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The Economist Contrasts American, European Patent Approaches

fiannaFailMan writes "The Economist has summarised recent developents in software patents and contrasts the American and European approaches. 'The European Commission wants to avoid the American situation, in which case law drives authorities to issue computer-related patents all too easily, in particular for business methods and algorithms.'"

48 of 205 comments (clear)

  1. On the other side of the pond by CGP314 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's reasons like this that I moved to London.

    People is Europe know and care about issuses like patent law and copyrights. No one in the States (outside of slashdotters) has a clue.

    1. Re:On the other side of the pond by CGP314 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, I'm sure software patents made you move to London.

      Stupid patent/copyright laws, the department of homeland security, total^H^H^H^H^H terrorist information awareness, patriot act, patriot act II, and cute girls with British accents made me move to London.

    2. Re:On the other side of the pond by slipgun · · Score: 5, Informative

      Stupid patent/copyright laws, the department of homeland security, total^H^H^H^H^H terrorist information awareness, patriot act, patriot act II, and cute girls with British accents made me move to London.

      There is a lot of authoritarian crap going on in America at the moment I agree, but have you any idea how much power the authorities here (UK) have? Under the Terrorism Act 2000 the Police are allowed to break up a meeting of three or more people without *any* sort of court order if they believe it is for terrorist purposes. There are cameras everywhere. The authorities (Police, Customs, Inland Revenue and a few others) can see who you've been emailing without a court order (RIP Act 2000). There's talk of introducing a compulsory ID card (smuggled in through the back door as an 'entitlement card'). I hope you don't drive or smoke, because you'll pay through the nose for it (unless you bring it in from abroad). But this is turning into a rant, so I'll stop now. And yes, I like our girls very much as well.

      --
      SpamNet - a spam blocker that really works
    3. Re:On the other side of the pond by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cute girls in London???? Are you sure you're in the right city? ;-)

    4. Re:On the other side of the pond by rking · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've never quite understood what's so horribly wrong with a compulsory ID?

      I'm not sure there is any intrinsic problem with one.

      In the UK it's partly a cultural thing. We had them in World War II I think, and destroying them afterwards was a sign of things returning to normality. Bringing them back sounds like a backwards step.

      Also, successive governments have come up with spurious arguments for why we should have one, which makes everyone suspicious and uneasy.

      It's a bit like the Intel processor ID thing: there's no problem with the idea in principle but when they come out with that rubbish about it being to aid internet shopping people get nervous wondering what the real reason was and why they were lying about it.

      Mostly the UK Government has tried to claim that having an ID card would reduce crime but then refuse to say what crimes (bank robberies? murders? pickpocketings?) and how.

      For situations where evidence of ID is desirable, it isn't that hard to require some (which I'll admit is one reason for saying that an ID card can't do any harm in itself). There's a cost issue as well, though that isn't a reason people would usually react so negatively.

    5. Re:On the other side of the pond by doktor-hladnjak · · Score: 2
      In Scandinavian countries and in Germany (I think) you already have to have a social security number and the ID card to prove it in order to get a bank account or deal with the tax office (ie. get a legal job), for instance.

      I could be wrong, but I think this is even true in the US. You certainly need to show valid identification to open a bank account or to get paid for a job. For a job, I'm fairly certain you are required to show proof of a social security number as well (ie, the social security card) for tax purposes. This might be necessary for a bank account too (they do report the interest you earn on an account to the tax authorities I think).

      I've always found the aversion to mandatory ID requirements strange, since in the current situation, you can't really live any sort of normal life without some form of government identification (ie, state driver's license or ID card).

      I'm currently living in Germany, where you are required by law to carry ID (national ID for EU citizens, passport for everybody else) after some age (13?). The police can ask you to show your ID for any reason at any time, which to Americans just seems creepy. The strange thing is that the only person I know that was asked to show ID was Canadian (he implied that Canada was similar to the US on being required to show ID). At the time, he didn't have the ID on him, but offered to go back to his apartment with the cop to get it. The cop just gave him a verbal warning saying that he should always carry his ID, but it was ok this time.

      This really gave me the impression that German police are much less likely to abuse this power. I just have the feeling that an American cop would (if he felt like being nice) have gone back to the apartment or (if he felt like being a jerk) have taken you back to the station to hold you until somebody else could bring your ID.

      Maybe why we are so apprehensive about allowing a compulsory ID and police the power to enforce it, is because a lot of Americans don't trust cops to regulate their own power.

    6. Re:On the other side of the pond by TheTimoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      after some age (13?)
      You get issued your Personalausweis (Personal Identity card) at the age of 16.
      I remember a friend being checked when he didn't have his on him one time. In the middle of the night, in the middle of the forest. what else are a couple of young guys gonna do besides drugs, right?
      anyway they asked him what his name was and where he lived, ran a check on him, and everything was alright. As the parent said, the police in general are much more relaxed about stuff like that here, than what I was used to in the states.

      --
      "Be careful or be roadkill" - Calvin
    7. Re:On the other side of the pond by rking · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do believe it does prevent crime to some extend.

      Could you explain how this happens? I'm not saying it isn't true, I'm honestly interested in knowing how it is supposed to work.

      Is it because you are asked to show your ID card so often that if you do commit a crime and then flee the crime scene that someone who saw you will have a record of who you are and be able to track you down? That's the only scenario I've been able to dream up so far in which it could have an impact and it doesn't sound very plausible, are you rally showing your ID every 5 minutes?

    8. Re:On the other side of the pond by The_DOD_player · · Score: 2, Interesting

      :)

      Obviusly it wont work in the way you discribe.

      Take ecomonic crime like insurance fraud, tax evation or cheating with social security. Well, for you to do anything with money, you have to have a bank account. Since you cant open a bank account without your CPR, all financial transactions you make can be traced back to you via your CPR-number with ease.

      Take missing persons. Often when a person is missing, tracing is easier because all credit cards, drivers license, health care are linked to your CPR number.

      So its not so much the card it self, as it is the CPR-number that on it, that matters.

      Most of this can be done without a CPR system, but its more convinient both for common people and the authorities with this system.

      Its not like you have to show this card every other day. I cant remember that I ever shown my latest card to anyone, since I recieved it more than half a year ago. In most cases your credit card or drivers license will do for identification.

    9. Re:On the other side of the pond by DGolden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with the cameras in my book is not that they exist, but that real-time access to their data is often limited to a select few (though theoretically one can request the footage under FoI, it usually takes months, and there's therefore plenty of time for the authorities to doctor the tapes)

      If all the cameras were required to be public-access webcams, there would not be an inequality of information flow - it is the fact the authorities have so much more information than the man on the street that in part gives them the power. i.e. the watched can't watch the watchers. Remember, in big brother, big brother could see you, but you couldn't see it.

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    10. Re:On the other side of the pond by jadavis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, in the U.S. you need a lot of ID (including SSN) to get a bank account, a credit card, or a job (you don't always need it to get a job though, but most you do).

      I think that most American cops would behave the same way. You can actually get away with a lot here unless you're rude to the cop. I still don't like the idea that a cop could ask for ID at any time though. I think it's for the same reason US citizens don't like to be searched without a warrent (or probable cause, depending on situation).

      Theoretically, nobody should mind a search if they've done nothing bad. However, Americans are generally the type of people to break a law if it doesn't seem wrong to do so. For instance, people under 21 years old drink here all the time, even though it's illegal (I read s statistic that at least 20% of alcohol consumption is by people under 21). So, I wouldn't want a cop asking for my ID at that time! I think there are some instances that they can anyway, but I think they have to have probable cause. Same with searches, I wouldn't want a cop to search my car if I'm pulled over for speeding, and then see alcohol. They can look in an see if it's in plain sight, but they can't make me to open the trunk (they can ask though).

      I think it's good in a society to have the rules in place that make it difficult for the government to stop all law-breaking. A certain ability to break the law (if you're smart enough not to be caught) keeps the bad laws that are inevitably passed in check. Unfortunately, it also allows police too much discretion, since pretty much everyone breaks the law somehow or another.

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    11. Re:On the other side of the pond by cyberformer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In many countries, you are legally required to carry a drivers' license while driving. In the U.S., you're required to carry it in order to enter a bar (if you look under retirement age), pay by check, travel by plane or complete many other tasks. (A passport will do instead, provided it's from a well-known "friendly" country.) However, you don't need it at all times.

      The problem with compulsory ID cards is, as you say, that people would have to carry them even if they just go out for a walk. Under the govt.'s preferred scenario, failure to produce an ID to a policeman on demand would be a criminal offence, or at the very least a cause for a long interrogation while the police find some other means to verify identity.

      The other risk is that many businesses would come to rely on the universal ID card, making it easy for either the government or some data-mining corporation to cross-reference information and keep detailed, relatively accurate files on everyone.

  2. The Economist by n0nsensical · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Economist is great. They frequently have articles about patents, SCO, and all of our favorite /. topics, and I haven't seen any bad information like you get so often in lesser publications. This article on patents is just another great example. Bill Gates once said he reads The Economist from cover to cover weekly, hmm...

    1. Re:The Economist by n0nsensical · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, four times a year they run a special called the Technology Quarterly that covers new things in the tech world, which coincidentally was also in this week's issue. The topics this time around included cheaper solar cells, superconducting power transmission lines, nanomaterials, and quantum encryption.

      The European Commission wants to avoid the American situation, in which case law drives authorities to issue computer-related patents all too easily, in particular for business methods and algorithms.

      I hope they're right. If Europe really wants to become more independent from US influence, avoiding a US-style patent regime would be a wise choice.

    2. Re:The Economist by Cody+Hatch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hope they're right. If Europe really wants to become more independent from US influence, avoiding a US-style patent regime would be a wise choice.

      Even if they don't want to become "independent", avoiding US-style patents would be a good thing on its own merits.

      (Of course, if they did want to become independent of US influence, their best bet would probably be to increase productivity, encourage research and innovation, reverse the brain drain, and so on. Ironically, software pattents are supposed to help with most of that. In reality...well, I hope they manage to dodge them.)

    3. Re:The Economist by waterbear · · Score: 3, Informative

      If Europe really wants to become more independent from US influence, avoiding a US-style patent regime would be a wise choice.

      Unfortunately, Europe is entirely capable of creating its own gaffes, as well as grafting them on top of US-originating ideas. Currently, in the EU/EPO system, it seems that in practice there is an unwillingness to come out and explain clearly where the boundary lies between 'technical' (patentable) and non-technical (literary? aesthetic?) (non-patentable). It will leave the door open to future weird decisions in the software field.

    4. Re:The Economist by bm_luethke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, Europe is entirely capable of creating its own gaffes, as well as grafting them on top of US-originating ideas.

      [rant]Why is that nearly every good law the US has that is replaced by a crappy one is passed "because europe does it" and nearly every good law europe has that is replaced by a crappy one is because "the US does it"

      Everybody seems plagued by this. They seem to want to take all the crappy laws from each country, the most restrictive from each country, and create a homogenized structure based on that. Why can't they take the good stuff from everyone.

      Bah, politicians the world over suck.[/rant]

      Ok, I feel a little better.

      --
      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    5. Re:The Economist by michiel.h · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If Europe really wants to become more independent from US influence, avoiding a US-style patent regime would be a wise choice.
      The only two European countries strong and independent enough to resist the American influence are France and Germany. I pray for them and the EU.
      I don't know much about European politics, but I do know that my government, the Dutch government, will not go against the American will. Money and grand words come from the US, so why bother about the public opinion?
      The Dutch people were against the war on Iraq. Our government didn't do or say a thing.
      The VS wants the UN to clean up in Iraq. Dutch public opinion: Clean up your own mess. The Dutch government goes to the White House to concur with Bush about sending the UN to Iraq to rebuild it, instead of telling Bush he should have thought about it before launching a war.
      The US didn't sign the Kyoto treaty. Our opinion: What the F*CK?! Our government: "Um, Mister America? Could you maybe please, if it isn't too much trouble, please maybe sign it? Of course we don't want to push you or anything, but please reconsider, could you? Please? Pretty please?"
      JSF? Don't ask, ok? Just don't ask...

      Just some examples to show that The Netherlands won't stop software patenting if the US says the laws are good.
      Like a child following his father, the Dutch government holds onto America's hand, following it blindly while looking at all the pretty clouds and birdies.

      Do I sound bitter? I apologize.
      Please don't mind my spelling and grammar mistakes.
    6. Re:The Economist by Troed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No you didn't - learn some history. Russia saved Europe - if they hadn't beaten the crap out of Hitler's eastern army he would've rolled over the American-British invasion army in an instant.

      Hollywood don't teach history, they teach fiction.

    7. Re:The Economist by Distinguished+Hero · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Russians didn't want to get involved in the war. The Russians didn't care about the wellbeing of Europe in the least. Hitler and Stalin had a non-aggression pact, which was broken by Hitler, at which point Stalin had a nervous breakdown. The Russians were more than happy to carve up Europe with the Nazis, but Hitler wouldn't have it; he kind of saw it as his life's mission to get rid of the "Bolsheviks." The Russians only got into the war because the Germans attacked them. The Americans were not in a direct threat from the Germans, unlike the Soviets, and could have easily not gotten involved in the war, unlike the Soviets. The Russians were forced into the war against their will, whereas the Americans were there voluntarily.

      The Russians would have crumbled without the money and equipment given to them by the Americans. If it wasn't for the Americans, not only would Hitler have owned Europe, but he would have also owned Russia. Furthermore, the Russian soldiers did not want to fight in the least. Behind every Russian soldier, there was a man with a gun making sure that the soldier would advance; if not, the soldier was shot. Contrast this with the Americans, who although they were conscripted, were willing to advance on their own accord. Most Americans willingly risked and sacrificed their lives for a cause in which they believed, unlike the Russians, who sacrificed their lives because they had no choice. As for the massive losses the Russians suffered, this was not because they were somehow extremely devoted to the liberation of Europe, it was because of their own incompetence and shitty war machine (even after the Americans pumped them full of money and equipment).

      Finally, let's look at how the Soviets handled the end of the war. While they were advancing, the Russian army conducted themselves in a manner not fit for even the most disorganized army and committed many atrocities. They occupied and imposed "friendly" regimes in all the countries through which they steamrolled on their way to Germany. Contrast this with the Americans, who remained in Western Germany to insure that the Russians stayed on their damn side of Germany.

      If anything, the Russians did more harm to Europe than the Nazis could have ever done. Just ask any of the inhabitants of the Eastern European countries, or the East Germans. People weren't risking their lives to get into West Berlin just for the fun of it you know. This is all the stuff that happened at the end of the war, and doesn't even take into account all the shit that the Russians pulled afterwards.

      --
      Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
    8. Re:The Economist by Filip+Maurits · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Russians were forced into the war against their will, whereas the Americans were there voluntarily.

      I remember something from history class called "Pearl Harbour"...

      In the beginning of WW II the USA was sponsoring both the UK & Germany, selling weapons, machines, food, etc. to both sides.

    9. Re:The Economist by Distinguished+Hero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, Communism is responsible for over 200 million deaths worldwide, and a considerably larger number of people were subjected to horrible living conditions because of it (I myself was one of them). If Communism had propagated into Western Europe, there is no telling of what horrors might have ensued; it might have served as a launching pad into North America, and I suppose that would have been the end of it. As eerie and unlikely as that sound, there was actually a large possibility of it occurring; there were active Communist parties in both Western Europe and North America. The Nazis would have had a hard time taking over North America through military means, but the Commies could have done it much more easily from within. As for the damages actually done to Europe, while those done by the Nazis have mostly dissipated, those done by the Soviets remain apparent to this day.

      By the way, I do not believe the Goodwin Law can be invoked in a conversation regarding World War II. :)

      --
      Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
  3. Headaches by Serious+Simon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Moreover, there is another headache. The harder it is to patent computer-related inventions in Europe, the wider will be the legal gap with America.

    If the gap were closed by fixing the US patent laws, that would result in less headaches than having Europe repeat the mistakes made in America.

    1. Re:Headaches by Baki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who cares about a legal gap? Does america care about a legal gap with europe? Why should europe adapt, what would be the benefit?

      In the past an argument used to be that (large) corporations are important for our wealth, so we have to adapt our laws to suit them. I think recent developments show that corporations are less and less beneficial to the state of our economy (think outsourcing, bookkeeping scandals, tax fraud) so there should be less incentive to suit them, and more to push them away if that would be the result of sensible and just laws.

      I hope that anti-globalization (the non radical part of it) gains and europe will bet more on its local small- and medium sized companies instead.

  4. Hum.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    But UK is the most USA-like country in the Europe :-)

  5. Simple Rule (with Rider) by IBitOBear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is not that tough an issue...

    If it is, or it *can* *be*, implemented on a computer bought "off the shelf" and optionally modified only by parts bought "off the shelf" [e.g. "I added an eithernet card"] then it can not be patented.

    If it has been patented, and the state of "the comercial shelf" from which parts are normally bought [e.g. comp-USA etc] advances to the point where the above rule would make it un-patentable, the patent has reached its terminal lifespan and is no longer valid.

    In short, if you don't need a soldering iron [etc] it isn't patentable.

    (CPU Microcode is Copyrighted, not patented)

    That's it.

    [And yes, my name is on a patented thing just now (unless my employer lied about the inventor) so I do know the range and impact of what I am suggesting.]

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
    1. Re:Simple Rule (with Rider) by JanneM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting idea, but with some loopholes.

      Say you need Thingy X to work the patent (where X is anything from some strange add-in card, modified motherboard or whatever). Big Company Y does not want to pay for the patent when using it. They commission small company Z to build Thingy X - not the five or ten that Y needs, but five or ten thousand. Pay off one or two store chains to carry the remaining Thingy X. Voila - it's off-the-shelf, patent is void, Big Company Y wins.

      Even easier loophole: THe patent covers something that by it's nature would be used in off-the-shelf components. Build aforementioned components and sell. Patent is void.

      The principal idea is sound, but needs to be refined quite a bit, I'd think, and less connected to definitions of "standard" or "off the shelf".

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    2. Re:Simple Rule (with Rider) by azaris · · Score: 3, Insightful
      And now, it is US big software companies who want software patents in Europe as well... I don't think they would accept anything less than what they already have in USA: They just want their patents to be practical in Europe as well.

      I think it works the other way as well. European software companies are afraid that if unable to patent their innovations, their market will be invaded by American companies who hold American patents to said innovations. This will cause a situation where American companies can compete against European companies in Europe, but Europeans can't compete against Americans in the US.

      Rather than implement similar software patents than in America, the EU should argue with the WTO that American software patents inhibit free trade and should therefore be struck down. It would make no sense whatsoever to implement weaker software patents than in America, since American companies would still hold the edge of stronger patents and European companies would still be blocked from competing in the US.

      The battle is far from being won, and I think that the only good strategical way would be to move the battle to USA, and make them reconsider the way patents are used there, and how patents have helped Microsoft become the huge unstopable monster it is now.
      Excuse me? How many million did they have to pay in restitution for patent infringement this week? What about last month?
  6. Economist opinion column by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Economist had a reader suggesting the following, which is the real reason why the EPO (Attention, this is not an EU Agency!) needs to be legitimized by the EU Parlament and why it needs to adhere (uh, harmonize) to current US guidelines:

    "Empire, state building?

    SIR - You say that American military and nation-building intervention in other countries is likely to be short, because imperialism and democracy are at odds with each other ("Manifest destiny warmed up", August 16th). In the end democracy will win because the subjects will protest and so, eventually, will Americans. Your argument misses the economic face of empire.

    Over the past three decades, America's government , particularly the Clinton administration, has constructed an international monetary and financial framework which ensures that the normal working of market forces shores up American power. The framework yields disproportionate benefits to Americans and confers autonomy on its economic policymakers while curbing the autonomy of all others . It provides the material basis of American military supremacy.

    The key political feature of the system is that it is not an empire in the sense of an imperial centre and colonies. It is based on "sovereign" states. These states can be left to manage the costs of the system, including the protests of those whose lives are disrupted by it. This is how the modern-day empire can quietly escape the trade-off between imperialism and democracy, most of the time.

    Robert Hunter Wade
    London School of Economics
    London"

    http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm? story_id=2020866

    1. Re:Economist opinion column by pkaral · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mr. Wade's point is not very interesting. To rephrase his opinion: (1) America has a lot of influence in the world, (2) it uses it further its own interests, and (3) the power is projected [also] via monetary/financial institutions.

      Brief comments on these: (1) Great powers have existed in most of civilized history, and examples of one-country hegemonies are not unusual. (2) All countries try to further their own aims. (3) Power projected in this way is usually preferable to military power. Thus, the situation Wade discribes is neither unusual, nor necessarily bad or immoral.

      It is quite possible to argue that compared to all other hegemons, America has done less wrong and more good with its power. It is very easy to imagine worse hegemonies - imagine what e.g. a maoist Chinese, marxist Soviet or islamic Iranian hegemony would be like. I personally disapprove of major parts of American foreign policy, but I also try to be realistic about it and its alternatives.

      Btw, it is wrong to use the word "empire" in the sense Mr. Wade does. My Oxford Learner's Dictionary defines an empire as "Group of countries under a single supreme authority" (my emphasis). Taking the word 'supreme' out of the definition would make it include the UN, the WHO, the International Olympic Committee etc. etc. The US empire at present covers the American homeland, Iraq and nothing else.

    2. Re:Economist opinion column by ThyTurkeyIsDone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      (1) Great powers have existed in most of civilized history, and examples of one-country hegemonies are not unusual. (2) All countries try to further their own aims. (3) Power projected in this way is usually preferable to military power. Thus, the situation Wade discribes is neither unusual, nor necessarily bad or immoral.

      Discrimination against people on the basis of their race, sex etc. has existed in most of civilized history, and examples of it are not unusual. All societies have at some point, or even over an extended period in their history, discriminated against some groups on the basis of their race, sex etc. Such discrimination is usually preferable to hauling said people off to concentration camps.

      Thus, this situation is neither unusual, nor necessarily bad or immoral.

      Sound like a logical argument? What is unusual and what is bad or immoral are two entirely different questions; "it's always been like this" and "everyone does it" are no moral arguments at all; and your number (3) is a textbook example of a strawman.

    3. Re:Economist opinion column by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Really?
      My dictionary defines empire thusly:
      Empire
      Of, relating to, or characteristic of a neoclassic style, as in clothing or the decorative arts, prevalent in France during the first part of the 19th century.

      In political terms, there's still a fair bit of debate whether the United States constitutes an empire or hegemony. The distinction seems to be rather too subtle to be of much value. But for you conspiracy fans out there, the US could be said to control the World largely through manipulation of the World Bank and IMF--the policies promoted thusly may seem neutral, but tend to favour the US view of things.

      Regardless of whether the US is a hegemon, an empire, or hyperpuissance, the fact that US policies are translated into political control over persons who have no say in the matter should be of grave concern to USians. It matters not how benevolent this rule may be-- the ruled must be given the opportunity to choose for themselves.

  7. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you enjoy reading trolls, browse at -1. That's what I do. If you'd rather only read on-topic comments, use a higher threshold. The system is working as designed; the people who browse at 0 or above don't want to see the article modification posts.

  8. The "Technical Contribution" Criterion by Reimer+Behrends · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not sure if everybody realizes it, but if it is true, the most important part of the article is that supposedly Arlene McCarthy has finally agreed to include the "use of controllable forces of nature" as part of deciding whether an invention makes a technical contributions.

    Let's backstep a few decades. By the late 70s/early 80s, the German Federal Court had to decide on a number of patent applications. One involved an accounting program, one a system for anti-lock brakes (which was controlled by software). They found the former unpatentable, and the latter patentable. The distinguishing criterion was that the anti-lock brakes taught new ways to control forces of nature, whereas the accounting program was essentially an "instruction for the human mind", even if it was executed by a "machine that was used according to its intended use".

    With criteria for the patentability of these two extremes (a pure software solution, and a hardware solution with some tightly integrated software aspects) established, and technicality being the distinguishing criterion, and this state of affairs subsequently encoded in European patent law by saying that "programs as such" (as opposed to programs that were integrated with hardware solutions), the past few decades courts and patent offices started a battle over the gray area in between. The German Federal Court later allowed patentability increasingly to encroach on the software side, but the greatest abuse was done by the European Patent Office, which came up with more and more convoluted rationales to interpret the "as such" clause to allow for software patents, despite the clear legal precedent.

    Now things are in the hand of JURI, the European Parliament's committee for Legal Affairs and the Internal Market. The initial committee proposal for the patent directive had a wishy-washy clause about something being a "technical contribution", that wouldn't have changed anything and harmonized nothing, and would have especially allowed the EPO to extend its creative twisting of the law even further. And with the planned enactment of the Community Patent, to be granted by the EPO, the door would have been wide open for EU-wide software patents. Note that the problem with the proposal was not so much that it allowed for software patents, but that it was poorly written law, with a million ways to interpret it. A number of clarifications -- including the "controllable forces of nature" criterion were proposed to JURI, but they were rejected.

    So, if JURI finally concedes the point and allows for a proper, clear, and unambiguous criterion for technicality, that should alleviate quite a few concerns.

    1. Re:The "Technical Contribution" Criterion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      EPC simplified says:

      EPC 52.2 Programs for computers shall not be regarded as inventions.

      EPC 52.3 The provision "programs for computers shall not be regarded as
      inventions" shall exclude patentability of programs for computers only
      to the extent to which a patent relates to programs for computers as such.

      Which is equivalent to the swedish law:

      "As an invention is never regarded what alone constitutes a computer program"
      ("Sasom uppfinning anses aldrig vad som utgor enbart ett datorprogram.")

      This contradicts Amendment 14 of Article 2 in the directive which simplified says:

      a "computer-implemented invention" means an invention the performance of
      which involves the use of a computer and having features which are realised
      by means of a computer program

      Article 2 in its present form is a Trojan Horse, not a washing machine.

      http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=- // EP//TEXT+REPORT+A5-2003-0238+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&L=EN &LEVEL=1&NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y

      http://www.european-patent-office.org/legal/epc/ e/ ar52.html

    2. Re:The "Technical Contribution" Criterion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The Economist doesn't mention the exact wordings. The proposed amendment says "In determining whether a computer-implemented invention makes a technical contribution, the following test shall be used: <stuff about forces of nature and industrial application>".

      At first sight, this indeed looks great, but there's a really insidious backdoor: it says that the test "shall be used" (so if a computer-implemented invention passes the test, it makes a technical contribution), but not that it must be passed for the cii to make a technical contribution, nor that it is the only test to be used (so the EPO can keep on using its other battery of tests, mentioned under "When is something technical" at iusmentis.com; tests include "increasing speed", "reducing memory usage", ...). The amendment does not say this test must be anded with other tests nor that it is a required test, it at most says that it is a sufficient test.

      You may think I'm paranoid, but twisting this amendment would be the same as how they twisted the "computer programs as such are not patentable" statement in Art 52 of the European Patent Convention. This statement meant "You can't get patents on computer programs (as such), but adding a computer program to another - patentable - invention, does not render this invention unpatentable."

      Now how did the Commission/McCarthy and EPO twist this: "A computer program as such not patentable, but if a computer program has a technical effect, we call it a computer-implemented invention and then you can get a patent on this computer-implemented invention". So in this case, the granted patents does apply to the computer program as such (which is simply called differently).

    3. Re:The "Technical Contribution" Criterion by mickwd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "...a computer-implemented invention must be susceptible of industrial application..."

      There are very few pieces of software which would not be useable, in some way, in some particular industry.

      What is "industry" ? Is there a "childcare industry" ? If so, would even educational software and games "be susceptible of industrial application" ?

      The phrase "industrial application" is almost meaningless.

      "In order to involve an inventive step, a computer-implemented invention must make a technical contribution."

      It could be argued that any computer program / piece of software is, by its very nature, technical.

      What is the "contribution" contributing towards ? It could be argued that every single instruction executed by a microprocessor (with the exception of the "NOP" (No-OPeration instruction)) is affecting the state of the computer system in some way, and is thus providing a "contribution". Even the "NOP" instruction is often used to provide a timing delay to allow a computer program to operate correctly with the hardware it is attempting to control. Thus, even a single microprocessor "NOP" instruction is making a "technical contribution".

      The phrase "technical contribution" is meaningless.

      In turn, the phrase "inventive step" becomes meaningless.

      The phrase "industrial application" is almost meaningless, meaning that the definition of what is patentable is almost meaningless.

    4. Re:The "Technical Contribution" Criterion by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the most important part of the article is that supposedly Arlene McCarthy has finally agreed to include the "use of controllable forces of nature" as part of deciding whether an invention makes a technical contributions....

      So, if JURI finally concedes the point and allows for a proper, clear, and unambiguous criterion for technicality, that should alleviate quite a few concerns.


      If you go to Arlene McCarthy's website and view her Latest Press Release on The Proposal for a Directive on the Patentability of Computer-Implemented Inventions and if you read her latest interviews, it is crystal clear that she has not changed her position in the least.

      JURI has gone to great lengths to draft numerous amendments that give the impression of preventing patents on software without actually doing so. They have consistantly rejected every single proposal that unambiguously forbids patents on PURE SOFTWARE "inventions".

      The last time I reviewed the amendment proposals and JURI's votes on them JURI had rejected every single amendment that mentioned physical objects or forces of nature. Arlene McCarthy is adament in her position, if she has in fact endorsed an amendment containing the phrase "forces of nature" it is undoubtedly yet another mirage. If anyone has a link to such an amendment please post it. It will be amusing to see what kind of word games she's playing this time.

      Her goal is to grant patents on "computer implemented inventions". But there is no such thing as a computer implemented invention. The ONLY thing a computer can do is preform calculations. Let me be crystal clear: A computer cannot play music. A computer cannot print a letter. A computer cannot display an image. A computer can only do calculations. You can invent and patent a piece of hardware called a SPEAKER which can play music, but you cannot invent and patent calculations on MP3 information. You can invent and patent a piece of hardware called a PRINTER which can print a letter, but you cannot invent and patent calculations on text information. You can invent and patent a piece of hardware called a MONITOR which can display a picture, but you cannot invent and patent calculations on picture information.

      A piece of software is nothing but a fancy math calculation. Arlene McCarthy is fighting to make math patentable. Addition was certainly new and useful at one time. Multiplication was certainly new and useful at one time. Calculus was certainly new and useful at one time. But addition and multiplication and calculus are math calculations and math CANNOT be patented.

      Just because some piece of software is new and useful does not change the fact that it is nothing more than a math calculation. Just because math makes a "technical contribution" does not make it patentable.

      There is no problem with patenting new and usefull hardware, but Arlene McCarthy isn't talking about new hardware. She's talking about new software running on ordinary hardware.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  9. Re:Pearl of wisdom? by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Funny
    • Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    Sorry - I am not allowed to profit from that advice since Jeff Bezos has a patent on it.

  10. Re:Pearl of wisdom? by NewToNix · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

    Those that learn from history are doomed to watch it repeat.

    NewToNix

  11. US Lobbying pro Patent by Elektroschock · · Score: 4, Informative
    Currently the US government, represented by its patent office, is still bullying other countries wherever it can, be it bilateral or multilateral negotiations, asking them to adopt the US rules of patentability of abstract ideas dressed up in the terminology of the universal computer.

    See
    http://swpat.ffii.org/players/us/
    a page that gives a small glimpse.

    At the recent OECD conference, the US government's representative said that such conferences are useless and the debates of the economists harmful, because the patent system as is is "basically good" and the US will not permit any policy except one that "extends and strengthens" this system. The same representatives have also been doing their best to kill discussions on proper limits of "IP" at WIPO and other UN organisations.

  12. Re:People is Europe know and care about ... by pirhana · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its because average american is not aware of any real life issues. He is simply herded by the mainstream media and the news "manufactured" by them. Thats not the case in Europe or other part of the world where real life issues are reflected in the media to a great extend. And I think its because of the decentralisation of media infrastructure in these countries. So small players and public entities contribute to the diversity of the news. In US media(mostly) owned by a bunch of business groups who treat it just like any other profit generating business. Goverement agencies like BBC and small magazines/newspapers like "La monde" are good examples.

  13. Patents and propaganda by D4C5CE · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The European Commission wants to avoid the American situation

    ...or so they say. In fact, many European politicians do know that allowing software patents and business method patents inevitably leads to countless trivial patents.

    You wouldn't believe it, but here is what the Directive's proponents have admitted themselves:
    "Arlene McCarthy, chair of the legal affairs committee, said earlier this month she was not prepared to consider any proposals for amendments that do not acknowledge the patentability of software."

    In other words, they do want to conjure up a legal framework which scares even IT industry giants such as SAP, and not just small and medium enterprises, open-source advocates, academics and initiatives such as Attac that are of little importance to those prepared to discard or ignore any arguments made from what is just "the commie corner" in their view of the world.
    (P.S.: I am posting the google links rather than the direct URLs, for as of this writing, FFII.org itself seems to be unreachable, at this crucial moment in time...)

    The plenary vote on the new patents directive will be held within a few days, so please do contact some Members of the European Parliament (rather not just by eMail) right now and tell them that the introduction of software patents is a mistake their voters will never forget, no matter whether it is made knowingly nor out of ignorance.

    Moreover, there is no need to rush to precedential judgment now, only weeks before the World Summit on the Information Society, which (according to proposals such as these) may well turn on its head overreaching IP laws.

    1. Re:Patents and propaganda by D4C5CE · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think it's too late already unless you actually manage to contact your MEP personally by phone. A fax and a letter processing is probably so slow that it won't arrive in time.
      You'd be surprised what just 30 metres of protest faxes can do (provided they are reasoned rather than rants, of course)!

      Anyway, just days before a similar vote last year, people also lamented about there being "nothing more they could do" in the same way when the EU tried to legalise spam, but then intense popular opposition did help overturn the pro-spam majority at the very last minute, making a solid anti-spam provision part of the Telecommunications Data Protection Directive instead (unfortunately a similar success could not be achieved to eradicate another article which "allows for" data retention, however this is mostly inconsequential though, as trying to implement what the directive tries to permit in this regard is unconstitutional in many Member States anyway).

      Therefore, heck, no, it's only too late if we let the proposed Directive get parliamentary assent. On the other hand, the geek crowd will not be forgiven (nor ever forgive itself) if it lets this happen, especially not on the eve of an international conference like the WSIS that aims to make this whole world a better place by promoting our technophile way of life.

      To see for yourself that contacting the MEPs directly is possible, follow this link, find a wealth of information regarding the MEPs from your respective country (especially the socialists seem to be reconsidering their support right now) - and then use it.

  14. it will sort itself out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This who IP/legal mess that the US has created will sort itself out in time.

    These laws in the US are essentially used to claim stake to larger and larger territories of what might be done, not what will be done. Many patents filed today are to simply protect an ever widening space of technology and business the center of which is their flagship product.

    Many of them never intend on utilizing the existing patents, but to prevent any competition from getting too close to them

    It's easier to think of this as patents being grazing territory that you are staking out for your own source of food. In many cases, patents extend over more territory than the residents will ever be able to feed upon in their lifetime.

    Given this, you have not created a space of potential invention which cannot be used to 100% of it's capacity, but at a reduced level. We now have certain territories of which we cannot enter.

    As a whole, the species of inventor cannot utilize all of the potential grazing space available to them and will therefore procede to evolve, grow and thrive at a reduced rate.

    The note of evolution is important because inventions are generally based on the previous inventions of others. Without electricity or the transistor we wouldn't have much to play with in computers

    Under this restricted access condition, the environments available which provide for a higher level of utilization of the territory will provide for a faster rate of growth and evolution.

    What this translates to in terms of Patent development is that the areas which have looser patents laws will provide for a higher utilization of the ideas people come up with. And with that higher utilization will come a faster rate of application and development of even newer ideas. The rate will continue to increase.

    Meanwhile, back at the grazing land where everyone has staked out larger territory than required, they will progress at a much slower rate of development and have a overall lower population of viable resources.

    This will eventually balance itself out because the US will start to dramatically fall behind the EU in their technological innovations and inventions and the pace will quicken as the US legal system starts to slow down developments in the US further.

    The US will become an area not to do business in because of the risk of legal assaults. While the US terroritories and interests (of their Intellectual Property) will be protected, there will be no one from the outside of the US interested in directly participating, contributing, or attempting to profit from this economical environment.

    Additionally, no one will be too inclined to accept business from any US held companies because they are backed by their home-based legal system and their own, unappetizing, rules of IP/Copyright/Patent litigation which means that doing business with a US company could land you into a US court room regardless of their being the buyer or seller of a product.

    As this process stagnates, the EU and others will continue to thrive on their own and become ever more attractive and viable. People will migrate from the US towards other nations of greater prominence.

    This will be to a lesser degree similar to the migration of Cold-War scientists towards the West. They were given the opportunity to think freely and to practice their trakes more openly than they were allowed to under their Communist governments.

    This won't be a whole-population migration, it will be a migration of those who have the intellectual drive to be inventive. They will want to go someplace where they can invent rather than litigate. We already have cases of people leaving the USA for better lands where they can develop products and businesses without being asaulted by the US legal system.

    The US will become an area to avoid. The US will be required to give concessions to outside nations/business to reduce their IP/Patent/Copyright restrictions in order that they might once again become vi

  15. Re:Pearl of wisdom? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    On multiple levels, yet. The purpose of patents is to get people to publish complete descriptions of their inventions so people will not have to repeatedly redevelop the same technology, but rather be able to build on prior technologies. Where this is failing due to bad implemetation, it needs to be corrected.

    The problem comes when things that are not real contributions are allowed patent status. "One Click" should not be patentable, etc.

    The EPO has long held to a somewhat higher standard of patentability (and Japan a lower standard) - and if they are going to allow software patents they should adopt a very high standard at least initially to insure that they don't get junk patents. If it turns out that this is the correct approach they will be on firm ground to push America towards the same approach - although it will take legislation, changes in the law are the remedy to court interpitations that are leading towards an ineffective and potentially damaging patent system.

    Whether or not this rosy scenario can happen is questionable, but one can hope.

  16. info on the EU software patent vote... by nickos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just got this email from Dr Caroline Lucas, a Green MEP for the South East of England. It makes for interesting reading, and highlights the positions of the major parties. At the bottom of the email she includes a press release called "MEPs must back EU plans for patents for inventions" that was given to all of the Labour MEPs.

    Subject: software patenting - the vote has been postponed until the week of 22 September

    As a constituent who has emailed me recently on the issue of software patenting I am writing to inform you that the vote, due to have taken place on Tuesday, was postponed until September 24th. The reason for this is as follows:

    Back in July we Greens wanted to delay the vote as we knew that some of the big political groups in the Parliament were divided. Furthermore, we want to wait for the conclusions of the work of the Committee of Petitions as there is a petition, signed by 200,000 people against software patents, being presented to the Committee on 30 September.

    The PPE (of which the UK Conservatives are members) agreed with the Greens asking for a postponement of the vote, then changed their mind. The Socialists then asked for a delay realising that they were hopelessly divided.

    The current state of play within the Socialist group is that the Rapporteur, Labour MEP Arlene McCarthy, is only supported by the other Labour MEPs and half the Germans. The PPE group are mostly in support of Arlene McCarthy's proposal, except for the Catalonian and Scandanavian members (among the UK Conservatives, Malcolm Harbour MEP has been very supportive of Arlene McCarthy). Furthermore, the lead member of the PPE on this issue is Mme. Janelly Fourtou MEP, whose husband is the CEO of Vivendi Universal. The UK Liberal Democrats have been quite silent on this issue despite party policy being opposed to such patents.

    The reason why no vote is taking place is that the pro-patenting lobby is refusing to negotiate a sensible compromise, simply arguing that the law, as presently drafted would not grant unlimited patentability of software.

    This is simply not true.

    Given the strong lobby against the proposed legislation, Arlene McCarthy has launched a counter offensive and below I have copied a press release issued by the Labour Group of MEPs.

    I will of course contact you again to let you know if and when the vote proceeds. The Greens are co-organising a demonstration against software patents on the morning of the vote outside the Parliament building in Strasbourg.

    Yours sincerely,

    Caroline Lucas
    Green MEP for South East England

    This Press Release was sent out by the "UK Labour Delegation in the European Parliament" to all Labour MEPs on monday Sep 1st 18:11 for immediate publication.

    Subject: MEPs must back EU plans for patents for inventions
    For immediate release

    1st September 2003

    MEPs must back EU plans for patents for inventions

    Controversial new legislation on patents for computer-implemented inventions will be put to a critical vote in the European Parliament in Strasbourg at the end of this month (Parliamentary Session 22-25 September).

    Following a barrage of misinformation about the new EU wide patenting proposals, Labour MEP Arlene McCarthy - who wrote the Parliament's Report on the new proposals and is steering it through the Parliament - spoke out against the systematic campaign of misinformation being waged against new rules in the run up to the Strasbourg vote saying:

    A proposal for an EU wide law on patents for computer-implemented inventions is essential both to protect the interests of European Industry and prevent the drift towards US-style patenting of business methods. In a situation where both the European Patent Office (EPO) and the 15 national patent offices are handing out patents for computer-implemented inventions, an EU law can assist in clarifying the limits to patentability in the field of computer-implemented inventions. This would give industry more

  17. Patent Laws on Software by hackus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Essentially what have we got with patent laws on software?

    A very very sick US software industry that is on life support, with very little innovation.

    And what about the largest markets for software right now such as China? What do they think about our software IP system?

    Obviously they do not think it is fair. China is taking steps to make sure they do not incorporate ANY western software technology into thier products, going as far as constructing thier own Microprocessors, Motherboards and version of Linux to avoid software IP controls.

    No country with a expanding market would agree to the US version of IP or its restrictions.

    In the end, what does that do for the US except lock us out of new markets by governments who recognize the American copyright and patent system for what it is: To prevent and exterminate competition, kill the idea of ownership of ANYTHING and create a legal system that allows any company with enough cash to set artificially high prices.

    Everything about computing in the US has become cheaper outside of Microsoft's control, except software. Why is that?

    Why MUST OS software cost more than half of the basic price of computer equipment, and continue to increase when every single solitary aspect of computing has followed a cheaper, faster route?

    I will tell you why: American Software Patents, American Copyright Laws and crooked politicians who have been bought off and have tossed our Anti-trust laws out the window.

    From that window they also tossed out future access to markets as companies and countries over seas see how sick the American information technology industry is and what it has become.

    If you have been a reader to slashdot, you already know that many MANY products released over seas are far better than anything you could possibly buy here.

    Why is that? Why is this increasingly becomming an issue that better PDA's, better Cell Phones, better software is increasingly NOT in the US and you cannot BUY it here either.

    All we get is a new version of Windows to make it easier to use...

    easier for Hackers, terrorists and foreigners to break into our corporate and government institutions, to use, I mean.

    Europe should ask itself does it really want this sort of legal lunacy, where even if you wanted to FIX software under our copyright law, to prevent such breakins it would be illegal to do so?

    Even if you bought it for Christ sake after signing a DMCA copyright EULA that says you cannot sue the company you bought the software from?

    The US IP law and Copyright law as written is out of control, and it be rewritten to prevent our allies and far east block nations from viewing us and our software products with such suspicion.

    In the end it locks us out of these markets and sends jobs over seas.

    Is it any wonder? Software in the US is incredibly expensive, but not directly because of what we pay our programmers, but because software IS expensive in a market that has not competition.

    American software companies can innovate, if they are forced to do so, when faced with cheap labor overseas.

    But innovation is impossible in a market that patents ideas, copyrights information for 100 years at a time and allows companies like SCO to not produce anything innovative with thier OS except a legal summary against IBM.

    Our very own laws are preventing us from competing effectively in all levels of maunfacturing software.

    I hope Europe doesn't make the same mistake we have so at least they can participate in the enourmous software market opportunities in the far east to sell thier products thier, unlike the US which is basically a write off at this point.

    -Hack

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.