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White Wolf Ends The World Of Darkness
KrinnDNZ writes "So White Wolf has been providing us geeks with angsty roleplaying pleasure as vampires, werewolves, and various other beasties, ever since the early 90s. Guess what - it's over. I'll have to admit that it takes guts to have your RPGs' 'big story' include the end of their world, but they're doing it, and they've got a date, 171 days from now." This seems to mean that well-known pen-and-paper RPG titles like Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, and Hunter: The Reckoning are genuinely being retired.
I have a good friend who's former roomie works for white wolf... I wonder if he's going to have a job in 170 odd days... I hope my company doesn't announce a personal armageddon anytime soon...
wordtrip.com
I was never huge into these games. But, it sure influenced a whole genre of RPG, impacted the themes of a whole lot of MUSHes, and was certainly the chief theme of LARPs, if not the originator of the style.
So much for being immortal. Now I feel really old--I've seen a class of gaming come and go.
--
$tar -xvf
> This seems to mean that well-known pen-and-paper RPG titles like Vampire: The Masquerade,
> Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, and Hunter: The Reckoning are genuinely being retired.
I think you didn't read *all* of the press release:
> An all-new World of Darkness launches in August of 2004.
Which only makes sense, really. Putting a permanent end to WoD would mean essentially White Wolf was going out of business. What else do they do?
Chris Mattern
Maybe now I won't have to worry about getting jumped by a LARP 'vampire' when I cut through the public park to get home after being out partying Saturday night.
It's not that I'm afraid, it's just that I'm tired of kicking their asses.
"Yeah, lets play the final wrapup, where no matter what your characters do, they are all going to DIE in a massive battle that they can ultimately do nothing to change."
*grin*
...in 2000, when they did a year-long promotion, which was kinda like a long, drawn-out Y2K thing.
I sit here looking at the Mage poster on my wall: "The Traditions stand in ruins... The Technocracy has won. Join the last stand in the war for reality." (Revised Edition -- March 2000)
Just an excuse for a new edition of everything. It's sad when a once-creative company runs out of ideas. "Let's do the whole thing over again," is a sad excuse for an original concept. But "Demon," "Mummy," and "Engel" just aren't selling like "Vampire" and "Werewolf." Heck, they aren't even selling like "Mage" and "Changling."
But they are selling like "Wraith."
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I'm rather glad WoD is gone. I've never liked it.
:)
That's not to say that WW hasn't dropped a few great games; Mage (in its various forms) has always been a great game regardless of being set in the WoD, Exalted continues to amaze me, and the Sword and Sorcery series simply rock. I could go on.
But the whole World of Darkness itself... I've never found it appealing. Sorta grated on the nerves, if you will. Never really understood the point, I suppose. I guess I need more angst in my life, who knows? I'll certainly lose no sleep knowing it's gone, though. Maybe now WW can do more of the "different" stuff.
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
When Arthur Conan Doyle got sick of Sherlock Holmes, he had him fall off Reichenbach Falls. When Gene Roddenberry (or maybe it was Leonard Nimoy) got sick of Spock, they had that corny scene in the reactor room. I could go on and on. It never works. Face it, it's not about the story, it's about making a living!
It will be interesting to see how they handle that, obviously 4th edition will still have vampires and werewolves and such around, but it seems like the Technocracy winning the Ascension would pretty much put an end to all the other supernatural stuff. Once the Technocs have complete control of both the mundane and magical human worlds and don't have to worry about the Traditions anymore, i expect it wouldn't take much time for their focused attention to deal with all the other elements they wish to eliminate.
It'll be interesting to hear about (i'm still catching up with the changes to 3rd edition) but i'm not sure if i'll be interested in buying the new sourcebooks and playing in that world.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I just want to point out to /.ers that if White Wolf's server's down, I provide all the pertinent info at WolfSpoor, my WW-themed slashdot equivalent.
Anyhoo, yes, the World of Darkness game lines are indeed ending. For sure. Overwith.
But they're bringing in a "new World of Darkness" in August 2004. Maybe it'll be like Marvel's Ulitmates: a reimagining of the same concepts. Maybe there'll be compeltely different critters. Maybe it's something no one else has thought of. Who knows?
White Wolf has more than enough to keep them busy in the guise of Exalted, Dark Ages, and their massive Sword & Sorcery line (incl. Scarred Lands, Necromancer Games, Malhavoc Press, Ravenloft, Gamma World, Everquest RPG, Warcraft RPG, et al). Plus they're going to be doing something with Adventure again, I hear.
But the World of Darkness is indeed their biggest moneymaker overall. It's a ballsy move to actually usher in the End Times, but they're not stupid. It'll be back in some way.
Soylens viridis homines es
From reading the press release I did not get the impression that all existing source-, rule- and other books are suddenly going spontaneously self-destruct, once the "Time of Judgement" comes around. I really liked playing Vampire, because it was completely different than any RPG I had encountered before. The way we played it the average session required about five die rolls all in all, but explicitly rewarded good role-playing.
I find White Wolf's decision commendable. Naturally they are trying to sell as many books related to "The End" as possible, but following through with all the hints and promises of the last years still is a gutsy thing to do. They are trying to pull an "Enter the Matrix" in the process, though. The next Vampire game by Activision is supposed to offer an unique view at the impending apocalypse and gamers who want to get the whole picture are strongly encouraged to get the game.
A new world of Darkness, based in 2004, rather than 1992 might be exciting--you never know. I just have a hunch that the rules concerning computers are going to be a lot more detailed, than they were in the old books I know. I don't know if that is a good thing.
Hank! White!
"White Wolf will release a special addition to its popular Vampire: The Eternal Struggle trading-card game based on the Time of Judgment. 'The Gehenna expansion allows VTES to partake in this exciting storyline,' said Steve Wieck, White Wolf's Director of Card Projects. "We're committed to continued support of VTES, and this set of boosters is only the first part of that."
Even if WW dropped support for V:tES after ToJ it'd still go. We kept the game going when Wizards of the Coast dropped it and we'll keep it going if WW ever drops it.
Erik Carlsson
Prince of Ramstein GE
Vampire the Eternal Struggle
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
"I'll have to admit that it takes guts to have your RPGs' 'big story' include the end of their world, but they're doing it"
It would take guts for them to have created an RPG that leaves the stories in the hands of the people playing the game...I hate their mania for "novelizing" their worlds and dictating what happens to everyone and everything.
Crap like this is exactly why mainstream RPGs have failed to deliver--what are groups supposed to do, sit around and READ these damn things out loud?
If you want to write fiction, write it. If you want to create an environment for RPGs, create it and then let the players and GMs sit in the driver seat.
The world is ending. Nyah.
And this long long speach comes to one point... That-- OOOO! QUARTER!
I've always believed that the lifespan of WoD was directly tied to the goth craze of the 90's: when there were no new goths kidz, WoD would dissappear.
With seemingly every other publisher in the RPG industry joining the d20 lemming parade, lining WoTC's pockets while slitting their own throats (including WW, in their other product lines), I hope WW has the foresight to not base the second generation of their flagship products on d20. A lot of people don't like d20 (myself included), and I keep hearing that number is increasing. D&D 3.5 won't help matters... enough people are annoyed with having to buy all the books again that I think 3.5E sales will stabilize about twice as fast as 3E (which took about 6 months).
And, putting a minor version number on something that's not software is just plain stupid IMO.
Microsoft:software::WotC:RPG
Windows:OS::d20:RPG
The worst part about this is not that White Wolf are bringing WoD (modern) to an end. It is that they are abusing their copyright privlidge in order to do so. Yet another creation of humanity will disappear into archives for 84 (more) years, and be completely forgotten, save for those who already have the books.
No copyright holder should have the right to withdraw a work from publication without ceding their copyright. If it doesn't pay to keep it in publication anymore, the benefit offered by copyright has been fully realised, and the work should fall into the public domain.
i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
I was in the Borders up by the Arboretum, cruising the computer section. I saw this really hot chic and she was looking at the linux books ! I'm no linux freak (barely even a computer person, learning C in a class I'm taking now, installed linux so I could learn postgreSQL for a job that never materialized, working as a lowly filer at a title company) but I decided to start talking to her. She said she worked for BAE and they were switching some Oracle shit over to Linux and she was learning it. We talked and had a coffee there and exchanged email addresses. I did ok because my two roommates use linux all the time, so I tossed out some buzzwords and bashed SCO. Little did I know what I was in for.
A week later we agree to meet for a bite to eat and start talking.
My first warning was that she told me the last three relationships she's had were people she met on Evercrack. That, and the fact that she called it "Evercrack", should have made me run right then. But didn't know. I wasn't even sure what Everquest was, or what a role playing game was. So I toss out that I've heard of it from my roommates and ask her what she likes about it.
It turns out this girl plays more than 6 hours a day on weekdays ! She's part of some "raiding party" that has more than 100 people and started yammering about how they had standards for admission in ping times and bandwidth and stuff. It goes on and on. She won't shut up. She writes down a link to her character online and gives it to me. She stares at me after I get the napkin, so I feel obligated it put in my pocket like I'm gonna check it. (She is some magician-elf-Romulan thing.) She starts telling me how it is a real problem that her character can't see in the dark. "It's get dark in the everquest world too, you know!" Yeah, that's a "real" problem.
I'm out of my league and struggling here, but I'm not giving up. Remember she's hot. I remember my two roommates (the linux dudes) having a conversation with a third nerd (hey that rhymes) about some game that was a top secrete local project funded by some rich dude -- basically, the idea was a distributed P2P world, so each player got to edit and make rules for the piece of the universe hosted on their computer. There was some contrived shit with giant cylindrical space stations, to allow for the fact that you could visit anybody, not just the physical neighbors in a flat world. I realize now it is sick and gay and will probably lead to school shootings, but I'm trying to bang this chic so I tell her everything I remember.
While I am talking her face slowly smooths out and gets very calm, and then her eyes starting getting narrow. I think this is because she's interested.
As soon as I finish, she informs me in this dead, calm voice that I am part of a conspiracy of corporate powers envious of Evercrack's (yeah she still called it that) success and plotting to bring it down by siphoning off all the new gamers who didn't know better than to fall for our false sirens rather than join the one true game, evercrack. She actually said the words "the evercrack world is just as valid as the real world."
I get really scared for some reason, but I start defending my self. First, I have no designs on the evercrack world and I'm not even the one writing the competeing game. (She interrupts and accuses me of making fun of evercrackers.) I said I planned to try evercrack myself, since it sounded fun. (I'm sure my face betrayed the fact that I will never go near it.) She accused me of thinking that playing Evercrack was a waste of time, which I never even said. She wouldn't be stopped. At this point she also said I rudely made her feel fat by ordering a smaller meal than she did. (She was skinny and very hot.)
Her voice kept rising, and some people were listening. I sort of calmed down and realized I had no chance in hell, but that she probably wasn't armed so there was no danger. I calmly pointed out that she was totally fucking nuts and she got up and stomped o
Hi,
As a long-time WW player, I have a bit of an ambiguous feeling about The End (tm). On the one hand, it is a good thing to end the WoD as we know it. The VtM setting was complete enough; there wasn't much to say anymore. It is exhausted. As far as I've heard from others, WtA and MtA had the same problem. It is good that the folks at WW finally wrap it up.
OTOH, I sincerely hope that this is not an excuse for *another* revised version of all their WoD games. Furthermore, this whole End of the World business reeks of marketing.
I hope that WoD V2.0 will be something worthy. Please don't let it be a new WoD with just some other names.
der Joachim
Geek runner, motorcyclist and professional know-it-all
this evening, I'll just borrow it off your drive and take it for a spin.
If you create something, it's yours. You don't owe the world anything.
Damn it all, I'm having a hard enough time trying to convince myself to go by the new D&D source books. Now I have to go update my WW ones as well?! Drek! I'm going back to Shadowrun chummer.
I do appreciate what they are doing. How many times has a TV show had the 'And someone is going to die...' commercial but then it turns out to be Bobby's cousin that is introduced 5 minutes into the show? It's nice to have a continually growing storyline to work with, but at the same time, you can stick with whatever version of sourcebooks you enjoy most.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
some friends of mine and I a couple years ago wrote an entirely new setting for the WoD that takes place after an Apocalyptic event, we never decided what it was. Everyone believed it was their particular expected apocalypse, but was just something mundane in reality. The idea was sent to some WW representitives so we could make sure there were no copyright problems as we were doing it for a public LARP. We never heared back from them. So I wonder if we filled their heads with ideas. :p
Anyone who knows their Ghostbusters (which, incidentally, made a pretty neat RPG itself back in the day) knows that the idea of the Dead rising from their graves (Which the whole vampirism thing has at its heart) is an obvious sign of end times.
The End Of The World Is Nigh is the only logical place for the story to go, then.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
...they did this before: They announced some trademarked name for 2000 ("The Year of the Apocalypse" or "The Year of the Reckoning" or some such) and said it would mean the end of the World of Darkness. And what it meant was they issued new editions for their most popular World of Darkness games.
Each game had some cataclysmic event tailored for it. In "Mage" it was the victory of the Technocracy over the Traditions. I agree with your assessment that this was not much of a departure from what went before. Instead of being the rag-tag representatives of the struggling Traditions, players were asked to be the rag-tag remnants of the dead Traditions. But it was portrayed as the end of the Traditions and, hence, part of the end of the World of Darkness. The chantries were wiped out. The Horizon Realms were no longer accessible. There were similar Armageddon scenarios for "Vampire" and "Werewolf."
All of this had a high enough Lameness Quotient that I didn't go out and buy the new edition. But that doesn't change the fact that they portrayed it at the start of the year much as they are portraying this.
But the poster was really cool.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Am I the only one that noticed the actual theme to Werewolf? THE APOCALPSE. The end is here and that was the whole point, to die in a blaze of glory, any werewolf player could/would tell you that. The war was lost in the industrial revolution.
Try the Mudconnector. Their search feature should be plenty good for you.
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
...but pragmatic.
The dirty little secret of role-playing games is that most of the money is made off of supplements. While the games themselves offer players the chance for truly creative gameplay, many gamemasters (and many players) want to be led by the hand.
Perhaps this is true of freedom in general: We all want to be free, but many of us end up gravitating towards some cultural status quo.
White Wolf has always recognized this and tailored their games towards players who want hand-holding and lots of "atmospheric scene-setting" advice. At the same time, they also designed their games so anyone could play as creative a campaign as they wanted. In fact, one could argue "Mage" was less popular than "Vampire" or "Werewolf" precisely because it forced players to be a little more creative.
The not-so-dirty little secret of role-playing is that good roleplayers can have fun and be creative with any system. The best campaign I ever saw was run for years on a system which was long-since defunct by the time the campaign really got rolling.
No, WW isn't making a particularly gutsy move here. It's probably being done strictly as a marketing move. As such, it may even be successful.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Good enough? Nope. The studio wanted another. The crew didn't really want to do a second movie because the first was hard enough. Charlton Heston didn't want to do the second one either. The film crew managed to convince him to do the second one by showing him a script which would all but guarantee he'd never have to do another one ever again. Oh, and the studio said they had less budget to make this one with too.
And it did well too. Was the studio satisfied? Hell no! They figured there was still money in that cash cow, so they had to keep milking. Somehow, working from the end of the frigging world they had to create a script for a third film. Oh, and could they do it again with even less money this time?
And so it continued--as far as I can remember, every movie in the PotA series was made with a smaller budget. And each subsequent film suffered for it. The makeup effects that everyone had in the first movie were reduced to major characters in each subsequent film; crowd scenes in later movies looked worse and worse, until they no longer had crowd scenes because the crew couldn't afford as many extras!
Personally, by the fifth I think the series was running on fumes, but they still made a sixth. And taken as a whole, the hexology made a certain sense, but the series suffered greatly because it was forced to dance to faster and faster music in the same steadily worn-down shoes, to coin a metaphor. But it got to where it did by clever writing, good directing, and more than a little dumb luck.
Which brings up the question, why would people want to violate continuity and push something way past its prime? Because someone thinks they can get more money by doing so. Thus has the conflict forever run between the worlds of art and profit.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
And all those months of talking to Justin and trying to butter him up... all for nothing.
Thursdæ
Still partying with WW at Dragon*con, though.
Activision cancelled their Star Trek license by suing Viacom for not "keeping the license active enough," I wonder if White Wolf is next on their list for ending the World of Darkness before Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines ships! Or maybe they'll just end up with another dead license... heh...