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Core Design Loses Grip On Lara

Posted by simoniker on from the english-rose-departs-stateside dept.

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to an Eidos press release discussing major changes to the Tomb Raider franchise. Following the recent resignation of the managing director of Tomb Raider developers Core Design, seemingly due to the disappointing reception for Tomb Raider:Angel Of Darkness, Eidos has announced that "...in recognition of the Company's need continually to enhance the value and maximize the commercial opportunity of one of its key franchises, for which all intellectual property rights belong to Eidos, the Board has concluded that it will transfer development of the franchise to its Crystal Dynamics studio in the U.S." Crystal Dynamics are probably best known for the recent titles in the Legacy Of Kain series, so it'll be interesting to see what they make of the latterly lackluster Tomb Raider franchise.

33 comments

  1. fp (what they need to do) by jayoyayo · · Score: 1

    What they need to do is shelve Tomb Raider for now, develop some other games, then bring back the franchise in 2006 for PS3. People are just tired of Tomb Raider, yeah it was cool back in the day, but enough is enough. If Final Fantasy retained the same protagonist for every game in the series it would not continue to be a million selling franchise.

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    1. Re:fp (what they need to do) by lidocaineus · · Score: 1

      WHAT? Retaining the same protagonist is NOT the problem (see Mario and Sonic for example). The problem is stale grey gameplay, with no quality control.

      And pointing out FF as the paragon of not reusing characters is probably the worst possible choice, as gamers are always clamoring to bring back old FF characters (and what we get for all the trouble is a glorified "Barbie's Big Adventure in the Scary World!" aka FFX-2, but that's a whole different story).

    2. Re:fp (what they need to do) by Txiasaeia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree. If they leave it alone for long enough, people will only remember the good, earlier games. Then, they just need to plug the game by saying, "From the guys that brought you the ORIGINAL Tomb Raider..."

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    3. Re:fp (what they need to do) by jayoyayo · · Score: 1

      I should have expanded my point more, as it is more than simply being about reusing characters. Its about supply and demand. Look at your second point about FF, thats where Tomb Raider needs to be. hidden away so that gamers clamor to bring back Lara. As it stands right now nobody gives a fuck about Tomb Raider. Its not original, its the same formula. Originally it did well because it was a fun action adventure where you play a chick with gigantic breasts. Nowadays there are hundreds of games with that same premise, the demand is being filled. So to go back to my original point they need to shelve Tomb Raider and only bring it back when the market is salivating for a new game in the series. The problem is not 'stale grey gameplay, with no quality control' (see Resident Evil for example), the problem is people don't care about Tomb Raider like they used to. A game can still sell well if it sucks, such as Enter the Matrix, but if the market demands it then people will buy it.

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    4. Re:fp (what they need to do) by lidocaineus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      While I agree with some of your points, you seemed to be all over the map. Let's pick it apart in a more logical fashion, shall we?

      Originally it did well because it was a fun action adventure where you play a chick with gigantic breasts.

      True. However, it *also* had a new type of gameplay, namely a 3D platformer melded with a bit of action and a lot of exploring. Very cool when it first came out; the T&A were simply bonuses on top of that (though to me, that was always lame - polygons don't really do anything for me).

      Its not original, its the same formula.

      Once again, true. Though new moves and some slightly different locales were added, TR is the exact same thing, with little innovation.

      Now here's where you start getting confusing.

      Nowadays there are hundreds of games with that same premise, the demand is being filled.

      What, with vast, 3d environments coupled with exploratory and platform elements, with a dash of action? Sure. And the well designed ones sell well, or at least get critical praise (Jax & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Metroid Prime, even ICO way back when, and on and on). Or are you referring to breast size? Well... no game really springs to mind, though I guess BMX XXX fits the bill, and that really didn't sell very well or fill any sort of demand. NOLF2? I guess... sort of. But since it was an FPS, you only saw Cate during cut scenes and the gameplay was very well done anyway. So if you're referring to the former, you're right on. If you're referring to the latter, I dunno where you're coming from.

      So to go back to my original point they need to shelve Tomb Raider and only bring it back when the market is salivating for a new game in the series.

      What a bizzare position, though you're welcome to take it. Honestly, I think you're way off here. People will salivate when the next game looks good and promises great new gameplay. Simply putting it on the shelf and letting it age won't make people want it. Did you get excited when Namco released the new Pacman 3D? We haven't seen him in a real video game in awhile, and for the length of time he was gone, we should've been storming down Namco HQ in anticipation.

      The problem is not 'stale grey gameplay, with no quality control' (see Resident Evil for example)...

      Uh, that's *EXACTLY* the problem. Notice Resident Evil is still selling well and getting those saliva glands working for fans... because Capcom took the original, and steadily moved it forward in terms of graphical prowess and gameplay elements. I am hardly a fan of Resident Evil, but if you haven't sat down with the GCN version of Zero, you really don't know how far the series has moved. Of course there are plenty of problems, most notably the controls, but unlike TR, Res Evil hasn't stayed on what is basically the same engine for years, nor does it have a weak story (at best), and the quality control blows TR's out of the water (read: BUGS EVERYWHERE, across the series, not just on AOD).

      ...the problem is people don't care about Tomb Raider like they used to.

      What, do you think this is because we can get strange sized breasts elsewhere, for much easier, more often? Face it. It's because Core lacks any sort of innovation and has released products that weren't ready for the market with regards to code quality.

      A game can still sell well if it sucks, such as Enter the Matrix, but if the market demands it then people will buy it.

      Well of course. It's called hype. Star Wars: Galaxies sold insanely well and some of the people didn't even know what an MMORPG was when they snatched it up. Final Fantasy can have an adventure in a toilet and still sell well over a million copies. But sometimes, common sense actually crushes the hype monster down. TR is getting crushed not because of lack of hype (there's a movie out at the same time for chrissakes!) OR availability of p

    5. Re:fp (what they need to do) by jayoyayo · · Score: 0, Troll
      "Sounds awfully fishy to me."

      thats because youre not very bright. i'm not going to go thru your entire post and correct your points again. youre showing some irrationality and i've found that dealing with irrationalitity and attempting to dispute it is most often wasted time. believe what you want to believe, i'm not trippin, but just know that youre wrong, k thnx bye.

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    6. Re:fp (what they need to do) by lidocaineus · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's real mature. I take your points, organize them in a rational manner, and break them down into nice sized bites. You come back with, "You're wrong." No real debate, no real ideas. Ummm... yeah. Who's coming off as not very bright?

    7. Re:fp (what they need to do) by jayoyayo · · Score: 1

      as i already stated-- you are. i'm just coming off as lazy.

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  2. The Key to Tomb Raiders Sucess by the+darn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Bigger boobies and enchanced breast-motion simulation... what?

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    Ceci n'est pas un post.
    1. Re:The Key to Tomb Raiders Sucess by TheDredd · · Score: 1

      and those boobs keep getting bigger with each sequel, by the time tomb raider 15 hits the streets all you'll see is a walking pair of enormous boobs

  3. Good choice by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Crystal Dynamics has a lot of history with both Franchises (Gex, Kain, Pandemonium, etc) and with darkness (Akuji: The Heartless, Soul Reaver: Legacy of Kain, Disney's Magical Racing Tour...).

    Unlike Eidos proper, they tend to make deep games that rely upon a combination of exploiting good engines and telling a story that at some fundamental level shocks the player. If Laura Craft is going to move away from "Walk to the edge. Hop back. Take two running steps and jump." style gameplay, it needs to be moved away from the group that has been working on it for years.

    They need to give Laura a harder edge and a totally revamped control scheme. So long as she remains in a world overpopulated by keys and locked doors, the series will stagnate. If on the other hand she has to assassinate a mob boss who has seen her face and survive the escape attempt, the series could take on a whole new level.

    Of course this being Crystal Dynamics, who have never put out a truly episodic game in their lives, the gameplay will probably be heavily based in exploration rather than in missions. But still, such open worlds could cut to the heart of what Laura Croft is about.

    Now we need to find a good producer to pull the movies out of the doldrums. Cameron, anyone?

    --
    The ______ Agenda
    1. Re:Good choice by easychord · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For someone who apparently loves the Tomb Raider franchise so much, you have a hard time spelling Lara Croft.

      Tomb Raider games are not deep things. They are about vertigo, sudden surprises and a unusual but shallow female english protagonist.

      The formula gets boring pretty quickly.

    2. Re:Good choice by blincoln · · Score: 1

      I think that Crystal is the perfect company to broaden the horizons of the TR series. They've done just about every kind of game out there, and each one that I've played has something noticeably unique about it.

      They will also probably be able to make use of the excellent-looking game engine from the upcoming Legacy of Kain: Defiance, rather than using Core's. One of the biggest complaints I've heard about AoD is that the game still controls like the original TR, whereas Defiance is geared towards fast combat and cinematic camera styles.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    3. Re:Good choice by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 2, Informative

      "who have never put out a truly episodic game in their lives, "

      Arguable. SR2 was fairly episodic, with the different time periods forming the framework for the episodes. My concern with handing the franchise to CD is that they seem to spend a lot of time building cutscenes to tell a story at the expense of gameplay - SR2 in particular is reduced to a game that can be played in hours if you skip the cutscenes*. If they can combine decent, deep stories with varied and interesting gameplay, then TR may have a chance of revival. But I'm waiting for Defiance before I hold my breath on that...

      * yes, I know that the whole point is not to skip them, and the story is unusually intricate for a PC game (let alone a console one) but once you've seen them once you don't need to see them again.

  4. Honestly by luekj · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I trust that Crystal Dynamics could make a very original and probably good game based on the TR franchise, and core has pretty much just been milking the cow for the previous 3 or 4 sequals anyways. Though many devotees would disagree because some really did seem to like more of the same.

    Anyways, CD may make a tight TR game, but it's hard to predit whether the spirit of the original will be lost or discarded in favor of var(currenttrendinvideogameindustry) or float(increasing age of video game players).

    Maybe they'll just take some pictures of Jolie and start tying in directly with the movie characters. Heheh, I'm sure that will improve teh quality of the next TR movie immensely.

    Though it seems that all this 'movie sucks because game' sucks crap is why this change has occured.

    Stupid industry(/ies)

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    Luke

  5. Why don't they just 2.0 the game? by ArmorFiend · · Score: 1

    Their way out is simple:
    1) Fix the stupid bugs with Angel of Dorkness.
    2) Name it AoD 2.0
    3) Offer free upgrades and apologies to the few people who bought 1.0
    4) Everyone else has to pay
    5) regain lost honor
    6) Profit!

  6. A porn movie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Face it. Lara Croft looks like a porn actor. Angelina Jolie (or whatever) IS a porn actor.

    They should stop making these pathetic action movies. I wan't to see Lara in a porn movie.

    1. Re:A porn movie... by darylp · · Score: 1

      I wan't to see Lara in a porn movie.

      Then just do a search on Kazaa for 'Nude Raider'.

  7. overdue? by Datasage · · Score: 1

    Its about time they hand the franchise. But the question is, will the poor performance of AoD taint the series forever? After a bad game and a couple of bad movies, maybe its time to let it die.

    --
    In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
  8. Here's an idea! by PaddyM · · Score: 1

    Tomb Raiders of the Lost Ark

  9. give it 3D0! by August_zero · · Score: 1

    What they should do, is Hand the Tomb Raider franchise over to 3D0. They have years of expereince milking mediocre games for millions of sequels. Maybe we could see some "Army Men"/"Tomb Raider" cross overs. Like Lara gets shrunk down and then has to defeat the evil tan army while recovering some artifact of immense value.

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  10. Lower it into the ground already by Fastball · · Score: 1

    That franchise has had its run. Bury it. Move on. Come up with a new idea, that's right a new one, and build a moneysucking franchise out of it.

    1. Re:Lower it into the ground already by lokedhs · · Score: 1

      I was so hoping you'd suggest "The Sims - Tomb Raider Edition"

  11. Note to Eidos by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

    Stop worrying about maximizing commercial growth of the franchise and concentrate on making a quality game, no matter how long it takes. It's clear there was a decision up above to put out a new game to tie in with the movie release, but it clearly wasn't ready. Get the marketting people out of the decision making process and let the developers concentrate on making a qualiy game. The profits will come.

  12. Media Industry is full of corporate crap by ihatesco · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I can remember When Tomb Raider was born, and who made it. Core Design was a hell of a publisher. It published very good games for the Amiga, like Premiere (a very colorful platformer), Jaguar, and a very nice helicopter simulation.

    Core Design at the time was synonim of quality, of a good group that could make his own name to stand out.

    Then Playstation came out, Commodore crash and burned, and Core Design found herself to do three things:

    1. create a 3d game because all the lamers, pardon, the new videogamers brought in by the Sony Playstation wanted a 3d videogame, after having seen that spectaular demo (but gaming shite) of Toshinden they wanted a 3d game.
    2. find herself a new patron, because the playstation development model demanded your team to be under a patron publisher at all times (in order to get the sdks you have not only to spend gabazilions of dollars, but also to demonstrate to be "worthy" of attention).
    3. find a new way to create action videogames "the United Kingdom school"-way, since they lacked at the time. (Nowadays very few titles are action videogames like they were in the years of the Amiga, now all the software houses are american, and either they publish fps, or other action arcade titles they do are lame, lame, lame. Oh, yes, and Crash Bandicoot is shit, and the other titles mentioned by Crystal Dysuxmix is either inferior to many Amiga platformers or is something that has rpg-ey elements, so they don't count. There is no "American School" for arcade games. All the good action/arcade games are either english, japanese, or just overrated because there is no competition).

    After Tomb Raider 1, Eidos put the gun to Core Design's head and said: "if you want more money (a) surrender Lara Croft, (b) publish other Lara Croft games. No, we are not Nintendo, don't even TRY to do something else or you are OUT".

    Now what happens when the public gets tired of playing the same games for 7 times in a row?
    What happens if you get the same team to reprogram the same game for 7 times in a row and NO research and development (which is IMPORTANT in the Videogames Market, Japanese do a great deal of R&D)?
    What happen if in a franchise you put more hype than substance?
    You got it: you produce lame ass games and people will let them stay on the shelves.
    That was the rule in 1980 with Commodore 64 and Nintendos, that is the rule nowadays.

    Eidos taking Lara Croft from Core Design and giving the scepter to Crystan Dysuxmix is the sign that the dickheads at Eidos haven't understood a shit of what makes the videogame industry tick, and even if they have good developers and marketers under them they will soon be doomed. It happened to Square and to Sega which produced excellent games to be on the brink of death, why shouldn't it happen sooner or later to Eidos?

    Maybe Core is having a party right now because they already tried to kill the bitch some time ago (wasn't Lara supposed to be dead at the end of "The Last Revelation"? Or at least >?) and maybe they programmed the new videogame with their own asses just to say screw you to Eidos and screw you to Paramount... I wouldn't be surprised by that

    Anyway in 80s and 90s was the success of a movie that made or ruined the career of videogames. Paramount bitching about the poor sales of the videogame that reflected on the movie is someone spewing LIES to save their asses. A Movie Sells Itself. Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within, it was a great movie but wayyy off-topic from Final Fantasy. Its sales were low. But Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX, and the subsequent X were great sellers. Why do we have to believe to Paramount and Eidos corporate shit?

    And now mod me down as troll and flamebait, but American Videogame Industry is good for RPGs, FPs, Strategy Games, and might be good for sports games as well, but for action games American Videogame Industry sucks my balls.

    --
    "I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
    1. Re:Media Industry is full of corporate crap by lokedhs · · Score: 1

      They suck for Flight Simulators as well. Just look at the horrible abomination which is Microsoft Flight Simulator (and Combat Flight Simulator) compared to the the stuff rolling out of russian software development houses: IL-2 Sturmovik and Lock On: Modern Air Combat.

    2. Re:Media Industry is full of corporate crap by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe Core is having a party right now because they already tried to kill the bitch some time ago (wasn't Lara supposed to be dead at the end of "The Last Revelation"? Or at least >?) and maybe they programmed the new videogame with their own asses just to say screw you to Eidos and screw you to Paramount... I wouldn't be surprised by that

      Actually, I think Eidos just did them a huge favour, because Eidos forced the game to release to meet a fiscal quarter anyway, and the game did sell pretty well at first (it is #2 in the US in terms of sales($) so far this year, how bad is it that the top 2 games this year are generally considered buggy crap? Oh, and the first XBox game on the list comes in at #5 only because #6 and 7 are GBA titles (therefore have lower sales in terms of dollars, even though they sold far more units, surprisingly, though, that #5 title is not the XBox port of the #1 title, which comes in at #10). Of course, whether or not Core will be able to ever get funding to do anything else remains to be seen, since Eidos seems to have gone to great lengths to push the blame over to them.

      Anyway in 80s and 90s was the success of a movie that made or ruined the career of videogames.

      It still does make or ruin the success of the game. That #1 title is severely tied to the success of the Matrix series, obviously. Of course, the video game industry has always been hit & miss with movie licenses, and the same can be said of movies made from video game licenses, but neither stops people from looking, like people driving past a bad wreck.

      Paramount bitching about the poor sales of the videogame that reflected on the movie is someone spewing LIES to save their asses. A Movie Sells Itself.

      This is very true. I'd also add that the timing is just really bad for a Tomb Raider sequel, considering the other overhyped sequels this summer (and possibly the disappointment of those sequels, leading people to wait on Tomb Raider, whether they liked the first one or not). Not to mention they've just got to find a reason to shift the blame when a movie marketed towards kids took the #1 spot, although they should just admit that the summer market was itching for a kids movie now that we're 2 months into the summer break for all of those kids.

      Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within, it was a great movie but wayyy off-topic from Final Fantasy. Its sales were low. But Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX, and the subsequent X were great sellers. Why do we have to believe to Paramount and Eidos corporate shit?

      Final Fantasy doesn't require much to be on-topic, I just don't think the US market is completely ready for mature animation (and by mature I don't mean hentai), even computer animation, nor do I think that Square is necessarily the best group to try to break that market open. Their stories may work for games, but the movie, though stunning visually, just doesn't hold as well.

      And now mod me down as troll and flamebait, but American Videogame Industry is good for RPGs, FPs, Strategy Games, and might be good for sports games as well, but for action games American Videogame Industry sucks my balls.

      I think the American video game industry just has trouble figuring out what people want in those markets, and the Japanese industry has done a much better job producing (which probably has a lot to do with the fact that the Japanese industry takes a lot more risks and doesn't release in the US until they think they can sell it here). The US industry knows that if they make them good enough, FPS, RTS, and PC-RPGs (and sports) are all they really need, until the market turns away from them.

      On the flip-side of the coin, a lot of people are still trying to figure out how to do action games that people will enjoy now that everything's gone to 3D. Nintendo seems to have gotten this right, but their market for these types of games still isn't nearly as big as it used to be. Of course, now that Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire has sold ~

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    3. Re:Media Industry is full of corporate crap by blincoln · · Score: 1

      If you like 2D Amiga games so much, why not just keep playing them instead of getting upset that modern games aren't like that?

      If basic 2D action games were popular enough to be profitable, they would still be being made for today's consoles. IMO, though, they're totally played-out.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    4. Re:Media Industry is full of corporate crap by ihatesco · · Score: 1

      GBA market is full of 2d action games. Unfortunately only a little number of them are made by talented european makers (The two Iridions for example).

      --
      "I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
  13. Bad sales for the real reason by Mostly+Monkey · · Score: 1

    Personally I'm pleasently suprised that the industry is blaming the lousy sales on the fact that it's a poor game and not piracy.

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    Chika Chik-ah... do-e ow ow.
    1. Re:Bad sales for the real reason by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, Eidos is blaming the fact that it's a buggy pile on the developers, when Eidos is the one that forced it to ship to beat the end of the fiscal year.

      Oh, and the game didn't sell poorly at all, it's #2 on the sales charts for the year so far. The sales may, however, have dropped significantly after everyone figured out the horrible condition it was in.

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      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  14. Go the way of Metroid Prime by darkmayo · · Score: 1

    reinvent the series go with a completely new interface and style with of course the classic features of the Tomb Raider series..

    If it where up to me I would drop the cartoony Uber tit look of Lara Croft, keep her sexy but more real looking, take a pinch of Splinter Cell.. a hint of GTA(being free with what you can do) and steal a chunk from Metroid Prime. Add a good backstory, throw some actual history onto the tresures you are nicking and throw a bit of first person in there as well.

    but thats just my 2 cents.

    --
    "I am a kernel in the linux army"
    1. Re:Go the way of Metroid Prime by markimusk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that pretty much says it all, very good. But I keep seeing "the franchise is too old, change it". I'm no linguist but if it were to be radically changed it would no longer be a franchise.

      I think a lot of gamers bought into this game because they WANT more of the same, just a little better and updated. I think it is now called a franchise because (some) gamers were looking for these very qualities.

      I was eagerly anticipating AOD for the PS2 and after Lara hurled herself off a Parisienne balcony for the sixth time in "training mode" because the controls were uncontrollable I was suitably pissed.

      I went back and played the training level for TR4 on my DCast and you know what? it worked just fine, no problems at all. If you missed a jump, you could easily tell what you did wrong. ie: ok, that was MY fault. When you have to say "the controls just hurled Lara to her death!" then you know there is a problem.

      If Eidos had released this last November as planned, well ok, maybe a bit more understandable. However when they take the line "we will not release it until it's perfect", delay it for months and then release an unplayable piece of crap? There is no excuse at all.

      The head of development was fired (rightly so) and we should all be offered refunds and get a "fixed" version.

      end rant...
      Markimus of K.