Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the thats-a-lotta-legal-fees dept.
este writes "According to an article in the Inquirer, if the RIAA maintains its rate of lawsuit issuance, it will take more than two millenia for them to sue evey P2P file trader. The author accounts for many additional difficulties facing the RIAA in this daunting task."
Article text
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Informative
RIAA will take 2191.78 years to sue everyone
Sum hope
By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 29 July 2003, 10:31 READER MICHAELA STEPHENS says that if the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is right and that 60 million US folk are file sharing, it's going to take the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) a mighty long time to get round to them all.
She said: "I pulled out my calculator to see just how long it would take the RIAA to sue all 60 million P2P music file traders at a rate of 75 a day. 60,000,000/75 = 800,000 days to subpoena each person or 800,000 days/365 days in a year = 2191.78 years to subpoena each person".
Michaela points out that it's unrealistic to suppose that the RIAA will have any money left in 2191 years, and she even wonders whether the trade association will exist then.
Plus, she points out, given the rate of tech advancement, it's likely that we'll have moved on to many different types of music media in even a hundred years.
She continues: " So let us consider more realistic numbers. The RIAA plans to sue thousands of file sharers. Working in increments of 5000: 5,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 66 days How are they going to keep track of all these lawsuits going on? 10,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 133 days or about 2/3 of a year.
"Keep in mind suing 10,000 people is still only going to impact only one six thousandth (1/6000) of the file traders out there. And who is getting rich off of this? The lawyers. Betcha not a single musician will see a cent of this money.
"15,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 200 days (1 out of every 4000 affected) 20,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 266.6 days (1 out of every 3000 affected)
"When might this actually start affecting us? When 1 out of every 10 is affected? That would mean they'd have to sue six million people. That would take,...(6,000,000/75 = 80,000)... 80,000 days.. or 219 years! They'd have to sue our great grand children!"
Re:Why even try?
by
KReilly
·
· Score: 5, Informative
This is assuming that A) They actually maintain this level of lawsuits, they could easily step up the amount. B) All file sharers remain online, I read a while back that their has been a dip in kazaa usage since the start of the lawsuits.
They never intended to sue everyone that uses p2p, they are intending to scare everyone out of using p2p. Put simply, if they sued half, I could almost guarentee the other half would stop. Thus cutting their time to 1 millenia
Re:It's the deterrent, stupid.
by
dlur
·
· Score: 5, Informative
The fines aren't between $750 and $150,000 per offense. These people are being sued for that amount in civil court cases. The vast, vast majority of these cases aren't criminal cases, they're civil. Huge difference. If they were criminal cases you'd pay a fine and go to jail for a while, but you'd also get a court appointed lawyer if you couldn't afford one and have the option of a jury trial.
In a civil case there's not much for a limit on damages and no governmental checks and balances on what those limits are. So basically the RIAA can almost literally sue the pants off you for doing something that doesn't physically hurt anyone and just has minor monetary effects on their being. Isn't America great?
Fabulous. We've got a consortium of companies using terrorist methods to get their way.
However, it doesn't matter anymore. Technology will always provide a solution to "get around the system." Even now, Kazaa Lite and many others have changed their system so that it protects users against the RIAA for now. And once the RIAA breaks that, another protection will exist. You can't fight a system that goes underground.
-- This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Re:It's the deterrent, stupid.
by
garcia
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I don't care if it is civil or criminal court. They are treating you like a criminal and charging up to $150k per song.
Re:It's the deterrent, stupid.
by
deke_2503
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Traffic laws and fines were designed not to eliminate speeding, but rather to keep it to a reasonable level. Obviously it is possible to speed, even speed recklessly, and not get caught. However, if one doesn't want to take the chance at at $100+ ticket, they won't speed, or speed as much. If the police wanted to eliminate speeding, they could do a much better (and more expensive job) by either paying a heck of a lot more cops to watch traffic or by autonomously clocking cars and remotely recording their license plate. Give it a few years, and cars will be required to broadcast a unique signal indicating information about it, such as license, driver, driver information, car history, etc, which makes it even easier.
Yeah, it's extreme, it's expensive, and it's not really needed either. The point is that this is what the RIAA both wants and needs to do. Now, I'm not supporting the RIAA, but if you make the analogy to speeding, a $110 ticket every time they catch you downloading something copyrighted is ridiculous. They don't catch everybody, and for some it would actually be cheaper than buying all the CDs individually!
Besides which, the latest copyright laws weren't written to save human lives, but rather because the RIAA bitched enough and tossed around enough money....
Re:Unfortunately they don't need that long...
by
garcia
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Kazaa use is declining? Funny, I just logged on the other night for my daily dose of pornage and found that there were nearly 7TB's of files available. Last time I checked it was in the low 6TB range...
Some people have gotten a clue and moved to other methods (like BT) for getting their TV episodes, porn, music, etc. BT speeds are BLAZING fast compared to most of Kazaa (not for music, for movies, etc). I average about 100kB/s for most songs on Kazaa, I can download entire albums from BT at 200kB/s+
Just a reminder...
by
mcp33p4n75
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Now is the time to boycott the RIAA. It's not that difficult, really! If you're going to buy a new cd, check against this list. You'd be surprised how much good music doesn't belong to those labels. If you MUST get that Avril Lavigne CD, buy it used. Sites like SecondSpin have a fairly large collection, or you can get it off ebay, or at your local record store. If you can't manage to find a used copy, pat yourself on the back. You found a CD published by an RIAA company that is actually good. That surely has to be a sign of the end times. What do you do then? I guess you'll have to exhibit self-restraint. Or if you have a peg-leg, resort to less-legal means.
The point is, don't let the RIAA get a dime of your money.
/me waits for obligatory comments about boycotts on/.
Re:Why even try?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
They never intended to sue everyone that uses p2p, they are intending to scare everyone out of using p2p.
Put simply, if they sued half, I could almost guarentee the other half would stop.
Don't be silly, file sharing isn't going to go away anymore than marijuana and speeding has. They can vilify it all they want, but people will still do it. If the big P2P networks break apart then people will just go back to the good old alternatives like usenet, IRC, and private FTP and HTTP sites. Most people know at least one other person that has thousands of songs, just hook up with him, setup an encrypted network with IPSEC and then setup an FTP server on the network. Require face-to-face meetings or proof that they're trustworthy with anyone you let onto the encrypted network and into the server.
Re:Book sales down too...
by
Frac
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Nevermind the fact that it would be foolish to either transcribe an entire novel or scan all the pages with a 100% accurate OCR program then slap all the pages together in a PDF.
Foolish? Maybe. But are books available on P2P? I believe so!
Of course, it's the norm to post wrong information on slashdot. You're not the only one.
Re:Why even try?
by
Lemmy+Caution
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I'm not a RATM fan (forchissakes, I listen to Merzbow and Morton Feldman) but the very link you posted indicates that they didn't approve of the booting of Napster users by their management and that they apologized for their management agency's behaviour.
Implying hypocrisy on their part is deeply unfair.
Re:File Sharing will Evolve
by
oliphaunt
·
· Score: 2, Informative
3. Local exchanges. Even more extreme than a private network, people might make direct device-to-device copies. Go over to a friend's house and download their entire music collection to your laptop.
News flash- people are already doing this. It beats all the hassle of searching for a file and then ensuring its quality, and then filing it in the right place with the rest of the songs by that artist/album/mp3_bitrate_trackname. If you have a fried with a computer (I bet you do!) and you have $200 to spend on an external drive, you're in business. Hell, even USB beats DSL speeds.
And there is really something to be said for consistent quality and naming conventions. You buy a couple of big drives, you set up a raid, you rip everything you have at 160 or 192, and you suggest that 2 of your close friends should do the same... you never ever ever have to buy any of those albums ever again. And neither do your friends. Why be anonymous? if you have a circle of 4 or 5 people to trade stuff with, that probably represents more music than you could listen to in 5 years.
If I'm passing hard disks around with my friends, it makes it easy for us to just assimilate each other's entire music collection in an afternoon, rather than the 8-10 hours of DL time you would need to get, eg, the new Gang Starr album. The hardest part is scheduling regular updates when someone gets something new. My music collection has grown by 80 gigs in the past 12 months, and I haven't bought a single CD during that time- AND I haven't downloaded a single music file over the open internet since Napster went under.
--
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Iron Freaking Maiden
by
grokmiskatonic
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Just want to say, I saw Iron Maiden tonight, and their singer (Bruce Dickenson) gave a 5 minute or so monologue about how he didn't feel threatened by file sharing.
His reasoning was that they were selling more albums now than ever before, and this was due to fan loyalty. He said that if people wanted to tape the show and share it on the internet, that is fine (this before they played a yet unreleased song). He reasoned that since they were connecting with the fans, and making album that were made with the fans in mind, that is why they continued to sell. His message to the record companies was to have original music, not music that was copies of the hit band of the moment.
This went over pretty well to the PACKED house of fanatical fans (to say the least, as many cheers to this, as anything else). I don't think these guys are going to have problems selling records, file sharing or not!
RIAA take a lesson from Iron Maiden!! Say what you will about the intelligence level of heavy metal bands and fans, but this was about the best advocacy of file sharing that I have ever heard.
I'm not really sure of the ethics of file sharing myself. I am an amature musician myself, and I feel musicians do deserve compensation. I just wanted to point out that I don't think that bands that are really connecting with the fans on a long term basis (Like Iron Maiden, Dio, and Motorhead playing on this tour) have a lot to worry about! I know I want to support them!
Make my Day laws
by
Ex-MislTech
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Alot of the Midwestern states have the "make my day laws", ALOT of criminals have been shot because of it.
Some innocents and even cops have died too, but they intend to keep the law on the books.
The cop that died here did, the knock, yell, bust door down real quick and rush in . What he got was a sleeping person on the couch with a double barrel shotgun.
The dead cop was the district attorneys son, the guy on the couch got away with it.
Makes the cops a little more careful about busting into houses, deserved or not . They also carry lexan shields and body armor on entry crews now.
Peace, Ex-MislTech
-- google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Slashdot Mirror
RIAA will take 2191.78 years to sue everyone
Sum hope
By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 29 July 2003, 10:31
READER MICHAELA STEPHENS says that if the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is right and that 60 million US folk are file sharing, it's going to take the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) a mighty long time to get round to them all.
She said: "I pulled out my calculator to see just how long it would take the RIAA to sue all 60 million P2P music file traders at a rate of 75 a day. 60,000,000/75 = 800,000 days to subpoena each person or 800,000 days/365 days in a year = 2191.78 years to subpoena each person".
Michaela points out that it's unrealistic to suppose that the RIAA will have any money left in 2191 years, and she even wonders whether the trade association will exist then.
Plus, she points out, given the rate of tech advancement, it's likely that we'll have moved on to many different types of music media in even a hundred years.
She continues: " So let us consider more realistic numbers. The RIAA plans to sue thousands of file sharers. Working in increments of 5000: 5,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 66 days How are they going to keep track of all these lawsuits going on? 10,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 133 days or about 2/3 of a year.
"Keep in mind suing 10,000 people is still only going to impact only one six thousandth (1/6000) of the file traders out there. And who is getting rich off of this? The lawyers. Betcha not a single musician will see a cent of this money.
"15,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 200 days (1 out of every 4000 affected) 20,000 people/75 subpoenas a day = 266.6 days (1 out of every 3000 affected)
"When might this actually start affecting us? When 1 out of every 10 is affected? That would mean they'd have to sue six million people. That would take,...(6,000,000/75 = 80,000)... 80,000 days.. or 219 years! They'd have to sue our great grand children!"
This is assuming that
A) They actually maintain this level of lawsuits, they could easily step up the amount.
B) All file sharers remain online, I read a while back that their has been a dip in kazaa usage since the start of the lawsuits.
They never intended to sue everyone that uses p2p, they are intending to scare everyone out of using p2p.
Put simply, if they sued half, I could almost guarentee the other half would stop. Thus cutting their time to 1 millenia
The fines aren't between $750 and $150,000 per offense. These people are being sued for that amount in civil court cases. The vast, vast majority of these cases aren't criminal cases, they're civil. Huge difference. If they were criminal cases you'd pay a fine and go to jail for a while, but you'd also get a court appointed lawyer if you couldn't afford one and have the option of a jury trial.
In a civil case there's not much for a limit on damages and no governmental checks and balances on what those limits are. So basically the RIAA can almost literally sue the pants off you for doing something that doesn't physically hurt anyone and just has minor monetary effects on their being. Isn't America great?
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
A) They actually maintain this level of lawsuits, they could easily step up the amount.
Maybe not... didn't one of the court workers get quoted as saying they had to bring in extra help just to handle the stuff that's being filed now?
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
However, it doesn't matter anymore. Technology will always provide a solution to "get around the system." Even now, Kazaa Lite and many others have changed their system so that it protects users against the RIAA for now. And once the RIAA breaks that, another protection will exist. You can't fight a system that goes underground.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
I don't care if it is civil or criminal court. They are treating you like a criminal and charging up to $150k per song.
Proof is Here
The song is Untitled, but unofficially called Revolutionary. The song is also played with Tool.
Here are the lyrics.
Yeah, it's extreme, it's expensive, and it's not really needed either. The point is that this is what the RIAA both wants and needs to do. Now, I'm not supporting the RIAA, but if you make the analogy to speeding, a $110 ticket every time they catch you downloading something copyrighted is ridiculous. They don't catch everybody, and for some it would actually be cheaper than buying all the CDs individually!
Besides which, the latest copyright laws weren't written to save human lives, but rather because the RIAA bitched enough and tossed around enough money....
Kazaa use is declining? Funny, I just logged on the other night for my daily dose of pornage and found that there were nearly 7TB's of files available. Last time I checked it was in the low 6TB range...
Some people have gotten a clue and moved to other methods (like BT) for getting their TV episodes, porn, music, etc. BT speeds are BLAZING fast compared to most of Kazaa (not for music, for movies, etc). I average about 100kB/s for most songs on Kazaa, I can download entire albums from BT at 200kB/s+
Now is the time to boycott the RIAA. It's not that difficult, really! If you're going to buy a new cd, check against this list. You'd be surprised how much good music doesn't belong to those labels. If you MUST get that Avril Lavigne CD, buy it used. Sites like SecondSpin have a fairly large collection, or you can get it off ebay, or at your local record store. If you can't manage to find a used copy, pat yourself on the back. You found a CD published by an RIAA company that is actually good. That surely has to be a sign of the end times. What do you do then? I guess you'll have to exhibit self-restraint. Or if you have a peg-leg, resort to less-legal means.
/.
The point is, don't let the RIAA get a dime of your money.
/me waits for obligatory comments about boycotts on
Don't be silly, file sharing isn't going to go away anymore than marijuana and speeding has. They can vilify it all they want, but people will still do it. If the big P2P networks break apart then people will just go back to the good old alternatives like usenet, IRC, and private FTP and HTTP sites. Most people know at least one other person that has thousands of songs, just hook up with him, setup an encrypted network with IPSEC and then setup an FTP server on the network. Require face-to-face meetings or proof that they're trustworthy with anyone you let onto the encrypted network and into the server.
Nevermind the fact that it would be foolish to either transcribe an entire novel or scan all the pages with a 100% accurate OCR program then slap all the pages together in a PDF.
Foolish? Maybe. But are books available on P2P? I believe so!
Of course, it's the norm to post wrong information on slashdot. You're not the only one.
I'm not a RATM fan (forchissakes, I listen to Merzbow and Morton Feldman) but the very link you posted indicates that they didn't approve of the booting of Napster users by their management and that they apologized for their management agency's behaviour.
Implying hypocrisy on their part is deeply unfair.
News flash- people are already doing this. It beats all the hassle of searching for a file and then ensuring its quality, and then filing it in the right place with the rest of the songs by that artist/album/mp3_bitrate_trackname. If you have a fried with a computer (I bet you do!) and you have $200 to spend on an external drive, you're in business. Hell, even USB beats DSL speeds.
And there is really something to be said for consistent quality and naming conventions. You buy a couple of big drives, you set up a raid, you rip everything you have at 160 or 192, and you suggest that 2 of your close friends should do the same... you never ever ever have to buy any of those albums ever again. And neither do your friends. Why be anonymous? if you have a circle of 4 or 5 people to trade stuff with, that probably represents more music than you could listen to in 5 years.
If I'm passing hard disks around with my friends, it makes it easy for us to just assimilate each other's entire music collection in an afternoon, rather than the 8-10 hours of DL time you would need to get, eg, the new Gang Starr album. The hardest part is scheduling regular updates when someone gets something new. My music collection has grown by 80 gigs in the past 12 months, and I haven't bought a single CD during that time- AND I haven't downloaded a single music file over the open internet since Napster went under.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Just want to say, I saw Iron Maiden tonight, and their singer (Bruce Dickenson) gave a 5 minute or so monologue about how he didn't feel threatened by file sharing.
His reasoning was that they were selling more albums now than ever before, and this was due to fan loyalty. He said that if people wanted to tape the show and share it on the internet, that is fine (this before they played a yet unreleased song). He reasoned that since they were connecting with the fans, and making album that were made with the fans in mind, that is why they continued to sell. His message to the record companies was to have original music, not music that was copies of the hit band of the moment.
This went over pretty well to the PACKED house of fanatical fans (to say the least, as many cheers to this, as anything else). I don't think these guys are going to have problems selling records, file sharing or not!
RIAA take a lesson from Iron Maiden!! Say what you will about the intelligence level of heavy metal bands and fans, but this was about the best
advocacy of file sharing that I have ever heard.
I'm not really sure of the ethics of file sharing myself. I am an amature musician myself, and I feel musicians do deserve compensation. I just wanted to point out that I don't think that bands that are really connecting with the fans on a long term basis (Like Iron Maiden, Dio, and Motorhead playing on this tour) have a lot to worry about! I know I want to support them!
Alot of the Midwestern states have the "make my day laws", .
.
.
.
.
ALOT of criminals have been shot because of it
Some innocents and even cops have died too, but they
intend to keep the law on the books
The cop that died here did, the knock, yell, bust door
down real quick and rush in . What he got was a sleeping
person on the couch with a double barrel shotgun
The dead cop was the district attorneys son, the guy on
the couch got away with it
Makes the cops a little more careful about busting into
houses, deserved or not . They also carry lexan shields
and body armor on entry crews now
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"