Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

A Water Molecule's Chemical Formula Isn't Really H20

Posted by timothy on from the at-least-not-all-the-time dept.

hackwrench writes "According to this article in Physics News Update, a water molecule's chemical formula is really not H2O, at least from the perspective of neutrons and electrons interacting with the molecule for only attoseconds (less than 10-15 seconds). According to new and recent experiments, neutrons and electrons colliding with water for just attoseconds will see a ratio of hydrogen to oxygen of roughly 1.5 to 1, so a more accurate formula for water under these circumstances would be H1.5O."

9 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Question. by Malcolm+Scott · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or perhaps you mean H3O2. But anyway, it's all quantum, so we may well be talking about half-atoms floating round.....

  2. Can you say WRONG by MarkusQ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Bah! The interpretation given this research is absurd. If I invented a new machine to count the legs on cows, and my machine said that typical cows had three legs each, what would we conclude? That we'd been wrong about cows all these years, or that my machine wasn't working quite the way I'd expected it to?

    In the present case, a better headline would have been something like "Unexpected effect hides some protons in neutron & electron scattering experements."

    -- MarkusQ

  3. Re:Question. by fm6 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    To a chemist, maybe. To a physicist there's nothing abusrd about saying "half an oxygen atom" or "50% chance of interacting with an oxygen atom".

    Well, I exaggerate. But you got to admit that modern physics is really weird.

  4. H1.5 by Transcendent · · Score: 1, Interesting

    How the hell do you have HALF of a hydrogen nucleus? .5 protons? ...so it's being reduced to quarks for a little while now?!

  5. this is really stupid by chadamir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    the definition of a molecule is "The smallest particle of a substance that retains the chemical and physical properties of the substance and is composed of two or more atoms."

    Take one water molecule and it will be H2O What comes into play when multiple particles collide has nothign to do with anything

    --
    NJ Local Music Scene
    1. Re:this is really stupid by X-rated+Ouroboros · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's the boiling point of one molecule of water?

      if not for the hydrogen bonds between adjacent H2O molecules, water would have a much lower boiling point than is observed. A single molecule of H2O would have no hydrogen bonding. Perhaps it's boiling point would be in line with the rest of the H2_ series (The BP of H2S is about -60C, for example). Thus, because it does not have all the physical properties, an H2O molecule is not the same as a water molecule. In fact, we don't get the behaviour of water until we take into account what comes into play when multiple H2O molecules collide. And that's just totally ignoring the whole issue about observers interacting with the systems they observe.

      BUT, experimentally determining the boiling point of a single molecules of H2O (heating a fluorocarbon emulsion?) and determining that the boiling point of one molecule of H2O is -83C doesn't change the bulk properties of the water we all know and love. Likewise, determining under very specific experiental conditions that water gives the appearance of being H1.5O is just as uninteresting.

      Oh, and for all the people scoffing at the image of half a proton... What, exactly, does a whole proton look like? Perhaps this will help give you some ideas.

      --
      Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions
  6. Re:By my references... by jgoemat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree it is a little misleeding how they say it, but they do say in the 100-500 attosecond range, which is less than 10e-15 (0.1 to 0.5 * 10e-15) and close enough to say "less than 10e-15" and get the point across...

  7. Re:No single instant of time by fehlschlag · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Article:...for only attoseconds (less than 10-15 seconds)...
    and
    Post: That should be 10^-15 seconds, not 10-15 seconds.

    Nonetheless, an attosecond is still less than 10 to 15 seconds, as correctly stated in the article.

    Lol.

  8. Re:Question. by Dahan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not illegal per se... see the definition of non-stoichiometric. One of the first high-temperature superconductors has the formula YBa2Cu3O7-d (d should be a lowercase delta), where d is a small number, so you end up with something like YBa2Cu3O6.95 or YBa2CU3O6.7. However, In this particular case, I think saying that water is like H1.5O is incorrect, or at least misleading.