Slashdot Mirror
The Thermal Paste Revolution
arhines writes "ZZZ is running an article about an interesting new thermal paste which surpasses even solder in thermal conductance by 33 percent. If this paste makes it to the market sometime soon, we'll all surely be thinking about putting it in our boxes. In fact, if use of the paste becomes commonplace, it may even give the semiconductor industry a little speed boost."
" Lots of OEM or low end cooling setups use either a thermal interface pad (TIM) or that white goop you get at radio shack. The fact is that neither of those does a great job of transferring heat from the processor to the heatsink. While they work ok, they don't exactly assist Moore's law in fulfilling itself by limiting clock speeds with heat." Actually, that's hardly true at all. RS's compound has been found to be one of the best out there. Just take a look at some reviews that include it.
I got a +5, Troll
Hopefully it wont be so difficult to apply as the previous implementation of this goop
Maybe this stuff can be put in all those crappy DSL modems and routers that freeze up due to overheating. It would be easier than modding the whole damn thing to pieces with fans and whatnot...
It's been true for some time that the thermal junction between the top of the chip and the heatsink isn't nearly as important as the internal heat disipation (sp?) of the chip. While a modern chip with a decent heatsink can feel merely warm to the touch the internal gate temperature can be aproaching bounderies where the thermal stress is actually damaging gates. This is one of several barriers keeping 3D memory chips from becoming reality (the other major one is cost of manufacturing a working chip of multiple layers, but even pie in the sky lab samples have problems because of heat disipation from the core of the stack.)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Working in a test lab for PCs I encountered one problem with heat conducting paste: Since Intel introduced the mPGA 478 housing for their CPUs the ZIF socket on the mainboard is much smaller than the heatsink above. That means, if the paste between processor and heatsink is too much adhesive it is like the processor is glued to the heatsink and every time you remove the heatsink (e.g. for changing the CPU) you pull out the processor from a closed ZIF socket! Ok, so far the processors survived but I don't think that this is nice anyway.
I have a tube of Arctic Silver 2 (yeah, I'm like two generations behind) but I'm not sure that I really needed it. This dude tried out several non-conventional thermal transfer compounds, including vegemite.(!) When properly applied, there wasn't a huge difference between them. In fact, in the (extremely specific) conditions, the vegemite and toothpaste outperformed the Arctic Silver! (Obviously, you should read the article for details.)
The article's point isn't that you should be using toothpaste; rather, it's that make sure you properly apply whatever thermal compound you do use, and don't expect miracles. No matter how effective your thermal transfer, you've still got to dump the heat somewhere. If you're running close to the edge of thermal failure, there are almost certainly other, much more effective cooling solutions. This new paste is probably a good thing, but don't expect miracles.
no need to worry about voiding warranties. just pick up a bottle of ronsonol or similar lighter fluid, and wipe it off clean. no one will ever know the difference!
You still use Thermal Grease when water-cooling. The water block just replaces a heatsink. The biggest problem with thermal grease and water cooling is that you lack the vibration of the fan to help the grease settle properly into the tiny gaps, so it actually takes a couple of weeks to get a noticable change in temperature. Maybe this stuff would help, I don't know the /. effect seems to have cooked their server.
About 10 years ago I was working on a product that used 200 Amp IGBT's for a traction drive. I spent about a month researching the thermal circuits used to cool these devices.
The conclusion: The best thermal contact is metal to metal. The best way of acheiving this is by "lapping" the contact area's together with a fine abrasive. Once your have done this the application of a minute amount of thermal grease improves conductivity by less than 0.5%. We also discovered that applying more than a fine film or grease significantly decreased the conductivity (10% or more).
Lay off the grease!
Although is posting is moderated as funny, this guy is absolutely right. I think, all the cooling stuff that is put into x86-based PCs in these days is just the wrong way. Computers should be well-designed (I'm speaking of the hardware, not the case), and when CPU manufacturers can't produce CPUs that stay cool enough with only a passive cooler, then they shouldn't sell these CPUs. I mean, powerful computers can be built without this botch. For example, all the computers built by Apple, or the VAXstations that were built by DEC. VAXstations were pretty powerful machines (especially the VS4000 series), and they came without any passive coolers. Only the PSU had a fan, which was extremely silent. And the VAXstation was a much more powerful computer than a PC at the time they were built.
A monkey is doing the real work for me.
Oh dear lord. You haven't heard a "Windtunnel" G4 at full howl, have you? ;)
I have a QuickSilver G4 on my desk, and let me assure you, it is far from fanless. The Windtunnels (AKA "Quad Nostril") took it a step further.
I agree that some current CPU designs are downright absurd (Intel so completely gave up on the concept of being able to cool their highly-clocked - over-clocked if you ask me - chips that they designed in a feature to slow down/turn off sections of the chip in order to lower temperatures), but passive cooling only gets you so much. I really doubt VAXstations could operate efficiently with a pair of 15,000rpm drives inside the case, which my QS handles with reasoanble aplomb (though I splurged on additional cooling - mostly a PCP&C external supply exhaust fan - to keep temps at reasonable levels).
The last fanless Apple desktop computer I can think of were the 2nd-generation iMacs (the ones with completely clear sides, or flower-power, and whatever god-awful color scheme they came up with at the end). Everything else from their recent lineups, even portables, have had fans.
Supposedly the G5s will feature quieter operation, by virtue of seperated thermal zones with different thermally-controlled fans exhausting air from each zone - they only spin as fast as that zone requires. To some extent, it is probably the wave of the future in this regard, in that increased thermal needs have butted up against all the buffont bettys tranquility requirements.
But if another artist whines about how loud their 10,000+rpm drive is, and how their tuned-for-quiet-not-performance-operation IDE drive at home is quieter, I swear I'm gonna stuff a high-CFM 120mm fan in their pie-hole... and maybe a high-cfm 80mm fan in their corn chute.
Nah. That'd be cruel.
You know, I don't WANT another cooling method... I don't want processor makers to be able to squeeze another few MHz out of their processors for one simple reason... They run too damn hot already!
I say this for two important reasons:
#1. More heat happens to mean that much more power is being wasted. Here in CA, electricity is expensive, and my electric bill doubled when I hooked-up my new system. Now I'm paying more for the electricity to keep my computer running 24/7 (yes, it needs to be running) than I am for my 1.5M/768kbps DSL... That's just so very wrong.
#2. I live in a big damn desert... That means temperatures are regularly very close to 130F degrees... It seems like 9 months out of the year temperatures are above 100F, and keeping a system cool when temperatures are that high is not easy. I've been forced to install a swamp cooler near my computers, and although that does a good job of cooling, it is louder than the most annoying computer fan you've ever heard, so it's not a plesant solution. Don't talk to me about water cooling/heat pipes becasue they only conduct the heat out of the computer, leaving it to heat up the building. Don't talk about sucking the heat outdoors, because it's so hot outdoors that the computers would be overheating in no time.
Personally, I would love to be using a fast PPC machine, but the price is just prohibitive... I'd have to be using my current Athlon XP 2000 for years before the electric bill would ammount to the inital price of an equivalently fast PPC system, and that wouldn't be taking into account that the PPC system would still be using up 1/4-1/2 the same ammount of electricity.
Frankly, I would like to see Laptop computer processors in desktop systems. That would be a decent compromise, that would keep things cool, without having something that is incredibly slow (eg. Via C3).
(Oh yeah, and: #3. Global warming crap, blah blah blah.)
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant