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Spider Robinson And The State Of Science Fiction

pcb writes "There is a rather decent rant in today's Globe & Mail from Spider Robinson (of the Callahan series fame) regarding the dismal state of science fiction, in which he laments that the future is not what it used to be. While attending Torcon 3, the 61st World SF Convention, he notes that SF readers today seem to prefer the Tolkienesque fantasies of some forgotten past, rather than the forward-looking works of science and space travel that used to dominate the genre. Are SF stories from authors like Heinlein, Clarke or Asimov irrelevant today, as people look into the past to dream rather than the future? Robinson asks: 'Why are our imaginations retreating from science and space, and into fantasy?'"

15 of 854 comments (clear)

  1. Technophobia by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The thing to remember back in Heinlien and Asimov's time was that the sky was the limit. In the following decades we have seen the problems of pure technological solutions: Pollution, social unrest, empty lives filled with useless junk.

    Tolkien had very anti-technology undertones. He constantly refered to the dark clouds of Mordor, the decimation of the forests in Eisengard. That strikes a note with the post-hippie kids of the 70's and 80's.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  2. We see it all the time. by grub · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Compared to the earlier-mid parts of the 20th century, we see science all around us. Medical breakthroughs, technological innovations, etc.

    We used to have to wait decades for great discoveries. Now they theorize and prove within short years. Fantasy brings people into a world that can't exist. Sci-Fi stories may one day be true and aren't as escapist.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  3. He's wrong by Argyle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The traditional Sci-Fi of rocket ships, blaster guns, and aliens may be on decline, but there many new sci-fi (not fantasy) books coming out all the time.

    The focus of much of the Sci-Fi these days is on the relationship of the technology to society and the long term effects of the technology on the path of humanity.

    Take a look at Vernor Vinge, John Varley, John Wright, Cory Doctorow, John Barnes, Bruce Sterling, Ken MacLeod, and Dan Simmons if you are interested in some recent sci-fi. No elves or magic swords there.

    Just because it's not 60s style, libertarian - free love stuff of the past doesn't mean it's not sci-fi.

    --
    nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
  4. Science Fiction Self Defeating by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think you hid the nail on the head. How many Sci-Fi stories end up concluding with the low-tech savages beat out the high-tech conquerors? How often is a supercomputer or a golemesque form of life the primary plot device for a story? How often are SF novel filled with popsicle stick characters that are flat compared to the technology the author is describing.

    It's a reflection of taste that we are moving from the tech driven SF genre into the character driven fantasy world. At least in fantasy, they aren't trying to explain HOW the magic works. They simply use it to get around a peculiar problem, or to leverage the abilities of the protagonist against an otherwise overwhelming foe.

    Damn it. I'm starting to sound like Campbell.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  5. Ideas... by Anonymous+Cow+herd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I went to a presentation/speaking appointment by Terry Goodkind a few weeks ago, and he mentioned something on the subject. I won't get into his whole philosophical thing here, but he thought that the reason that sci-fi had taken a rear seat to fantasy was "moral clarity". 99% of fantasy out there deals with good vs evil, on a very basic level, whereas sci-fi tends not to as much. It may make social commentary, or pose interesting problems, but very rarely in sci-fi is there an archetypal hero, and that this is something that people really crave in today's society... a person (even if they're fictional) that a reader can admire, and be inspired by.

    --
    Ita erat quando hic adveni.
  6. Re:Reality vs. Fantasy by cK-Gunslinger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think you hit it exactly. The "future" has become mundane. People in the 50s dreamed of robots in our everyday lives. And now we have them, just not *exactly* how they envisioned them. Same with space travel and exploration.

    I believe that we will put a human on Mars and colonize the moon/planets. Not in my lifetime, probably, but eventually. Why imagine it? On the other hand, I doubt if any human will roam the countryside with his elf companion, talking to trees and hunting dragons and wizards. Ever.

    On a different topic, I must admit that I *love* SK's Dark Tower series (check the nick.) It's got an interesting blend of old, modern, and future. There's something intriguing about chasing a wizard with your heroin-addicted friend, while fighting nuclear-powered giant robots with your sandlewood six-shooters. (And that description is sure to scare any non-readers away for good, yet get a chuckle from some fans. =)

  7. Re:Dream of a better day... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Part of it is about economic cycles.

    We're in a recession. During recessionary periods, nostalgic fantasy dominates the cultural landscape. It was true in the 70's, it was true in the early 90's, and it's true now. During boom cycles, "the future is now" optimism (or "the world is changing too fast" pessimism) has a lot more energy.

    Also, the sense of public investment in the future is weaker. The age of space travel as a public-sector funded universal aspiration has been eclipsed by the corporate "if it ain't profitable within 3 years, it's not worth doing" attitude of the present day. There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes, most of us won't be able to afford it.

  8. We know enough to ruin the dreams by PotatoHead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Think about it a little. We have laws such as the DMCA that basically divide our current tech into little fiefdoms. Innovators are sued, hacking existing tech is quickly becoming a crime, and the existing players encourage passive use of their tech --not understanding.

    Many of the ideals that make SF what it is are being marginalized today. Sort of depressing really.

    Combine this with our present science and we know enough that reaching another star system will not happen in our lifetimes. Though Mars should --if it doesn't its political, not technical.

    Almost smells like a plot to put all the smart ones back underground where they belong so the real business of making money today --right now, can get done...

    Maybe I am just being a little too alarmist this morning. I personally enjoy SF and share the view of the author. Maybe nobody is really exploring SF because fantasy is easier or something...

    BTW, what is the genre of "The Reality Disfunction" by Peter F. Hamilton? Seems to be SF, but does have some other elements. Any ideas?

  9. why I believe Sci-Fi is not as popular by linuxisit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps the direction technology is taking us scares
    the hell out of us. The future apparently holds
    fewer rights, less privacy, more commercials, etc.

    Who wants to fantasize about that???? Not me!!!
    Tell me how do we get off this world thats heading
    down the toilet?

    At least fantasy still provides hope that good can
    still prevail against evil. With techonology the
    question is which evil state of afairs wins over
    some other evil state of afairs. Mind you the
    heros may be good vs evil but the world in which
    they live still sucks!

    Thats my point....

  10. Magic Vs. Technology by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Indeed, one can't deny that 50 years ago technology and magic were one and the same. Most people couldn't tell you what Newton's 3 laws were, and Einstein's relativity was considered utterly incomprehensible. Most people's understanding of math stopped at arithmetic. A learned man might know algebra. The true wizards of the math world grocked calculis.

    Computer control systems were almost unheard of, and used only on system of fantastic proportions like Nuclear reactors and weapon targeting systems.

    Don't forget that technology was largely credited at the time for winning the war. It also brought an end to many plagues affecting americans: smallpox and polio. 50 years ago was a much different time.

    50 years ago technology WAS magic. Few who used it understood it. Those that made it happen were wizards in labcoats.

    --
    "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
    --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
  11. Re:Research vs not researching by FileNotFound · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Science fiction doesn't have to be about science, in fact, IT CANNOT BE ALL SCIENCE. All too often the authors focus on just the scietific aspect and totaly forget about the characters.

    I have read every single Asimov book I could find because he never made that mistake. Science is the setting, the characters are the story.

    I've been trying desperatly to find some good SciFi to read and I've failed. All too often I feel like the author is trying too hard to explain how all this scientific mumbo jumbo works and not why the character is doing act X and act Y.

    So I ended up reading fantasy books, simply because the charcater development is generaly better. I couldn't care less if the fighting takes place with quantum molecular phasing fusion bombs or rusty swords as long as it's justified and I feel like I care about the characters involved.

    I think time has nothing to do with it; I don't care if we'll be in space 40 or 40000 years from now or never. We'll certainly never be in the "Forgotten Realms" or in the world of "Richard Rhal". It doesn't have to be "realistic", or "well researched" it just has to make sense. Am I ok with Sci Fi which says 2+2=5? No, not unless it make sense, and if it can make sense and have good characters, I want it.

    Maybe I've been spoiled by Asimov and Clarke (Rama was great, even though the ending made me want to puke). Certainly, the world of SciFi sucks right now. It's not because the books describe flying though space in the year 2003. George Orwell wrote 1984 knowing that the time was irrelevant, and its' still a great and fairly popular book because of the character development.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
  12. Re:Research vs not researching by n1vux · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Have you tried Ben Bova for SciFi with Sci being the backdrop? Personally, I think he's quite good.

    SF authors who still have spaceships but put character ahead of science include Asaro, Moon, and Cherryh. All have some intersting science or engieneering in the Doc Smith tradition, but not as the core of the tale.

    Can I think of any male authors? Well, the Cyberpunk sub-genre treats the techno as background, or as McGuffin, with conflicting motivations a major factor. Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series certainly features the terraforming technology and the extrapolated Marsology ... but has strong characters with twisting motivations. His Orange County "trilogy" is three different futures, the main character common to all three is the geography and pre-history of O.C.; the Green agenda's speculative tech is present, but the characters are vivid as well. Baxter's Space:(X) "trilogy" is on the scope of 2001 or Harry Selden, in the style of Stan's Mars, with the "3 alternates" conceit of Stans' O.C., with the continuity being 3 alternate twistings of a specific person by history, opportunity, and fate.

    Funny Spider Robinson should complain about this though. The Callahan's stories fall under Clarke's Law; the Future Beings who drop into the Cross-Time Saloon might as well be magicians from Myth Adventures.

  13. Re:Reality vs. Fantasy by akaina · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can't see the forest through the trees. It's not the poloticians or the school boards that are going to save the future. Shouldn't it be us, the technologists? If not us, then who?

    --
    Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
  14. A different Take on Things by SWestrup · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the panels at TorCon3 was "Has Science Fiction Failed as a Fiction of Science?" The various panellists decided that SF hasn't so failed, and then proceeded to give explanation after explanation of why, in fact, it has. Lets face it, to any sophisticated reader, most SF written today is not written about a possible future, but about what we once thought might be a possible future. Scientific and technological progress has passed by most of today's authors and left them in the dust. Reading even well-written 'SF' like that of Czerneda or Bujold IS reading fantasy and has much the same feel as reading 1930's SF where everything is done with massive vacuum tubes. The story may be well told and the characterization is great, but the setting makes no sense. Where are the AIs? Where are the hugely extended lifetimes? Where is the nanotechnology? Where are the body modifications? Whaere are the ubiquitous microscopic computers? Where is the brain uploading? Where are any number of technologies we are working towards today that don't show up in most contemporary SF? Spider laments that readers prefer Fantasy to SF. Maybe they just prefer that their fantasy be overt.

    Now, all is not lost, some authors such as Walter Jon Williams, Charlie Stross, Linda Nagata, Ian M Banks, Greg Egan and others have embraced the new future that is appearing in front of us, but they are the exceptions. Until most SF authors are actually writing about possible futures again, SF will be in an inevitable decline.

  15. Question by militantbob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've noticed that our entire society leans more toward fantasy, mysticism, and mythology, lately. Reality, or possible future realities, is becoming rare in any form of mass media. Even 'Reality TV' is horribly far from reality.

    It has been suggested that we are entering a new 'Dark Ages', of sorts. This is perhaps in response to the fear, rational or not, of what near-future technology may bring - human cloning and a list of other 'scaries'.

    What I find very interesting is this: In ages past, man feared nature, because of what he did not know. In this age, man is beginning to fear science, because of what he can know.

    On a side note, a question that I'd like to ask, which is somewhat related:

    How would you classify works such as OSC's Ender series? Obviously set in the future, but after Ender's Game (and a few pieces here and there in the next 3 books), they are mainly focused on personal, moral, and geopolitical issues, with little or no mention of any technologies or lifestyle changes. Even the 'nets' are simply categorized hub-style Internet groupings. It seems to me that the Ender books set in the near future (as opposed to the 3000-years-ahead future) read more like modern fantasy... almost like what you would get if you took the politics and war-making in the Lord of the Rings, and set them in modern times, while ignoring the rest of the story.

    --
    "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants." --Thomas Jefferson