Slashdot Mirror
The Wifi Slugfest Over Portland's PGE Park
tomwhore writes "Portland's community wireless networking group, Personal Telco Project (PTP), recently knocked one into the ball park with a new WiFi node. The new node covers the area around and inside of Portland's PGE Ballpark. While free internet access would be welcome by most, PGE Park managers are not happy. They recently cut a deal giving Comcast exclusive rights to do up their networking. 'This is our stadium, and we run the communications for it,' said Chris Metz, a PGE Park spokesman. To find out more about the impact of the PTPs latest home run check out this article in the Oregonian and over at the PTP's website." Let's hope the park also puts a Faraday cage around the whole park to ensure radio silence.
Here is the Oreganian article
Wireless Net at PGE Park creates sparks
07/23/03
JEFFREY KOSSEFF
Todd Kimball did not expect to strike out with the management of PGE Park when his business provided free, wireless Internet access to spectators.
But Kimball did not anticipate that the park's staff would think the offering might run afoul of one of the park's major sponsors, Comcast, the region's biggest cable provider.
As it turns out, the arrangement does not vex Comcast, but the park management is squeamish anyway.
Unlike conventional Internet service over phone or cable lines, wireless access, or WiFi, is broadcast through the air, opening the potential for such conflicts.
"This is our stadium, and we run the communications for it," said Chris Metz, a PGE Park spokesman.
Last week, Kimball's business, Moonlight Staffing, began wirelessly transmitting high-speed Internet access from its office across the street from the home field of the Portland Beavers baseball team. At any given time, as many as about 60 people with laptops equipped for WiFi can surf the Web.
The connection is one of 107 "hot spots" donated to the Personal Telco Project, an effort dedicated to creating a free "cloud" of wireless Internet access throughout the Portland area.
But PGE Park's management is not cheering.
Metz said he worries Personal Telco's news release late last week -- entitled "PGE Park gets free Wi-Fi thanks to Personal Telco and Moonlight Staffing" -- implied the park management helped market the service.
"Their service might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's beyond the point," Metz said. "I just don't like the way it's been portrayed in the press release without our consent."
Nigel Ballard, the Personal Telco member who issued the release, said the park's staff let him into the stadium last week to test the connection. He doesn't understand why the park's management is so worried.
"We handed a free nice thing in their lap," Ballard said. "They didn't have to spend a penny."
But Comcast, which offers broadband service over its cable television lines, is one of the park's largest sponsors.
"I just don't want to step on anyone's toes," Metz said.
Comcast, however, is not in this ballgame.
Comcast prohibits its customers from distributing the company's Internet services to the public, said Sarah Eder, a Comcast spokeswoman.
But Moonlight Staffing broadcasts a high-speed service from Beaverton-based EasyStreet Online Services, not Comcast.
Comcast has no formal position on Personal Telco, Eder said.
Moonlight's Kimball is surprised that the service stirred up controversy.
"We were doing this to help the community."
Information about Personal Telco is available on the Web at www.personaltelco.net.
Jeffrey Kosseff: 503-294-7605; jeffkosseff at news.oregonian.com
Welcome To The Portland Personal Telco Project
We are here to promote and build public wireless networks through community support and education. This site will help you find what you need to know in order to get connected to the Wireless Community Network.
What is Personal Telco Project?
We are a volunteer group of Portlanders who believe this 802.11 (Wi-Fi) technology is both cool and empowering. We started out by turning our own houses and apartments into wireless hot spots, we then set about unwiring public locations such as parks and coffee shops. Currently we have over 100 live nodes, and of course we want to cover Portland with yet more.
Personal Telco Project or PTP has steadily grown over the last two years. We played an important part in Portland winning the most unwired city in America award recently. We're also proud to have helped educate many people as to what this wireless technology is all about, how to set up nodes and configure the equipment.
We hold monthly meetings as well as smaller weekly technical meeting and training days. We welcome participation at any level from everyone in the Portland area. Join our mailing list, ask questions, come to the meetings, put up your own node, its easy, and we're here to help things go smoothly for you.
Personal Telco Project is a Federal Tax Exempt 501c3 and a Oregon Non-profit organization. PTP wants to facilitate partnerships with local businesses and in doing so permit the raising of funds though tax-deductible contributions. Our aim is to build a bigger and better wireless network that everyone can use, free of cost.
At the end of the day we want to use this wireless technology to enable free mobile access to the Internet, to pass on our knowledge to others and to have fun doing it!
2.4Ghz is unlicensed. FCC won't touch it.
Just because 2.4Ghz use is permitted by the FCC does not mean that it is un-regulated.
Put up a 50 watt transmitter and see how long before the FCC touches it.
Free cell phone tracking
RTFA.
The courts aren't going to say anything in this case. Nobody's suing anyone. The only reason anyone is upset is because the owners of PGE Ballpark are "squeamish" about the wording of the Personal Telco Project's press release.
This is the biggest non-story since Skynyrd Guitarist Not Sure About War With Iraq
grep -ri 'should work'
The park manager is inventing some sort of conflict where none exists.
It's not even that bad. The park manager just said he's "squeamish".
But hey, why let facts get in the way of ignorant whining?
grep -ri 'should work'
PGE Park doesn't mind having it, and states how they don't mind it as they have no possition on wifi as Comcast isn't in the market. What PGE Park didn't like how PTP stated, "PGE Park gets Wireless Access thanks to PTP". To anyone who isn't in the free wifi 'know', this sounds like a business deal, and I completly side with PTP on this. The wording/catchphrase/marketing chosen for the announcement is not fair, and I can see why PGE Park has said what they did.
.. If anything the title of this slashdot article should be, "Wifi group PTP puts PGE Park in a bad situation with recent announcement."
PTP kinda put words in PGE Parks mouth, and makes it sound like PGE Park was fully involved. Future problems could be people complaining about wifi access to PGE Park, or any other 'internet' issues. Worst case could be someone can't make a stock sell, loses money, sues PGE Park because of the announcement he knew of "PGE Park gets wifi acces thanks to PTP", judge see's it, yells at PTP, case dropped, and PGE Park gets some bad press. It's not fair to PGE Park.
I personally provide free wifi for my neighborhood and joining the local wifi club soon. Since airspace is shared and not easily seperated there's some things you have to be careful of to make sure bad relations arn't formed in this process, and this is one case to be aware of for the future.. I hope PTP is more careful in the future.
my $.02
So, those movie theaters, restaurants, etc. that block cell phone signals are breaking the law?
I doubt anyone's going to get far with that line of reasoning. A dismissed lawsuit or three, maybe, but that's about it.
Obviously, any such employed technology has to be operated intelligently -- if you have some sort of active jamming on your property that happens to also jam signals for a mile in every direction, you'll be in trouble, because now you are (probably) broadcasting a signal illegally (if it's cell signals you're blocking, only a specific cellular carriers have the right to broadcast in the spectrum you're jamming).
But, assuming you can *reasonably* limit the extent of your blocking solution to the "ground level" extent of your property, I think you're good to go. And, aside from grossly overpowered jamming, it's hard to imagine a solution with that kind of fallout.
Xentax
You shouldn't verb words.
This is not the first time the PTP has run into a snag trying to offer free net access. Back a while ago there was a slight problem with the then new Starbucks hotposts at the "heart" of the city.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.s sf ?/xml/story.ssf/html_stand
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08/19/02
JEFFREY KOSSEFF and ERIC HAND
The world's biggest barista and a grass-roots group are squaring off in a wireless game of chicken at Pioneer Courthouse Square.
On one end stands Starbucks, which this week likely will begin marketing a paid service that lets its customers in Portland's living room connect their laptops wirelessly to the Internet. On the other is Personal Telco, a local group of computer hobbyists, which has provided the same service for free in the square since February.
Sure, there's room on the wireless spectrum for peaceful coexistence. But Starbucks, using wireless carrier T-Mobile, is transmitting its signal on the same channel Personal Telco has used for the past six months. Neither has budged.
The result? Both Starbucks customers and Personal Telco members may face slower speeds on the suddenly crowded channel.
The battle illustrates a growing problem with the increasingly popular technology known as wireless fidelity, or "Wi-Fi." Unlike cell phones, it operates on an unlicensed spectrum, so experts expect such disputes will become more common as demand grows.
Like cordless phones and walkie-talkies, nobody can own Wi-Fi's spectrum, and federal regulators have little authority over it, said Dale Hatfield, former chief of the Federal Communications Commission's Office of Engineering and Technology.
"There's no prior claims; there's no squatter's rights; there's nothing like that," said Hatfield, now a telecommunications professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder. "You both have to try to live with each other. I can't imagine why one wouldn't voluntarily move to one of the other channels that has less interference."
Adam Shand can imagine. The founder of Personal Telco says his group was there first and that in similar disputes nationwide, incumbents have successfully retained their wireless channels.
"If we take the stance that we're the little guy and start hopping around, what happens when there are no channels left?" Shand said.
Representatives of Starbucks and T-Mobile owner VoiceStream said they were unaware of any other wireless Internet presence in the square and had no comment on Personal Telco's objection.
Since late 2000, Personal Telco has persuaded individuals and businesses to donate high-speed Internet connections to its cause -- creating a "cloud" of free wireless access over the Portland area. Using specially designed "wireless ethernet" cards, Web surfers within a block or two of the donors' homes or businesses can tap into the signal.
The group has about 70 Internet access points throughout the Portland area. One was donated by WebCriteria, a Web consultancy whose eighth-floor offices overlook Pioneer Courthouse Square.
As many as six people have surfed the Web at the same time in the square using the WebCriteria link, often receiving connections faster than wired broadband connections, said Nigel Ballard, a
Personal Telco member and owner of wireless consultancy joejava.com.
To connect through Personal Telco, users can type a donor's identification number, available on the group's Web site, www.personaltelco.net. Their computers also can search for the Internet connection. And until recently, they've latched onto Personal Telco's signal in Pioneer Courthouse Square.
Now, they can inadvertently connect to the Starbucks paid service.
Although Starbucks and T-Mobile will likely begin marketing the service this week in the square, Shand said the paid service has been operating for a few weeks. Personal Telco users have reported problems.
"The performance of o
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
PGE park would be easy to cover the entire park with *regular* WAPs - let alone WAPs with good antennas. How much do you know about PGE Park? It is a small park with a couple open sides, and lots of businesses and apartments around - and on a hill. So it would be very easy to put a good directional antenna in a building up the hill next to the park and cover most of the stadium. Check out PortlandMaps Aerial Photo for a better context.
"This is our stadium, and we run the communications for it"
No, the FCC regulates radio communications. They have no right under existing law to control the radio transmissions on their property.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
The other side you amazingly call ignorant simply thinks that PGE Stadium is smoking crack to declare themselves the owners of all communications in the stadium. Do they think they can pick and chose which radio stations broadcast into the stadium, what cell phone company you can use? How about what newspaper can send repersentatives, or who can take pictures? They are nuts, but maybe you think they are right?
This place could be for you. You seem to like telling other people how to act and think. Do you like it when other people tell you what you can bring to a ballgame. Maybe you fit right in with the other sheeple in the world who don't mind being told what electronic devices they can use, what beer they can drink, what snaks they can pay through the nose for, what adverts they MUST see and listen to, and all that other money grubbing shit that takes much fun out of going to a ballgame. Do you mind being thought of as a "captive" audience?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
You are misinformed on several levels:
1) this is minor league baseball (AAA, the step just below the majors)
2) they probably do have contract for some form of television broadcasting but it's probably only a few games a year
3) most stadiums allow cameras but not broadcast of play by play although if you ASK you'd probably be able to work a deal - this is all about selling tickets and getting people interested in coming to the ballpark.
Hotdogs are probably $3.50.
And DO enjoy the game. Minor league baseball is a hoot - and at the AAA level it's darn good baseball.