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Iceman Otzi was a Fighter

Theatetus writes "Yahoo! News is running a story from USA Today that Otzi the iceman's murder is more complicated than we thought. It seems Otzi had blood on his clothes and knife from four different people in patterns that suggested he took out two with his bow and carried a wounded or dead person over his shoulder. I sense an action movie in the making..." If you don't remember Otzi, read the original story.

13 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. he speaks to us from the grave.. by peculiarmethod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    with his leathered 5000 yr old skin, his bronze axe, knife, quiver, his grass cloak (usually worn by heardsmen until the last century) and series of wounds (did I mention self-ritualized death?).. Otzi reminds us that life in the alps is cold, dangerous, and just not worth it. (for it, see *MURDER*)

    btw.. i think it's great that they used the pollen (which various form found are only released in Autumn) to figure out what things were like when he died. Harsh, autumn is in the alps.. he was fighting many men for days at a time in dead brutal conditions.. RAD.. go otzi

    p

    --
    ** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
  2. criminal by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    he could have been a bandit that tried to rob the wrong people. Didn't they find him in a pass? Perfect place to ambush some travelers.

  3. Read the book "Iceman" if... by joshamania · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...you are an archeologist and would like a good cry.

    It's a bit boring and slow at times, but overall pretty interesting. The most memorable piece of the book describes hikers and local police/government types hacking at the ice and mud that Otzi was frozen in, irreparably damaging the corpse...breaking the bow (& arrows) in half by snapping it off in the ice when trying to pry it out of the frozen muck. The initial discover of Otzi was nothing less than a tragedy for science.

    The book also discusses in detail all the political BS that went along with the discovery...whether he was found in Italy or Austria and who really "owned" Otzi. One big mess, really...

    1. Re:Read the book "Iceman" if... by GeoGreg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IANAA (I Am Not An Archeologist), but I wonder if there's any chance that some of that DNA comes from the people digging him out. An untrained hiker or cop accidentally nicks a finger on an arrowhead, etc. I would assume that they can distinguish 5000 year old blood from 10 year old blood, but I don't know if this is true. I think this post is sufficiently uninformed for /.

  4. Maybe it was justifiable homicide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    How do we know it was murder? Maybe this Otzi was some Paleolithic punk all hopped up on loco weed and some caveman Clint Eastwood put the arrow in his back in an act of righteous justice.

  5. Re:DNA by Mostly+Harmless · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Egarter matched the knife to the hand and found a deep gash on the hand that had been missed in previous studies. He then found another cut on the left hand and bruises on the torso, as if Otzi had been beaten."

    The article also shows the advancement in forensic analysis. What do they mean they missed a DEEP GASH on his hand? C'mon, guys. Eyeglasses were invented in Italy. Use them.

    --
    "`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -Douglas Adams, THHGTTG
  6. Re:The speculations just keep getting wilder... by delong · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, the article seems to suggest that the scientists concluded that Otzi had attempted to remove the arrow from his back, but only succeeded in removing the shaft, leaving the point in his shoulder.

    He was found clutching his knife, with indications from cuts on his hands that he was in a knife fight. With bruises to his torso that indicate he may have been beaten.

    Seems to me the evidence does seem to point to the scenario: he was shot, pulled the shaft from his body, and was in a running fight that ended with a nasty close-up knife fight, which resulted in his demise.

    Derek

  7. Why do we assume he was a hero? by digger3001 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Maybe he wasn't a good guy, but a murderer or rapist who was carrying away his "treasure" and being chased by the local peoples.

    It's interesting how people automatically assume he was some explorer, a hero of his time.

    Dig

    1. Re:Why do we assume he was a hero? by watzinaneihm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He had an unused axe which is an indicator of status. So he must be a chieftain.
      He was 46 and probably a grandfather, and he had blood on his cloak trying to carry his wounded friend. So he must be a good guy
      He fought and killed two of his assailants - so he is brave
      Or he killed his chieftain,stole his axe, raped his daughter and was trying to kidnap her and hid in a ravine and sneakily and using "terrorist" tactics killed two of the chieftains sons
      Unlikely, but possible. But then again it should be a perfectly valid thing to do, Just read hamlet.

      --
      .ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
  8. Re:incorrect count by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Probably not a wounded friend. Wounded meal, maybe.

    4 types of DNA from a European area that old is quite a find however. I'm interested to see how they are all related to each other and to us today. I'm also interested to see whether they can be used to re-run the tests for Neanderthal DNA.

  9. Re:No wonder everything is so boring lately by bytesmythe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While we're at it, I'm beginning to think this whole "rule of law" thing is going too far, myself. It does nothing for the sense of "vengeance" human societies were founded upon for millennia.

    How many people have you met that leave you shaking your head as you walk away? They're whiny, stuck-up, self-centered, or complete assholes. It's because we aren't allowed to beat the hell out of people who fully deserve it. In a more "natural" sort of human society, being a jerk is a crime, and can get you a severe ass kicking.

    Let's get rid of these silly laws and get back to the good ol' days!

    (Note for the humor impaired: this post is meant only half-seriously. It is in no way an attack on the parent post, nor is it meant as a real suggestion that we return to a state of complete lawlessness. I think the parent post [and mine] have a real point to make, though. A fundamental part of our human brain evolved to handle an environment that we almost never exposed to now, and a 9-5 job is no match for beating sabre-tooth tigers with clubs. *grin*)

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    bytesmythe
    Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
    -- Scott Meyer
  10. Congratulations, Dig, you just rediscovered ... by jeko · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Rorschach blots. There have been a billion studies of exactly this question, and the answer is...

    we see what we want to. And what we want are heroes, not villians. Given an unknown, we want that unknown to be Vin Diesel fighting the good fight, not Ted Bundy making of with a co-ed.

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  11. Re:Oh man! by Zak3056 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Vin Diesel would have to get his acting up to "caveman" though

    Stephen Speilberg disagrees with your assessment of Vin Diesel's acting ability--or at least I'd have to assume so, since the role of Caparzo in Saving Private Ryan was written especially for him...

    --
    What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?