Slashdot Mirror


Perfect Pitch for Those Without It

airrage writes "Sometimes technology is a good thing, and sometimes it ends up in a hardware device called an autotuner. Apparently, it allows real-time pitch correction. They are actually being used at concerts. I think we all realize that some singers sound different -- much different -- live than they do on CD's, but this just seems so, so, what's the word: fake?"

11 of 776 comments (clear)

  1. Recordings? Yes. Performances? No. by talexb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can see using a tool like this to get the perfect studio recording -- especially after getting a great take with just a few bum notes.


    Using it during a performance, however, is just cheesy. Learn to sing in tune, please.


  2. What would you rather pay for... by alfal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A concert where the artist sounds great, or a concert where the artist sounds terrible? If I pay $50 per seat, I'd like to hear something I'll enjoy, whether it is slightly modified or not. Bad music isn't fun.

    1. Re:What would you rather pay for... by jared_hanson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd suggest you save $35 dollars and buy a CD, which you can also listen to over and over again. Concerts are intended for live music. I enjoy hearing the artist in their true form.

      I've been to concerts where the singer has forgotten lyrics, or sung a wrong verse. It's part of the experience, and seeing how the singer reacts shows more depth than you will get by hearing something that is perfect all the time.

      The world is not perfect, so don't expect perfection from a concert.

      --
      -- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
  3. Autotune is THE DEVIL! by mjprobst · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone who thinks that notes can and should be limited to the 12 chromatic pitches of the equal-tempered music system is full of crap. Read a good book on the history of tuning systems. I can detect an autotune-processed track within seconds of hearing it, due to the utter piano-like lack of pitch sensitivity and expression.

    The saddest of sad is when you hear autotune processing on the voice of an artist who understands how to use the many subtleties of pitch, yet bows to the record company execs by submitting to the autotuner.

  4. You can hear it by micromoog · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It's actually pretty easy to detect when one is being used:

    1. Think about that Cher song from a couple years ago with the "robot voice" effect (also used in that slow Kid Rock song).
    2. Listen for a slightly more subtle version of the same effect in pop music, especially in vocal parts with a lot of fast movement over large intervals.
    3. Realize that, since the effect was used in the studio, the singer couldn't get the song right even one time. In fact, they couldn't even sing that one passage right one time (in studios, singers routinely redo just a short phrase and "punch it in" with the rest of the track).
    4. Put your radio on NPR for good.
  5. If you don't have it... by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...Don't fake it.

    I don't care if people want to "fix" their errors on an album, that doesn't bother me - I can accept an album as a "finished" work of art and enjoy its (presumeably enhanced) merits regardless of the unenhanced talents of the musician (or composer, where that differs from the performer).

    However, I go to concerts to see the "raw" work, with no enhancements. If an artist lacks the talent to actually reproduce their work (within reason) in that environment, they should not tour. Simple as that. Selling me the same thing I could have on CD (minus the masses of sweating fans packed in like sardines, $3.50 pints of Aquafina, and idiots who consider a concert a good place for impromptu karaoke) for about $80 less (per pair) does not make me happy.


    As an (almost) unrelated aside, another concert peeve of mine - Volume. I went to a concert this past weekend (Tori Amos in Boston) where the performer did well, the set list appealed to me, and the environment in general seemed just about perfect. However, even with earplugs (a must for anyone who actually goes to concerts to enjoy the music), they had the volume cranked so high that the bass completely distorted everything else (as in, I could audibly detect clipping of the vocals at every new bass note or percussive event). This does NOT make for satisfied (much less "happy") concert-goers.

  6. Big Label productions by Wumpus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's a related read. It's long, but very entertaining. Of special interest is the hilarious account of how the drum tracks for an entire album were edited at great expense, because the drummer couldn't play the drums to save his life.

  7. Re:Who cares? by ramk13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I get really tired of the 'everything popular is crap' line used on /. in just about every music related post.

    Just because something is popular doesn't mean it not good music. Just because someone is popular doesn't mean that they necessarily will have a bad stage show or use vocal enhancements. Those types of assumptions are close minded in typical /. fashion. Judging a musician based on popularity is stupid whether you are a Clear Channel junkie or an indie elitest.

    Just listen to the music. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. If you can't handle the artists political affiliation or record label, that's fine too. But don't bash something just because other people like it. It's almost as if people need to feel special by listening to music that isn't popular.

    [rant off]

  8. Uh, no. by Shenkerian · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Perfect pitch (aka absolute pitch) is not at all required for "absolute mastery" of music, and can even be a hindrance.

    When you're singing or playing in an ensemble that's out of absolute tune but in tune with itself, you have the unpleasant choice of staying in absolute tune and going out of tune with the group or adjusting and hearing things out of tune, which is jarring.

    For a simpler example, imagine trying to improvize in C on a clarinet and hearing the music in Bb. Now that's jarring.

    Unbelievably good relative pitch is required for "absolute mastery" of music. Perfect pitch is just a party trick.

    --
    You tell me how "whilst" differs from "while," and I'll stop calling you a pretentious jackass.
  9. I hate it by WebMasterJoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd be embarrassed to use this sort of thing. If you can't sing/play on key, on command, you don't belong on the stage. Being a real musician is hard work, and that means you perform when you are supposed to. And you do a damn good job at it, every time. And if you aren't in the mood, or you're upset, or whatever, you do it anyway. If you're going to use a safety net like this, you may as well lip-sync to the studio track.

    I know this sounds like a harsh approach, but that's the world of the professional musician. I have to question the work ethic of a musician who would need something like this. If you were the leader a band (especially one wth 12+ members), would you want the singer to have a special little box "just in case" he/she made a mistake? I'd rather get a singer who is confident he/she won't make those mistakes. There are more musicians than gigs, so to make it, you have to be there whenever they ask, and don't fuck up.

    Pop stars are obviously a different matter, thought. They are much more glamorous, and typically less talented and don't work as hard as the pro musician. They are tossed into a studio to record the next "hit" written by a room full of boring-looking writers, quickly whisked away to a dance studio where the star is yelled at for hours until he/she can dance like a rock star, then a bus takes the soon-to-be-one-hit-wonder around the country while Clearchannel plays the hell out of the new song. This is the kind of person who needs a safety net like that. This is not the kind of person who spent years writing and practicing, accepting any gig that came along, playing to sometimes empty clubs, sometimes double-booking rather than turning down a gig, and driving for five hours to play a four-hour gig. While that may sound like hell to the non-musicians out there, it is exactly the kind of experience that most real musicians go through, and if it weren't for the genuine love of music, nobody would do it. But through that process, the musician learns a lot of discipline, and is ready to sight-read through forty charts with a band full of strangers. Ask the musician if he/she needs a device like this.

    --
    I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
  10. Re:hey, wait a minute by Doc+Hopper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most singers have imperfect pitch. I'd go so far as to say *every* singer does. Your brain corrects pitch generally to a Pythagorean scale (perfect intervals at fifths and octaves, with the third exactly one-half way between the fundamental and fifth). If you listen to an accappella choir, they will nearly always gravitate toward this scale. The unfortunate side effect of a Pythagorean scale is that if the tune changes to another key, it sounds simply awful. Choirs can get away with this because they adjust their tuning on-the-fly to still sound good with one another when doing key changes.

    Pianos, guitars, and many other instruments have a great deal of trouble with this. You'd have to rearrange the fretboard on a guitar to avoid (nearly) even-temperament, and the piano requires a skilled tuner at least 10 minutes or so to adjust. Thus most people are accustomed to hearing something as "in-tune" only when it is performed to an even-tempered scale.

    This fights the vocalists natural ability to judge tune based on harmonic interaction with the rest of the song.

    As a recording artist, I make regular use of pitch correction. You'll find that virtually every major artist commercial artist does, as well. The "effect" you refer to is often called the "Cher Effect" from the song, "Life After Love", where they intentionally used pitch correction to the extreme. Most uses are quite subtle, and are most often used to smooth out the rough edges in a once-in-a-lifetime recording.

    It's possible to pitch-correct large variations in performance (bringing, say, a C to a G) but they sound increasingly unnatural the further you move the note from reality. The human ear is very closely attuned to variations from normal speech and singing patterns. That's why a sped-up playback of a tenor doesn't sound like a soprano -- it sounds like a sped-up tenor.

    Anyway, get used to pitch correction. It's been in common use for over fifteen years on commercial recordings, but only recently has the technology become cheap enough that it's accessible to live performance and lower-end home recording artists. It's no more "BS" than a motion picture studio rigging cameras up for "bullet time", trapeze artists using a net, or stuntmen playing body doubles for stars in a motion picture. It's the ultimate quality of the performance that matters, and whatever you can do to bring the quality up a notch is probably a good thing.

    Some artists thrive due to their "natural" sound. That's great for them. The rest of us enjoy technology's ability to make our lives more fun, interesting, and better-sounding.