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Clock Ticking for Hubble

DoraLives writes "Ok then, what are we going to do with Hubble? Eventually, it MUST come down. The New York Times has a piece that addresses this less than pleasant (at least for the astronomical community) subject. Additionally "The decision about what happens then has been complicated by the breakup of the Columbia." Read all about it."

16 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. Link to the story that does not require registr... by CokeBear · · Score: 5, Informative
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  2. Re:Taco Bell by Synithium · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1231447. stm

    In case someone was wondering about the reference.

  3. No by s20451 · · Score: 3, Informative

    If sending up a Shuttle to re-establish a fresh orbit for Hubble would be cheaper than building a new and improved Hubble and launching it?

    Development cost of Hubble: $2 billion
    Cost of one space shuttle launch: $600 million

    So you can get in excess of three launches for the same cost of the Hubble.

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  4. Re:Must come down? by henley · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hubble is in Low Earth Orbit (LEO). It's got an orbital velocity of around 4KM/Sec.

    To raise the orbit far enough to get to the Moon, takes a total deltaV of 7KM/S (or another 3KM/S on it's current speed).

    The Earth orbits the sun at around 30KM/S, give or take. So to send something - anything - into the sun requires a deltaV of the same amount: you've got to cancel out the existing 30KM/Sec velocity, otherwise you're just going to send the object into a different orbit around the sun

    The fastest any object has left the earth is around 8KM/S for the interplanetary probes (Pioneer, Voyager, Cassini, Galileo etc). That's as fast as the human race has ever gotten anything going[*]. Without a major advance in rocket technology (i.e. away from chemical rockets), that's about as fast as we're going to get anything going, too.

    As a reference, the on-orbit manoever capability of the Shuttle, is a total of about 100M/S

    Oh, and Hubble has much MUCH less manoever capability than this

    This is why things are de-orbited, rather than "sent towards the sun" or further out. De-orbiting from LEO requires only a little "kiss" of deceleration before the orbit intersects the atmosphere, from where friction does the rest. The only exceptions are Satellites in higher orbits (e.g. GPS in the 12-hr / 12,000KM orbits, or Geostationary sats) which tend to be "retired" in slightly higher orbits because these are thought to be more stable over longer (geological) time periods than lower ones, and there's not enough residual manoever capability to lower the orbit enough to graze the atmosphere


    [*] = However, we've learnt the trick of gravitational assists which lets Mother Nature (or Newton, or Einstein depending on your religious orientation :-) speed up our probes considerably at the expense of the orbital energy of the planet we're assisting from.

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  5. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by hobbesmaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article said that Hubble can stay aloft in current status until 2013. The shuttles are not going to be grounded for a decade.

  6. Re:*sigh* by henley · · Score: 4, Informative

    A few comments on your proposal:

    • The Radio-Isotope-Generator (RTG) power sources on Voyager et al have some significant problems with regard to the political implications of getting them up there. You may or may not recall the farce that surrounded Cassini's launch, and the fears that a launch accident would have spread plutonium dust over the eastern seaboard.
    • Disregarding the above, RTG's aren't a magic bullet. After 10 years in space, Voyager was down to 1/2 the original power. I've got no idea what Hubble's power requirements are, but I wouldn't assume you can just drop a couple o' RTGs in and stop worrying...
    • Rather more serious than this, however, is that Hubble is a big satellite. Over 11 tonnes. 14 times heavier than the Voyager probes, which took the heaviest available launcher (a Titan-IIIc) to throw them out of earth orbit. Short of reviving the Saturn-V, there's not a lot on the shelf that'll get Hubble much out of it's current Low Earth Orbit. Oh, and when it does go out there, most of the optics are likely to be knackered by the transit through the Van Allen belts....
    • The exact mission you're describing - go a ways out there and look back at ourselves - has already been attempted. Lookup Triana aka "Gore-sat" for more details. To summarise: It's a great PR effort but the science is lousy.
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  7. Re:why down? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Consider what you are suggesting for a sec, OK?

    (1) Space Shuttles cannot push it up to much higher earth orbit.

    (2) hence you will require a propulsion system to be attached to the HST and then launch into a new, higher orbit.

    (3) however, the HST is not designed to take such ad-hoc propulsion system.

    (4) and neither NASA has such convenient propulsion system sitting around (Air Force does,
    IIRC).

    (5) in any case, you have to do R&D to find a way to attach such system and safely launch the HST into a new orbit (consider multitude of risks; the major one that I see is supersonic vibration generated by the rocket).

    (6) knowing this is NASA, it'd take a decade to get that sort of things built and launched. Waste of the limited resource. They'd rather build a new telescope (or try to build) with that resource.

    In short, I guess it CAN be done. But not without additional resource and public support.

    -b

  8. Why Hubble needs servicing by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hubble is an overgrown version of a digital camera. As CCDs improve, you eventually want to replace the ones up there with better ones. This has already been done a couple of times, but electronics keeps improving.

    It also has batteries and solar cells that provide power, and these wear out and have to be replaced.

    Hubble needs to point itself at things, and it does so using heavy spinning rotors, which are
    turned one way, and by Newton's Law, Hubble
    turns the other way. There are 5 of these
    "Control Moment Gyros", or CMGs. Being mechanical devices, they wear out and break over time.

    You need 3 out of 5 to be working to point Hubble, and if they have an MTBF of 12.5 years (which is pretty good for a mechanical device), then you need to visit every 5 years and replace 2 to keep Hubble running.

    Hubble has no propulsion and you don't want any until you are ready to kill it. Fluids sloshing in tanks will mess up your pointing of the telescope, and any exhaust from a rocket will contaminate the optical surfaces. When the Shuttle visits, the thrusters are 50-75 feet away, which is much less of a problem than if your booster pack is on the back end of the telescope only 2 feet from the science instruments.

    And yes, IAARS, in fact the first group I worked at at Boeing back in 1981 supplied the graphite/epoxy frame that holds Hubble's mirrors in place.

    Daniel

  9. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by SiO2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    We just have to move on and produce a successor.

    A successor to Hubble is already in the works. See this article on Yahoo! news.

    From the article:

    But its days (and nights) have always been numbered. NASA has long planned to end Hubble's spectacular run and bring it down in 2010 to make way in the budget for the James Webb Space Telescope, scheduled to be launched in 2011.

    SiO2

  10. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Columbia was the only shuttle capable of holding the Hubble in the cargo bay -- the other 3 orbiter have the airlock in the front portion of the bay, which gives extra room in the crew area. When they built the Hubble, they literally had about 3 inches of extra space to fit it in the shuttles.

    The four orbiters are not identical, they've been upgraded and changed as time went on. It was years after the Hubble was launched that they upgraded the airlocks in the other orbiters, purposely keeping the Columbia with the old design so it could be used on Hubble service missions.

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  11. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by LMCBoy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, calling JWST a successor to HST is a bit of a stretch, actually. JWST will be great for its intended mission of studying high-redshift galaxies, but it is a specialized instrument; not the general-purpose workhorse that HST exemplified. Plus, it will be at a lagrange point, and therefore completely unserviceable. So much for upgrades.

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  12. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by PPGMD · · Score: 5, Informative
    One little problem with that Discovery was the orbiter that delivered the Hubble Space Telescope, during STS-31, in the first place.

    Discovery was also the shuttle that did the 1999 maintenance (STS-103). Endeavor did the 1993 maintenance (STS-61), and finally Columbia did the 2002 maintenance (STS-109).

    The maintenance can be preformed by any of the shuttles as long as they have the Payload Deployment and Retrieval System (the robotic arm).

    The retrieval (as it appears that they may want to do) is another story, but I believe that they can remove the upgraded airlock.

  13. Re:no.. by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is a ton of debris in space, there is no reason to bring all of that down

    Actually, there is. It's a hazard to satellites and orbiting spacecraft. A few years back, one of the shuttles had a small crater made in its windshield when it was hit by an orbiting *paint chip*.

    There's just so much space junk and it's moving so fast, that it's tough if not impossible to safely intercept and capture. NORAD actually tracks and catalogs every piece of it large enough to get a radar return. When a shuttle is up, they constantly monitor its path for errant debris so it can maneuver if necessary. I believe they do the same for the ISS.

    ~Philly

  14. Hubble's orbit will decay if not visited by alispguru · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hubble was designed to be serviced, on-orbit, by the Shuttle.

    It's actually worse than that. Orbits at altitudes reachable by the Shuttle decay rapidly, because the atmosphere's a little too thick up there - satellites like the Hubble, with big solar arrays, are particularly vulnerable.

    The most important thing that happens on Hubble servicing missions has nothing to do with fixing hardware. The Shuttle catches the Hubble, then fires its maneuvering engines and carries the Hubble up to a higher orbit.

    I know this because my company did some computer modeling for NASA to help them predict how often these reboosts would be needed. The amount of atmospheric drag varies with sunspot activity - increased solar output makes the atmosphere "puff up" and makes orbits decay faster.

    And guess what? The Space Station is in an orbit reachable by the Shuttle, and also has big solar panels, so it needs reboosting by the Shuttle too.
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  15. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Informative
    The Columbia was the only shuttle capable of holding the Hubble in the cargo bay -- the other 3 orbiter have the airlock in the front portion of the bay, which gives extra room in the crew area.
    The ODS (Orbiter Docking System) airlock is not a permanent installation, and can be removed at will. Currently it's normally left installed because it's required for ISS docking missions and removing it represents uneeded complication and expense.
    The four orbiters are not identical, they've been upgraded and changed as time went on.
    Not true at all. NASA makes every effort to maintain the configurations as close as possible. Multiple configurations increase the difficulty of mission planning and training, and increase the total operating costs of the fleet as well.
    It was years after the Hubble was launched that they upgraded the airlocks in the other orbiters, purposely keeping the Columbia with the old design so it could be used on Hubble service missions.
    Not quite correct. The problem is that Columbia was heavier than her sisters, and with the ODS installed was hard pressed to carry a useful payload to the ISS. (Which after all is the Shuttle's primary mission.) Because of this, Columbia was left without the ODS semi-permanently installed to allow the flight of Spacehab and other missions that required the full length of the cargo bay.
  16. Re:Complicated by Columbia? by Gumshoe · · Score: 5, Informative
    JWST will be great for its intended mission [...] it will be at a lagrange point, and therefore completely unserviceable.


    The lagrange point in question is Lagrange Point 2 (L2) of the Earth-Sun system. A notable characteristic of L2 is that it is always on the night side of Earth orbit (ie. the Earth is always in between L2 and the Sun). Clearly, this is advantageous for a telescope like the James Webb.

    As a side note, L1 is opposite to L2 and is therefore, always on the day side. As might be expected, L1 is currently occupied by The Solar and Helioscopic Observatory, or SOHO

    Further, the reason why satellites at either of these points are (currently) unservicable is simply a consequence of distance; approx. 100th of 1 AU, or, 4 times the distance of Earth to Moon.