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Sharp Zaurus SL-C750 (P)reviewed

Posted by timothy on from the note-built-in-drool-cup dept.

Bill Kendrick writes "Dynamism loaned the Japan-only 'C750' clamshell model Zaurus Linux PDA to the folks over at BargainPDA.com, and they've put up a mini-review, with the promise of a more in-depth review to come soon. The funniest part is they needed to scale down the screenshots to fit on their site."

30 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. When... by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    do palms become laptops? If I got a palm, I'd get one because of its size, if I wanted something more powerful, I'd get a laptop. This just seems to me a cross between a palm and a laptop that has none of the benefits of either.

    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
    1. Re:When... by dbarclay10 · · Score: 2, Informative
      do palms become laptops? If I got a palm, I'd get one because of its size, if I wanted something more powerful, I'd get a laptop. This just seems to me a cross between a palm and a laptop that has none of the benefits of either.

      Except that this is the size of a normal PDA. I believe it's somewhat smaller than an iPaq with its sleeve.

      Of course, even if it *was* bigger, that may still hit the sweet spot for many people. Or perhaps we're all your clones, and not only do we actually *CARE* about what you don't need this device for (hahahaha), but we also have the exact same not-needs? :)

      --

      Barclay family motto:
      Aut agere aut mori.
      (Either action or death.)
    2. Re:When... by buck_wild · · Score: 3, Funny

      "I prefer to think of the glass as too small."

      --I forget the source.

      --
      If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
    3. Re:When... by IanGiblin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some of the beauty of this device is that it's the *size* of a Palm and the *power* of a laptop (albeit a limited one). If you don't need the power, fair enough. But nobody can fault a 640x480 screen on a PDA. It makes a big difference (the screen is the same physical size as the Zaurus 5000 series, and it's the first Zaurus with a PXA255 instead of that nasty PXA250 chip.

      I wrote that preview and I have the PDA here; it somehow still surprises me how small it is when I put it down next to my regular Zaurus.

    4. Re:When... by Michael+Spencer+Jr. · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think there's another way to think about this.

      How much computing power does a device have? How much computing power does it take to enable some range of tasks?

      How portable is a device? How big/small does it have to be for it to be useful in various parts of your life?

      I have been carrying around a Zaurus SL-C700 for the past four months. (The SL-C700, 750, and 760 all use the same form factor but have different hardware features.) The size helps a lot. Every time my car keys go in my pocket, the Zaurus goes in my pocket. It's *always there*. When I sit down I can barely feel the rounded corners, but they don't poke. The hinge isn't flimsy or weak at all. The screen is closed up inside the case, so there's no danger of damage that way. (Caveat: it's possible for a coin to wedge itself up in there between the screen and keyboard, but that's very rare. It's only happened to me twice, and I haven't noticed any scratches on the screen.)

      The size is small enough that I have been allowed to use it on math tests at college. I showed the professor Maple on it, explained that I was using the 802.11b card to remotely control my home computer...even showed that I could switch from Maple to an internet browser. I was still allowed to use the machine on tests. It isn't big and bulky like a laptop -- it doesn't sprawl out and take up the whole desk.

      The battery life, for me, is inconvenient but not insurmountable. With a power-hungry CF card in there you do only get about 90 minutes of runtime. That sounds kinda bad, but think about your own lifestyle and your own use of this device. How long are you away from a power outlet for 90 minutes in a stretch, if you just go between home and work?

      I built a custom battery pack for my unit, and you should too. (We're slashdot readers -- this isn't mass market land.) http://mspencer.net/battery/ It's eight 9000 mAh capacity D cells (NiMH) in two four-D-cell holders, wired in parallel. In theory the numbers say I should have about 20 times the battery life of the internal battery pack. In practice I know I have to recharge the pack about every two to three weeks. It's about as heavy as a thick schoolbook, and sits in my backpack just fine, in a separate compartment that's too small for a full-size textbook but larger than the tiny pocket in back.

      OK, that's the size. It's pretty much go-anywhere, once you realize the limitations of the battery size. If you want that kind of computing power (see below) available anywhere (for 1 to 4 hour stretches) or available any time you're with your backpack (for weeks of power), it might be worth hacking together a battery pack for yourself.

      What computing power? The biggest feature is that beautiful screen and keyboard. The keyboard is better than most that size, but of course nowhere near the convenience of a full size keyboard. The screen is clean and bright -- on full battery-sucking brightness, it's brighter than my monitor. I can see some smudges when the screen is off, but they're completely invisible with the screen on. Slightly visible in direct sunlight (because it emits light, doesn't reflect) but it's useful as a flashlight in the dark. It's capable of truly tiny print. To see if you can tolerate text that small, take a screenshot, scale it to the correct size and print it out. Hold the paper out at various distances.

      RAM is very limited, but you can use a swapfile. It's good for a few things at once. For school I've run mysql for database classes (and wished I had postgresql). ALL of my unix C programs were written, compiled, tested and emailed in from the C700. And then there's VNC in to the desktop, running Maple.

      It's basically like a fiddly old resurrected linux PC, in your pocket. It has severe limitations, but they CAN be surmounted. Mount a swapfile. Close some programs. Stop that httpd you left running. It can do very impressive things, slowly and one at a time. It can do lots of little workstation things very w

    5. Re:When... by pj737 · · Score: 3, Funny
      "The size is small enough that I have been allowed to use it on math tests at college"

      Is your professor a moron?

    6. Re:When... by blitziod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the glass is NEVER empty. It is always completely full. The air to water ratio may have changed, but a vacuum was NOT created.

      --
      The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
  2. They've had this at Yodobashi for a while by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nothing new, and certainly nothing to write home about. It's a clamshell design which means that it's even less useful than the palm-top design. Chiclet keyboard, small screen, bad fonts.

    I guess it's nice that it runs QT which means development for it should be a breeze, but seeing as how the source kit for this is still under lock and key (it's not the same source as the palm-sized Zaurus), it's not yet Free.

    Other than that, it's pretty solidly built, although the salespeople don't like it when you "test drop" the demo devices.

    1. Re:They've had this at Yodobashi for a while by Blasphemy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The great thing about this is that it's not just a clamshell. Turn the screen around and close it and you have a regular PDA-style stylus-based device. It's the best of both worlds.

      A proud C760 owner (same as C750 with longer battery life and 128MB flash ram)

    2. Re:They've had this at Yodobashi for a while by kanner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You held it in your hands and failed to see anything special about it? You must have failed to notice that it has twice the resolution of any other PDA out there, including the recently announced devices from Sony. This means you can put a copy of the Tokyo subway map on it and be able to read it. You can also buy an electronic train schedule for about $10 (good for when you're out drinking near time for the last train). The high res display means the Zaurus is also good for keeping those little store maps that show you how to get to the shop from the nearest station. This device really can replace all those scraps of paper you bring with you and then loose.

      You probably haven't noticed that the new DoCoMo and J-Phone releases by Sharp, with equally stunning displays. They all have "CG Silicon" somewhere near the display. These displays are very bright and crisp, with very high resolution. Btw, you can zap contact information from those phones to the Zaurus using the IR ports built into both devices.

      About the keyboard: when I first saw it, I wondered what the point of it was; now I can tell you. The point isn't to compete with a full sized keyboard, it's to compete with grafiti or other handwriting recognition techniques, and I'm grateful to have it.

      So the Zaurus doesn't have the Bluetooth (does anybody actually use this?) or wifi stuff built in (a touch unfortunate), nor a camera (but you already have one in your phone, don't you?). On the plus side, DoCoMo is coming out with a PHS/WiFi card so you can use WiFi at the office and get wireless PHS access from anywhere else (well, almost anywhere). It also doesn't have a built in mike (I think all the Pocket PC devices do have one), the speaker is not very good (but there's a headphone jack of course), the PIM software is not as good as the Palm PIM software is (IMHO).

      Of course there are three models out there - the older SL-C700, the SL-C750, and the SL-C760. The SL-C760 is the one to buy - comes with everything, including a large enough battery to feed the power hungry display. I haven't had any trouble running out of power, but I plug it in every day, and only use it away from power for a few hours each day. The power adapter is very small and light (like mobile phone power adapters), so it's not a problem to throw it in a bag and take it with you.

      About the price, yes, you can almost buy a cheap laptop or desktop, but for $500 neither one will be worth writing home about.

      If you are into computers, then you really need three devices. The Sharp Zaurus SL-C760 for pocket computing, the Sony Vaio TR-1 for mobile computing (has bluetooth and wifi), and your desktop machine.

  3. Troll post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The URL posted by the poster above is just a page that tries to crash those with the bug in Internet Explorer (I'm running Mozilla and can see it no problem though).

  4. Bah. by JoeD · · Score: 3, Funny

    Insert obligatory Beowulf cluster joke here.

  5. What could be better? by kinzillah · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a big fan of the Zaurus. While I love my Palm III to death, you're kind of limited by the available software. It seems to me that the Zaurus is perfect for the admin on the go. What else gives you ssh in such a small package? :)

    --
    Douglas P. Price
  6. Re:A great review by Speare · · Score: 2, Informative
    Some other really great reviews can be found in the previous TWO slashdot stories that headline about this very Zaurus model. One of them was even offered by the very same timothy who rubber-stamped this story.

    Sharp Zaurus SL-C750 English Conversion
    New Sharp Zaurus SL-C760/C750 Linux PDAs

    I think he might have enough kick-backs from slashvertisements to actually buy a couple of these units.

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  7. Users in Japan like this a lot by Bushcat · · Score: 5, Informative
    The SL-C750 and C760 are selling well in Japan, especially the C760. 760 has 128MB flash RAM vs 64MB, 1700mAH battery vs 900mAH. Both support VPN over services such as YahooBB Mobile (Yahoo's hotspot adjunct to home ADSL service). With support for wireless and cellular data cards (up to 128k for cellular), it's probably much more of a connected mobile device in its home market that in the US.

    Street price of theC750 is about $375, and $500 for the C760.

    1. Re:Users in Japan like this a lot by Bushcat · · Score: 5, Informative
      On many of the Japanese-originated PDAs, you'll notice CF and SD slots. In the US reviewers tend to mistakenly assume this is simply giving users a choice. In Japan, as I'm assuming you know given your location, typically the memory card goes in the SD slot and the feature card goes in the CF slot: wireless, Docomo P-In, Air H" or whatever.

      I agree that PDA penetration in the market is less than in the US; you suggest this is because everyone has a laptop instead. Actually, for the casual user, I think it's because everyone has a cellphone instead: most newcomers to the internet in Japan enter via cellphone.

      But I see a lot of PDAs in business and tech: visiting a large electronics company last year, everyone at the meeting had company-issued PDA swhich were kept updated over an internal PHS network.

  8. Mirror here - Site /.ed by nacs · · Score: 4, Informative

    The review site looks to be /.ed so I've uploaded a mirror here:

    Mirror

    --
    "I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
    1. Re:Mirror here - Site /.ed by Joey+Patterson · · Score: 3, Funny

      Looks like the mirror is /.'ed, too. :( Anybody got a mirror of the mirror?

  9. Looking Sharp by dark-br · · Score: 4, Insightful
    TrollTech has done a fantastic job with the Qt embedded GUI lib. It's superfast.

    That said, I don't like these small widgets. Try typing
    c.t[j] 1) ? sft[i-1] : sft[i]
    on it.

    It hurts.
  10. Psion by solanum · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why do you people complain about the clamshell design and compare it to a laptop? Psion practically invented the PDA and many Psion 5's/Revo's (including mine) are still in use because no one has yet made a better PDA. Possibly excepting this Zaurus (can't afford one so not about to find out).
    It's not like a laptop it's virtually the same size as a palm. But more useful because you can type on it.
    I can't believe how people were brainwashed into thinking that the Palm design IS a PDA. Even the article talks about generic PDA when they mean a palm type design.

    --
    Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
    1. Re:Psion by release7 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Agreed. I had the Psion 5 until the screen went dead (and Psion went out of business). Loved it. Then I bought the HP Jornada 728 (now discontinued). A little bulkier and a lot buggier, but I still loved having a keyboard you could touch type on.

      I just sold the Jornada, however, (the number of crashes and Microsoft software bugs were a bit too much), for $800 on eBay and am exchanging it for the more "traditional" PDA form factor with the Zaurus 5600 for a street price of $440. I'm not going to be able to touch type on it but it still has a keyboard to enter data.

      But when I see people clumsily tapping away on their PDA screens to enter data, I just scratch my head and wonder why the clamshell designs never took off.

      --

      <a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>

    2. Re:Psion by podperson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Surely Apple not only virtually but actually invented the PDA including coining the term.

      And frankly, the Newton MP2000 / 2100 kicks the ass of any PDA ever shipped (so far) except for its size.

  11. Review at www.newmobilecomputing.com by davejenkins · · Score: 4, Informative

    You are welcome to read my review a couple weeks ago posted over at www.newmobilecomputing.com

    --

    davejenkins.com |

  12. Another mirror by nacs · · Score: 2, Informative

    OK. That one appears to be down too so here's another to distribute the load further:

    Mirror #2

    --
    "I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
  13. Discontinued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just wanted to let you know that the 5000 and 5500 have reached their end of life here in the USA and Sharp USA has no plans to release any new ROMS for those devices. In fact there are only three people still at Sharp USA who are working on the project (managers can't seem to fire other managers...) Yay for Anonymous Coward. P.S. Ask around and I know that you can confirm this.

  14. Anytime I see something about sharp by smkndrkn · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have to post. I feel it is my duty as a burned customer. Give me my -1 I don't care....if even one person reads this and doesn't buy a sharp product because of it it worked. Karma be damned:

    Sharp Electronics: Buyer Beware

    --
    ======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
  15. You don't have a Zaurus, do you? by twitter · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Nothing new.... It's a clamshell design which means that it's even less useful than the palm-top design. Chiclet keyboard, small screen, bad fonts.

    Huh? That keyboard is like 5 times the size of the already very useful keyboard on the Zaurus or the wildly popular blackberry devices. I liked their little pointer device, but the new one's arrow keys look just as functional. Between that and tab complete and the very nice looking and very much big enough to be useful screen, this should be easier to use than the already easy to use Zaurus. It certianly kicks WinCE ass.

    I guess it's nice that it runs QT which means development for it should be a breeze, but seeing as how the source kit for this is still under lock and key (it's not the same source as the palm-sized Zaurus), it's not yet Free.

    Open Zaurus works on this. The Debian style feed is about as free as it gets.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  16. Re:Discontinued,, well not really.... by q2a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do your homework AC, these run Linux!
    the most recent kernel was released TODAY. 7/29/2003.
    If you want an OS that doesn't live and breathe, go back to BillyBorg.
  17. Screen Sizre by Richard_J_N · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One thing I wonder - why is there so much wasted space on the top half? They could make the screen 40% wider (and still have space for the backlight).

  18. All I want... by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is a device that can double as a phone, runs any sort of Unix or Unixalike (Linux and NetBSD are fine), lasts 12 hours on a battery charge, has built-in networking so that the CF slot is still free, can be used in one hand while standing, has a keyboard at least as usable as a PS/2 keyboard from 1987, has a display that an unfold to 21-inch widescreen, and has the processing power of a dual-Opteron. And it should cost about $99. Is that too much to ask?

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.