Why Virus Writers are Useful

man_of_mr_e writes "Security site Zone-h.org has an interview with Professor Samuel D. Forrester, one of the worlds leading immunologists. In this interview he asserts that immunity is built by infection, and without it you would have a much weaker ecosystem. "

Comments

Re:So by extension...

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind that some diseases (most notably cancer) are not caused by either virus or bacteria

Rather offtopic but FYI 'Breast cancer virus' found

"virii" is not a word!!

[Anonymous Coward]

For all that is holy, the plural of "virus" is "viruses."

Re:"virii" is not a word!!

[div_2n]

Perhaps any and all that believe that should read this:

http://www.perl.com/language/misc/virus.html

Uh, yes

[2nd Post!]

You want some analogies?
Computers have varying levels of protection: We, administrators, play the role of t-cells, white blood cells, and macrophages.

So a computer 'ecosystem' is like a lan or a network; or even the internet. So the immune response? Train the users not to click attachments. Install firewalls. Install filters. Install anti-virus programs. Install patches.

Don't forget that systems aren't static! Windows Update, patches, new holes, etc, are 'discovered' and 'sealed' in organic, not deterministic, fashion. Likewise as new systems are brought into the network, they will/should have greater protection, according to patches, newer users with 'learned' behavior from prior attacks, and newer software.

You can't treat a computer network separate from the users, else you can't take into account trojans!

Text

[phuqwit]

Why computer virus writers are useful and we should thank them.

SyS64738
08/25/2003

The title is obviously a provocation. I am considered a balanced personality but sometimes, I like to stretch things to the extreme and to provoke reactions. This article is one of my rare attempts to provoke you... or not?

Today, after the alarm caused by the fast diffusion of the Sobig virus, we are all talking about the reasons why virus writers are coding more and more viruses.

"They should stop, somebody stop them!" I hear all the time but... is this right?

We try to answer to this question with an interview with Professor Samuel D. Forrester, one of the most famous immunologists in the world. Dr. Forrester is on the run this year to get the Nobel Prize for his recent discovery of the mechanisms of aggression of over-reacting immune cells and antibodies. He teaches at the Immunology faculty at the Konigsberg University since 1986.

Zone-H: ZH

Professor Samuel D. Forrester: SDF

ZH: Thanks for having accepted to release an interview to Zone-H

SDF: Thank you, even if it is quite unusual to be interviewed by a computer security website.

ZH: Dr. Forrester, can you tell us what is the branch of the immunology?

SDF: Immunology is the study of the complex and sophisticated immune system. The immune system is a network of cells and organs that work together to defend the body against attacks by "foreign" invaders or germs. The body provides an excellent environment for germs. When they do break into a system, it is the immune system's job to keep them out or to seek and destroy them.

ZH: What is the job of the immunologist?

SDF: Clinical immunologists research new tests and treatments involving allergic and immunologic disorders of the immune system. They work with physicians in general practice and in hospital-based specialties to treat diseases using complex and sophisticated clinical techniques. The science of clinical immunology is a fast developing area of the medical profession. The role of the immunologist is increasingly important, both in laboratory work and in patient care.

ZH: Have you heard about the recent Sobig-F virus deployment?

SDF: Yes, I read something on the newspapers. Even if computer science is not my science, the topic of the computer viruses is obviously of my interest. See, many aspects of the traditional immunology and the computer viruses are in common.

ZH: And this is the reason why Zone-H wanted this interview.... Dr. Forrester, what do you think about computer viruses, what do you know about them?

SDF: Computer viruses are exactly like the normal viruses. They can kill you if your immune system doesn't work, but at the same time, your body should thank them if your immune system is today capable to protect you from deadly illnesses.

ZH: Can you please develop the concept?

SDF: It's simple: every time you get a cold, you sneeze. But you could die, actually. The only reason why you don't die is because your immune system has been programmed to react to the "threat" posed by a germ. It's a paradox, but it's the same germ that could kill you that trained your immune system to react when invaded.

ZH: And what makes the difference? How is it possible that a germ can kill you and the same germ can train your immune system making you stronger?

SDF: It's just a matter of doses. Like with wine, one glass every day makes your heart stronger and lowers your blood pressure, one bottle every day can kill you. This is the concept on which vaccines are based.

ZH: We understand that. Can we stretch the concept saying that a constant flow of germs, if received in the proper dose, makes the body actually stronger?

SDF: Absolutely. If hypothetically we could take two newborn twins and put one of them under a glass-dome and the other one straight into the dangers of the real world, guess who would survive in case of a serious plague?

ZH: The

Re:So by extension...

[rootofevil]

so then your view is that happiness comes from suffering? how very puritanical (in the religious sense) of you. white without black is still white, similarly is happiness truly happiness without negative to contrast it.

insult to injury

[segment]

SDF: Well, when Internet was borne, viruses already existed, I remember I got a Pong virus on my AT computer. By that time people were already talking about producing anti-virus software. Today Pong, is not anymore a threat as all ?trained computers? (read: with an anti-virus installed) are immune from it. In this view, the only way to make a complicate system strong, is to train it with a constant flow of threats. It might seem a paradox but this is how it is.

This is definitely an outrageous statement coming from a professional. Consider that viruses that humans get as opposed to computer viruses, are not created. Now we all know that some have been created, but not to the extent of computer viruses. How responsible would it be for the Center for Disease Control to create viruses unleash them with the monicker "Hey we did it for your immune system. Is this guy insane. Remember that people rely on electricity, so stop to think about all of the emergency rooms that had no power. Stop to think about surgeons in the middle of surgery who had power zapped on them due to a virus.

ZH: So you are saying that virus writers have their own role in the Internet system.

SDF: Absolutely.

This leads me to believe that some of these scientist create viruses and unleash them to the general public. Anytime I see this guy's name mentioned anywhere near the word government I would hope he is not under contract with them in any shape fashion or form for his lack of ethics.

To think virus writers have a purpose is the most ludicrous statement I've heard to date. Does this moron have a clue as to how much money companies spend in downtime due to some e-diots writing shit nobody wants on their systems. Does this e-diot have any idea how much time admins have to spend fixing machines, not to mention software developers working double time for a fix. What the hell is the net coming to?

Umm, you're confused.

[rrkap]

You don't use flouride to kill bacteria in water. It is added as a form of mass medication to prevent tooth decay. Bacteria and other nasties in tap water are usually killed by chlorine or ozone (although there are other ways it can be done, such as using UV). Over chlorination is usually avoided because it makes the water taste bad, is hazardous if you REALLY overdo it, and because it is a waste of money. Too much ozone is hard on pipes. Too much flouride kills people with weak kidneys (well, actually if you get the levels high enough, it will kill anyone, but that's way above the level used in municipal water systems).

Re:He's kind-of wrong anyway

[Psyx]

"Immunity is exposed by infection. It isn't created out of thin air as needed."

Immunity to computer viruses/worms and the ilk is indeed created/coded as soon as the susceptibility is detected. Sometimes that happens before an infection, sometimes it happens afterwards.

So yes, infection can expose immunity, but it can also lead to the purposeful creation of immunity (immunization). For example: if smallpox didn't previously exist, would a vaccine have been developed against it? I doubt it. Then again, in that case, one could argue that the intelligence of the smallpox susceptible population had the effect of making them immune.

Finally, since I can't read the Slashdotted site, I can only go from the tagline. It mentions building immunity, not creating it. Removing the susceptible parts of the population does build immunity in the population as a percentage.

The Black Plague....

[lysium]

Some towns cleaned up the sewers, and the water systems and killed off as many rats as they could find, those towns did relatively well during the plague. There were other towns that were convinced that the plague was sent by God (and maybe it was) and refused to clean or do anything about it, and those towns were wiped from the map.

Cats were considered to be small demons by the excessively-Chrisitan (and excessively stupid), and routinely killed. This allowed the rats (and thus, the plague) to spread unchecked. Delightfully ironic -- who in this case was doing Satan's work, the cats, or the cat-killers?

========

Viruses IS correct!- Dorlands Medical Dictionary

[spineboy]

There is no listing for virii, but Dorlands Medical dictionary (probably one of the most widely used ones), lists viruses as the plural of virus. There is no medical word virii. I have never heard any of my medical co-workers use virii - we all use viruses.

Re:He's kind-of wrong anyway

[ravenousbugblatter]

"immunity is exposed by infection. It isn't created out of thin air as needed."

Wrong. That's exactly the way our immune systems work in some ways. The body has innate immunity against certain germs i.e. the immunity exists before the germ even infects.

Unfortunately I don't think we yet have anti-virus software like this yet, specifically, software that could predict what a virus might look like (work like) and then make a patch for it before it even exits. I bet software like this is created in less than a decade though. probably less than a few years...

Re:That's very true

[tgibbs]

When I was a baby and a kid, my parents let me walk on the floor naked, put things in my mouth and all things that most parents shriek at.

One proposed explanation for the rising incidence of asthma is that parents don't let their kids do this so much anymore (or they clean their floors with disinfectants). The notion is that your immune system is evolved to deal with a certain level of attack. If it doesn't find enough invaders, it "figures" that it just isn't trying hard enough, and cranks up the volume until it starts going crazy over every mite and speck of pollen.

Re:So if I understand well...

[DavidTC]

We know how the plague was spread, it was spread by fleas. The question is what the fleas were travelling on.

But, yes, the idea of rats travelling from town to town to spread the plague is fairly surreal, as rats don't do that. Only one animal is stupid enough to do that.

But rats certainly spread the plague in towns, long with dogs, horses, and goats. remember that rats were basically considered pets at the time.