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The GNU-Darwin World
proclus writes "The GNU-Darwin Distribution was founded
to leverage the open source development dynamic and build the infrastructure for
scientific computing on a new platform. Now GNU-Darwin is a major free software
project, and the infrastructure, such as parallel computing and molecular
graphics software is available to everyone via the web and on digital media
discs. Check it out. Also, Apple
has written up a story
about it."
It's great that Apple made Darwin open source, but MacOS X (the gui/apps/etc) still aren't. I guess they think that open source is to be only used when they are sure about making money with it.
I'll be glad when someone creates a generic Ports that works across all platforms. The news that Gentoo, Fink and Darwin ports where working together was great news. Gentoo has Linux, Fink Has MacOSX, and GnuDarwin has x86 and PPC.
FreeBSD/OpenBSD and all those Linux (Cooker type) distros have broken ports. Even the Binary only distros have broken packages. I think OpenBSD said 20%+ of BSD ports where broken, (anyone have the numbers?). This could fix all those problems across platforms.
Very nice.
Apple has this habit of steping on everyone's toes
I used to love the Mac. Coded for it, knew the thing
pretty inside out. Apple killed that when they killed the clones. They had a choice, and knew it, and considered it. They could have tried to become a mainstream manufacturer, with a lot of clout, and instead they chose to remain a high-priced niche manufacturer. (This isn't intended to stab at folks that still use Macs -- I'm just doubt I'll ever work in the Mac world again). They chose to serve folks who are willing to put down a fair amount of money for a polished closed-box experience. Not what I wanted -- I found Linux, and that was pretty much it.
So this makes me wonder what the point is of using Darwin. With OS X as a whole, there are some specific benefits that exist. Apple has UI standards in place, provides some services, like iTunes, that you may want. They've done a lot of eye candy. But is there any real point in using Darwin alone versus, say, Linux? Or, if you specifically want BSD, then compare it to plain ol' FreeBSD. I mean, what's the point?
May we never see th
"VIM, Ghostscript, Gnumeric, LaTeX, PyMOL [...] Rasmol, gdFortran, LAM/MPI, AbiWord, GNUplot, and Raster3D"
...not much there to entice me away from Linux, methinks.
GNU is open source.
Darwin is open source.
So... what exactly are we getting here? LinuxPPC is faster than Darwin, so if you wanted something closer to GNU than Darwin, wouldn't you use that?
What's the user benefit? This is for people who bought a Mac and don't want Apple's GUI work? Or is this all the stuff that Apple would like to put in Darwin, but can't, due to the GPL license?
Speaking of which, there's this:
Please note: GNU Project considers Darwin non-free software and therefore does not recommend the use of this operating system. (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/apsl.html)
I mean, let me get this straight: GNU Darwin is the version of Darwin that the GNU project doesn't recommend?
Can someone clear this up in plain English?
(sig) The last bug isn't fixed until the last user is dead. (/sig)
I used to follow the GNU-Darwin project quite heavily. I had installed it along side OS X and was even on the mailing lists. I must say that they do (or at least did) have extremely talented developers that have done a lot of good work for the project.
However, I found through the mailing list that the project is political to the extreme. Their most extreme bit of politics came when they decided to "discontinue" PPC development (as pudge mentioned) because they had issues with Apple. They were arrogant enough to think that this move would force Apple to backtrack on the things they had issues with.
It was about that time that I decided to drop GNU-Darwin completely. What kind of project drops support for the hardware that > 90% of their user-base is using? Well, from the looks of it they, not Apple, have backtracked and are still supporting PPC.
My advice would be to not take a second look at GNU-Darwin. Use Fink or OpenDarwin instead.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
I absolutely agree with this and the parent post.
/usr/ instead of /usr/local) is what turned me off GNU-Darwin.
The politics and annoying GNU/GPL preaching on various mailing lists (and in the early days the insistence on installing/stomping onto Apple-supplied system parts in
You seem to drift topics. The APSL has nothing to do with FCP, Safari, or anything else in those lanes.
>FCP
Best of its class, hands down. This is called "making a competing product" and is normal business strategy--not forcing someone out of the market.
>Safari
You really need to stop drinking the Kool Aid.
No one really competes with Safari, not because Safari, but because Safari is *good*. Apple distributed a sucky version of IE as its standard web-browser and that has a *lot* to do with the user experience for a typical user. They needed to replace it, and no other web-browser for the mac quite cut it.
Once again. They produced a better product. Safari is now my primary web browser, not because I haven't used Mozilla or Camino, but because it is the best for what I do on the web (speed counts for a lot).
>Soundtrack
Who did Apple "force out" with this one?
They also needed something so that labels could publish music in m4p format, suitable for the iTMS.
You want an example? Take Watson. But none of your examples quite cut it.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
Take a look at their quickstart script, which they suggest that you use by piping it to csh as root.
The first few steps:
They never check to see if the download was corrupted, or if someone had replaced it with something else.
Is it so hard to do something like:
For each of the few programs and libraries that they need to download to get the package manager up and running?
I've complained about this before, and I'm sorry to have to do so again, but running an unverified binary as root right after you download it is one of the STUPIDEST ideas I have seen.
We never said that we would produce no more new stuff for PPC, but rather that we would not link to proprietary libraries.
You yourself wrote: Second, we will be moving our operations to x86, and we are putting the ppc collection into maintenance mode. Read it yourself if you forget.
Uh, since many people still think it means what I said it means, no, it is not a dead horse. Again, how is it different from what it was before? Is there an answer, or not?
Dude, I *emailed you* to confirm that story before I posted on MacSlash, and you confirmed it. Is there some other version of fair reporting you'd like?
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/
Lol, good one pudge.
This article is proclus's annual "we're still around, notice us!" message. It seems that Dr. Michael Love, aka proclus, has some sort of need to continue pestering the Macintosh community. I too have tried to make sense out of his claim that the PowerPC platform is unsupported by his GNUness, while still remaining supported somehow. Through all of his ranting and ravings I have come to a simple conclusion: ignore him.
Proclus, along with the other trolls who frequent Slashdot and MacSlash, has gotten himself such a bad reputation for FUD tactics that I don't know of a single person who takes what he says at face value. Proclus does his GNU ideals more harm than good by appearing to be so zealous and fostering the impression that open source advocates are the computer equivalent to suicide bombers, taking down "big corporate business" at all costs.
Honestly, most of us just want to use our computers as easily as possible. If it is a choice between something that works easily and something that waves a banner around then I will definitely go with the solution that is the easiest to work with. If open source really wants to make an impact on people then they would do more for the cause by making their products better rather than spending so much time on useless advocacy.
How about working with Apple on their open source efforts? I know that some people think that Apple's open license isn't as "free" as it should be but they have made changes to open it up more and they are likely to do so again if the need is there. Apple has worked very closely with the open source community and there are many opportunities to show them that they are doing the right thing and to convince them to work even closer with open source.
Sapere aude!