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Brazilian Rocket Explodes on Launch Pad

Posted by michael on from the try-try-again dept.

steman writes "BBC News Online says that 16 people have been killed and a Brazillian space rocket was destroyed in an explosion in Brazil. It seems that the space race is heating up again, with many countries getting involved such as China, Europe and Japan to name just three. Will the future of space exploration be dominated by names other than Russia and the USA?"

35 of 546 comments (clear)

  1. Since when... by ArchAngelQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is Europe just one contry? I'm all for conciceness, and yes, Europe is becoming peaceful and in many ways a single, strong political force, but the contries in Europe are far from being a single contry.

    1. Re:Since when... by sevenofnine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Though you dont need passports to cross boarders inside europe there is still a HUGE difference between this and declairing europe as one country!
      I have nothing in common with lets say someone from Italy other than currency and open boarders as an european.
      Culture and history defines my heritage and the only thing i have in common with you (a german) is again currency and open boarders.
      On my passport as a dane it says Danish citizen, not a citizen of european union....
      I live in finland, hench the euro as currency, some countries in the european union doesnt even have the euro (denmark, england). So i dont see how you can say Europe has become one country. Its like saying south america is one country because they are all tanned...

  2. Europe is a continent by brrrrrrt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can someone please change the insinuation in the text that Europe is a country? For heavens' sake, I thought it was just braindead American tourists that visit our "country" who thought this, not Slashdot editors.

    1. Re:Europe is a continent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And what's that supposed to mean?

      BBC was one of the few news broadcasters who provided a dissenting view on the war on Iraq. While CNN and FOX were showing footage of their gung-ho "in-bedded" reporters going in with the invad... eh, liberating troops, BBC was actually analyzing the righteousness of the war and paying attention to the civilian casualties. This, of course, provoked childish "Baghdad Broadcasting Corporation" quips from the US and pressure from the UK government, which only serves as a proof that BBC was hitting a sore spot.

      If you're referring to the row between Downing Street 10 and BBC and, more recently, the Hutton-inquiry where the case for war is getting ripped to shreds right now, you couldn't be more wrong.

      BBC has been shown to be consistently true in their reporting and the governments' (both UK, US and now Australia) lies have been exposed by the reporting. Journalism that brings down governments is the very best kind of journalism.

  3. Like, WTF? by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So. About a year ago, give or take a little, a NASA shuttle breaks apart and goes kaboom on re-entry. A couple of fucking big articles appear on slarshdot, it's like a national day of mourning is declared and shit. That's OK -- after all, people died and the US warmongering neo-conservative bureaucrat assholes got yet another reason to cut funding to space exploration and related technologies.

    But now, a Brazilian launch vehicle explodes, on the pad no less (think Challenger, only a bit sooner) and all those 16 dead people merit are one measly link, a couple of phrases in a slashdot heading (half of which is speculation about the future of missions to space from an unbelievably US-centric viewpoint) and not much else. Like, what the fuck?

    1. Re:Like, WTF? by Lshmael · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You claim Slashdot is Americentric (which it is, to an extent), but you fall into that trap yourself.
      A couple of fucking big articles appear on slarshdot, it's like a national day of mourning is declared and shit.

      Aren't national days of mourning (by their definition) national? And this is completely different from Challenger. Challenger was a shuttle meant to carry people into space. This is a rocket that carries satellites. Sure, it's horrible that people die, but there were technicans, not astronauts (no sex, no story...).

      Furthermore, I fail to see how the speculation in the original post is "US-centric." The very idea is that other countries (China, India, Brazil) are going into space. The US had a nice space program in the past. See the connection.

      Lastly, your "one measly link" comment. What links do you have that show extra information not covered in the BBC article?
    2. Re:Like, WTF? by orbbro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, it has to be said: This submission was incredibly insensitive.

      Interestingly, about as many people (~20) died in this Brazilian accident as died in the history of NASA events (17), according to this article.

      So, stemen is saying, in effect, Brazil just lost as many people as (or more than) NASA ever did, but let's ignore that and ridiculously speculate about the USA's future potential for space dominance.

      Sweet.

      --
      "It's an erotic, spectacular scene that captures the thrusting, violent, vibrant world Bohemian spirit..."
    3. Re:Like, WTF? by wheezl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think this illustrates how nationalistic space excursions are even to this day. Which futher illustrates how best to sell such space programs to the rest of the US. My first reaction was that 16 (update 20) technicians had died. They work on cool, sexy, and dangerous rockets. I work with UNIX, video, and industrial robots. My first reaction was "20 people a lot like me died today". Brazilian, Chinese, Indian, North American, Whomever......

      They probably didn't read Slashdot.. but those were our peeps that went down.

      That's the way to think about it.

      p.s. and no there will be no 8 hour special on any channel about what happened or who died. For one it happened in Brazil..... for another, the news media (and the general populace) doesn't give a rat's ass about the technicians.

      --
      -- oh.... so..... sleeeeeepy.
    4. Re:Like, WTF? by dipipanone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't care about them. THey're just 20 dead chunks of charred flotsam to me.

      Funny, that. A lot of people who feel the same way about those who perished in Manhattan a couple of years ago.

      It was attitudes like yours that persuaded those people that they had it coming.

      Go figure...

    5. Re:Like, WTF? by dipipanone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm just being honest.

      I don't doubt it. The problem is that attitudes like yours seems to be what shapes American foreign policy these days.

      Consequently, you shouldn't be too surprised when people feel that Americans are only any good for making dramatic statements to the world about how we're not gonna take it any more.

      After all, a large section of the world actually *does* care what happens to Americans.

      They'd like to see you all dead.

    6. Re:Like, WTF? by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      p.s. and no there will be no 8 hour special on any channel about what happened or who died

      There probably will be an 8 hour special, in Brazil. There was probably not an 8 hour special in Brazil about the loss of our shuttle. That is to be expected, not trashed. Its not unusual for a country to spend more time focusing on the loss of their own citizens. Because the US and Russia have the most experience in space, and pull off more missions, its not THAT unusual if they get more press, fair or not, its just they put people in space and so far Brazil hasn't.

      You are correct that the media doesn't really care about the technicians. Tech's are not sexy, they aren't "taking great risks" like astronauts...or you would have thought until now. This has more to do with astronauts being celebrities and the tech's not. This is not an exclusively American problem. Then again, the astronauts ARE the one's who are sitting on enough explosives to take out a small town, and the risk IS generally higher, on average. Since Brazil hasn't put anyone on top of a rocket, it hasn't generated the same interest...yet.

      Even the movie "Apollo 13" paid more attention to the astronauts, but at least it did put a heavy focus on the ground crew.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    7. Re:Like, WTF? by TGK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Millions die every year from cureable diseases because they can't afford the price the Western Nations set on the medications.

      Millions more die from starvation around the world because they live in countries where the equitable distribution of food isn't a concern to those in power.

      Yes, it's tragic that these people died in an accident in Brazil. I feel a great sence of sorrow for them and their families. Yet, lets not forget that these individuals who we're making such a big deal over are but a drop in the buckett compared to the millions who perish because we just don't give a shit.

      Don't play the "because people died" card. The world has proven countless times over it doesn't give a damn about the deaths of innocents. We're making a big deal over this because they died in an unexpected accident. If they'd starved to death or died horribly from tetnus the story wouldn't even be posted here.

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
  4. Furthermore by hhnerkopfabbeisser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since European carrier rockets are in their fifth generation now, I wouldn't consider them "news".

    Europe has sent things up into space for quite a while now...

  5. Space=Power by fredistheking · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It seems that most governments are realizing how important control of there own satellite based telecommunications/spying/surveilence, etc., has become.

  6. columbia by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The day columbia came down, I was talking to a friend of mine and for some reason it occurred to me (trying to cheer her up) to say "at least they pulled off a sucessful mission up to that point". It was just my way of trying to see the silver lining (and I still feel that way), but she glared at me like I was the most callous prick in the world.

    Sorry, but mankind will never achieve anything in space if we're not willing to sacrifice lives and money to get there. I salute the brave men and women with the courage and the talent to go, especially these Brazilians who have the balls to keep trying these dangerous satellite launches under a new space program.

  7. Sympathies by ndogg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My sympathies to the families.

    These things are essentially big bombs. No matter how many tests people do, there is always the slight possibility that something like this can happen. Hopefully they'll be able to find the cause and work on that for their next launch.

    Competition is a good motivator, and hopefully this will motivate other countries to go up into space.

    --
    // file: mice.h
    #include "frickin_lasers.h"
  8. To The Future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Will the future of space exploration be dominated by names other than Russia and the USA?

    If anyone else has the technological and financial backbone to fund space programs, then certainly other countries/continents will be major players in the decades to come.

    It's certainly a positive that governments besides the U.S. and Russia are willing to go into space. Hopefully this Brazilian explosion won't setback their program too much.

  9. Sympathy by Stonent1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just wanted to express my sympathies to the family and friends of those who lost their lives. To quote President Reagan when he spoke to the nation about the Challenger shuttle explosion, "The future doesn't belong to the faint-hearted; it belongs to the brave."

  10. What Space Race? by PingXao · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The space race is hardly heating up in the commercial arena. Boeing recently canceled their Delta IV program due to a lack of customers in the commercial satellite business. They wrote off almost a billion dollars. To wit:

    However, over the last several years demand for commercial launches eroded while global launch capacity increased. In light of the continuing severe downturn in the commercial launch market, the company has determined that a meaningful recovery of demand and pricing is unlikely for the foreseeable future.

    I'm hoping the Chinese have some serious success in their announced manned space program. Perhaps that will incentivize the U.S. to get off their butts and start doing some serious exploration.
  11. Re:Why by Gleng · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of all the egotistical, ethnocentric bullshit.

    "Other countries" (read: the rest of the populated world) wish to develop space programmes because of the huge benefits one brings to the economy and scientific development of the country envolved. Amongst the fact that a space programme gives a country's citizens something to hope and dream about.

    Not to "feel on par with the USA".

    For fuck's sake.

    --
    "Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
  12. Yes by Smartcowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Will the future of space exploration be dominated by names other than Russia and the USA?"

    In a word: yes.

    We see more and more countries involved in space exploration. USA and Russia are not the only players anymore.

    Russia is out of money so they can't have ambitious project.

    USA are founding the NASA less and less. This is a pity. Maybe this will change in the future. If it happen, USA will make a comeback in space exploration

    Now many countries want to do space exploration and are willing to trow money in it. This is a good thing because this will speed up the space exploration race. But USA will now have competition not only from russia but from many country.

    What will be real great is when there will be private corporation involved in space exploration. Anyone could think of a business model involving space exploration?

  13. A good sign by qorkfiend · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The more countries that sign on, the better. Space exploration, limited to one or two countries, or those who control the ballot, is doomed to die. Will we succumb to Space: the Highest Bidder? or will it be: Space Whoever Gets There First?

    I personally bet on Who Gets There First.

  14. Re:Hahaha.. pathetic.. by qorkfiend · · Score: 2, Insightful

    5 seconds. Americans (speaking as one) always choose brute force when finesse would suffice.

  15. Re:Offtopic: not a country - yet by JanneM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And extrapolating current trends, you don't object to calling the US, Mexico and Canada one country either?

    There are a lot of resistence towards too much integration in Europe; not surprising, what with the large cultural, political and linguistic differences. If Europe ever coalesces into one state, it will take quite a lot more than one or two generations. More likely, this will never fully happen.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  16. Re:Yes and no by amcguinn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had that in mind, but I was under the impression that they could not be sent out of the country (except in the capacity of US Army reserves under federal command). Was I mistaken? If Texas could have chosen to send troops in support of Argentina in 1982, for instance, without US govt approval, then my example was bad.

  17. Europe is in Space for Decades by nniillss · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Europe is not one of many countries getting involved. It is a continent and union of countries with a very successfull commercial space program: ESA. Ariane 1 started in 1979; Ariane 4 was just discontinued after 113 (out of 116) successfull launches with payloads up to 4700 kg. 19 percent of customers for Ariane 4 were from the US. Brazil is trying to get into a business (satellite launches) in which the US, Russia, and Europe are for decades.

    History of Ariane 4

  18. Re:Space Station by delong · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Really ducks the whole point. Which part of International Space Station means "United States has to bear the brunt of the cost."

    The United States has contributed an inordinate amount of time and treasure for that White Elephant, as is the usual case with anything International.

    Derek

  19. Congratulations to Brazil by raahul_da_man · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I congratulate them on daring to step beyond this little world and dare something new. It failed, but that is no reason to give up. They have an equatorial launch site, enough money and trained technicians to do more.

    Humanity will never reach space unless it is attempted by multiple nations. Their technicians should be on the roll call of heroes who died to give us Space. I envy them what they did with their lives.

  20. Why is space race strategicly important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why was Sputnik's space flight important in the fifties?

    Because if you can reach orbit it means you can also send a missile into ballistic trajectory and deliver a payload (read: warhead) anywhere aroud the globe, including US.

    SDI defence did not work in the 1980's, and there's nothing to indicate it will work in this time either.

    Everytime some country develops orbital capabilities it means that it is much more difficult to exert military pressure against them. One can of course b*tch, moan and call them names.

  21. it's a shame... by dangil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... but none will remember the names of those brave 20 Brazillian rocket scientists who died today... and they had to work on much worst conditions than every other american / european / japanese scientist... Brazil does not expends tons of cash on space exploration like those other countries does... so they deserv much more respect.... they had to love their job... really...

    everyone remembers the name of those "brave american explorers", but everybody forgets those "poor bastars down there".....

    and yes, I live in Brasil.. BRASIL ... not Brazil... BRASIL...

    - Orgulho de ser Brasileiro!!! - Ouviram do Ipiranga as margens placida de um povo heroico um brado retumbante...

  22. Re:Europe is NOT a continent by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What is the definition of "continent"? If is is merely that you can walk across it on land, then Africa is also part of the same continent (or was before the Suez Canal was built), and so too were North and South America (before the Panama canal was built). It is merely that it's an island? How big of one? Why is Australia a continent, but Greenland is just an island of North America? Where is the official cutoff mark in terms of land area, or how narrow an isthmus has to be (such as Panama or the connection between Egypt and Asia) to consider landmasses to be separate? Is there one? No. My point is that *all* designations of continents are arbitrary made-up terms, not just the strange decision to split Europe from Asia. There is no such thing as the concrete definition of what is a continent. It's all arbitrary.

    --

    Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

  23. Disgusting by seldolivaw · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The callousness of this headline. Compare and constrast:

    Shuttle Columbia breaks up, killing 7. Several Slashdot articles, tons of coverage. Department: "we grieve".

    Brazillian rocket explodes, killing 21. A single slashdot article, small articles in the world press. Department: "try, try again"??

    Have some respect, FFS.

  24. Re:Brasil - MY country by dangil · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I will not let you say those things about my country
    I am a true Brazillian
    I know the truth about Brazil
    yes, we have flaws, but we have strenghts too.. our space program is the most cost efective EVER.. we spent a fraction of what other countries have spent and accomplished great things

    we don't have money to toss around like those world dominators up there... so we have to do it right, because we can't make mistakes

    accidents happen... and I WILL NOT LET YOU BLAME YOUR FLAWED PERCEPTION OF MY COUNTRY BE THE EXPLANATION OF THE CAUSES OF THIS ACCIDENT

    oh yes, I could say Columbia went bye-bye because US is a deorganized bunch of hamburgers eaters, and that they were lazy and overconfident, and forgot to check the thermal isolation on the wing... but I know that accidents happen. and we are humans, and humans make mistakes

    so, SHUT UP,
    I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND I WILL NOT LET YOU SAY STUPID SHIT ABOUT MY BIRTHPLACE

    and now, some history class : the whole latin america was EXPLORED from the get go.. spanish and portuguese explorers came here, and took everything we had... wood, gold, minerals, everything... and a bunch of idiots from england dominated us for centuries robbing our money, and our economical and political independency.

    with the US the colonization process was totally different. the explorers wanted a true colony. they came to the US to build a new country, and not to rob all the gold from the land.

    so, if Brazil and other latin american ( and asian and african ) countries have economical and social dificulties there is only one we can blame : EUROPE. but not today's europe. 1500 europe and their ways...

    but think about something.. the same think europeans did from 1500 to 1800 US is doing now, exploring other countries and other people

    an example : in the 1800s, Paraguay was a GREAT , RICH country. so great and rich that it was threatening England ! so england financed a war and created reasons (remember the US report on Iraq weapons ? ) so Brazil could fight Paraguay. the war that destroied Paraguay and made Brazil forever knee deep in debts ...

    please, learn some history people... it's a 500 year old problem...

  25. Re:Yes and no by amcguinn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I shouldn't really rise to this troll, but...

    There are a good number of different reasons for the EU to exist. In the first place, it was set up, with American support, to lock in wavering european countries to capitalism in the face of the Eastern Bloc. Remember that Italy and France, for instance, had very large and powerful communist parties from the post-war period up until the fall of the USSR. Holding them in a free trade area was intended to prevent them joining the communist bloc.

    The second reason was to prevent or control any ambition to territorial ambition by Germany. The Germans were as keen as anyone on this: they did, and to a considerable extent still do, see the EU as safeguarding them from going down the same path as in the 1930s

    A third reason, in more recent years, has been to build a new superpower to prevent the world from becoming American dominated. This is a particular obsession of the French. Britain has never been much interested with this - having been a superpower previously, Britain is not particularly keen on being a bit-part player in a new one. If you want to describe Britain's unwillingness to define its whole foreign policy in terms of starting a new cold war against a country that on most things it more or less agrees with as "lack of backbone", so be it.

    On the same point, I don't think it makes any more sense to describe the Blair govt's support for the Iraq war as "bowing [to] the US", as it does to describe France's opposition as bowing to Iraq. Both governments made the decision based on what they thought was right and what they thought was in their national interests. In my opinion, both of them were wrong, but that is two other arguments.

    It is important to note that many British people are much more distrustful of, and feel much more threatened by, the France-Germany axis than by the USA. I have no inside knowledge of how Danes or Poles feel, but in the case of the eastern European countries, I wouldn't be surprised if they saw the USA as their strong ally against threats from Russia, and France/Germany as weak and unreliable.

    Lastly, it's important to distinguish between popular opinion from government policy. UK opinion was never very supportive of the Iraq war, but Tony Blair in my opinion geniunely belived he was bringing rightness and justice to the world (God help us!). On the other hand, I think you would find popular opinion in Germany opposes European monetary union and closer EU integration, but the political establishment has other views.

  26. Re:The Republic of Texas.... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "Actually Texas is a odd case, as It CAN secede,"

    You seem to be ignoring that whole 1861-1865 bit.

    "It can also split itself into up to 5 states."
    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
    It can't just split up all by itself for no reason, Congress has to give it the green light as well. To my knowledge, the only times something like that have happened were with Maine and Vermont (suggesting that Texas isn't the "special case" you seem to believe it is). West Virginia is something of a special case, being part of that aforementioned 1861-1865 time period.

    Oh, and by the way, Alaska is bigger.