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Chinese Government to Use Only Local Software
owlmon writes "CNET Asia is reporting that China has outlawed foreign software in government applications. I expect that software buyers outside of the government will have to follow this lead. It's the same "network effect" that has powered Microsoft's growth for years. When the entire Chinese government is using WPS Office, anyone doing business with the government will feel mighty encouraged to follow suit. Otherwise, how will they exchange documents?"
Don't automatically assume that Chinese gov't will follow the open standards ideology.
Most of my school, and offices, and home users in general use MS Word. Just because thats the mainstream, I don't have to run MS word or even windows to work with them. I use the linux alternatives like OpenOffice, Koffice etc. which converts MS word documents just fine. You don't always have to conform to be compatbile
It would be great to see usa work the same way and supporting their own OS makers. Instead of supporting them, usa sues them and tries to split em up...
Logic: No.
NumB http://www.engvig.net
Awww, too bad Microsoft won't see any profits from the 80% reduction in software piracy.
To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. --Scooby Doo
Do the folks making WPS Office make available the data needed to make other office suites, like OpenOffice.org and ABIWord, able to read and write in WPS Office's format? Or does WPS use some format already recognized by an alternative office package?
Despite millions of years of evolution, human beings, taken as a group, are still stupid, panicky animals.
What if they decide to ignore the GPL and start stealing code without offering sources?
Would Linux and other open source be considered "local" if there are Chineese contributors?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
The article only briefly mentions it, but the Chinese government is still fully behind Red Flag Linux. It's safe to say that their entire IT infrastructure will soon be based on Free Software. Unfortunately, the article doesn't delve too deeply into the causes, merits, and implications of this decision.
> Otherwise, how will they exchange documents?
Anyone remember paper?
All the IT jobs are moving to Asia anyway. Who needs retail software jobs? Not me! Would you like some fries with that?
Nonono... it's "would you like noodles with that?"
I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.
-a
3) Spend money on local economy rather giving it away to a foreign company
:-)
Unlike private users, governments should take public interest into account when buying software. For example, US government could do well to avoid buying software from companies that have excessive foreign development centers
They can still exchange documents with the rest of the world by exporting them to some standard format, like HTML or RTF. If there is no software to do it, government's demands will sure encourage some local programs to be written.
It would be another matter if they forced common people use a specific word processor, with a nice keyword scanner that reports suspicious documents to the government. Its not out of the question in China, and perhaps in US. But that's something unrelated to this article.
Guess what, We cant afford our software, you go buy photoshop, I'll use Gimp.
Do you think I care if they dont buy our intellectual property when I dont own any of it and dont profit from any of its sales? Do you think I care if they pirate music when artists dont even own the copyrights on the music?
Its not a matter of them buying our goods, if their goods are better and cheaper why not buy theirs? Sure I prefer to buy goods made in the USA to support the US economy, but I'm not rich, so a choice must be made, if our products are equally as good and the same price I'll always buy ours, but if their products are better and cost less I'll be forced to buy theirs.
Either way their cheaper products will force the price of our products down, this will help the economy.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
It is interesting to see an oppressive government fighting for its freedom from an oppressive corporation.
It looks like both sides are getting a taste of their own medicine.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
WPS Office is, unless something has changed, as proprietary as is Microsoft Office.
And AVS for audio/video is patent/royalty encumbered.
How is it in the interests of the people in any nation, that daily government operations and communication be dependent upon a private corporation?
When will we see a government -- a people -- that will stand up to large corporate interests and fund the development and deployment of an open source office suite and groupware servers and clients, of similar or higher quality than existing proprietary solutions, so that the daily operation of our government will not be dependent upon the business strategies of private corporations.
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
"Maybe we should send the British navy back in to convince them to start buying our goods again."
Ah yes, the "free market" by military cooercion. Works every time. You do understand that this behaviour played a significant role in the success of the rise of communism in China in the first place?
Nevermind the fact that American copyright law does not extend beyond its borders and that the Chinese ( and Icelandics, Hugarians, New Guinians, Bhutanese, etc.) have the right to decide on their own just what constitutes "piracy" of intellectual property and what doesn't. The Chinese are free to take a more Jeffersonian approach to such matters than America is if they wish to. Ironic, isn't it?
Nor are the Chinese alone in such "piracy." Walk up to nearly any street vendor in NYC and you can walk away with bucket loads of pirated and unlicensed merchandise. At one point the Sam Goody Record stores were selling illegal rips as the legitimate article as fast as they could truck them in. Hell, you yourself just might be in possession of "pirated" music or movies obtained through various purely American channels.
Free Tibet. Up with Democracy. Fine. I'm with you.
But Intellectual "Property" isn't natural law. It's a purely human construct of extremely recent vintage and more dubious under the American Constitutional form of government than just about any other.
It's local code. Like how long you get to park at a meter for your quarter.
China isn't in our local jurisdiction.
KFG
Look at the propoganda wording being used!
Chinese government "outlaws" foreign software! Oh those evil bastards!
But when the USA government mandates MS it's not "outlawing foreign software" it's just "helping the economy by buying domestically".
What a crock...
The move is not to stop sale of non-chinese software but to force software MNCs to invest in China and start their development facilities in China.
This is nothing new. In the middle-east most countries require foreign companies to partner with a local company that holds the controlling stake. So for example, IBM operates as GBM (Gulf Business Machines) in the middle-east.
So, the Chinese government won't buy software from M$(US) but from M$(China) after M$ sets up a development facility in China. This will also force MNCs to divert investments from other competing economies like India, Indonesia, Philipines etc.
On the other hand, desktops and servers could run Linux and other open source software customised for Chinese, networking equipment would be sourced from Hua-Wei, chips are already manufactured in China. What else's remaining??
From BBC News -- "Your Microsoft Word document can give readers more information about you than you might think. Even Alastair Campbell has fallen foul of the snippets of invisible data few of us realise our documents contain."
If you use Microsoft Word in a business environment -- or for anything where your information is valuable -- it is recommended that you look into what hidden files may be hiding in your Word documents.
It is becoming more clear that all of Windows and every Microsoft application is likely to be similar to Microsoft Word -- filled with hidden information and hidden functionality that has never been disclosed by Microsoft.
An aphorism of gambling says, "Only make a bet when you can afford to lose". In China's case, your entire nation's strength and health is at risk when they are using Microsoft software, so it simple to see that it is a bet that cannot be made.
Sun Tzu wrote "All war is deception." The big deception is Microsoft's "Source Code for Governments". What does that matter when you download binary "security" patches, "updates", "new drivers", "service packs", etc? What does that matter when you don't get to see the Microsoft Office source code? Microsoft's "Emperor's New Source Code" program is nothing but smoke and mirrors, deception at its finest. It looks like the Chinese have wised up to Microsoft's deception and given Microsoft the boot.
What will it take for the rest of the world to wake up and realize that the only software you can trust is open source?
I can't really see how this means better software, or more competition, given that they have just banned foreign software, which includes also much of open source software.
They could just develop some local chinese lousy product. Or alternatively, they could throw in a few highly skilled thousand chinese software developers and develop good products. Either way, it wouldnt be an outcome of free market or competition, and i'd rather not see that product come out of China...
One Microsoft is enough!
China's respect for human rights and their software usage are totally unrelated issues.
It is a good thing they choose other software than Microsoft, for this will create serious competition in a monopolistic market. This will stimulate innovation and will drive prices down in the long run.
The Human Right issue is of course a serious one and should be dicussed at any UN summit over and over again, as should the illegal detention of outlawed warriors on Guantanamo Bay for that matter.
With the US government's current foreign policy, it's no wonder other countries are skeptical of software from companies such as Microsoft that are 'in bed' with them ( see Microsoft anti-trust trial for evidence of relationship between Microsoft and government ).
If Microsoft wants to stay on top, they will have to distance themselves from the US government, or they will simply not be trusted.
Or perhaps it's too late...
This is good for China and great for open-source.
China gains in the short term by throwing off the handcuffs offered by BG. and Co.
Open-source gains down the road when China starts giving back. This may take a few years, but once open source gets a foothold in China it will be massively adopted (We are seeing this right now) but more importantly, we might be seeing the start of a common language for China.
What we get back from the Chinese via the GPL may be more than we bargained for.
And I am hoping uniting China under a Free software initiative will perhaps take on a life of its own.
So they pirate "your" music and whatnot and decide not to embrace american IP law that's more and more perverted to serve just one purpose: keep the big (mostly US-) corporations on top and make it hard for anyone else to enter the market. And why shoud China play by a set of rules that only puts them at a disadvantage? The USA didn't either, if they did they'd probably still be some kind of british colony but definitly not what they are today. Neither did americans respect foreign IP when they reprinted works of foreign authors without paying royalties until 1891.
And yeah, why not send in the troops when economic interests are threatened. Like invading Iraq for example (and no, they didn't find those weapons of mass destruction, or any proof of a connection to al Quaeda, all they found out was that all official reasons for starting that war were bogus and that Bush and Blair even knew they were bogus).
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
You should not despise that easily, just come by and visit and you will see what this so called "comunists" are doing. Just as a token of reference, I've been 2 weeks here (beijing china) and seen lots (I mean lots!) of Mc Donald's, KFC, TJI Fridays etc etc.. They are everywhere! Coffee at any of the local Starbucks is about 23 Yuen (US $3.00) and the places are packed! (of local chinese kids ) I've never seen a more capitalistic place than this! (and believe me I'vee been all over the world) Considering than 10 years ago people where marching against tanks, the current government has done an incredible job of transformation with a minimum of pain (Just look at the USSR) Granted, there are still a lot of human right pending issues, but it is pretty hipocritical to complain about it while very similar behaviour is going on in the US (read guantanamo, etc etc.) Those who fail to study their history, are doom to repeat it. alx.
How is calling it Red Flag nationalistic? The red flag has a history as a symbol of socialism and revolution and the labor movement worldwide ever since the French revolution, and is still used worldwide. You may not like the symbolism or it's use, but how one could label it nationalistic is beyond me.
I tried skimming all these responses, but I didn't see anyone else mention it. China, by banning a foreign software product, is raising a barrier to trade. At the same time, China wants to join the World Trade Organization (they didn't get accepted yet right?). So in the end, this law sounds like something the WTO is going to demand China repeal if they want to join.
Oh, Edmund, can it be true? that I hold here, in my mortal hand, a nugget of purest green?
I understand your exaggerating to make your point but I really doubt that any who sits back and really thinks about the actual impact of this would agree with you. Once you close the loop and force people to use a particular product or source, then your virtually creating a monopoly which as we all know tend to resists doing any real innovation (because frankly they don't have to) to soak up more profits. The real solution to getting better programs is to put them in place via investments/grants/R&D/tax brakes etc, reduce your government IT budgets and give the pencil pushers a choice. We all know the dangers in either making it too easy or too difficult when it comes to government pencil pushers. They'll end up doing what's easier for them and not necessarily what's best.
Just look at it from a business point of view...what better environment exists to create a lovely company?... 1) find a government that's thinks it needs a software industry to protect against the Americans, 2) grab some free software who's licenses/patents aren't particularly valid under the given government's rules, 3) hire a few severely underpaid code monkeys to make the necessary changes, 4) sit back as huge wads of money start to fall from the sky, 5) hire marketers to ensure that the government keeps coming back for regular upgrades until they become so dependant that they don't consider anything else.
Why innovate when you can suck the system dry when both parties are happy: the government feeling good about supporting the local community, and the business who's sitting in huge piles of cash..... Kinda reminds me of the Microsoft/IBM deal.... And we all know what happened there...
Anyhow didn't want to bring you down, we can always hope that your view prevails, but the realist in me just can't see it happen.
The WPS Office Suite is produced by "Golden Mountain Software Company" (it's a direct translation from the Chinese characters) and the web site is located at http://www.wps.com.cn/
According to press release at http://www.wps.com.cn/newsview.php?id=174 The WPS 2003 Office Suite will be on sale starting August 30th, the WPS Office Suite 2003.
The WPS Office Suite will carry the price of 1298 Chinese Yuan, (about USD 160).
All previous users of any softwares produced by WPS are eligible to upgrade to the latest WPS Office Suite 2003 for Ten Chinese Yuan (a little less than USD 2.00).
Yep, less than USD 2.00 for a complete upgrade.
Dunno if that includes the postage and handling or not, tho.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It is no great leap of imagination that when all code can contain spyware, spyholes, hidden data, etc., that "opening the source" is a big step towards trust.
In China, there are many factions to the power base. If the source code for software is not open, then even these factions cannot trust each other. Maybe a general put in special spy code. Maybe the information ministry put in special spy code. The possibilities are endless. The only solution is keeping the source open. A government that fights too much within itself will not stand strong for very long.
It is easy to see why China is going with open source. If a general or minister puts in spyware, it can be spotted. If China went with Microsoft, a general could bribe Microsoft to put in special spyware for the general's use that no one else could detect. It is obvious that a government that wants to minimize useless fighting within itself will go with open source. Using open source to foster internal trust may even end up being a survival trait.
As an aside, when it comes to the USA, why would people blindly accept the Microsoft Palladium/DRM/1984-ware OS that is going to be shoved down their throats -- with no source available? This system enables a single monopoly, obviously in cahoots with the government, to be far more oppressive than what China is doing, at least so far.
As Microsoft has been proven in US court to have ruthlessly predated on businesses and citizens of their own country, I would think the government of any nation would be wary of working with Microsoft. As has been shown in the USA, if you let Microsoft operate in your country, you are inviting a vampire into your house that will suck the life blood from you.
Thus in a very simple sense, China could be merely picking "something else" so they get the Microsoft vampire out of their country. It makes perfect sense to go with home-grown software as they'd know the companies, the products, and the people who work there. That's far more secure for national interests than having a foreign vampire roaming around, stealing your secrets and continually causing problems with their insistence on high prices and Western IP laws.
Trying to encourage the development of technology in your country by limiting access of outside competition has been tried before. In many cases this has given rise to national champions, who are behind the world in the quality of their products and has caused the customers to suffer. For example consumers in India were stuck with outdated mechanical and electorincal products, until the controls were lifted and the market flooded with mostly Chinece produtcs. The consumers benefited and the local manufacturers were shaken badly.
In a similar way the Finnish government was stuck for years with a national government developed word processing program in the 1980's and early 1990's.
So from this point of view the Chinese government might be painting itself into a technology corner, potentially being stuck to an inferior product.
However the Chinese market is so huge that there is room for internal competition. Also software as a product has a tendency towards forming a monopoly, due to the high costs of entering the market and the low costs of replicating the product. So an occasional shaking of the emergent structure might well be justified.
We should also be asking how much the EU bureocracy is paying to Microsoft each year and how much could be saved by moving to Open Office.
It would be interesting to know if the Chinese directive is targeted only to office applications or if it applies to other software also. This could be a boon to the Chinese software industry in terms of ERP software, network managemet, CAD etc.
kiravuo
Hmm let us see:
Japan in July 2003 upped beef tarrifs to 50%
America pushed up Steel tarrifs recently, has massive subsidys for farmers.
Europe well their farm subsidys are ridiculous with some places in Ireland been better off not growing their crops with the subsidys offered.
So yeah obviously bad China, the only country in the world to use tariffs. BAD BAD BAD play fair no tariffs just like all those other countries in the world, oh wait there isnt any!!
As for banning people from certain countries, every country does that it is called a VISA and what happens is you simply do not let people in from the country you do not like.
37 - what does it stand for really...
China is a country of a billion people, with many diverse ethnic groups. It's a country undergoing massive changes, and the whole coutry is walking a tightrope, always at risk of falling apart or rampant corruption.
I doubt that the current Chinese government is the best possible for China, and they are certainly far from a democracy yet, but anybody claiming to know that they know better how to run China is either an idiot or an ideolog. It took Europeans hundreds of years and many bloody wars to become modern democracies. Americans had to commit genocide and institute centuries of slavery before finally waking up to ideas of human rights and equality. Give the Chinese a break--they aren't doing all that badly in comparison, they are just a little late.
Oh, and as for Microsoft, the Chinese are just watching out for their economic interests: nurturing domestic high-tech expertise is a good thing for them, and replacing Microsoft software with domestically developed software just makes sense.
When the entire Chinese government is using WPS Office, anyone doing business with the government will feel mighty encouraged to follow suit. Otherwise, how will they exchange documents?
This really depends on how open the file formats are. Back when Microsoft was fighting for the Office market, I started using Word because the import/export filters were so good that I could use Word as a translator between the several word processors that everyone was dealing with. It wasn't until they owned the market that they started being incompatible with everyone, including earlier versions of their own software.
I see nothing but good coming from this. With one of the world's largest countries using something else, Microsoft will be facing a lot of market pressure to make their file formats regular and available for conversion to other formats and clean up thir act on being able to import from other formats.
It's not always that simple when dealing with the Microsooft monopoly. Several years ago everyone in our office was running Word 95 and whatever the version of Excel was that came in the same Office package. Bill wanted more money and so came out with the next release of Office. I could see that no one in the office except my senior programmer and myself even understood that other 99% you mention (we had actually done some slick things with it). We determined there was no feature in the "upgrade" that would be of any use at all. I was able to avoid upgrading for quite a while, simply because there was absolutely no need for it. But it turned out there were idiots at the company headquarters who had upgraded (with no good reason) and were too damn stupid to save their documents in a format that our office could read. I wanted to fight it, but the order came from senior management (who didn't even use computers) that we had to upgrade all of our systems so we could exchange files with the HQ systems.
Do you start to understand how pervasive the MS monopoly and their closed file formats are?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
A new policy by China's governing body will rule that all ministries buy only locally-produced software at the next upgrade cycle.
They haven't banned foreign software per se, rather they have banned buying foreign software. It is an important distinction.
One Microsoft is enough!
That's a ridiculous assertion. The government will be using the Red Flag Linux OS, which is hardly going to create the next Microsoft.
Since I see a lot of common fears in the threads above, I'd like to reiterate that the news report was discussing that the Chinese government was in the process of upgrading to a new VERSION of the same software package. They haven't been using MS Office, and probably won't start soon. Not all parts of the government have to conform to this policy, special exceptions are allowed upon request.
This policy won't change how businesses or individuals in China have to operate, nor do we know if Hong Kong's government will have to change. China has entered the WTO, as of January 1st 2004 they are opening their market to free trade. A lot of the old intellectual property issues will be fixed over the next few years, mainland China is soon to become the biggest importer of British and American goods (by way of Hong Kong of course!)
Well, they'll have to make any version they want to sell in China compatible. But this doesn't mean that they'll include compatibility anywhere else.
The DVD companies aren't the only ones to use regional branding.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.