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Phone or Tracking Device?
Red Wolf writes "The first major commercial service that traces people's locations using their mobile phones -- mapAmobile -- is designed more to ease the minds of worried parents and suspicious bosses than to enable unauthorised spying."
That's how it always starts. As more and more companies use it, and when corporations finally control it, those safeguards will slowly be peeled away in the name of security and efficiency - by then it will be so common that most of us probably won't even notice the loss of privacy at all, and others will even encourage it in order to help catch criminals.
FP
Sorry, but "easing the mind of a suspicious boss" is still "unauthorized spying" by any reasonable definition of the term.
Roving Web-Teleoperated Robot
Prefer to Die? Prove it. i think you're full of shit.
How long will it take before there's a option on the mobile device to disable this? Even if they don't offer it, I'm sure it'll be hacked pretty quick.
Or a novel idea, turn the phone off!.
sigh...why is it that the RIAA ought to embrace filesharing as a technological inevitability, yet we should somehow stem the tide of technological innovation in other areas? Just get used to it: technology will move forward, always, in directions you may like, in directions you may dislike, and in directions you could never imagine.
if you don't like the fact that it is possible for your cellphone location to be tracked, then don't use one!
..but if you are really interested in moving around throughout this land of ours with being tracked by big brother's watchful eye in the sky, then you can LEAVE YOUR NOKIA AT HOME.
It's a no-brainer.
--
If you do not like the fact that this device will allow anyone to find out exactly where you are, I emphatically recommend that you not purchase one.
That is all.
-- I Am Not A Terrorist.
Of course, what value is coerced consent? The two groups of people this is clearly intended to be used on -- children and employees -- will not be 'consenting' in any kind of free manner.
'Consent because I'm your legal guardian and can consent on your behalf' and 'Consent or lose your job' don't really count as consent in my book.
The cellphone is becoming a tool for employers to squeeze away the last vestiges of a personal life for their employees. First is the expecation of being contactable at all hours, day or night, instantaneously (and thus the expectation that people will never be doing anything they can't be called away from). Now, they can't just contact you, they can find out where you are, at any moment, and without your knowledge.
And as for those of us living in the United States, you really think the Justice Dept. isn't going to press for access to this kind of thing -- with as little judicial safeguards as they can get away with?
Ugh.
1) You have the right to question the vendor of a product your buying and determine whether or not you want this.
2) No one is making this a standard it is a company doing what they want, so I don't see the big hoorah around this
3) It might actually come in handy considering if someone were kidnapped, this could be a possible method of determining their whereabouts.
Sure there are pros and cons behind this, but it isn't anything new. Now if this were any longer I would rant on about Applied Digital Solutions' Digital Angel product, and how the DOJ is looking into using them in the future.
That is truly newsworthy. Besides one could set up their own triangulator to do the same thing if they really wanted to track you. Expensive yea, but it's doable without going through some company
MoFscker
Then dont use a cell phone.
Theres nothing anonymous about cell technology, there never was, and never will be.
It's idiotic to think so. You can trace a land line, whats special about a cell phone?
Frankly I dont give a rats ass if you die on the side of the road after calling 911. I'm more worried about the people in the other car, who aren't nearly as paranoid and delusional as you are.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
It could become lucurative business to sell such information
Remember TIVO which now dishes key press information out to bidders at a zip code level - they could do something like that...
land lines aren't carried around with you where ever you go. If you decide to pick up and go to City X no one knows that you did that.
Old school triangulation was an effort that took quite a bit of time and wasn't something that was used all the time.
I don't need my cell phone being equipped with GPS and having them beam localized advertisements to my exact location (I am standing outside McDonalds in downtown Place X) and BAM, a text message that says "Eat Rotton Ronnies Today!"
How about I leave the house and drive down the road at 91mph because I feel like it and the police track me going 91, wait for me ahead, and pull me over?
That's what I am worried about.
Turn it off...
I keep my cell off a lot. Why? I use it for MY convienence... It's for me to make a call, not to be pestered when I'm in the car, at the mall, eating dinner, etc.
Corporatism != Free Market
I think that other technologies will come to mask the effects of this one, and thus balance and privacy will be restored.
I feel that the general tone that these are inherently bad for their potential to become aweful, but personally I would prefer for this to come to the publics attention rather then being used secretively without our knowledge.
I do, however think that legal actions can be done that can harm us much greater than any new technology. This is why we should investigate this technology, and advocate its opening up to standards so that it may not become a device to monitor people like herds. But will become a device that everyone knows how it works, and how to cirumvent it if neccessary.
We should all fight for a GPL of this, not scream that its the anti-christ of privacy... Technology, like the show, must go on!
Cell phones are RF devices. They broadcast. They say "I am here!" and the nearest cell tower says "Cool. I'll patch you in here until you reach the next cell." The phone company could track you to within the radius of a given cell since day one. As the technology has matured they've been able to better locate individual phones. It's a side effect of providing better coverage and more efficient service.
If you're worried about people tracking you by your cell phone, turn it off - and be aware that as soon as you come on the air to make a call, "they" will have a good idea where you are.
All this new service does is make that knowledge accessible to someone who's not monitoring cell sites inside the system. The addition of GPS in the phones makes it dramatically more accurate, but it's not really a new capability.
If you're worried about the Law tracking you down by your phone, then you should probably ditch the cell and go back to pay phones. Ditch the calling card too.
As for parents, if I give my kid a phone, and I care enough about her to wonder where she is, then tracking her with the cell (especially one I'm paying for) is my parental right. Parents are responsible for their kids. Part of that responsibility is having an idea whether they're out raising hell or really are over at their friend's studying like they said they were.
Bosses? Different matter and entirely situational. Company phone, company car, company time, the boss has the right to know whether or not I'm abusing my privilege. My phone? My time? Hell no.
Sure, they can track us with our phones. Big fat hairy deal. You don't want them to track you? Then don't carry a -transmitting- radio in your pocket!
Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
How about I leave the house and drive down the road at 91mph because I feel like it and the police track me going 91, wait for me ahead, and pull me over?
That's what I am worried about.
God, I'm not worried about that. You might as well bitch about radar detectors. (Speed Limits, while a tad bit low, are a good idea. You going at 91 anywhere but a nearly-empty highway is reckless endangerment--and in NYS, it'll [rightly] get you tossed in jail.)
Anyway...
If you're going to worry about tracking, worry about inaccuracy and corruption. Worry about psychotic ex-boyfriends hacking the system and coming after you. Worry about being politically opporessed. And after you worry, figure out an effective check on the darn thing. (A local log of who pings for your location would solve the first; standard checks against corruption would help against the second.)
Any GSM call will already alert your service provider to your location. They will have at least the cellsite you're connecting from, and likely residual data from nearby sites that your phone skimmed over before selecting one in particular.
The only difference here is that the location service is finally being made available to third parties.
I bet the parents of those two missing kids in Massachusetts would really love it if their cellphones (which are currently defaulting into voicemail) had this ability. I mean, they're probably dead, but at least they'd know.
Perhaps a cheaper device, nothing more than a panic button that uses the cellphone system, would be a good alternative. It also wouldn't ring and alert your kidnapper that you have it. It wouldn't solve every situation, but I bet it'd be pretty useful in many.
Plus, it would be another product for the cellphone companies to make and sell service on. Get one for every member of your family! Not anywhere near as expensive as a cellphone, so more people could afford them, and they'd all need service, though, like 911, the service portion should be free. These should definitely not be anonymous, though, or the prank potential would be enormous. Plus, you'd want to know who to be looking for. Perhaps have your information (name, address, photo, etc.) at the phone company when you sign up for service, when the thing goes off, all that info is instantly routed to the cops.
" It's not orwellian, it's not even close.
You've never read the mans work, obviously."
I suspect that you are just trolling, but I'll bite.
I find it odd that you would make this claim. One of the major themes in 1984 was that the government knew your location at all times, clearly there were others (i.e. continual propaganda, one minute of hate, perpetual war, thought control, revisionist history, and prohibition against individual expression) however Orwell was vigorously against the idea that the government would know where you were at all times and what you were doing. To say that creating and proliferating a technology that will allow continual and near instantaneous tracking of people isn't Orwellian is to show a deeply misguided understanding of Orwell's work. He clearly expresses this thought when Winston finds the bedroom over the shop in the Prole quarters. He goes on at great length about the freedom that Winston feels being away from the search eyes of the government.
It isn't so much that I'm against the natural advance in technology or even against the government using that technology to catch criminals. Rather I think that each technological advance gives the government greater and greater control and power in our lives. As their power expands, the transparency of the process to ordinary citizens must increase (which it is not), otherwise I believe we will ultimately end up enslaved.
Thomas Jefferson once said something to the effect that "Government is like fire, a great servant, but a fearful master." Words to ponder if you care at all about your freedom.
Doug Tolton
"The destruction of a value which is, will not bring value to that which isn't." -John Galt
Not trying to be funny here, but aren't cell phones tracking devices anyways? 80% of the time when someone calls my cell, they ask "Where are you" or "What are you doing?"
Not all that different than a "real" tracking system if you ask me.
Get
Another
Job
Dont equate added responsibility with a loss of freedom. You're free to choose the job, you're free to quit. You're responsible to perform the duties you agreed to while you work there.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I know my phone "checks in" with the network from time to time. It makes the screen on my computer go a little wobbly whenever I get a call, and it does it randomly from time to time.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
Thus it becomes the status quo and acceptable for employers to monitor what you do, who you associate with and where you go after work.
If you're not wotrking, TURN IT OFF and/or LEAVE IT HOME.
IF you're on-call, then you're working, and your employer arguably has the right to know where their phone is (and thereby, where you are.)
"So, you can be the first to have the transmitter placed on you."
No thanks. As I said, there are plenty of worrisome things about it making easier to track people. I just don't think "I might get caught speeding" is a persuasive argument.
"Accidentally hit 56mph in a 55 yesterday? Your $130 fine will be in the mail."
The example was 91. But for the sake of argument lets say the police put up photo-radar all over the place, so if you ever went even one mph over the limit (note that word: "limit") you got a hefty fine in the mail. What do you think would happen? I think people would become very aware of how fast they were driving. Many would drive a bit slower than the limit to avoid "accidents". But people would also actively lobby to have limits set to reasonable values, rather than just ignoring the limits.
"Accelerate too fast from that stop sign? Change lanes without signaling? Talk on your phone while driving?"
By themselves, none of these are illegal.
"as a lawbreaker, you deserve to get fined."
Yes. Absolutely. As someone who disagrees with a particular law, you should fight it in court or in the legislature, and get it changed. Then we can have good laws, and you won't need to argue for preventing effective enforcement, which just teaches everyone to try to get away with it.
This is just stupid.
The phone isn't hooked up to the car. IT doesn't know if you signal or not.
And unless you postulate one hell of a huge and precise infrstructure, they can't distinguish between a car driver (illegal, some places) and a car passsenger (perfectly legal) using a cellphone.
Gauging accelleration over the course of 100 feet or so is also a daunting task.
And finally, what makes you think that just because they use a technological means to sense your speed, that also means they will ticket you for 1mph over the limit? I mean, does a cop with a radar gun ticket a driver who goes 56mph??