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Apple to Accept Returns of Mac OS X on Some G3s
An anonymous reader writes "A class-action lawsuit was filed over Mac OS X not working correctly on some of the older G3's, and Apple has tentatively agreed to refund the purchase price of the OS ($129) to people who purchased it for use on those computers, and wish to return it." The agreement is not final. If you wish to continue using the OS on your computer, despite it not working fully, you can instead receive a $25 coupon. The deal will, apparently, apply to the iMacs through the fruit-colored models; the pre-chiclet iBooks; the PowerBook G3s; the first three Power Mac G3 models; and the all-in-one Power Mac G3.
This was posted on MacSlash couple of days ago.
A software maker granting a refund for a product (even if it is under threat)? I can hear the fuses popping in certain brains in a nameless northwestern city.
Seriously though, this tells you a lot about the both the Mac community and Apple. The machines are so good that people are able to file a lawsuit due to expecting X performance on a machine and not getting it, and expect to have a case. Wow.
Personally, I doubt Apple deserves this (I mean, come on - older machines tend to not be supported as well, and early releases of software are know to be less solid than later ones.) But it does say a lot about the Apple World.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Agreed but maybe if we had less radical action groups like peta and the nra and more normal action groups that actually got support we would be able to have some legislation head our way. We have to stop electing these career politicans and big business people and get some changes made. I am scared for america we are a product of our own poor school system and crappy family structure. We are a product of our own apathy
***I GOT NUTHIN***
I'm glad to see that apple is doing this. Good for them.
However,
I'm still skeptical for some of their other things, involving Warranty Return items. Example: Boss has brand new Powerbook. Within 3 weeks the LCD dies. Apple is still trying to collect $700-something dollars for the repair, when IMHO it should be a warranty item. FWIW the guy has been a super-loyal Apple Fanatic since the Apple ][
This eMac i'm typing on was purchased with 1Gb of ram, but arrived with 512 only. Also, the OS was completely b0rked when it arrived, which required a reinstall of OS X. It's got a few dead pixels on the screen but Apple refuses to listen.
I'm not trying to bash apple, andi know there are other, worse companies, but i guess i expected them to be a little better after the sale. They've been worse than a used-car dealer by my experience at the Mac-centric ISP i work for.
do() || do_not();
Microsoft would NEVER do this.
Everyday it looks more and more like my next machine will be an Apple. What Microsoft fails to understand is that their customers hate Microsoft's "Screw the customer" attitude more than the bugs in their products.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
But it's not about minimum specs at all. The PowerBook I run it on is well above the minimum specs.
From Apple's "System Requirements" page:
There was the original G3 Powerbook, the Series I, the Series II, the Bronze and the Firewire line. So we're talking two series past the minimum.
Yeah, but speed doesn't equal productivity. You can use Gnome to do nothing, but really fast. You can also use Mac OS X to do your work, but slower.
I do PC support and a very close friend of mine does Mac support and Mac warranty fulfilment. We're constantly trading horror stories and he has told me of a few hardware related problems that Apple still has to resolve:
Powerbook power supplies that not only burn out prematurely but are a fire and electrical hazard.
Some recent Powerbook units that refuse to come out of sleep mode.
IPODs that refuse to allow flash upgrades and units that continue to have problems with charging the batteries even with the newest flash upgrades. The newest units do not have this problem, he says.
Now before anyone shouts out that their Powerbook or IPOD works magnificently, these are hardware related problems that he gets DAILY and that Apple is aware of and does not appear to care about. They replace the parts under warranty and that's all he can do. I have no reason to doubt his assertions, but I have to wonder why Apple would let such glaring problems as faulty power adaptors persist. Also, he pointed out to me that people only call him with problems, never to thank him for a working Mac so his perception is probably a little skewed.
I purchased a refurb Wallstreet G3/266 Powerbook, slapped 512 megs of RAM in it, and put OS X 10.2.6 on it, and it runs like a dream. Sure, it's a bit slow, particularly when OS X tries to do the funky window zoom effects that undoubtedly look stunning on faster Macs, and it doesn't play the more recent Quicktime movies flawlessly...but it's 266 frickin' megahertz, what do they expect?
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
It's not simply apathy that's at fault here, nor radical action groups. As has been stated numerous times here on /., today's political situation makes it very difficult for average citizens to even know who to vote for. It's hard for anyone to even get on a ballot without corporate sponsorship (today, political parties are just a euphemism for corporate sponsorship). The cost of running an effective election campaign, even at the local level, is enormous. This weeds out potential candidates who are either not motivated enough, not wealthy enough or unwilling to be a corporate proxy. We wind up with election ballots which limit us to choosing which corporate sponsors we hate less.
In order to make educated voting decisions, voters must do extensive research into candidates, from the local town board elections on up. Who do they have corporate ties to? Are they independantly wealthy enough to campaign without party sponsorship? What is their voting record? What legislation have they personally authored or sponsored? What organizations do they belong to? Naturally, noone makes this info readily accessible either.
People are inherently lazy, unfortunately. I can't even say that I put as much work into researching elections as I should. Many people can't even stand contemplating this; they limit themselves to whomever gives them the best sound bytes. Until a large enough number of people are willing to work at choosing alternative candidates, starting from the local elections, corporate sponsorship will dictate American politics.
The strength of the Macintosh comes from the fact that there is a limited range of hardware that needs to be supported from the factory. There isn't 34 different video cards to support.
Apple doesn't have an excuse. They claimed that OS X would work on all the G3s. They should have written the drivers or refunded the $$$, or never wrote checks that their body couldn't cash.
MS never claimed that Windows XP would work on your 386, 8086, 8088. IIRC, MS said that many would need to upgrade. Of course, MS isn't (fervently) trying to increase hardware sales.
It's a little scary when the only computer your OS runs on is made by the same company. Look at Be Inc. and their BeOS/BeBox to 'Internet Appliance' focus shift. Whoops. Lets not develop our OS except for toasters. (I blame MS too, of course...)
No, Apple isn't dying. In fact, I think Apple is poised to beat some stuffing out of MS.
Apple does need to avoid vaporware claims, and treating their customers like two-dollar whores - we get enough of that elsewhere.
Excuse me, but G3 machines (all of them) were sold as "will be supported by the new Mac OS" when they were on the market. They're still listed as "supported" to this very day. I'm not party to this lawsuit, but I can tell you that the problems with OS X on "supported" beige G3 machines are more than just people not liking OS 9.
When I tried to upgrade from OS 9 to OS X, the system wouldn't boot the install CD. Apple told me to replace the Apple SCSI CD-ROM drive it came with with an IDE CD-ROM drive from a short list. I shelled out money and replaced the SCSI CD-ROM with the IDE one.
I was then able to get it to boot, but it would fail in the middle of install. Once it did complete install, but as soon as I booted, it punted and when I tried to reboot again, the install was corrupted and would hang without reaching the desktop. Apple told me to replace the Apple SCSI hard drive with any EIDE hard drive. So I shelled out money and bought an EIDE hard drive.
Then I was able to install and use OS X, only to find that video acceleration on beige G3 system is not supported. If you're too new to computing to have ever used unaccelerated video, you have no idea how painfully slow it is, especially on a system as graphics-heavy as OS X. Any window operation, from resizing a window to scrolling text to minimizing a window to the dock can be timed in seconds rather than the "instant" redraws users of modern computers are accustomed to. To add final insult, my external SCSI Zip doesn't work under OS X.
Apple's responses to both of these problems is a raspberry. There are no plans to add accelerated video drivers for the ATI Rage chipsets in these machines. The internal SCSI on Beige G3s "may work reliably" which basically means that it also "may not work reliably" and that was certainly my experience. They suggest I add a supported PCI SCSI controller if I want to use SCSI peripherals.
Not gonna happen, I've already shelled out enough to try and keep a foot in the Mac world, I gave up and the machine is now in storage.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
You see, the class action lawsuit is how the law is applied.. You can't send the police after a company based on civil laws. It isn't a crime, but it does make them responsible. The class action lawsuit is how the law is enforced, the consumer who was effected by the bad product sues the company, and they get their money back, thus the company is responsible for not delivering on their promises.
I'm on a powerbook g3, 233Mhz, 160Mb of RAM. It runs a bit slow, but it's fast enough that I was able to give my 650Mhz Acer laptop away to my sister, who needed a machine. I have to say, I've had really -no- problems at all using this laptop, and I have to wonder what type of technical problems people are experiencing. OS X even runs fast enough for pretty much everything that I do, and although I plan to buy a faster machine in the future, this one is more than sufficient to run OS X in the time being.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Just give these people new machines. First, you'll regain their goodwill. You have new machines coming out and they'll probably buy them later. Second, you'll increase the adoption rate of OS X, even if it would be with a soon-to-be older edition (hint: they'd probably buy the OS X Panther). Third, you get rid of probably excess inventory. Clearing out functioning G3 and G4 hardware is going to happen eventually, so why not take a write-down now when it will actually save you money in the long-run (by not losing longterm customers)? Fourth, you continue to prove you are better than Microsoft. Fifth -- and this is trolling -- if Best Buy can give customers brand new computers after theirs fail spectacularly providing they bought the $300 extended warranty (PSP) and continue to make money, so can you. I've seen plenty of times where Best Buy managers replaced ancient customer computers with mid to high-end units simply because the customer originally bought those blasted service plans. So if any of these customers bought your Apple Care Plans, just give them new machines with 10.2.6 installed. And just as a disclaimer, I never have owned a Mac, although I'm planning on buying one shortly (bring out a mid-range Firewire-based flatbed scanner too, by the way)...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
One rule of advice though, GET MEMORY!!!! I ended up putting the full gig of dimms in and it runs almost as fast as our sawtooth at work. Memory helps big time!!!!
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
However, if you bought Connectix's Mode32, that would patch MacOS to support 128 meg, and added virtual memory support.
There was a consumer lawsuit, and eventually Apple agreed to buy a copy of Mode32 for any MacII owner who wanted 128 megs or virtual memory, and reimburse those who already had it.
It's funny...one of the supposed points in favor of Macs over PCs is that since Apple controls the hardware and the software, the system will work better. Yet that is twice now Apple has had to be sued to actually make it work.
Apple seems to be refusing to acknowledge this one.
WHAT? Dude, it's right there on the FIRST PAGE of the "Before You Install" readme! "HEY, ASSHOLE! You have to upgrade your firmware FIRST!" Big letters, bold type.
WTF is Apple supposed to "acknowledge" exactly? That a disappointing number of Apple's customers are FUCKING MORONS who CAN'T or WON'T read?
Sheesh.