Slashdot Mirror
Buying a New TV?
Bob Bitchen asks: "I have had the current TV set for 10+ years and really haven't put any thought into a new one. The current set is having some problems and I'm thinking of getting a new larger set or possibly a projector, with a budget of $1000. What's the best thing to get these days? HDTV ready might be nice but it's not mandatory. I don't know enough about the projector technology to feel comfortable about buying them but I might be convinced, if I hear from enough converts. Do the projectors perform as well as conventional displays? If I do go with a conventional display TV, what models are preferred and why? I am also looking for some good sites for comparing and learning more about the current state-of-the-art in televisions. I found a good site for projectors but haven't found a similar site for TVs."
OK, stay away from the "Dick Tracy"-style of wristwatch TV...they aren't good and there is no place to plug in cable.
Also, colour is now available so you don't have to see everything in black and white.
Make sure you get one with more than 13 channels...somebody told me there is more.
Remember to pay your license fee that you MUST do if you own & watch the tele.
Use rabbit ears to pick up stations a long distance away (called "DX"), but don't use real rabbits or else the blood will obscure your view of the tube.
Thanks for listening.
Thomas Farnsworth
It all depends with projectors on the amount of time you'll spend with it on - they do have a limited bulb life, and the bulbs are expensive to replace.
;-)
A conventional (tube) TV set can run for many thousands of hours without any appreciable drop in output / quality. Most projectors have a 2000 hour bulb life (or less).
There! That's my share of FUD against projectors done! Please feel free to correct me if you think differently
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
I agree with this. Get a great regular TV for $200-$300 and then get other things with the rest of the money. Use it to pay down a credit card. Get ahead on your home loan. Go on vacation. Spend some of it on a TiVo (you can't go wrong, but you can always return it if you don't like it (I know, not possible)). I'd say don't go buy a HDTV, wait a few more years for everything to settle down. And look into repairing your TV. It could give you years more service for only $50. Of course, if it's much more than $100 just get a new TV.
But definatly get a TiVo. DirecTiVos are especially great.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
While I sympathize with your economic situation, usually 17 year olds living in their parents' basement aren't supposed to have $1000 to spend on a TV. Okay, so I'm 19, and I'm about to move out, and I already own a complete home theater including DLP projector.. but that's not the rule. Just because you don't have $1000, doesn't mean you should complain someone else does. There is a remedy to your situation. If you are unemployed, take a job at the supermarket. If you have a crappy job, learn new skills in your spare time so you'll have a way to pitch yourself to a new employer. If you really are 17 and living at home, stop complaining. Otherwise, make your life better.
Anyhow, how do you know the guy hasn't already been to China? A TV will last 10 years or more. A 1 week vacation to china will last 1 week, but those intenstinal parasites you'll carry around for a lifetime. Or, you could get SARS. I bet that's why airfare's so cheap.
A solution to the problem with music today
They do a nice 30" HDTV-ready 16:9 ratio unit for a little over $1,000, I think it's the 3096 / 3097 / 3098 model numbers, but they may have changed. Cambridge Soundworks usually has one set up in their stores. If you already have a surround-sound system, get the *97 (2 tuner, more home theater tweaks than the *96, but without the built in sub-woofer, which you won't be needing).
But really, so long as you're not being dirt cheap, you can't go too far wrong with a Sony Wega.
HDTV standards are stabilized. HDTV is awesome. All stations in my area broadcast digital SDTV or better. I'd recommend an HDTV tuner card in an HTPC, with a projector. It'll be a little bit more than $1000, but the improved screen size and picture detail over a conventional TV are definitely worth it.
If you're buying a TV now, unless your room is very small, it's definitely worth going for a projector or an HDTV capable set, if it's within your budget. Generally, if you do the ceiling mount and screen yourself (which even the most well-monied individuals can enjoy doing as a refreshing change), a mid-range projector will cost less than HDTV tubes, plasmas, and RPTV's. I personally use an XGA DLP projector, and while the rainbows (it's an older DLP model; newer ones are much better) were mildly annoying at first, I'm very satisfied with the purchase.
A solution to the problem with music today
I wouldn't reccomend getting a projection TV if you are planning on hooking up a newer gaming console such as a PS2 or Xbox, they will most likely damage it. (Look for warnings in your console's manual.)
Unless you have to carry it up stairs. Sony makes their TVs out of solid depleted Uranium! Make sure you have a dolly!
Story for you (like you care!) ;-)
;-)
;-)
My current Sony weighs 98lbs. Sounds like nothing. I mean, I can quite comfortably hump a 98lb girl all night
BUT.....when I bought my Sony, I didn't take the dealer up on the free delivery....we removed it from the box and I hauled it by myself into the car....and out when home...across the drive...and up the stairs. FUCK ME! It was a long haul. Sony make TVs that are not move-friendly. 98lbs doesn't sound much until you have to do what I did and realize that it has no FREAKIN' HANDLES!
-psy
More than half of the Sony devices I've had have been complete crap. But the other half have been pretty darn good. Very strange.
First of all, Audio Review can be a useful site for all kinds of home theatre gear. They don't have a lot of the latest models, but it can give you a good idea of the best brands etc.
Second of all, there's a whole bunch of terminology you may want to become familiar with. First off, connections. You want component video inputs. For that price, you shouldn't have a problem getting a set with component video. It's seperates the signal into more discrete parts reducing interference greatly.
100Hz is really nice. It gives you a rock solid picture, that you can stare at for hours. It's not essential but for the price you're looking at, you can probably get a nice one.
Progressive scan means it draws the entire frame, every frame. Normal television is interlaced - it draws the odd lines one frame, and even frames the next. These translate into the "p" and "i" you see at the end of picture modes. What are picture modes I hear you cry?
Standard American broadcasts use NTSC (as does Japan). That has 480 lines of displayed resolution. So 480i is what you're used to seeing. Progessive scan output (from some DVD players and digital set-top boxes, and interpolated on some TVs from regular transmission), is called 480p. Remember, 'p' is better than 'i'.
Next up is PAL (used in Australia and UK). PAL is 576 lines. So if you're in PAL territory, try and get a TV that does 576p.
If you're in NTSC territory, 576p probably isn't that important. Similarly 480p isn't much used to the PAL folk.
Next up are the High-definition modes. There are two different HDTV modes: 720p and 1080i. It's arguable which one is better, though I'd favour 720p. Ideally, if you're going for HDTV, get a set that supports both. Different places around the world don't necessarily support both resolutions either - check for your area. The other thing worth knowing is that the XBox is the only console with HDTV output. Not that many support 720p though and a even less supporting 1080i. At around the $1000 mark, I think you're probably looking at a standard (CRT) television. You probably won't get HDTV for that price, but you probably will get a nice 100Hz, progressive-scan capable display. And go the widescreen. I'm regretting making my last TV a 4:3 (tech-talk for standard ratio), now that I have digital television. Lastly, if you're a bit of a junky when it comes to these things, get as many inputs as you can. Unless you're going to get an AV receiver (which typically only swap 2 sets of component video), you'll want to be able to plug in lots of stuff.
Refuse to make a statement in your sig!
The research I've been doing is in the $4000 range and I've decided on DLP.
There is no "burn-in" and the consoles are significantly thinner (not plasma thin, but thinner than traditional rear projection units.) The picture is pretty awesome at all angles and the technology is really cool.
Info on DLP concept.
A vendor (Pricey, but informative.)
Rumors are around that sub-$1000 DLP systems will be out by the end of the year.
Do you just watch regular broadcast TV? Are there enough HDTV broadcasts in your area that you're interested in to even bother with an HDTV set? Do you watch a lot of DVDs? The answers to these questions will help you narrow down your list.
If you watch a lot of DVDs, you'll probably want a widescreen set. That'll shoot up the price.
If you want to watch a lot of HDTV broadcasts, same thing, but with a further question: what HDTV spec (there are several) are the broadcasters in your area broadcasting in? Broadcasters are kind of split on whether to broadcast in 720p or 1080i. I'd rather watch 720p over 1080i, but too many people don't understand the difference between progressive and interlaced, and just assume the higher number means it's better. Feh.
How big a screen are you thinking about? There's a world of difference in price between a really good 27" set and a 36" flat-tube screen. Even between a 32" and a 36" can be a big price difference, depending on other features.
What I find annoying is that noone seems to be making intermediate TVs. I want a widescreen flat-tube 36" TV that goes up to 480p. No speakers. PIP (picture in picture) would be nice, too. But the thing is, there seems to be a plateau at a regular NTSC TV, and then it steps up to HDTV specs, with the attendant price increase. I just want to watch good DTV broadcasts and DVDs in full 480p mode (that's the max that DVDs can do - they don't even match low-end HDTV specs, sad to say). And what's with all the high-end tv with speakers? People who buy high-end TVs don't use the crappy built-in speakers - they're hooked up to a decent sound system.
TV manufacturers are downright _weird_ about some things.
If he'd rather have a TV than a trip to Timbuktu, then how is that being wasteful? Maybe we should analyze all of your purchases to see if you're buying things that we think are wasteful.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
- Don't buy it over the Internet. If you do and it dies, you'll waste months fighting with the support people for TiVo and for whatever label you bought it under. Instead, go to a local merchant and make sure there's an understanding that you can get a replacement unit right away if the first one dies.
- Get an extended warrantee. I usually consider this a ripoff (if your gadget is reliable, an EW is a bad value, and if it isn't, why are you buying it?), but for a Tivo this actually makes sense.
Also, note that a Tivo's price doesn't include a subscription, even though the device is pretty useless without one. A lifetime subscription is a better value (it costs less than 2 years of the monthly subscription) but there *are* those hardware issues...If you're lucky, nothing will go wrong and your enjoyment of TV will go up drastically. (Tivos aren't just convenient, they're wonderful for digging up shows you always meant to watch, or would want to watch if you'd ever heard of them.) If you're not lucky, the damn thing will go psychotic. Which is survivable, if you're prepared for it.
Ok, I have spent some time doing this recently at home. Spent a heap of money but I am sure my experiance will be good for your more limited budget.
If you are going to go for a projector make sure the room is DARK. And I mean REAL DARK, like only watch movies at night or with blackout curtains. This may not be an issue if you have a tv room specific for watching tv, but it can be a pain normallly.
Be warned that there are two kinds of projectors floating around, Data projectors and Home Theater projectors. You definately want the second kind. Data projecters often have specs that look amazing (high res, very bright etc) but the colour quality SUCKS. They ghost lots on fast movement and are definately not something to watch tv or movies on.
The other thing to consider is that for $1000 you are not going to get a really amazing projector, I think you will be dissapointed by the brightness and quality of the picture. Projectors really improve as you throw money at them.
Limited bulb life of projectors is an issue too. It is many hundreds to replace a burned bulb and they typically last 2000 hours.
Ok, so after all that I think you should look for a nice tube tv. Make sure it has the following things:
* Widescreen format (16:9). I know lots of TV is not in widescreen now but it will be in future and most DVD's are. You don't want to be pissed off watching everything in a letterbox. Now is NOT the time to buy an old style 4:3 tv.
* component video input. Seperates the colours into different cables, greatly improves the picture quality and is essential when connecting a good dvd player.
* 100Hz. Faster refresh rate, the picture looks much sharper and clearer, easier on the eyes.
European TV's normally have all the above features, but they often are more than $1000. Look for Metz, Loewe and Grundig.
Hope that helps!
Your best bet is to do some real research rather than relying upon the anecdotal experiences of Slashdot readers and friends.
Consumer Reports tends to review televisions every few months. Their most recent comprehensive review (27-36 inches, HD-ready, and projection) was in the March 2003 issue. Perhaps your local library has a copy? They also have most of their content online at www.consumerreports.org for a $4.95 monthly subscription ($24 per year).
If you're considering spending $1000, it's worth spending $5 on research.
" I can quite comfortably hump a 98lb girl all night ;-)"
;)
Gravity's not exactly a constant in dream land, buddy.
- NextVision N6
by Viewsonic
-
Sony SXGA LCD monitor
-
Sony stereo system
-
video/audio cables
The NextVision N6 will convert any HDTV or SDTV signal into an RGB video signal and an audio signal that can be connected to a nice LCD monitor and a high-quality stereo, respectively. Furthermore, the NextVision N6 has a built-in SDTV tuner, so you can immediately start watching standard NTSC television programs.While you enjoy your time shopping for this equipment, please remember that when you buy products made in a particular country, you indirectly support the value system of that country. So, please avoid products that are made in China (which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong). At Amnesty International and Tibet Online, you can find plenty of reasons to avoid products "Made in China" (which includes "Made in Taiwan" and "Made in Hong Kong").
The ATSC standard may be stabilized but the receivers are still a work in progress. Most of them have problems with sensitivity, multipath and software bugs. Receiver designs are still in flux. The biggest problem is how to cope with dynamic multipath. There are locations that receive strong ATSC signals where no commercially available receiver can successfully decode the signal.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I have spent a lot of time on this and ended up compromising and buying two TVs. Most made for TV material is 4:3 and shot for a small screen. If you watch that material on a big screen it is really going to look bad as you stare up news reader's noses and the likes. A small set (21-25") is ideal for that sort of casual watching material. It is still worth getting a good set though but HDTV ready is not necessary. You will need to use a calibration DVD (eg Video Essentials) to pick a set that will actually give you good flesh tones etc. I bought a 21" Sony, got into the factory settings menu and reset it to give a more natural picture. Sony (as do many others) set the colour temp far too high so you end up with a very blue picture which might look impressive but is rather unrealistic. With that I am all set for watching standard definition material.
:-)
:-D
For movies I bought a single chip DLP projector (InFocus X1) which is the best bang for the buck at the moment. Fully multistandard, calibrates wonderully and is very bright and clear. The video scaler and deinterlacer are excellent too extracting 24fps from NTSC LDs with 3:2 pulldown eliminating judder. Resolution of the DLP is only 800x600 but that is ample for all current DVDs and even in 16:9 mode where it compresses the picture down vertically it still looks clear. A true 16:9 projector would have a little more resolution but brightness and colour correctness make up for this small deficiency, and cost (about $1500). Oh, and it will accept HDTV signals although it downconverts. Once HD is really cooking this projector will be ready to retire anyway so not to worry.
Lessons to live by:
Buy Video Essentials, practice with it until you can get a really nice picture, try several sets, it takes time to get used to it but you will learn which TVs can be calibrated and which can't.
Don't be swayed by the brightest punchiest picture in the shop. Quite likely a TV with that default setting is running a very high colour temp and also the tube is liable to burn. A calibrated picture looks dark and dull at first but once you get used to it you will never go back. Room lighting is also important, TVs are not designed to be used in brightly lit rooms, control the light, especially that shining on the screen.
Avoid LCD TVs like the plague, the scalers in them are very poor and they have poor contrast and black level, plus they cost a fortune for what is really a very small and muddy picture. They are a very poor substitute for plasma screens.
Plasma TVs are for people who like to show off. Very few produce an acceptable picture, and those that do cost a lot. For the money you would spend on one of them you can have a nice little direct view and a huge projection system. My set up currently has a 100" screen but I want something bigger. It cost less than half the price of a decent plasma screen and the picture is 3x bigger.
LCD projectors are better than they used to be but DLP is much better and about the same money. The InFocus X1 can be had for less than $1500 which is amazing value, particularly as it has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer.
For CRTs, make sure that the picture is stable when there is a strong flashing image (Video Essentials includes the necessary tests and instructions). Nothing worse than a TV where the picture bends and pulses when Arnie blows s**t up
Back projection CRTs are OK but very bulky, imagine what your room will be like when the thing is not turned on. It will be like sharing a room with the monolith out of 2001 and you're back to staring up people's noses. Once all TV is shot assuming large screens as movies are then this won't be a problem. As I said, my solution is to have a small set for small screen stuff and a big screen for big screen movies. Cost is more than your budget but you might be able to find ex-demo or secondhand projectors on E-bay and it is well worth it.
Of course, you could just avoid all this and buy the first set that you like the look of, but that wouldn't be the slashdot way now would it?
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
The first thing I thought when reading the OP was "Don't buy Philips, don't buy Sony". And of course the first post recommends a Sony. I don't have any first hand experience of Sonys because I avoid buying them due to the high number of people complaining about their poor quality. I think their TVs may be a little better than the usual products, but I still avoid them. Based on the Sonys I've seen on display in shops I also dislike their picture quality. Although the source signal usually stinks and the settings are probably way off, it's still an indication of quality. Go check out some TVs in a few stores before you buy anything. bring your own DVD and have them hook it up so you know what it's supposed to look like.
Instead I would recommend a Panasonic. Mine is almost 10 years old but has not never shown any signs of old age and the image quality is still excellent. It also does both NTSC and PAL which is great for overseas DVDs. The only downside is that it's only got 2 scart connectors and only one of them handles RGB. Make sure you have enough connectors on the device you buy.
Before buying anything play around with the remote in the store. This is the UI of the TV and you should be able to use it comfortably with one hand without looking at it. I've seen some astonishingly assinine remote control desings. This is one of the reasons that I will never buy anything made by Philips. The other is that their VCRs are legendary for breaking down. Usually very soon after the warranty expires.
This post is free (as in cheese in a mousetrap).
I bought a new HD projection TV a little while back, here are the things I realized once it was here:
Depending on the size you get, make sure that the room you plan on putting it in is big enough. If there isn't enough space between your primary viewing location and the tv, you're going to be overwhelmed. Mine is 50", my living room is ~12' wide. I ended up having to rearrange everything in my living room so that the tv was against one wall and the couch against the opposite wall. I could still use a few extra feet.
Make sure you can block most of the sunlight coming into the room that you can put it in. My tv will auto adjust the picture based upon the ambient light in the room. Even still, the image looks the best when the room is fairly dark.
A projection tv can cause problems depending on your viewing habits. If there are typically one or two people watching the tv from directly in front of it, you're fine. If you typically have friends over, you may have trouble with your viewing angle, depending on how the furniture is set up.
Widescreen HD projection screens are still projection. That means they still have some problems with burn in. Normal signals will appear with a black band on either side of the image. Apparently, these black bands can burn into the screen. This means you have to do some type of morphing of the image to make it full screen. This degrades the image of most broadcast stations. The tradeoff is natively formatted widescreen. However, many DVD's don't have the same ratio as the TV. This means you will still have bands, albeit smaller ones, on the top and bottom.
Check your area for HD offerings via digital cable. It is far cheaper to pay ~$10 extra on your cable bill a month than buying an expensive over the air tuner. My cable company offers a few channels (about 6), but there are more coming online all the time.
Also, some regular broadcast stations end up looking worse on my 50" HD than my 27" normal tube. This depends on the resolution of the cameras and the broadcast. Any deficiencies become exaggerated. Last year's Super Bowl was hyped that it would be done in all HD. For the most part, everything looked fine. Fine until they switched to their low-res on the field cameras. The images were terrible and almost unwatchable.
Make sure you do your research before buying. Research brands and models and look for any reports of problems with the ones you are considering. I did this before buying mine as was shocked at the number and severity of things being reported. The model I ended up buying had no negative reports, and I've had no problems, although your mileage may vary.
Hope this is useful to someone...
HDTV is amazing, but you obviously have to have enough HD programming/signal to justify its cost.
Pre-9/11, we were able to receive Over-the-air broadcast of local network station from the WTC. After those broadcast facilities were destroyed Local HD dropped off. You can get several channels from Satellite: DirecTV offers HBO, Showtime, Discovery, HDNet, ESPN. Cable providers have varied service. We now have TWCNYC, which carries HBO, Showtime, PBS plus CBS, NBC, ABC.
In anycase, with a $1,000 budget HDTV is probably out of your range. I know a lot of people who have raved about their Sony WEGA's. I've also had pretty good luck with Samsungs. LCD's (Sharp Acquos) are nice, but too expensive as well (unless you want a little tv for the kitchen).
Check to make sure that you're in an area with decent HD coverage.
This is pretty much any major metropolitan area except for NYC (Due to 9/11 knocking out all but one of the HD transmitters there.)
If you have a signal, HD is well worth it. Note: Even without an HD signal, an "HD-ready" TV with composite inputs can make for an AMAZING PC monitor for gaming, etc. In my case, I don't have an actual HDTV, I just feed my 18" LCD on my desktop using an HDTV tuner card in my PC. Sadly, I live in the NYC area which means only CBS and Fox for the time being.
The picture quality is worth it, even if you only use a PCI HDTV card and a good PC monitor. If you like CSI, think SERIOUSLY about getting HD, you don't know what you're missing out on until you've watched CSI in 1080i HD.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
First off, if you want a good site for general home theater stuff, check out AVS Forums. You may end up wanting to spend more than your budget though :)
That said, I'd highly recommend you get a widescreen HDTV-compatible set. If you want to keep your TV around for as long (or longer) as your last set, you'll regret not getting HDTV. No, the switchover isn't going to happen in 2006. But it will happen, and you can receive HDTV in most areas now. Even without HD reception you'll get better DVD viewing, a huge computer monitor (if you want), and can get better visual quality out of most consoles.
Your choices are going to be rather limited at $1000, and I can't recommend any specific ones (I just bought a new TV set... but for considerably more than $1k... the Samsung HLN467W - 46" DLP widescreen), but there are some available. Do check out the menus. Check to see if it has discrete codes available, otherwise you'll want to kill yourself if you get a programmable remote (or, more likely, your SO will want to kill you because they can't operate the damn system). Check what inputs it has -- at this price point about the most you can hope for is one or two component inputs on the high end. You almost certainly won't get a VGA or DVI input.
If you don't go HD, then don't bother buying a TV bigger than about 32" -- which will be far, far below your budget. Big screen non-HD is just a waste of money.
The submitter asked about a low-cost, high-quality replacement for a faulty 10-year old TV. You responded by calling him, in so many words, a materialistic, amoral, intellectually bankrupt pig.
I double-dog dare you to try that in the real world. Go to your nearest Best Buy, walk up to the first customer you see in the TV section, and without solicitation, repeat everything you said here. Be sure to report back to us if you manage to make it out of the store without somebody turning it into a punchup.
A bit of advice for you, kid. Before you hit Submit, ask yourself this question: How would this person react if I said this to their face? If you don't have the balls to say it in the real world, you probably shouldn't post it here.
This sig intentionally left blank.