Posted by
Hemos
on from the lets'-get-'em-together dept.
CainX writes "A comparison of five power supply units was posted recently. Anandtech has done a more complete review and examined 18 of the newest models in the plus 300 watt range." Power supplies tend to be one of those forgotten, but ever so important parts of machine construction.
How much power is drawn from the wall?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
OK I'm no power supply geek, or electrician type either, but how much power is typically drawn from the wall in a pretty basic machine with a 400w power supply? A friend of mine is constantly being taken offline by his parents because they only let him use the computer for 2 hours a day due to power usage, and they're going on the wattage of the PSU in the machine he built. Personally. I think his machine (I think it's an 1800+ with one 7200RPM drive and a cd burner) would barely be using a third of that power.
The results of the memory tests are amasing. The MTBF is about an hour on some of the power supplys. I'm not sure If I understand the setup but that is appauling. I expect a MTBF of about 100+ years not an hour.
Other types of power supplies?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I would like to see a review of all of the tiny power supplies out there. Espically all of the P4 compliant ones. I think alot of PCs will soon not look like PCs at all and they will still need power.
Not quite as amusing as dansdata.com, but...
by
Junior+J.+Junior+III
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I really liked Anandtech's article. It actually had a lot of information and was fairly thorough -- measuring performance in a variety of ways, including not just output wattages but also noise levels, heat buildup, and cost.
A bit more explaining the basics of what each different voltage rail is for and why x-level of performance is important would have been helpful. Along with some more basic stats, such as how long the power cables actually are -- surely people still build full-tower PCs, don't they?
-- You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
External supplies
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
All power supplies that I know of (not that much by the way) and all supplies tested are internal supplies. Since the powersupply is a major contributer to the internal heat of the box, and noise generation, wouldn't it make sence to make the power-supply external. It will decrease the temperature of the box, and by having it external you can place it at such a location where its noise is of least annoyance. You can even make them bigger, having larger (= less noisy) fans, and you could share them between boxes. What do you think?
Where's the EE beef?
by
AragornCG
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Great, there are more power supplies, but where are the oscilloscopes? Where is the detailed methodology for testing the cleanliness of the resultant power? They used some "stuff we found in our local university basement" to satisfy "you EE types". Oh, great. LIKE WHAT?
I'll take a smaller review with decent scientific methodologies, thank you very much. There's more to stability of a power supply than "interference testing" which reports an integer number of errors that could be caused by anything... What about the thermal testing... where was it measured? by what, the onboard mainboard thermistor, which is notably unreliable? Which "industry standard Chenming case" was it?
I really, really, really wish that these hardware sites would hire people with a decent understanding of the discipline of science - let alone engineering! - to write reviews. I could make MUCH more informed decisions.
-Ben
When we remember about power supplies...
by
xyvimur
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
"Power supplies tend to be one of those forgotten, but ever so important parts of machine construction..."
Here you can see why you should pay more attention when buying supply...
Card power requirements? Warning lights?
by
dpbsmith
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
For as long as there have been micros, we have played the game of "by guess and by gosh."
Why doesn't every card and component in a system have a clearly marked indication of its power requirement?
And why don't power supplies issue unmistakable warnings when the system draws more power than the supply can reliably provide?
Every fuse and circuit breaker in a house has the amperage clearly marked on it, and so does every appliance.
Why can't the insides of our computers come up to the same standards as our toasters and washing machines? This isn't rocket science, this is simple arithmetic.
Re:Altogether now...
by
_|()|\|
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
On my machine the CPU fan drowns out the noise of any PSU
The power supply fan has always been louder than the CPU fan in my computers.
I had a generic 300 W PSU that I thought was too loud.
I replaced it with a PC Power & Cooling "Silencer" that was just as loud.
I later got an "ultra-quiet" QTechnology PSU from Quiet PC.
Little, if any, improvement.
Noise is important to some people, and it appears to be a difficult problem to solve.
Not too long ago, 300 W PSUs were considered extravagant, but it's easy to overtax one with a few disks, especially if the PSU isn't up to spec.
One of my computers rebooted sporadically, until I replaced the PSU.
Re:Altogether now...
by
Zathrus
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
On my machine the CPU fan drowns out the noise of any PSU
I'm sorry... maybe you should look into quieter CPU fans in the future? Personally, the Zalman flower fans look very attractive to me... not in a visual sense, but an auditory one.
They make no difference to performance
They certainly do. Inadequate power supplies can cause system lockups and shorten lifespan of components due to improper voltage regulation... sure, that card can run with the 3.3V line at 3.6V, but you think that's not going to have some effects down the line?
Put enough components in a system and you'll find out fast how much PSUs matter. Stick in 4 or 5 HDs and your system may not even power up -- even with a 400W PSU. Why? Because that "400W" PSU only has a 10A 12V line, which is utterly inadequate to spin up more than one drive along with a modern P4 or Athlon. Realistically it shouldn't even be used then, because you're well over 80% draw -- at which point voltage irregularities and noise concerns become a bigger problem. That system lockup? Yeah... it was caused by your CPU going wacky. Which was caused by the power supply introducing so much noise that the motherboard voltage regulators couldn't filter it out and fed the CPU bad power.
You're talking about another $30 to get a decent PSU... it's not going to break the bank.
Quality power can not be stressed enough...
by
Awptimus+Prime
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I used to buy whatever 450 watt CompUsa model I could get for $19.00. That was a big mistake.
After about 6 months use, I had one make a popping sound, then erupt in smoke. All I had in the box was dual 700 cpus, 6 scsi drives, 2 ide drives, cdrw, GF3, and a bunch of neon lights. During that time, the system would freeze up a lot, usually while compiling.
Basically 450 watts doesn't mean as much as the quality of components and how cloesly the manufacturer was willing to run them to the point of breakage.
I swapped out my burnt 450 watt for a Antec cool blue running at around 400 watts and my system is quieter and never locks up anymore.
When reading wattages of cheap PSU's remind yourself of audio equipment. Like when a brand like Sparkomatic or Jensen promises 1000 watts out of an amp only for it to sound like shiat and blow speakers. Meanwhile, a Bose amp of 75 watts would be generating more power overall and not be tearing your speakers up. The same game is played with PSU promises. They, the generic cheapies, never planned on anyone using all 450 watts of their equipment. These big number, low performance parts are meant for a consumer with a very basic system seeking comfort big specs.
I guess it reinforces 'You get what you pay for'.
Re:Forgotten Power Supplies...
by
wukie
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
When I built my PC, the power supply was the first thing I considered.
I was looking at building a Dual Athlon system on a Tyan motherboard with a few hard drives.
Essentially to cut a long story short, this combination requires a VERY HIGH power rating on the 5 volt rail. Some 550W power supply don't cut it, Enermax units below 400W were uncertain, while Antec's 350W or better are fine.
I went for an Antec 430W and their server case. 8 fans all attached to the "special" fan rail which adjusts their speed according to conditions keeps the computer humming.
Corsair ECC memory, HD's with 3 year warranty help with stability aswell.
Bottom line: Win2k - never had a BSOD (Blue Screen).Linux is obviously rock steady aswell.
I would have considered an Asus or Gigabyte motherboard. Kingston, Micron or Infineon RAM. Chieftec or Thermaltake case. BUT the power supply had to a very good one... i.e. ANTEC!
Yes but most computers do not have ECC nor parity on their memory. ECC might protect you and parity will simply allow you to crash out safely. Unless it was dont care memory this error would cause a failure of some form. I have run memory tests with quite dodgey memory, power supplies, fans etc. over periods of many hours and these errors do normaly not occur. Unless you went out to buy eec memory for your computer because you are scared these sort of error might occur over the lifetime of your machine then you are not protected from them. I think the case is you dont know what youre talking about. The and coming along and looking like a fool stating that the moderators are stupid for also being cauteous of the results presented doesnt help. You seem to be very angry that a public forum is composed of people expressing their "wrong" opinions but at the same time you are happy to troll away on them. You you dont agree then dont read it. Unless you spent several hours working out what "amasing" means then maybe you should lay of the coffee.
Slashdot Mirror
OK I'm no power supply geek, or electrician type either, but how much power is typically drawn from the wall in a pretty basic machine with a 400w power supply? A friend of mine is constantly being taken offline by his parents because they only let him use the computer for 2 hours a day due to power usage, and they're going on the wattage of the PSU in the machine he built. Personally. I think his machine (I think it's an 1800+ with one 7200RPM drive and a cd burner) would barely be using a third of that power.
The results of the memory tests are amasing. The MTBF is about an hour on some of the power supplys. I'm not sure If I understand the setup but that is appauling. I expect a MTBF of about 100+ years not an hour.
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
I would like to see a review of all of the tiny power supplies out there. Espically all of the P4 compliant ones. I think alot of PCs will soon not look like PCs at all and they will still need power.
I really liked Anandtech's article. It actually had a lot of information and was fairly thorough -- measuring performance in a variety of ways, including not just output wattages but also noise levels, heat buildup, and cost.
A bit more explaining the basics of what each different voltage rail is for and why x-level of performance is important would have been helpful. Along with some more basic stats, such as how long the power cables actually are -- surely people still build full-tower PCs, don't they?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
All power supplies that I know of (not that much by the way) and all supplies tested are internal supplies. Since the powersupply is a major contributer to the internal heat of the box, and noise generation, wouldn't it make sence to make the power-supply external. It will decrease the temperature of the box, and by having it external you can place it at such a location where its noise is of least annoyance. You can even make them bigger, having larger (= less noisy) fans, and you could share them between boxes. What do you think?
Great, there are more power supplies, but where are the oscilloscopes? Where is the detailed methodology for testing the cleanliness of the resultant power? They used some "stuff we found in our local university basement" to satisfy "you EE types". Oh, great. LIKE WHAT?
I'll take a smaller review with decent scientific methodologies, thank you very much. There's more to stability of a power supply than "interference testing" which reports an integer number of errors that could be caused by anything... What about the thermal testing... where was it measured? by what, the onboard mainboard thermistor, which is notably unreliable? Which "industry standard Chenming case" was it?
I really, really, really wish that these hardware sites would hire people with a decent understanding of the discipline of science - let alone engineering! - to write reviews. I could make MUCH more informed decisions.
-Ben
"Power supplies tend to be one of those forgotten, but ever so important parts of machine construction..."
Here you can see why you should pay more attention when buying supply...
For as long as there have been micros, we have played the game of "by guess and by gosh."
Why doesn't every card and component in a system have a clearly marked indication of its power requirement?
And why don't power supplies issue unmistakable warnings when the system draws more power than the supply can reliably provide?
Every fuse and circuit breaker in a house has the amperage clearly marked on it, and so does every appliance.
Why can't the insides of our computers come up to the same standards as our toasters and washing machines? This isn't rocket science, this is simple arithmetic.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
The power supply fan has always been louder than the CPU fan in my computers. I had a generic 300 W PSU that I thought was too loud. I replaced it with a PC Power & Cooling "Silencer" that was just as loud. I later got an "ultra-quiet" QTechnology PSU from Quiet PC. Little, if any, improvement. Noise is important to some people, and it appears to be a difficult problem to solve.
Not too long ago, 300 W PSUs were considered extravagant, but it's easy to overtax one with a few disks, especially if the PSU isn't up to spec. One of my computers rebooted sporadically, until I replaced the PSU.
On my machine the CPU fan drowns out the noise of any PSU
I'm sorry... maybe you should look into quieter CPU fans in the future? Personally, the Zalman flower fans look very attractive to me... not in a visual sense, but an auditory one.
They make no difference to performance
They certainly do. Inadequate power supplies can cause system lockups and shorten lifespan of components due to improper voltage regulation... sure, that card can run with the 3.3V line at 3.6V, but you think that's not going to have some effects down the line?
Put enough components in a system and you'll find out fast how much PSUs matter. Stick in 4 or 5 HDs and your system may not even power up -- even with a 400W PSU. Why? Because that "400W" PSU only has a 10A 12V line, which is utterly inadequate to spin up more than one drive along with a modern P4 or Athlon. Realistically it shouldn't even be used then, because you're well over 80% draw -- at which point voltage irregularities and noise concerns become a bigger problem. That system lockup? Yeah... it was caused by your CPU going wacky. Which was caused by the power supply introducing so much noise that the motherboard voltage regulators couldn't filter it out and fed the CPU bad power.
You're talking about another $30 to get a decent PSU... it's not going to break the bank.
I used to buy whatever 450 watt CompUsa model I could get for $19.00. That was a big mistake.
After about 6 months use, I had one make a popping sound, then erupt in smoke. All I had in the box was dual 700 cpus, 6 scsi drives, 2 ide drives, cdrw, GF3, and a bunch of neon lights. During that time, the system would freeze up a lot, usually while compiling.
Basically 450 watts doesn't mean as much as the quality of components and how cloesly the manufacturer was willing to run them to the point of breakage.
I swapped out my burnt 450 watt for a Antec cool blue running at around 400 watts and my system is quieter and never locks up anymore.
When reading wattages of cheap PSU's remind yourself of audio equipment. Like when a brand like Sparkomatic or Jensen promises 1000 watts out of an amp only for it to sound like shiat and blow speakers. Meanwhile, a Bose amp of 75 watts would be generating more power overall and not be tearing your speakers up. The same game is played with PSU promises. They, the generic cheapies, never planned on anyone using all 450 watts of their equipment. These big number, low performance parts are meant for a consumer with a very basic system seeking comfort big specs.
I guess it reinforces 'You get what you pay for'.
When I built my PC, the power supply was the first thing I considered.
... i.e. ANTEC!
I was looking at building a Dual Athlon system on a Tyan motherboard with a few hard drives.
Essentially to cut a long story short, this combination requires a VERY HIGH power rating on the 5 volt rail. Some 550W power supply don't cut it, Enermax units below 400W were uncertain, while Antec's 350W or better are fine.
I went for an Antec 430W and their server case. 8 fans all attached to the "special" fan rail which adjusts their speed according to conditions keeps the computer humming.
Corsair ECC memory, HD's with 3 year warranty help with stability aswell.
Bottom line: Win2k - never had a BSOD (Blue Screen).Linux is obviously rock steady aswell.
I would have considered an Asus or Gigabyte motherboard. Kingston, Micron or Infineon RAM. Chieftec or Thermaltake case. BUT the power supply had to a very good one
Yes but most computers do not have ECC nor parity on their memory.
ECC might protect you and parity will simply allow you to crash out safely.
Unless it was dont care memory this error would cause a failure of some form.
I have run memory tests with quite dodgey memory, power supplies, fans etc. over periods of many hours and these errors do normaly not occur.
Unless you went out to buy eec memory for your computer because you are scared these sort of error might occur over the lifetime of your machine then you are not protected from them.
I think the case is you dont know what youre talking about. The and coming along and looking like a fool stating that the moderators are stupid for also being cauteous of the results presented doesnt help. You seem to be very angry that a public forum is composed of people expressing their "wrong" opinions but at the same time you are happy to troll away on them. You you dont agree then dont read it. Unless you spent several hours working out what "amasing" means then maybe you should lay of the coffee.
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego