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Gnome 2.4 Release (d)

Posted by timothy on from the seldon-plan dept.

chendo writes "Gnome 2.4 will be released today. Here is the link to the article on Ars Technica. GNOME 2.4 is the result of quite a bit of work toward complying with the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines (HIG), which mainly focus on user interface consistency and predictability. This release has also undergone some general polish, and it can finally be said that the GNOME 2 platform has achieved maturity with this release. The Epiphany web browser, a major new component of GNOME, also makes its debut with this release. (From Footnotes)"

49 of 566 comments (clear)

  1. To keep this topic readable... by geschild · · Score: 5, Funny

    All KDE and Gnome Zealots please board this thread, forsaking all other threads within this topic.

    To make this new guideline more comfortable for the really and truly devoted:

    - KDE had all of the new features three releases ago. Please get Gnome development out of the way of The One Real GUI(tm)

    - KDE whiners: eat our dust! (Gnome, The True Gui for Real People)

    A Console/Lynx user... (Yeah, right... ;)

    --
    Karma? What's that again?
    1. Re:To keep this topic readable... by iapetus · · Score: 3, Funny

      While we're on the topic of religious software wars, you might want to try Links instead of Lynx.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    2. Re:To keep this topic readable... by geschild · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thank you for the tip, but I'd rather just telnet in and parse the HTML myself, thank you.

      (That damn w3c is making life ever harder for us hard-core wankers though. Every new revision of the standards I have to 'update' my parser through a long and painfull flashing process called learning.)

      --
      Karma? What's that again?
    3. Re:To keep this topic readable... by johnnyb · · Score: 4, Funny

      Loser. I speak Ethernet directly.

      --
      Engineering and the Ultimate
    4. Re:To keep this topic readable... by suwain_2 · · Score: 3, Funny

      And you think that's an accomplishment? I just put the Ethernet cable to my tongue, and can feel the charges.

      (Took me a while to figure out how to see the images, though. Give it a while and you'll eventually pick up the skill.)

      --
      ________________________________________________
      suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  2. Still major usability issues... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) Main menu doesn't respond to alphabet keybindings ala IceWM, KDE and Windows 95!

    2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

    GNOME rules, but these two things (among the Metacity wireframe and animation niggles) are real problems. For all the UI work, it's a shame they can't get such elementary stuff right.

    Still, I'll be downloading it tonight :)

    1. Re:Still major usability issues... by mccalli · · Score: 5, Insightful
      2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

      Disclaimer: Haven't used pure Gnome in quite a while, perhaps some of the points below have been handled by now.

      I hate the fact that the Windows taskbar reflects the order in which the apps are launched and then cannot be changed. If you're going to have a taskbar interface, then fair enough chronological order seems a sensible default. However once launched, I really want to be able to drag that indication to whatever position I want in the taskbar.

      For example, at work on my NT4 box I have a standard set of apps open most times. They are Notes (ugh), two Firebird windows, Putty and a Remote desktop connection. Apps after that can come and go, but I want those apps always in the same place so I don't have to hunt for them later.

      I'm also an OS X user, and although I'm aware of criticism of the dock there's certainly one thing to be said for it - your most frequenctly used applications always appear in the same place, both for launching and for bringing to the front.

      As a quick aside - anyone else remember the Apple Human Interface Guidlines circa System 7-era, incorporating the Principle of Muscular Remembrance? The idea is that important stuff is always in the same place, every time, so that the user doesn't even have to conciously think about where to find things. It's the reason Macs have a single menu bar, at the top of the screen. It seems to me to also be a key thought behind the dock.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:Still major usability issues... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      2) Taskbar doesn't reflect order that programs were started in. It inserts new buttons at random positions.

      It doesn't insert them at random. It inserts them beside similar buttons. At least, Debian testing's Gnome (version 2.2) does.

      If you open a Galeon window, then a terminal window, then a FreeCell window, then open a second Galeon window, the button for the second Galeon window will appear in the taskbar beside the first Galeon button. That way, you don't have to go searching through 14 buttons to find the similar ones.

      Windows XP does this, too, if I remember rightly. Of course, every time I see a default Windows XP install, I want to gouge my eyes out in horror.....

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    3. Re:Still major usability issues... by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I normally have a great number of windows open. As most start their entry in the taskbar with the application name and then the content of the application I normally can't read which specific instance of an application that button means

      This is the great thing about multiple desktops. It took me a little while to get used to, but I can't stand going to a Win* machine and having only one desktop now after using "Linux" for 5 or 6 years.

      I usually use 4 desktops. 1 and 2 are my "working" desktops (work, web browsing, games, etc.). Desktop 3 I leave my mail app open (kmail). Desktop 4 I usually have Pan open or minimized, and also keep a few network monitoring apps open (etherape, ethereal, tailing /var/log/messages, things like that). This way it keeps my taskbar clutter to a minimum, but keeps everything just a click (or a CTRL+TAB) away at the same time. VERY handy!

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
  3. It's not out yet. by asobala · · Score: 5, Informative

    When is _is_ out, you'll have all sorts of release notes and screenshots to look at. Slashdot is announcing non-existant releases again :)

  4. Write GnomeVFS modules: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Learn how to use the GnomeVFS library to extend GNOME, enabling drag-and-drop and other features across multiple protocols and file systems. This article gives you what you'll need to extend GNOME and develop your own extensions to the virtual file system.

  5. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by egrinake · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, GNOME has already won awards for its accessibility work, and it has a mature framework for dealing with this (disclaimer: I've never tried it, just heard people praising it).

    The article itself points this out in two places.

  6. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by KarmaPolice · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the (f*******) article:
    Gnome 2.4 ships with GOK, an award-winning dynamic onscreen keyboard. It supports Direct Selection, Dwell Selection, Automatic Scanning and Inverse Scanning, and includes word completion. A detailed overview can be found on the GOK website.

    Gnopernicus, the second accessibility application to ship with GNOME, provides a number of assistive technologies for people suffering from visual impairment. Most notably, it includes a screen reader, a screen magnifier and a Braille writer.

  7. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by bahamat · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the big concessions that I've heard about Windows is that it has a lot of accessibility features that weren't present in other previous GUIs.

    That's actually not true. The X-Windowing-System has come with xmag virtually for ever. High contrast themes are not hard to create. You can make icons and fonts whatever size you want. We've even got sticky keys. The only thing X is missing as far as accessibility is keyboard control of the mouse cursor. Then again, you can always run ratpoison and be rid of the rodent forever.

    You've been lied to my friend.

  8. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    Gnopernicus, the second accessibility application

    How can you provide accessibility functionality thru an unpronouncable application ?

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  9. current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening?). by Si · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No way to edge-flip to another desktop.

    Thus no d'n'd windows across desktops. Pager sucks for this at 16x12.

    Gnome-panel regularly poops out at shutdown.

    Metacity? Feh. Bring back sawfish (and I mean updated!). The introduction of predictability has led to a sharp decrease in customisability.

    I have on average 20 terminals open. If one dies (e.g. because it's a shell window on a machine not available from my current location at start-up), down go the others. This is wholly unacceptable. Because of this, I almost switched to KDE - but it only supports 16 desktops which is Fucking Lame. Excuse me.

    Other than those few issues, Gnome (2.x) is very stable, reliable, and well-featured. Keep up the good work (and please attend to that terminal problem).

    --


    Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
  10. Not Really by Bruha · · Score: 3, Interesting

    KDE IMO is pretty stable and Gnome for that matter is also. But I use KDE becuase there appears to be more apps being developed for it.

    Maybe if the WM's would design some sort of common application interface so things would look right on all the WM's that confirmed to the standard then we'd see a lot more x-compatibility in those applications.

    And why does each WM have a seperate browser/file explorer? Just keep the explorer seperate from web browsing (Besides it's a MicroSoft idiocy) and we can all use Mozilla/Opera or whatever else.

  11. Wrong logo by asobala · · Score: 4, Informative

    You know, this logo is the really old one. Any chance of slashdot changing it?

  12. GNOME section icon by sfraggle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The GNOME section icon is out of date: GNOME changed their logo about a year ago. I've done a new topic icon with the new logo if one of the slashdot editors is interested in putting it in.

    --
    were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
  13. GNOME 2 by nutshell42 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From the article:

    Unlike some other browsers, in Epiphany you will not find half a dozen ways to use tabs and manage cookies and bookmarks, as Epiphany is targeted towards the average user.

    And IMHO that's the wrong approach. *Especially* for the less technically inclined it would be better to have as many different ways as possible to do something. If you look at usability studies they always say how the test persons all tried different things to do the required task and how half of them got stuck on the way and didn't know what to do. One thing Windows gets right is that there is always more than one way to reach your goal. (e.g. you can adjust the time by double clicking on the clock, by using the context menu of the clock, by using the control panel etc.)

    Having one elegant solution is nice and appeals to the mathematician in us all but if you look at speech there are many different ways to express a thought, perhaps one is more elegant than the others but all may be correct and logical. (to go back to the clock example: user A thinks "I want to change the time, that should be possible by doing something with the clock thingy" but in user B's opinion it's "I want to change a setting, it should be in the control panel")

    IMHO, GUIs should try to enable users to do things their way and therefore it's better to have as many approaches as possible for a task

    jm2c

    --
    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    1. Re:GNOME 2 by Boing · · Score: 3, Interesting
      If you look at usability studies they always say how the test persons all tried different things to do the required task and how half of them got stuck on the way and didn't know what to do. One thing Windows gets right is that there is always more than one way to reach your goal.

      That may be applicable to your example of setting the system time, but the behavior of fundamental interface elements should be consistent across installations. The problem with flexibility and customization on that level is that everybody who uses that installation for the first time has to climb a new learning curve... and everyone who gets used to that installation has to reclimb the learning curve any time they go to a different setup.

      For a long time, I preferred the "X" method of window activation: move the mouse over it, it's active. But since I had to use Windows professionally, I grew more comfortable with the click-to-activate method. My instinctive predictions of the computer's behavior have only so much real estate for conflicting behavior, so the less common one (X) became less comfortable. Eventually, I changed the FVWM setting so that they were no longer in conflict.

      So yes, TIMTOWTDI (there is more than one way to do it) is a good philosophy for high-level functionality, but ideally, all of the different ways to do it need to be independent of the user's settings.

    2. Re:GNOME 2 by Deusy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have both valid and invalid points.

      One thing Windows gets right is that there is always more than one way to reach your goal.

      Is 'tabbed browsing' a goal or a method? I'd suggest it's the latter. And methods should always be logical and consistent. By offering various unecessary preferences on how your tabs behave, you provide the user with a means to confuse themselves. However, if the most logical default method is used, then there is no confusion available to occur and the user finds it intuitive. If the method is not intuitive, then a different setting should be used.

      As for multiple paths to reach all goals; it depends on the goal. The clock example is a good example of multiple logical paths to the one goal. Double clicking to activate, right clicking to bring up the contextual menu, and an appropriate entry in the control panel. These are all routes that a user might try to take to configure the time on their computer.

      All logical routes should be available to any goal, but sometimes there is only one logical route. For instance, you would not want multiple ways to disable popups in Epiphany, just a simple entry in the preferences for Epiphany.

      Do not confuse methods with goals, nor assume all goals have multiple intuitive pathways.

      --

      Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary

  14. Gnome 2.4 Review by the_pooh_experience · · Score: 4, Informative
    So ARS Technica has a fairly in depth review of 2.4. Among other things, it includes:
  15. Re:Browsers... by Jellybob · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's an integration thing... Firebird/Mozilla/whatever else has it's own way of doing windowing, unlike Epiphany, which is GTK2 based, and integrated with the Gnome config options.

  16. Slashdot's GNOME Logo by jdub! · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm kinda surprised that Slashdot haven't updated the GNOME category logo, considering that it's been 18 months and three major releases since the logo change. :-)

  17. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Try Shift-Numlock, it worked for me for ages

  18. Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? by BenjyD · · Score: 4, Informative

    Must...not...respond....to....troll...but can't help it

    I lurk on the kde dev mailing lists and the number of changes upcoming in 3.2 is pretty impressive: A lot of new PIM features, the Safari changes to KHTML, speed improvements. KDE is at the stage where new releases are really adding polish rather than making major changes, but there are still a lot of good new things going in.

  19. Re:current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening? by JanneM · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Gnome-panel bug is a new one for me; filing a bug report would likely be very appreciated by the devels.

    Sawfish: Just run it. There are some people hacking on it, I believe, so it should be maintained. And tell the sawfish devels if there is something you miss.

    The terminal: They are all the same application with multiple windows; cuts down on resource use. Of course, if it dies, so do they all - that's the downside. You can, however, start a new terminal, explicitly stating that it should not be another instance in an existing gnome-terminal application:

    gnome-terminal --disable-factory

    That will give you an independent terminal instance that will not be affected. Of course, you pay by a bit higher total resource use, but that is probably worth it for you.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  20. Re:...because they predate Firebird... by __past__ · · Score: 4, Informative

    Both Galeon and Epiphany use Gecko, the Mozilla rendering engine. It's unlikely that they are much older than Mozilla itself.

    --
    Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
  21. Re:KDE had all of the new features three releases by geschild · · Score: 3, Funny

    Thanks for the tip. You're a bit late though, lieutenant. My original post is already modded -1 Troll. *grin*

    --
    Karma? What's that again?
  22. Great discussion of GUIs by elliotj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You gotta love Ars. The first few paragraphs describe in layman's terms why Windows and the Mac have consistent GUIs and why Linux does not. I hope the main drivers of Linux desktop adoption (the Gnomes, KDEs & Red Hats of the world) pay very close attention to the implications of this message. It's been said many times, but warrants repeating again: Linux desktop adoption is suffering from a lack of consistency across applications.

    1. Re:Great discussion of GUIs by ShadeARG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Consistency between applications on Linux is a pipe dream, unfortunately for the near future. I'll explain why.

      Different applications make use of different interface toolkits like GTK+, Qt, Tk, Swing, AWT, Xaw, Fltk, etc. Unless a container toolkit of some kind is developed (that supports GTK+ and Qt at the very least), this is going to be a major roadblock.

      A better solution that would be amazingly helpful to Linux on the desktop is if KDE and Gnome could come together and tackle this as a team.

    2. Re:Great discussion of GUIs by vondo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While I agree that consistency is very important, Windows is not very consistent either. Last time I looked, Windows Media Player (a MS product) has a very different interface (look and feel) than windows or IE. Plus there are all the 3rd party apps like WinAmp that are TOTALLY different. The monitoring/overclocking control for my motherboard tries to look like an console game pad.

      Mac may be better. I haven't really used one in years.

  23. Re:simulating clicks by ThogScully · · Score: 5, Informative

    5 is a button click and and you change what button it is by clicking / for left, * for both, and - for right. + is a double-click. 0 is button hold, . is release.
    -N

    --
    I've nothing to say here...
  24. Re:Browsers... by Deusy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Firstly, Gnome is not an X Window Manager.

    Secondly, only two 'desktops' have their own 'integrated' browser; Gnome (Epiphany) and KDE (Konqueror).

    The purpose of the integrated web browser is to provide a default for users, and to provide extra functionality through tight integration with the desktop. Think Internet Explorer in Windows.

    - Imagine if you installed your new Gnome and tried to browse the web, only to find no browser available
    - Epiphany views can be embedded in Nautilus
    - Epiphany strictly follows the HIG and other Gnome2 standards (GConf etc)

    In a decent desktop, every basic task should be accomplishable through a default suite of applications; playing media, writing documents, browsing the web, checking your email. And each of these components should be substitutable so those requiring extra functionality (or with a simple preference) can drop-in their preferred application. This is part the Utopia the Gnome project is working towards.

    --

    Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary

  25. You want more desktops, you got it by Johan+Veenstra · · Score: 3, Informative

    Exit KDE

    edit ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals

    change:

    [Desktops] ....
    Number=4

    into

    [Desktops] ....
    Number=32

    restart KDE, voila.

    1. Re:You want more desktops, you got it by vivek7006 · · Score: 4, Informative

      U dont even have to do all that crap. Just right click on the kde desktop, go to properties and specify 'n' number of desktops.

      Done.....

  26. Re:Mandrake by salimma · · Score: 5, Informative
    You're thinking of Red Hat. It's compiled for a 386

    Actually, Mandrake is compiled for i686 but only using the i586 instruction set, while Red Hat is compiled for i686 utilising the i486 instruction set for compatibility. Why it's still called 'i386' is anyone's guess.
    --
    Michel
    Fedora Project Contribut
  27. Re:Gnome development outpacing KDE? by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

    KDE isnt doing much to their interface lately, although we can blame Xfree86 for not finishing up the SVG stuff, KDE is getting left in Gnomes dust right now.

    I would love to hear your rationale for saying that. How has Gnome surpassed KDE? How has KDE's interface grown stagnant? I agree with the SVG comment part, but that's not KDE's "fault" (not that it's anyones "fault", but...). I can be 100% honest when I say: There is nothing major not offered in KDE that makes me even think of it as growing stagnant, and certainly not with the 3.2 release in the works.

    (I'm not trying to start a war, there's good things about Gnome as well, I just prefer KDE and would like to hear why you feel that it's getting "left in Gnomes dust right now")

    --
    I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
    I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
  28. Re:hopefully by Lispy · · Score: 3, Informative

    dropline will supply users with 2.4 soon!!

  29. Re:That's great! Accessibility? by hephro · · Score: 4, Informative
    Regarding speech recognition: Unfortunately, Gnome doesn't have anything that comes close to products such as Dragon Dictate and ViaVoice. The ViaVoice version for Linux was discontinued at some point... and free software such as Sphinx doesn't come close to the commercial products.

    Maybe this one of the areas where free software really has a hard time catching up: small market, highly sophisticated software, small "coolness" factor, and very smooth desktop-integration a requirement...

  30. Re:Mandrake by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 5, Informative

    As much as I like gentoo, it doesn't release packages immideatelly after they are released.

    nano -w /etc/make.conf

    Advanced Masking
    # ================
    #
    # Gentoo is using a new masking system to allow for easier stability testing
    # on packages. KEYWORDS are used in ebuilds to mask and unmask packages based
    # on the platform they are set for. A special form has been added that
    # indicates packages and revisions that are expected to work, but have not yet
    # been approved for the stable set. '~arch' is a superset of 'arch' which
    # includes the unstable, in testing, packages. Users of the 'x86' architecture
    # would add '~x86' to ACCEPT_KEYWORDS to enable unstable/testing packages.
    # '~ppc', '~sparc', '~sparc64' are the unstable KEYWORDS for their respective
    # platforms. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING BUT YOUR SPECIFIC ~ARCHITECTURE IN THE LIST.
    # IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR ARCH, OR THE IMPLICATIONS, DO NOT MODIFY THIS.
    #
    ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86"

    You'll get stuff a LOT faster. I've been using that "unstable branch" (if you will) for a year and a half or so with zero show-stopper problems on 5 or so machines. OK, OK, there's a bad realease from some developer from time to time, but Portage will down-grade it next emerge -u world if there's something really bonked with a package or ebuild.


    --
    I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
    I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
  31. Re:Another freaking browser? by leonardop · · Score: 3, Informative

    Your message shows how very badly informed you are about the reasons why new browsers get developed, and Epiphany in particular. Moreover, your highly-flammable words takes away any bit of credibility and respect I would have given to your post. The reasons why this has been mod'ed up as Insightful are beyond me.

    Any way, long story short: Epiphany's raison d'etre could be resumed as follows:

    • Some people don't want the "gigantic" Mozilla binary running for most web-browsing needs.
    • Some people wants their graphical applications as consistent as possible.
    • Some people care about their applications being usable.
    • Some people realize that sitting down and coding an application that is going to be used at the very least by its developer is a lot more useful and fun than ranting about pointless drivel such as "why another web browser?" and "I think [insert project name here] has dick-envy over [insert different project name here]"
  32. Re:Browsers... by reynaert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hmmmm... maybe this is why Microsoft does exactly the same thing with Windows..... Nah. It must be because they are "evil".

    Because you can't get rid of Internet Explorer in Windows. If you don't like Epiphany, you can delete it and use Firebird or Konqueror or whatever instead, and Gnome will keep working.

    Try to install XP without IE.

  33. Re:Another freaking browser? by Telex4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You obviously didn't bother to read why Epiphany started, and why it is being included in GNOME.

    Mozilla, Firebird and Galleon are all good browsers, but none of them currently conform with GNOME's HIG, and none want to.

    To be a usable desktop environment, GNOME needs a browser that will integrate well with it, and so Epiphany fills this gap.

    Honestly, does the user care if there are five different Mozilla derivatives, each for a different desktop environment, when they have the one they want installed? It won't confuse anyone, and it will provide choice to those who might want it.

    Go back to your troll cave.

  34. Got that right by siskbc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm sorry, but this is part of the force that is killing desktop acceptance in the open-source community. Everyone, their dog, and their 2-bit Saturday whore thinks they need to develop another web browser to share with the community. Suddenly we now have, what, 40ish browsers to choose from?

    It's just chic. The problem is that everybody (being Gnome and KDE) won't be satisfied with a good operating environment. No, they have to do an entire user experience. In other words, they each want to be responsible for 95% of the graphical software used by any linux user. And that's just not rational. Case in point: KOffice, KDE's abominable attempt at an Office suite. As you say, why spend so much time making something that sucks so bad?

    For what it's worth, never let it be said that open source developers are above reinventing the wheel. When profit is not a consideration, there's no boss to point you toward making things that have a market. We definitely need a greater degree of specialization.

    I want to get the KDE and Gnome devs in two separate rooms, and lock them there until they swear never to make another browser, office suite, or useless widget again until they have the basic environment rock-solid.

    --

    -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

  35. Re:hmmm by BenjyD · · Score: 5, Interesting

    256mb of RAM should be fine. The difference in memory usage between a bare windowmaker desktop and a KDE one is about 60meg (~34meg -> ~90meg). That's worth about what, $20? Considering the vast amount of functionality that gives me, I think that's a worthwhile trade off.
    Back in the day, I was a major lightweight system zealot. I used Ratpoison or Ion at work (if you though fvwm was lightweight, you ain't seen nothing yet). Then I realised that saving 0.5 seconds on launching a terminal window didn't make me any more productive, but having excellent integrated apps like kmail and konqueror did.

  36. Re:Gnome unusable for many Unix users by riggwelter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Applications -> Desktop Preferences -> Windows -> Select windows when mouse moves over them

    --
    Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
  37. Re:current gnome 2.x issues (any devels listening? by Alan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Re: metacity vs sawfish

    I used to think the same way as you did, hated the lack of features, bitched on the lists, etc. But at some point I forgot to switch from Metacity to sawfish and grudgingly used it, and after a while, found I didn't miss the features I fought so hard to have. Pageflip is nice, but do I use it? Nope. Maybe it's just me as a user adapting to the lack of features, or maybe it's the fact that as a user I didn't really use that feature enough.

    Try this: Make a list of all the things that MC is missing vs sawfish (or The Ultimate Window Manager) and then work as you do normally and tick the times you miss each feature. I'd be willing to bet that in an honest test you'll find that you don't use them nearly as often as you think you do.

    I'm no fan of the HIG and the cutting and slashing of features in the latest GNOME, but I'm also finding that a lot of it's not all that bad, because a lot of times It Just Works.