I'm trolling for pointing out the fact that everybody loses by using such 'tactics' when shopping?
Just about everything you say enforces why it is important to reward good companies for good products instead of seeking to cause losses for ones you dislike.
Also, you should know better after a decade in the repair industry than to buy a retail SKU notebook. Business class is the only way to go due to the better warranties and they aren't slapping this week's popular GPU on any old board to up the specs without concern for TDP.
I stick with Lenovo and HP. Board failure? A guy shows up to my house or office in 48 hours and replaces it on the spot at no cost. Screen looks wonky? The guy shows up and replaces it. There is no waiting months for whatever. Invest that energy you use for scamming return policies into better shopping practices and you won't have much to be bitter about. Trust me.
Not to mention is horrific social skills if he can't float through a place like Best Buy without a major debate with a sales person.
If someone is saying something stupid in a store, it is easy enough just to ignore them and go about your business. I think a lot of this thread is hyperbole or people insecure about their own position in life and need to smash the egos of people earning $6/hr working at a crappy retailer.
I do purchase from Newegg, but I don't blindly trust their pricing scheme. They marked up SSDs massively when distribution channels were backordered. I was able to pick up a G2 160GB Intel drive for $440 when Newegg was taking orders for the same model for over $600.
They often over price accessories. Most recent one I've noticed is that NIA controller (some brain reading device) being like $120 after an 'instant rebate' but the same thing is sitting on the shelf at a local Microcenter store for $83. The same thing goes for their shipping rates often being flat on each product instead of by total weight of the purchase, so you end up paying way more for shipping than you ever would if you tried sending the same amount of stuff yourself.
Other things, such as CPUs and DIMMs, they do very well with and some of the shell shocker deals are pretty good. But, I would recommend looking around a bit before just blindly grabbing something from a retailer due to 'trust'.
As will HP or Lenovo. Any Smart Buy or Top Seller package will always come with Microsoft media and all the crapware on a seperate DVD so you can easily install just a copy of XP, Vista or Win7 (depending on which your SKU was assigned to) without any other software.
The only real snag with the 'big boys' business line is making sure you get 32 and 64 bit media up front. For some reason the support behind major brand systems often think Windows 7 licensing is tied to the bit level, which it is not.
Sorry, I work in distribution channels and Best Buy doesn't negociate based on what software is installed. If you get a part number KFA3544#ABA (made up part number) system at Best Buy, it will come with the exact same software image as the same part number from CompUSA, Newegg, or any other channel.
True, most companies would rather sell accessories as opposed to a computer system. Standard retail markup on just about anything we buy in a Walmart, Target, etc is 33% markup over distribution. The markup on a retail bought PC? Maybe 4-5% due to the endless competition and price wars over PCs. It is just a fact of life. Even most non-technical old people I know do know better than to spend a lot of money on cables, since companies like Monster Cables has drawn enough attention to anything cable-related for many years now. I really look at the big-box stores as "where to buy a cable/PSU/keyboard in an absolute emergency if working on a project due Monday and the system has an issue Saturday evening at 8PM".
I do call BS on the entire article. If these guys were so bright as to unveil a scam at BB, they should have been able to at least figure out what changed on the system. Incompetence all around, including TFA. They can't figure out why a machine is 1/3 slower when they get it back? Time to start writing articles on politics and leave IT alone.
Well, the cables you find online will cost $2 but charge $6.50 to ship it to you in most cases. Anyone walking into a retail store gloating about how much better prices are on some website are usually doing nothing but annoying the poor $6/hr lady at the cash register who was told by management to ask customers if they want a warranty with all purchases.
Mind you, I am not sure why the guy behind you would walk out. It seems like anyone who has ever shopped at Best Buy or CompUSA knows after the first visit they will ask if you want a warranty with a $5 mouse, or whatever. It's much like going to McDonalds and trying to make a scene when they ask if you would like fries with your burger, or to upsize your meal.
Kudos, though. You seem like the type who is just out to annoy people making minimum wage and contribute to their disdain for customers and hate their jobs even more. If you would like to be productive, perhaps write the district manager of these stores and let them know how annoying you find suggestive selling. It probably won't get anywhere, but nor will ruining a cashier's day.
That way we can make sure to encourage the retail chains in the US to remain as shitty as possible?
I don't shop at Best Buy, but I disagree with the practice of wasting other people's time and money, which is what this is. It is much wiser to go to Microcenter and get a $10 SATA or IDE enclosure and just keep your old drive in it as a spare or to give to a friend who needs one. All my old 100-120GB drives from the turn of the millenium are happily housed in such units and come in handy when someone needs temp storage or truck around some data.
Doing it this way, the retail establishment has no reason to jack up prices further, keeps employees employed, and Startech or whoever made the enclosure got a sale for a manufacturing a decent enough product.
There is a thousand ways to royally screw over companies using warranty and return policies, they don't take much thought to discover and abuse, but I don't think doing so is the path to any form of enlightenment.
Yes, but do you want to be running around supporting a 1,200 system deployment of the shittiest model Dell with an assortment of different motherboards, drives, lots of fans, and questionable build quality or 1,200 Wyse terminals that are identical in every fashion with no moving parts to fail?
Sure the prices get on up there for a good thin client, but it scales similar to going from GMA video to a Matrox or ATI dual head video card when comparing the nicer models to the most basic ones.
I guess if your IT people work for free, the Dell would be a better choice. Really, anyone wanting to put white-box or shitbox solutions in place of a proven thin client should not be in the position to make such decisions.
Remember when Fark and Facebook people beat out Slashdot in that IQ test? I suspect many neck beards are still ruffled over that one. Nothing but posts about 'HAHA WE R SMERT' up until the law of averages kicked in and a million excuses flowed forth until the thread was eventually locked.
I always feel think "wow, this guy's kids must be miserable" when I read all these crazy anti-capitalist/anarchist style posts on/. then I remember most are virgins still trying to look cool enough to maybe get some sloppy from that cool goth slut they admire so much.
I've gone from six figures to zero and back again. Living on rice and beans and stealing wood for the fireplace is not really as enjoyable as driving my Corvette around or playing games on my i7.
IKEA is trash, tho. It is furnishing designed with 20-25 year olds on a low income and small place in mind. Nothing you would actually stick in a loft or house.
Good luck feeding such a gigantic population without food corporations, fail to mention get a car, build a building, get to space, get electricity, have a TV, internet, get your teeth fixed, medicine, surgery, air conditioning, etc without corporations. If people here really were serious about leaving these things behind, they wouldn't be posting about it on/.. They could easily buy a plane ticket to the upper edge of the uninhabited Canadian wilderness and live off the land and never, ever deal with anything related to commercialization or government again, but nope, they'll just whine on websites like they have some kind of insight we've all somehow missed.
I went to the trouble of logging in to say this and saw your post. I agree. Windows already allows a side-by-side window dragging that is very useful on a widescreen display and two documents.
The root of the window 'tabbing' issue is already addressed in Win7, too, but with a more visual versions of tabs on the new task bar. hover/click the icon and get a list of windows a particular application has spawned. You can make it look a little different, but the idea has already been done.
Honestly, I think it is time for KDE to do what they did long ago when they copied the Win95 interface. That made Linux feel better for noobs, thus a redesign with Aero in mind would do the same for a newer generation of noobs. I know, it's not fun for the fanbois, but it makes less 'leet' interface that would allow business users to have an easier time adapting.
For what it is worth, when I run into someone who just needs to fiddle with photos they took on their fancy new camera; I always recommend the GIMP.
If they say "I want to learn to build a professional looking website and do all my own content creation including mastering video", then I'll suggest Adobe's suites.
It is pretty dumb to stick it in a metal box. That is only 43 notes. You can easily shove that much in a decently broken in wallet or $30 money belt's compartment.
Not that he should have gotten in trouble for such a small amount, just there are smarter ways to transport cash. Having had three suitcases lost by airlines, there is no way in hell I would put even my favorite shirt in a suitcase for the airlines to handle.
Hint; If you are moving american dollars around it is a good idea to rinse and iron them. Too many notes can set off a drug dog due to residues. Plus the ladies will think you are cool when you pull out crisp bills to buy your Starwars action figures.
As a long time user of Photoshop (13 years now?) I will boldy pop into this thread and inform you GIMP is like Photoshop from ~10 years ago minus easily obtained plugins. Going further, the CS4 suite has zero threat of losing market share to open source alternatives in the professional realm.
Blender, on the other hand, is quite useful for modelling in such an environment. It doesn't hold a flame to Maya, but there is much less of a rift than GIMP vs Photoshop.
You didn't do a quick google before throwing down money on a used security device? This is similar to picking up a used spam appliance for $100 and demanding a free subscription to updated signatures.
Sorry dude, those signatures aren't written by the signature writing security fairy on top of twinkle toe mountain. People are paid to do it and that money has to come from a stable business model.
Don't like it? Build up something using open source and roll with it, nobody is going to stop you and you should probably work it into a distributable ISO and share with the rest of the world for free. But for the love of god, don't whine about companies who let you know up front what subscription rates are for their appliances. IF YOU DONT LIKE OR NEED IT DON'T FUCKING BUY IT.
Apologies, but sometimes you have to type in caps to remind people everything on the goddamned planet isn't going to be free and served to them on a silver platter.:)
If every OS image being installed was at least the latest "image" from one quarter ago, we definitely would have less problems as time goes by with new systems going online almost fully-patched and old patched systems go offline.
That's not a Microsoft issue. That's the responsibility of companies selling the systems with Windows installed. For instance, if you get a Dell or HP box with a Win7 to XP downgrade installed, you'll get a patched up copy of XP SP3 on your new system. You won't get the first press of XP's gold image from years ago with no service packs or patches.
Oh, I have paid for legit student copies of MS products. But they always come hamstrung with things like a 1 install limit, so if you reformat you're SOL. That's why you have to resort to piracy to be able to use what you actually paid for.
Just so you know, there is no "one install limit" on any Microsoft license. That would be ridiculous. There is a OEM license which is the tightest, allowing activation on a single motherboard, and requires a call to their WGA helpdesk for revalidation if your motherboard "failed" (ie, upgraded your hardware and want to be sneaky and get your system license moved over to the new one). If you are just doing the old Nuke n Pave, well, this doesn't affect any MS license. You'll still have the same hardware, thus will pass activation when the system has finished reinstalling.
But, the big one here.. There are no OEM system-bound licenses under their academic licenses, so I think you are trying to tell a tall tale to FUD Microsoft and fit in with the Linux crowd. Academic, by nature is loose enough to remove a license from one system and install on another since it's intended for lab environments, experimenting, etc.
If this is how you decide which hardware is best for a user, then I feel sorry for the people you build computers for. Microsoft, ATI, Nvidia, Logitech, Intel have all done shitty things but I don't intentionally give my clients sub-par configurations over personal, short-sighted grudges.
The only Nvidia card costing $500 is the GTX295, well at least for the market we are discussing. It's still quicker and slicker than any of ATI's current offerings so why, pray tell, would you be trying to mix it with an ATI at this point? I have one and, well, couldn't imagine any reason to waste RAM/CPU on multiple video drivers.
If you are talking about getting a $500 video card and sticking it on a board with integrated video, well, you've got some priority issues that you'll have to work out on your own.
I know this is probably something most people have looked down upon, but my friends and I used to dumpster dive at hardware distributors in my area just about every weekend. I got things like tower cases, empty raid chassis, piles of working hard drives, decent office supplies, etc. If not ordained, you'd be amazed at how 'clean' most computer company's dumpsters are. No food waste, diapers, or other grizzly things. Just cardboard boxes, all the anti-static bags you could ever want and the occasional soda can.
We all grew older, made more money and cut out the practice, but I was wondering if any of you currently do this? We would often run into police officers since they are curious about people in a business complex at 12am, but were often friendly and left us to our task. Is this still how it goes? I'd imagine with identity theft, coppers may be a little more agressive with people digging through the garbage.
Slashdot Mirror
Dammit, I've been trolled again.
I'm trolling for pointing out the fact that everybody loses by using such 'tactics' when shopping?
Just about everything you say enforces why it is important to reward good companies for good products instead of seeking to cause losses for ones you dislike.
Also, you should know better after a decade in the repair industry than to buy a retail SKU notebook. Business class is the only way to go due to the better warranties and they aren't slapping this week's popular GPU on any old board to up the specs without concern for TDP.
I stick with Lenovo and HP. Board failure? A guy shows up to my house or office in 48 hours and replaces it on the spot at no cost. Screen looks wonky? The guy shows up and replaces it. There is no waiting months for whatever. Invest that energy you use for scamming return policies into better shopping practices and you won't have much to be bitter about. Trust me.
Not to mention is horrific social skills if he can't float through a place like Best Buy without a major debate with a sales person.
If someone is saying something stupid in a store, it is easy enough just to ignore them and go about your business. I think a lot of this thread is hyperbole or people insecure about their own position in life and need to smash the egos of people earning $6/hr working at a crappy retailer.
The best part about MSE is it updates with Windows Update, so there are no extra steps to worry your end user with. Ah yes, and being free kicks butt.
I do purchase from Newegg, but I don't blindly trust their pricing scheme. They marked up SSDs massively when distribution channels were backordered. I was able to pick up a G2 160GB Intel drive for $440 when Newegg was taking orders for the same model for over $600.
They often over price accessories. Most recent one I've noticed is that NIA controller (some brain reading device) being like $120 after an 'instant rebate' but the same thing is sitting on the shelf at a local Microcenter store for $83. The same thing goes for their shipping rates often being flat on each product instead of by total weight of the purchase, so you end up paying way more for shipping than you ever would if you tried sending the same amount of stuff yourself.
Other things, such as CPUs and DIMMs, they do very well with and some of the shell shocker deals are pretty good. But, I would recommend looking around a bit before just blindly grabbing something from a retailer due to 'trust'.
As will HP or Lenovo. Any Smart Buy or Top Seller package will always come with Microsoft media and all the crapware on a seperate DVD so you can easily install just a copy of XP, Vista or Win7 (depending on which your SKU was assigned to) without any other software.
The only real snag with the 'big boys' business line is making sure you get 32 and 64 bit media up front. For some reason the support behind major brand systems often think Windows 7 licensing is tied to the bit level, which it is not.
Sorry, I work in distribution channels and Best Buy doesn't negociate based on what software is installed. If you get a part number KFA3544#ABA (made up part number) system at Best Buy, it will come with the exact same software image as the same part number from CompUSA, Newegg, or any other channel.
True, most companies would rather sell accessories as opposed to a computer system. Standard retail markup on just about anything we buy in a Walmart, Target, etc is 33% markup over distribution. The markup on a retail bought PC? Maybe 4-5% due to the endless competition and price wars over PCs. It is just a fact of life. Even most non-technical old people I know do know better than to spend a lot of money on cables, since companies like Monster Cables has drawn enough attention to anything cable-related for many years now. I really look at the big-box stores as "where to buy a cable/PSU/keyboard in an absolute emergency if working on a project due Monday and the system has an issue Saturday evening at 8PM".
I do call BS on the entire article. If these guys were so bright as to unveil a scam at BB, they should have been able to at least figure out what changed on the system. Incompetence all around, including TFA. They can't figure out why a machine is 1/3 slower when they get it back? Time to start writing articles on politics and leave IT alone.
Well, the cables you find online will cost $2 but charge $6.50 to ship it to you in most cases. Anyone walking into a retail store gloating about how much better prices are on some website are usually doing nothing but annoying the poor $6/hr lady at the cash register who was told by management to ask customers if they want a warranty with all purchases.
Mind you, I am not sure why the guy behind you would walk out. It seems like anyone who has ever shopped at Best Buy or CompUSA knows after the first visit they will ask if you want a warranty with a $5 mouse, or whatever. It's much like going to McDonalds and trying to make a scene when they ask if you would like fries with your burger, or to upsize your meal.
Kudos, though. You seem like the type who is just out to annoy people making minimum wage and contribute to their disdain for customers and hate their jobs even more. If you would like to be productive, perhaps write the district manager of these stores and let them know how annoying you find suggestive selling. It probably won't get anywhere, but nor will ruining a cashier's day.
So you go to Best Buy,
and rip them off...
That way we can make sure to encourage the retail chains in the US to remain as shitty as possible?
I don't shop at Best Buy, but I disagree with the practice of wasting other people's time and money, which is what this is. It is much wiser to go to Microcenter and get a $10 SATA or IDE enclosure and just keep your old drive in it as a spare or to give to a friend who needs one. All my old 100-120GB drives from the turn of the millenium are happily housed in such units and come in handy when someone needs temp storage or truck around some data.
Doing it this way, the retail establishment has no reason to jack up prices further, keeps employees employed, and Startech or whoever made the enclosure got a sale for a manufacturing a decent enough product.
There is a thousand ways to royally screw over companies using warranty and return policies, they don't take much thought to discover and abuse, but I don't think doing so is the path to any form of enlightenment.
Yes, but do you want to be running around supporting a 1,200 system deployment of the shittiest model Dell with an assortment of different motherboards, drives, lots of fans, and questionable build quality or 1,200 Wyse terminals that are identical in every fashion with no moving parts to fail?
Sure the prices get on up there for a good thin client, but it scales similar to going from GMA video to a Matrox or ATI dual head video card when comparing the nicer models to the most basic ones.
I guess if your IT people work for free, the Dell would be a better choice. Really, anyone wanting to put white-box or shitbox solutions in place of a proven thin client should not be in the position to make such decisions.
Remember when Fark and Facebook people beat out Slashdot in that IQ test? I suspect many neck beards are still ruffled over that one. Nothing but posts about 'HAHA WE R SMERT' up until the law of averages kicked in and a million excuses flowed forth until the thread was eventually locked.
I always feel think "wow, this guy's kids must be miserable" when I read all these crazy anti-capitalist/anarchist style posts on /. then I remember most are virgins still trying to look cool enough to maybe get some sloppy from that cool goth slut they admire so much.
I've gone from six figures to zero and back again. Living on rice and beans and stealing wood for the fireplace is not really as enjoyable as driving my Corvette around or playing games on my i7.
IKEA is trash, tho. It is furnishing designed with 20-25 year olds on a low income and small place in mind. Nothing you would actually stick in a loft or house.
Good luck feeding such a gigantic population without food corporations, fail to mention get a car, build a building, get to space, get electricity, have a TV, internet, get your teeth fixed, medicine, surgery, air conditioning, etc without corporations. If people here really were serious about leaving these things behind, they wouldn't be posting about it on /.. They could easily buy a plane ticket to the upper edge of the uninhabited Canadian wilderness and live off the land and never, ever deal with anything related to commercialization or government again, but nope, they'll just whine on websites like they have some kind of insight we've all somehow missed.
I went to the trouble of logging in to say this and saw your post. I agree. Windows already allows a side-by-side window dragging that is very useful on a widescreen display and two documents.
The root of the window 'tabbing' issue is already addressed in Win7, too, but with a more visual versions of tabs on the new task bar. hover/click the icon and get a list of windows a particular application has spawned. You can make it look a little different, but the idea has already been done.
Honestly, I think it is time for KDE to do what they did long ago when they copied the Win95 interface. That made Linux feel better for noobs, thus a redesign with Aero in mind would do the same for a newer generation of noobs. I know, it's not fun for the fanbois, but it makes less 'leet' interface that would allow business users to have an easier time adapting.
I agree.
For what it is worth, when I run into someone who just needs to fiddle with photos they took on their fancy new camera; I always recommend the GIMP.
If they say "I want to learn to build a professional looking website and do all my own content creation including mastering video", then I'll suggest Adobe's suites.
It is pretty dumb to stick it in a metal box. That is only 43 notes. You can easily shove that much in a decently broken in wallet or $30 money belt's compartment.
Not that he should have gotten in trouble for such a small amount, just there are smarter ways to transport cash. Having had three suitcases lost by airlines, there is no way in hell I would put even my favorite shirt in a suitcase for the airlines to handle.
Hint; If you are moving american dollars around it is a good idea to rinse and iron them. Too many notes can set off a drug dog due to residues. Plus the ladies will think you are cool when you pull out crisp bills to buy your Starwars action figures.
As a long time user of Photoshop (13 years now?) I will boldy pop into this thread and inform you GIMP is like Photoshop from ~10 years ago minus easily obtained plugins. Going further, the CS4 suite has zero threat of losing market share to open source alternatives in the professional realm.
Blender, on the other hand, is quite useful for modelling in such an environment. It doesn't hold a flame to Maya, but there is much less of a rift than GIMP vs Photoshop.
Agreed. Proliant FTW! Oh wait, HP is a bunch of fuckers too.
Wow, you can copy and paste.
You didn't do a quick google before throwing down money on a used security device? This is similar to picking up a used spam appliance for $100 and demanding a free subscription to updated signatures.
Sorry dude, those signatures aren't written by the signature writing security fairy on top of twinkle toe mountain. People are paid to do it and that money has to come from a stable business model.
Don't like it? Build up something using open source and roll with it, nobody is going to stop you and you should probably work it into a distributable ISO and share with the rest of the world for free. But for the love of god, don't whine about companies who let you know up front what subscription rates are for their appliances. IF YOU DONT LIKE OR NEED IT DON'T FUCKING BUY IT.
Apologies, but sometimes you have to type in caps to remind people everything on the goddamned planet isn't going to be free and served to them on a silver platter. :)
Perhaps you should crack a window. The air in your mother's basement must be getting high carbon dioxide levels today.
If every OS image being installed was at least the latest "image" from one quarter ago, we definitely would have less problems as time goes by with new systems going online almost fully-patched and old patched systems go offline.
That's not a Microsoft issue. That's the responsibility of companies selling the systems with Windows installed. For instance, if you get a Dell or HP box with a Win7 to XP downgrade installed, you'll get a patched up copy of XP SP3 on your new system. You won't get the first press of XP's gold image from years ago with no service packs or patches.
Geeze ppl.. Where do you come up with this crap?
To quote Star Trek - "It's logic Spock, I thought you'd like that?"
It's logic alright, albeit very flawed.
Oh, I have paid for legit student copies of MS products. But they always come hamstrung with things like a 1 install limit, so if you reformat you're SOL. That's why you have to resort to piracy to be able to use what you actually paid for.
Just so you know, there is no "one install limit" on any Microsoft license. That would be ridiculous. There is a OEM license which is the tightest, allowing activation on a single motherboard, and requires a call to their WGA helpdesk for revalidation if your motherboard "failed" (ie, upgraded your hardware and want to be sneaky and get your system license moved over to the new one). If you are just doing the old Nuke n Pave, well, this doesn't affect any MS license. You'll still have the same hardware, thus will pass activation when the system has finished reinstalling.
But, the big one here.. There are no OEM system-bound licenses under their academic licenses, so I think you are trying to tell a tall tale to FUD Microsoft and fit in with the Linux crowd. Academic, by nature is loose enough to remove a license from one system and install on another since it's intended for lab environments, experimenting, etc.
If this is how you decide which hardware is best for a user, then I feel sorry for the people you build computers for. Microsoft, ATI, Nvidia, Logitech, Intel have all done shitty things but I don't intentionally give my clients sub-par configurations over personal, short-sighted grudges.
The only Nvidia card costing $500 is the GTX295, well at least for the market we are discussing. It's still quicker and slicker than any of ATI's current offerings so why, pray tell, would you be trying to mix it with an ATI at this point? I have one and, well, couldn't imagine any reason to waste RAM/CPU on multiple video drivers.
If you are talking about getting a $500 video card and sticking it on a board with integrated video, well, you've got some priority issues that you'll have to work out on your own.
I know this is probably something most people have looked down upon, but my friends and I used to dumpster dive at hardware distributors in my area just about every weekend. I got things like tower cases, empty raid chassis, piles of working hard drives, decent office supplies, etc. If not ordained, you'd be amazed at how 'clean' most computer company's dumpsters are. No food waste, diapers, or other grizzly things. Just cardboard boxes, all the anti-static bags you could ever want and the occasional soda can.
We all grew older, made more money and cut out the practice, but I was wondering if any of you currently do this? We would often run into police officers since they are curious about people in a business complex at 12am, but were often friendly and left us to our task. Is this still how it goes? I'd imagine with identity theft, coppers may be a little more agressive with people digging through the garbage.