected to a slot, and the object the slot is in gets destroyed, and then you emit the signal, WHAMMO!
If your signal-receiving objects derive from boost::signals::trackable, Boost does automatic connection management. Just like QObject, except it doesn't pull in a lot of extra stuff and works well with MI.
The moc is not just about signals. It is used for type identification, handles properties and some other stuff as well, these capabilities are used for example by Designer.
Also, boost signals aren't exactly the same as Qt signals (e.g. in Qt you can connect an X(int) to a X(void) slot, and there are some automatic conversions as well). Changing to boost would impact existing Qt applications, and the Trolls are quite proud of their binary and source compatibility.
As pointed out by other posters, some of the compilers that Qt supports can't properly handle the templates.
On a related note: have you seen libsigc++?
On another related note: check out Connect, it handles signals without moc using aspect-oriented programming... (Yes, it's my thesis)
SCO is a significant investor in Trolltech
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
They have to make SOME money!
by
Makarakalax
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· Score: 1
What's your problem with letting them stay in business? To my knowledge, the majority of their income is from Windows licences. Qt gets purchased to develop Windows progs, the mutli-platform nature helps persuade the Boss, but mostly people like it because it's a fabulous set of classes.
They know what they have to do to keep the money rolling in so that they can continue to release new versions of Qt. I can only assume you have your attitude because you don't trust them, you feel they are swindling you.
I trust them, so I supose we must agree to differ:)
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
> the majority of their income is from Windows licences.
I was going to question this, but they are highlighting "Adobe Photoshop Albumn" on their site. So that's at least one Windows product that uses Qt.
Still, most of their press release material is either Unix or "cross-platform" applications.
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
Keith+Russell
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
We don't disagree all that much. The Trolls have earned every kroner they've made from Commercial QT/Win. More power to 'em.
But the presence of a GPL'd QT/Win doesn't change the fact that closed source development requires the purchase of a Commercial license. Their existing customers either continue to pay up, or they have to open their own apps, which is probably not feasable for the licensee. And, unlike that half-assed Non-Commercial license, the GPL has real weight behind it. Trolltech should have an easier time sniffing out GPL violators with the weight of the FSF and thousands of rabid Open Source advocates behind them. Who would get more attention, some random Norwegian lawyer, or Bruce Perens?:-)
In fact, I've often wondered about Trolltech's understanding of the GPL. That QT-Interest archive I mentioned earlier is rather revealing. Here's their solution to the lack of Free QT/Win: Do all of your development on a platform supported by Free QT, like Linux, Mac OS X, or any ol' proprietary Unix you happen to have lying around the office. Once you've got something ready to ship, prepare the makefiles for the Windows build, then find somebody who has a legally purchased Commercial license of QT/Win, but has not contributed to your code, to do the build for you. Is it just me, or is that a really hazy interpretation of the linking clause of the GPL? Just because your Commercial-license-owning benefactor didn't contribute to the code, it's OK for him to link to a non-Free 3rd party library on your behalf?
He's fun to name-drop, but where is Bruce when you need him?:-)
-- This sig intentionally left blank.
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
sultanoslack
·
· Score: 1
Their existing customers either continue to pay up, or they have to open their own apps, which is probably not feasable for the licensee.
No, wrong. Most of the license sales are for internal cross-platform tools. At work we can use all of the GPL'ed libraries in the world so long as the binaries aren't ever released externally. If Qt for Windows was GPL'ed it would be perfectly legal for companies to use GPL'ed Qt for Windows in their in-house applications -- Trolltech's bread and butter.
Their existing customers either continue to pay up, or they have to open their own apps, which is probably not feasable for the licensee.
Since presumably you would be the copyright holder, you can give someone permission to link to anything you want. You can do this explicitly by adding an exception in your GPL notice.
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
Makarakalax
·
· Score: 1
Actually, the majority of their income is from people buying licences to develop for Windows who then keep the application in house. So of course you won't have heard of the apps.
It's naiive to assume that people always publicly release their software.
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
owenb
·
· Score: 1
No, wrong. Most of the license sales are for internal cross-platform tools. At work we can use all of the GPL'ed libraries in the world so long as the binaries aren't ever released externally. If Qt for Windows was GPL'ed it would be perfectly legal for companies to use GPL'ed Qt for Windows in their in-house applications -- Trolltech's bread and butter.
This is not my understanding of it. I develop in-house Qt apps (win and unix), and hold a dual licence - ie both platforms. I'm pretty sure the Trolls specifically don't allow you to use the GPL version (on unix) to develop in-house apps. Their FAQ says clearly that if you develop in a commercial setting (ie even if it doesn't get externally released) you must hold a commercial licence.
BTW, kudos to the Trolls for a great tool!
Re:They have to make SOME money!
by
jbolden
·
· Score: 1
I don't think it would work.
A writes library X and distributes it under the GPL B takes A's library and creates program Y which requires the library X to do anything. Thus Y is a derived work of X and hence also under the GPL C has licenses to library X which are commercial B gives Y to C, but since Y is under the GPL even after C compiles it with X; you have a new product X+Y which cannot be legally distributed.
Bahhhhh.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Too bad the guys that own Trolltech own SCO too. QT was a good product. I'm going with WxWindows for now. GTK's okay too, but their Windows support sucks.
And doesn't run native on OS X
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You people really struggle with the concept of "cross-platform", don't you?
it will
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
its being worked on. considering it long track record of being cross platform (linux/gtk, motif, windows, mac os9) it seems *you* have trouble with the concept, troll.
"wxWindows 2 can be used to develop and deliver applications on Classic Mac OS (e.g. Mac OS 8.x/9.x) both as Carbon and non-Carbon applications.
A Mac OS X port is in progress in order to be able to build wxWindows applications using the Apple Developer Tools that are delivered with every copy of Mac OS X. The Mac OS X port is based on and, for the most part, merged with the Carbon code for Classic Mac OS. "
fro, you arent fooling anyone...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
no one is fooled by your weak as efforts to astroturf support for your insanely broken "thought process" by pretending this AC that i'm replying to isnt you. try again jackass.
i agree that qt is high quality, but so are GTK+wx
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
and Wx are *free* *free* *free*... i get so tired of reading this insane "$1500 is not real money" bullshit argument
what about small shareware coders?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
to them a $1500 charge is *huge*... take a look around and you'll see tons and tons of utilities coded up by indivduals in their spare time hoping ot earn a little spare cash... and power to 'em
Re:what about small shareware coders?
by
elflord
·
· Score: 1
to them a $1500 charge is *huge*...
... which is why Trolltech aren't that interested in marketing to them. There's nothing wrong with being a shareware coder, but I can understand why Trolltech aren't very interested in that part of the
market.
Sure the boost syntax is a bit gnarlier, but not much. As on the flexibility of Qt it has a lot of limitations (http://doc.trolltech.com/3.2/moc.html).
// Boost.Signals usage:
class boost_signal_holder { public: void send_signal(int i) { boost_signal(i); }
Open source advocates?! What Open source advocates?
-- If you use Linux, please help development ofAutopac
also Licencing is an issue
by
aaron_pet
·
· Score: 1
I assume freetype is GPLed...
QT is available under multilpe licences..
-- Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
the guys that own Trolltech own SCO too
by
ShieldW0lf
·
· Score: 1
Is that true?
-- -1 Uncomfortable Truth
Trolltech is 64.7% employee-owned
by
eivindthrondsen
·
· Score: 1
Trolltech is mainly owned by its own employees. The SCO Group does own 1.6% of the shares, Canopy Group owns 4.1%. This does not constitute a controlling interest.
Not out yet :(.
why not just use freetype and be done with it?
* QSplashScreen (add splash screens to applications)
:P
I really hope that one will be able to disable this by a standard Qt-argument (--no-splash) or by a env-variable because I'm afraid this will be abused..
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
Is it "free"?
Isn't Quicktime 4 already out? And who's Trolltech? I thought Apple made Quicktime...
3.2 is out you say? Sure, if you want to spend $1550 to use it under Windows.
The newest version available for "free" use on Windows is 2.3. So much for QT being cross platform!
Trolltech has made QT useless for many people who need to be able to run their programs under linux and/or windows, and can't afford Trolltech's rediculous licences.
QT isn't free, far from it. It's far more expensive than the alternatives. If I'm not mistaken, a single QT licence even costs more than a copy of Visual Studio.NET!
when you have *free* alternatives ... utterly *free*, suddenly that $1500 is a whole lot of money.
... well if you wanted to start coding with QT... guess what? you just *DOUBLED* your expenses!
you say you have "more than $1550 of development software on my machine"
instead of buying qt, use a free toolket and buy yourself whole other build machine and a KVM switch and watch your productivity rise.
this whole "$1500 is nothing" argument is doublethink to the Nth degree.
"But stop the idiot idea that because something is free it makes it better"
i never said: "becasue others are free they must be better." what i said was: "stop the idiot idea that $1500 doesnt matter." its a stupid suggestion. $1500 is a lot of money, especially when there *ARE* free alternatives that compete.
When are they dumping the Meta Object Compiler (moc) and switch over to Boost.Signals?
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/investors.html?c id=10
Damn the bastards !!
What's your problem with letting them stay in business? To my knowledge, the majority of their income is from Windows licences. Qt gets purchased to develop Windows progs, the mutli-platform nature helps persuade the Boss, but mostly people like it because it's a fabulous set of classes.
:)
They know what they have to do to keep the money rolling in so that they can continue to release new versions of Qt. I can only assume you have your attitude because you don't trust them, you feel they are swindling you.
I trust them, so I supose we must agree to differ
Too bad the guys that own Trolltech own SCO too.
QT was a good product. I'm going with
WxWindows
for now. GTK's okay too, but their Windows
support sucks.
You people really struggle with the concept of "cross-platform", don't you?
its being worked on. considering it long track record of being cross platform (linux/gtk, motif, windows, mac os9) it seems *you* have trouble with the concept, troll.
"wxWindows 2 can be used to develop and deliver applications on Classic Mac OS (e.g. Mac OS 8.x/9.x) both as Carbon and non-Carbon applications.
A Mac OS X port is in progress in order to be able to build wxWindows applications using the Apple Developer Tools that are delivered with every copy of Mac OS X. The Mac OS X port is based on and, for the most part, merged with the Carbon code for Classic Mac OS. "
no one is fooled by your weak as efforts to astroturf support for your insanely broken "thought process" by pretending this AC that i'm replying to isnt you. try again jackass.
and Wx are *free* *free* *free* ... i get so tired of reading this insane "$1500 is not real money" bullshit argument
This guy's funnier than I am!
to them a $1500 charge is *huge* ... take a look around and you'll see tons and tons of utilities coded up by indivduals in their spare time hoping ot earn a little spare cash... and power to 'em
Sure the boost syntax is a bit gnarlier, but not much. As on the flexibility of Qt it has a lot of limitations (http://doc.trolltech.com/3.2/moc.html).
/* ... */}
o st::bind(
/* ... */}
l ot_holder_object,
// Boost.Signals usage:
class boost_signal_holder
{
public:
void send_signal(int i)
{
boost_signal(i);
}
void connect_slot(const boost_signal_type::slot_type& slot)
{
boost_signal.connect(slot);
}
typedef boost::signal<void (int)> boost_signal_type;
boost_signal_type boost_signal;
} boost_signal_holder_object;
class boost_slot_holder : public boost::signals::trackable
{
public:
void boost_slot(int) {
} boost_slot_holder_object;
// Connect signal to slot.
boost_signal_holder_object.connect_slot(bo
&boost_slot_holder::boost_slot, &boost_slot_holder_object, _1));
// Qt usage:
class qt_signal_holder : public QObject
{
Q_OBJECT
public:
void send_signal(int i)
{
emit qt_signal(i);
}
void connect_slot(const QObject* receiver, const char* receiver_slot)
{
QObject::connect(this, SIGNAL(qt_signal(int),
receiver, receiver_slot);
}
signals:
void qt_signal(int);
} qt_signal_holder_object;
class qt_slot_holder : public QObject
{
Q_OBJECT
public slots:
void qt_slot(int) {
} qt_slot_holder_object;
// Connect signal to slot.
qt_signal_holder_object.connect_slot(&qt_s
SLOT(qt_slot(int)));
Open source advocates?! What Open source advocates?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I assume freetype is GPLed...
QT is available under multilpe licences..
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
Is that true?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
For the full list of investors, see
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/investors.html
Eivind Throndsen, Trolltech AS