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Red Hat Sues SCO, Sets Up Legal Fund

Posted by simoniker on from the the-saga-continues dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Red Hat has released a PR Newswire article stating that it intends to sue SCO Group to prove that it doesn't infringe any of SCO's intellectual property regarding the Red Hat Linux platform, and to hold it accountable for its actions and smear campaign. They've also announced the creation of a legal fund, to which they've pledged $1M US dollars to fight complaints such as these, called the 'Open Source Now' fund."

35 of 787 comments (clear)

  1. Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by mao+che+minh · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Awesome. Maybe after the trial Red Hat and SCO can rub both of their one-dollar bills together and split on a Big Mac.

    I'm sorry, but IBM (the company that has made billions in revenue off GNU/Linux) should be floating the bill. Red Hat is too poor to be getting into a legal slug fest with a company that has literally transformed themselves into a litigation firm. IBM has the money to fight, while Red Hat might end up getting dragged through the proverbial legal-mud, and never really get anywhere.

    What might serve Red Hat better is to send their customers information regarding how absurd SCOs claims are, complete with the opinions of legal experts on the matter, like the OSDLs terrific "position paper". The people, especially those in the corporate world, have to be clearly shown how absurd and evil SCOs actions have been. Litigation by a small company is going to be long, expensive, and perhaps in the end fruitless.

    Regarding the OSDL's paper, I personally like the analogy made concerning publishing houses:

    Imagine the literary equivalent of SCO's current bluster:
    Publishing house A alleges that the bestselling novel by Author X topping the charts from Publisher B plagiarizes its own more obscure novel by Author Y. "But," the chairman of Publisher A announces at a news conference, "we're not suing Author X or Publisher B; we're only suing all the people who bought X's book. They have to pay us for a license to read the book immediately, or we'll come after them." That doesn't happen, because that's not the law.

    1. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm sorry, but IBM (the company that has made billions in revenue off GNU/Linux) should be floating the bill. Red Hat is too poor to be getting into a legal slug fest with a company that has literally transformed themselves into a litigation firm. IBM has the money to fight, while Red Hat might end up getting dragged through the proverbial legal-mud, and never really get anywhere.

      Red Hat is a preferred Linux provider to IBM, in fact they support all of 4 of IBM's platforms. They have a pretty tight partnership.

      What's good for IBM's bottom line is good for Red Hat's bottom line. Ultimately, IBM will be footing the bill. One way or the other.

    2. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by cshark · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Here's an interesting thought:

      If SCO is being "guided" by Microsoft, perhaps Red Hat is being "guided" by IBM. It would be essentially the same tactic, and would ultimately fit IBM's interests, and those of the open source community.

      Something like this really puts the burden of proof on SCO, and decide the validity of an IP suit once and for all. I applaud it, whoever is pulling the strings...

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    3. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The uncertainty around Linux is hurting RedHat now. This isn't necessarily a billion dollar lawsuit. They are basically just saying "put up or shut up". Maybe IBM will contribute to the fund. IBM is fighting its own lawsuit. Remember, IBM doesn't sell their own Linux, they package other RedHat and SUSE. Nobody should want IBM to open up its big bag-o-patents as this is somewhat of a Pandora's box.

      The important thing is that RedHat is trying to force SCO's hand rather than just waiting for SCO to start suing it or its customers. If there is infringing code, hopefully SCO will have to say what it is.

    4. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by mortonda · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it also works well to let Red Hat be the barking dog to distract them while IBM prepares the death blow. :)

    5. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by CleverFox · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is not about winning. It is about preserving image. SCO's image was automatically weakened by this lawsuit and RHAT's strengthened. I don't believe they will have to spend much money on this. Already, SCO's stock has dropped 16% today after RHAT's lawsuit announcement. That is a good thing.

    6. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by robslimo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nah. At the risk of taking a too cynical view, I think Red Hat may have observed the recent spikes in SCO's stock price and decided to do a little pumping themselves. Maybe they figure if the idiot investors of the world thought SCO's stock should be more valuable because they made waves with their lawsuit and general FUD, that Red Hat could appeal to the Linux loyalists and maybe the other half of the idiot investors and do a little pumping of their own.

    7. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Rubbish. Microsoft relies on the government-granted monopoly of copyright (and lately patent). Microsoft represents levels of control over information dissemination that Stalin could only dream of via DRM. Microsoft is fundamentally anticapitalist, and represents a 45-billion dollar black hole sucking in capital from companies that might have otherwise produced something physical and useful.

    8. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 5, Insightful
      A goofball ruling might have IBM handing over a few Bills, but Red Hat would go out of business altogether.

      There's a second reason for RedHat to file it's own case against SCO: The SCO/IBM lawsuit is a complicated case that could go on for years. SCO could bury Linux under an avalanche of FUD by then. On the other hand, a lawsuit for declaratory relief could go much faster. In a realatively simple case, RH could simply say:

      • They've been selling code under the GPL,
      • They were clearly aware the code they're claiming ownership of as of their filings against IBM,
      • They were still selling the code as of that date
      • SCO is willfully frustrating the GPL community's ability to determine which code is supposedly SCO's -- and their CEO has stated that this is because he is afraid that the Linux community would excise such code.
      • These are the terms of the GPL
      • We request a declaration that all of the code distributed by SCO as of that date be declared licensed consistent with the GPL.

      The nice thing about this is that -- especially if it avoids any contentious facts, it could be ammenable to a summary finding in a few mnths rather than waiting a generation or two for the IBM suit to wind it's way through the courts.

      A declaration of GPLization of the code would pretty much absolve Red Hat of any claim by SCO. It might also leave SCO open to suits by Copyright owners of Linux that SCO has been in violation of the GPL by threatening users of that same code P>With a declaration that Linux is 'clean' visa-vis SCO, those secondary suits can afford to take the more leisurely pace that more commonly follow.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    9. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Creep73 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1. If the Red Hat vs. SCO goes to trial before SCO vs. IBM SCO will need to substantiate their claims earlier then they would have wanted giving IBM prep time.

      2. Red Hat may or may not be big enough to fight SCO however SCO will burn through money fighting them. This could be the first of several lawsuits brought against SCO because of its recent tactics.

      3. SCO is trying to convince Linux users to purchase Unix licenses to protect themselves from lawsuits. This type of blackmail should not be tolerated and could end up hurting companies like Red Hat. It would stand to reason that Red Hat would wish to protect their customers and this lawsuit should create confidence within the Linux market. (Something people have been worried about)

      I applaud Red Hat.

    10. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In short: IBM will float the bill only if it is in their own interest.

      p.s. IBM pay my rent. They are ace. I love IBM. \0/

      I can't necessarily argue with your point, but I do remember the old joke "how do you make a penguin fly?" with the picture of a penguin (with the word "linux" on it) duct taped to a giant air plane (with the letters "IBM" on it)...

      Back when I first started messing with linux (redhat 4.2 days) it seems the best support for linux WAS IBM. I could be wrong, but either IBM was releasing enough info to write drivers or drivers, or all the hackers were using IBM servers. My experience was I could easily install an IBM box, but not so easy for other servers (think 5.2, 6.2 mainly) without patches.

      Also, I have only had to call IBM twice for parts for their boxes. Both times they were cheap boxes, and needed parts out of warranty. Both times they sent them free, including postage. Maybe it was in their interest somehow, I don't know, I wasn't anyone on their radar at all. But I still have several of their servers NOW, and can't wait for 4x 970cpu boxes to come out. First because they treated a guy with a crappy 386/ps1 pretty nice. Second, every IBM I ever owned, workstation or server installed linux really nice and easy. Third, they embraced Linux with more than words (to the tune of $1billion). And they have done a few other things, like contribute code to the GPL, which is more than any other company I have seen. (Compaq? HP? Sun? Dell?) Perhaps the anti-trust background and lawsuits of IBM's past made them wake up, and turn into a responsible company. I also like the fact that they make damn good equipment. (still drooling over 970s)

      Yes, they are another company out to make a buck, but my experience has shown they made it with ME by holding my hand, rather than walking on my back.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    11. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by MrResistor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Microsoft is fundamentally anticapitalist

      I'm not sure I would say that. Anti Free Market, sure, but not anticapitalist. In many ways I would say Microsoft is the pinnacle of capitalism.

      Funny how capitalism and communism in their purest forms are basically indistinguishable...

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    12. Re:Is Red Hat big enough to fight? by mabinogi · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's seven counts...
      1 for a declaritory judgement that there is no Coprighted SCO code in RedHat Linux, or if there is, that it's not enforceable.
      2 for a declaratory judgement that there is no SCO owned Trade Secrets in RedHat Linux

      3. False advertising
      4. Deceptive trade practices
      5. Unfair competition
      6. Tortious interference with prospective business oportunities
      7. Trade Libel and Disparagement.

      Source: http://lwn.net/images/ns/rh-complaint.pdf

      At first it just looked like they were covering themselves, but the last 5 show that they're on the offensive.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
  2. Story on ZDNet too by buzzdecafe · · Score: 5, Informative

    This story is here as well:
    Red Hat files suit against SCO

    1. Re:Story on ZDNet too by bigjocker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From the ZDNET article:

      "We have asked the courts to declare no violation of intellectual property and trade secrets have occurred," Szulik said. "We've been patient, we've listened, but when our customers and the whole open-source community are threatened with innuendo and rumor, it's time to act."

      They can count on all the money I can spare. We have waited for a long time for a Legal Fund to be formed and here is it, let's put our wallets where our mouth is and start helping our side with the real tool that can deliver this FUDfest to an end (in the end the truth or justice will not be the fundamental matter to settle this): money.

      --
      Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
  3. Question for lawyers... by bloggins02 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this help RedHat's customers? I mean, SCO can't really do anything to RedHat's customers while they are involved in a lawsuit with RedHat themselves?

    Or can they? I honestly don't know...

  4. Went out and bought Redhat + sent in $10 by kenp2002 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Went out and bought anoter copy of Red Hat at lunch and mail Red Hat $10 for the legal fund. If only 5% of slashdot readers followed suit :)

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
    1. Re:Went out and bought Redhat + sent in $10 by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 5, Funny

      In related news...
      I will also be suing SCO. Everyone reading this post, please send me $5.00.

      heh heh

      --

      Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
  5. 90 million? by rawshark · · Score: 5, Informative

    Red Hat has 90 million in cash and short terms, hardly "poor".

    http://biz.yahoo.com/fin/l/r/rhat_qb.html

  6. OSNF Non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation? by David+Hume · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They've also announced the creation of a legal fund, to which they've pledged $1M US dollars to fight complaints such as these, called the 'Open Source Now' fund."


    If wonder whether the OSNF (Open Source Now Fund) is a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation? Should it be? If so, should Red Hat's contributions to it be tax deductible? While others will benefit from the fund, so of course will Red Hat.

    Also, who will be administering the OSNF? Will they work for or be connected to Red Hat? Who will make the decisions regarding the disbursement of funds, etc.?

    --
    Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
  7. Guess you could say... by dcypher_67 · · Score: 5, Funny

    They've thrown their HAT in the ring?
    Sorry, had to say it.

  8. Sure they are by missing000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yahoo Finance reports that Red Hat has a market cap of 1.159 Billion, while SCO only has a 151.9 Million market cap.

    While market capitalization does not tell the whole story, it does show that Red Hat is a much more financially powerful company.

    With that and the fact that they almost certainly have a rock solid case, the fact is they should sue the shit out of SCO.

    1. Re:Sure they are by Mr+Bill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's interesting to see that we look at the amount of money a company has in order to figure out who is most likely to come out on top when it comes to litigation.

  9. It's a "put up or shutup" Suit by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 5, Informative
    Red Hat filed the complaint in the U.S. District Court of Delaware. The seven-count suit seeks, among other things, a declaratory judgment that Red Hat has not violated SCO's copyrights or trade secrets, Red Hat CEO Matthew Szulik said at a news conference here on Monday.

    This is a SEPARATE issue from the "Open Source Now Fund". I havne't found a copy of the filing, but making unsubstantiated and untrue public statements about your competitors is a serious buiness law violation.

  10. Re:SCO stock (SCOX) down 15% on the news by killmenow · · Score: 5, Funny

    Buy a lotto ticket. Your odds of making money are better that way.

  11. Models file class action suit! by Otter · · Score: 5, Funny
    In the sidebar:
    U.S. authorities are looking into charges that top modeling agencies have conspired to cheat their clients by charging inflated commissions and expenses, sources close to the case said on Monday.

    Last month a federal judge granted class action status to a complaint against several modeling agencies, including Elite Model Management and Ford Models Inc.

    The class is expected to be made up of thousands of models. The judge appointed the law firm of Boies, Schiller & Flexner as lead counsel.

    Elite and Ford are both top modeling agencies. Elite models include actress Lara Flynn Boyle as well as Lauren Bush, niece of President Bush. Ford represents supermodels like Christie Brinkley, Jerry Hall, Frederique, and Rachel Hunter.

    The suit, filed in Manhattan federal court, alleges the agencies fixed models' commission rates at 20 percent, twice the 10 percent allowed by state law for employment agencies. The models alleged that the defendants conspired to evade state pricing regulations by calling themselves model management companies.

    Hmmm, can we talk incessantly about this case instead? It certainly sounds like the courtroom scenes will be more eye-pleasing than anything we'll see in Red Hat vs. SCO.

    --
    What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
  12. I've got an idea.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    For a SWEET Publicity idea for SCO.

    They and Metallica should get together an throw a "free benefit concert" for promoting "fair protections for intellectual property." They could send out mailers to their dwindelling fanbase, and invite critics to come too. And then just when the show is about to start Darl McBride and Lars could get in their matching gold plated limos and start running over the assembled crowd.

  13. Re:SCO stock (SCOX) down 15% on the news by dmaxwell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As seen on Yahoo Finance. Time to buy? :)

    I know you're joking but from a strictly speculator point of view, it might not be a bad idea. I've been watching the SCOX price for a few months and have noticed a tendency of SCO's PR. Whenever the price drops or plateau's, you can count on yet another outrageous PR release from SCO to pump it back up. Before the week is out, expect SCO to make some sort of apocalyptic statement in regard to RedHat.

  14. Hmmm...Subpoenas by radulovich · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is quite interesting, and should impact SCO considerably. By initiating this action, Red Hat can enter the "discovery" phase, which will allow the lawyers (and developers?) to see the ALL of the code that SCO says infringes on their intellectual property.

    The end result should be that Red Hat will be able to wipe away the FUD, and get down to the bottom of what SCO really owns. Assuming SCO owns anything, Red Hat can then begin work on removing that code. Also, if Red Hat wins, they will probably get monetary damages, which always helps.

    Go Red Hat!

    (Now I suppose I should actually buy the distro instead of downloading the ISO's...)

    -Mark

  15. Open Source Now Fund by trisweb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "To further protect the integrity of Open Source software and the Open Source community, Red Hat has established the Open Source Now Fund. The purpose of the fund will be to cover legal expenses associated with infringement claims brought against companies developing software under the GPL license"

    I think the SCO suit is great for Redhat, but even better for the community is this legal fund. I don't know if it's non-profit, or how it works exactly, but ideally it would (and should) be a fund to help take care of any OSS-movement threatening lawsuits or legal issues. This is something Open Source has never had before, and that large corporations have always had. This may give OSS the support it needs to grow without threats from any company out to stop it -- like SCO. The way they describe it, it seems like something meant to be a "legal department" for Open Source.

    It may just be me, but I think that's the bigger picture here.

    --
    "!"
  16. Re:Babylon 5 -- SCO analogy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Even though I think Babylon 5 is a great show, I think you are a total loser.

  17. Re:Be careful what you wish for! by saddino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Red Hat may win. That would prove that it is illegal to talk bad about your competetor.

    No, it would prove that it is illegal to make false claims about your competitor.

    The Microsoft can sue anyone who uses a dollar sign in place of an s when referring to them.

    No again.

    Then /. is in trouble. No one can post anything bad about them.

    And a final no. This might help you.

  18. Re:It was only a matter of time... by Arker · · Score: 5, Informative

    Suse already got an injunction against them in Germany. German courts pretty much told them to shut the hell up unless they could back their allegations up, so they... shut the hell up. Not a peep out of them in Germany since.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  19. Re:Sure... when they fix up2date. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    What the hell are you talking about?

    * up2date surveys/support cuts for old releases
    So what if Redhat doesn't support old releases. Use up2date and your machine will be updated to new releases automatically. The only difference between releases is /etc/issue, anyway.

    * mp3
    Patent issues. I doubt Fraunhofer will allow Redhat to license the mp3 formats for GPLed software (for obvious reasons).

    * exiting the boxed set market
    Last version of redhat I downloaded via BitTorrent. It went pretty smooth. It was the first set of isos I've downloaded off the internet and it was slick. I won't ever buy a boxed set again!

    * no reiserfs/xfs
    For reiserfs, install with "linux reiserfs". XFS? Who uses that anyway?

  20. Redhat couldn't wait any longer by ukalum · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I used to work at FedEx and still have some friends there. One of them told me that FedEx wants to sign a huge contract with Redhat for a bunch of servers, but the FedEx legal department wants Redhat to indemnify FedEx against damages if SCO wins, which of course Redhat refuses to do.

    Consequently, FedEx has been talking to HP about buying the software through them rather than RedHat.

    I'm sure that there are other instances of Redhat's getting hurt by all of the garbage SCO is spewing. I would guess that at least one reason they're doing this is they can't afford to wait any longer for someone else (IBM) to.