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The Wifi Slugfest Over Portland's PGE Park
tomwhore writes "Portland's community wireless networking group, Personal Telco Project (PTP), recently knocked one into the ball park with a new WiFi node. The new node covers the area around and inside of Portland's PGE Ballpark. While free internet access would be welcome by most, PGE Park managers are not happy. They recently cut a deal giving Comcast exclusive rights to do up their networking. 'This is our stadium, and we run the communications for it,' said Chris Metz, a PGE Park spokesman. To find out more about the impact of the PTPs latest home run check out this article in the Oregonian and over at the PTP's website." Let's hope the park also puts a Faraday cage around the whole park to ensure radio silence.
1. Volunteers enable wireless access at ballpark
2. They put out a news released titled, "PGE Park gets free Wi-Fi thanks to Personal Telco and Moonlight Staffing"
3. PGE Park management (understandably) is concerned that the news release implies their participation in this effort, and this might offend a major park sponsor, Comcast.
4. Comcast replies that they don't care. Life goes on.
They call this a "slugfest?" Yeesh...
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Let's see what the courts say on this one. I would love the courts to say that it was illegal for an outside provider to broadcast network signals onto your property.
Can anyone else see the ramifications of this?
If they can and do block off the free access on their property only, more power to 'em. Otherwise, they can take a hike.
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Sometimes we just need to do without technology altogether. Pick up a hotdog and enjoy the game, don't worry about your wireless networking. I sure don't.
Sincerely,
Letter
>Can anyone else see the ramifications of this?
Actually, I'm guessing that they're upset that anyone with a video camera and a wifi link can broadcast the games live to the internet. Wouldn't that suck for the "you guys didn't buy enough tickets so we're going to blackout the broadcast" crowd.
Tell it to the FCC. They control the airwaves in your little stadium, not you.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
The poster writes, "They recently cut a deal giving Comcast exclusive rights to do up their networking," when the article clearly states multiple times that Comcast isn't an issue. Comcast is merely a sponsor of the park. The ballpark manager is being too sensitive to the wording of the PTP's press release which could be read to suggest that PGE park management worked with the PTP to set up the wireless access when in fact it is being provided from a location across the street. The park manager is inventing some sort of conflict where none exists. Be sure to read the article before engaging in knee-jerk bashing of Comcast.
Huh?
Comcast, however, is not in this ballgame.
Comcast prohibits its customers from distributing the company's Internet services to the public, said Sarah Eder, a Comcast spokeswoman.
But Moonlight Staffing broadcasts a high-speed service from Beaverton-based EasyStreet Online Services, not Comcast.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
"'This is our stadium, and we run the communications for it,' said Chris Metz, a PGE Park... "
What about cell phone communications?
Or palm pilots and the like?
What about communicating to the opposing team that you prefer them (ie, those cheering for the opposition must sit in section 9)?
Now the last example is quite silly, but what is the difference between wireless internet access and cellphone access? Do they have the legal rights to control such?
This really sounds like a publicity stunt to me. Why? Well, think about it. How cost effective is it to provide WiFi access to a site that is used, at best, a few hours a week? Contrast this to airports, bus stations, Starbucks etc. that are occupied a majority of the hours every day. Yup, sounds like a publicity stunt to me.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Sure sounded good, though, no?
"Fuzzy-Seattle-Populist-WiFi-Free-Node in slugfest! versus Big-Greedy-Sports-Cable-Corporate-Luddites."
Wow! I was getting all set for a Thousand-Post-Pile-On before I read the article.
Damn shame, this reality. Always getting in the way of a good story...
PGE park is used for a lot more than just baseball. In addition, there's a heavily-used lightrail stop just across the street from the park, which would probably benefit from free WiFi as well. Still, the image of some dork reading Slashdot during a ball game and catching a fly ball in the face is pretty hilarious.
This is another example of a new service that is not yet regulated, and the companies that are regulated are getting hot around the collar over it.
The workers laid off by the cotton loom didn't like it either, but see where they are today.
Better yet; don't sell anything but baseball and snacks; you wankers.
If someone opens a node and it extends over the park, the only thing they can do is do an intensive search of everyone coming into the park to make sure they aren't carrying anything that could access the node. I don't think that would go over very well.
Overrated? Few people? Your either stupid, or just have not really looked at the *scene* that hard. First of all, there are many projects what are setting up community waps and wlans. Some of a few mentionable ones are BAWUG and FreeNet.
Nobody cares about starbucks wireless internet access when they can associate with the AP down the street using a pringles can! Even users who dont know how to use external antennas can choose which access point they want to associate with. Which would you pick, the free one down the street, or the pay one at Starbucks/McD's?
As for so few people taking advantage of it, how many people do you think have implemented wireless to cover an apartment complex? Their house? Neighborhood? ALOT. I dont know the numbers, but Have read many, many, many success stories and am constantly doing ap setups for local businesses, as well as consumers.
Another venue you have probably not thought about is the WISP field. There is actually a verry successfull WISP in my city called KeyOn. For dialup proces they offer high speed internet via wireless. Heres the best part: they are not loosing money! People are coming to their service like bees to honey. Whats that say about "few people"? //WTF?!?!?
/root //Yay!
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C:\DOS
Speaking at Defcon 12 - Credit Card Networks Revisted: Pen
Does that mean if I am not allowed to use my cell phone if they have a deal with a different cell provider?
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
Imagine if they gave PacBell or whoever it was exclusive rights to the phone network including pay phones and tried to ban cell phones within their park.
On the other hand, we better start on the offensive or we'll lose all these fights. By we, I mean the scientific community. We need the NSF to take on wifi the way they did the original internet, or else it will all be pay as you go and free nodes will be made illegal.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
You people saying "why would you want to bring your laptop to a game" aren't getting the point.
What about WiFi PDAs? Great for sending that quick email or text message. What about WiFi cellphones? In order to replace the evil telecommunications giants, we need an IP connection _everywhere_. That's more important than being able to surf porn on your laptop.
Think future technologies, people!
--D
I just heard/read somthing (probably here...) concerning radio waves and property. That the courts can't privatize radio waves (ie disallowing people unscrambling broadcast signals) or all the broadcasters could be arrested for trespassing. This is sort of an inverse relationship, but proofs can be made that way...
"My father once told me that respect for the truth comes close to being the basis for all morality." - Muad'Dib
In some ways, you can't even limit a signal's access to your property. The Farraday cage idea is actually illegal.
The FCC takes a very dim view of people cutting out certain frequencies from the public spectrum, and for good reason. If you cut a broadcast off in your property, you've just blackholed everyone that sits downstream (down-cast?) from you. That makes it interference with the public airwaves, and therefore a crime.
Imagine this scenario: two radio stations compete for listeners...one of them buys a house very near the competitors broadcast towers and then black-holes their broadcast to huge sections of the city. Under your argument this would be legal, as the person owning the house doesn't want this signal in their property.
Yes. Even in the minors.
They can't prevent reception. Thanks to the DMCA, they can prevent descrambling. See the DSS arrests and the DirectTV vs. Everyone who ever bought a satellite programmer online debate, both featured here.
And property owners can scramble/block waves, as long as they use an FCC approved device, otherwise they can be considered transmitting on privatized bands. In the case of wireless networking, they could use their own Wi-Fi stations to block access to others. I believe that Starbucks was doing this. Buy the strongest transmitter available, and broadcast on all channels and you have essentially hijacked the spectrum, legally. The laws that allow us to have wi-fi are a double-edged sword.
It seems to me from the article that they aren't up in arms against wireless interenet access. More that they're covering their asses against a major sponsor. The press release makes it sound like the park had something to do with arranging the WAP that is run through a competitor to Comcast. So before we start calling names towards their management, remember that the ballpark is just trying to keep out of any lawsuits.
With the previously touted node in Portland's Pioneer Square now down, I can't help but feel that Portland's award by Wired magazine as the "most unwired city" to be undeserved, and the PersonalTelco group's leadership merely touting these press releases to further their own private consultancies.
Back in the days of Minox spy cameras, that might have made sense. Now it's just silly. Does your prohibition also mean no cell phones with cameras in them? How about laptop computers with cameras in them? Or digital cameras with video record features (which is most of them)?
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Sounds like the Portland Beavers' stadium is run by the same hall-monitor personalities that tend to populate HR departments. People whose mission in life is to imagine reasons why things shouldn't be allowed to happen, and to go running to the proper authorities to give them ample opportunity to object.
In this case the imagined authority entity that might be offended, Comcast, doesn't care. Even after assurances that they don't care and that everything is fine, hall monitor Metz isn't letting that dampen his spirits.
"I just don't want to step on anyone's toes," Metz said.
Yes Metz, we know you just want to do the right thing. Comcast knows, everybody knows. If WiFi at the stadium turns out to be a problem, we all know that it's Not Your Fault. So please do everybody a favor and shut the fuck up.