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Can Recent MS Patents Affect Mono and DotGNU?
5p1urge asks: "I really love the Mono and DotGNU projects. As someone who's worked in Java for for over 5 years, I welcome C# and it's buddies to the OpenSource world. However, here's question: as far as I can tell, only the C# spec and System.* assemblies were submitted to ECMA and therefore made officially public. What happens when MS decides that, Linux -is- going to steal valuable income-generating business, and therefore it should use it's newly acquired patents to sue? I'd appreciate comments from IT lawyers / solicitors and individuals with experience in this area, as well as from the wider community. I'm asking this question because I want to code in mono / DotGnu but I'm cautious because I wonder if MS can take it away from us?"
inux -is- going to steal valuable income-generating business, and therefore it should use it's newly acquired patents to sue? Are they going to use their patents? Yes. Thats why the got them. If they wanted everyone to use .NET, they wouldnt have patented it.
I'm waiting for Parrot to mature. It's a register-oriented bytecode interpreter, designed for Perl 6, but with other languages in the wings. When it gets Perl's libraries, Ruby's syntax, real threads, and great speed, I think it will do well.
Litigious bastards
I wish too that software patents would meet their end, however such thinking currently is nothing more then a dream. For software patents to truly be defeated there would need to be serious and repeated challenges to them, and of those challenges thus far none have had enough force to do what we want to see happen. Keep on dreaming for now, because for the time being, software patents are a reality and here to stay for the forcible future, just like the DMCA I'm afraid.
Despite the fact that every word I said above is factual... I know I am going to get flamed for this so... let er rip...
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Another thought. Suppose they did `take it away'. What good will that do them? How many languages are there which duplicate or mimic large portions of basic C syntax and structures? It seems to me that all the Mono folks would need to do is declare that they were developing a new language using syntax similar to C#.
They could call it `D-flat'. :-)
philcrissman.com.
Your argument seems to be that only those people using Open Source opersting systems should be able to use other Open Source software. Why should this be? Would you prevent people using the GNU tools under Windows, or cygwin, or GIMP on Windows? While I think it's great when I see someone switch to Linux, the reason I think it's great is just that that person will have a better computing experience.
In the end, everyone is free to use the tools that suit them best. If they happen to find a combination of Windows and OpenSource applications ideal for them, who are we to argue?
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
Indeed. Does anyone else get the impression that M$ is getting other folk to code up, for free, their bait in a massive bait-and-switch operation?
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
and more and more sites are turning to Perl
As a Perl-head myself, I wondered where this statement comes from. To me, it seems, a lot of people on smaller projects and at the "lower end" are ditching Perl for PHP. In terms of pure number, I'd imagine PHP is growing a lot more than Perl.
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No, the courts have become very tolerant of patents with vague claims. A recent (upheld!) example is the patent on a credit-card-sized PDA, which was upheld as applying to a non-credit-card-sized PDA even though the patent didn't even describe how the small size was to be achieved.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Um, a lot of companies in Austin have it on their "skill required" list, and the Austin outlook for paying jobs right now is close to zip-point-squat. That's a good reason.
Perhaps it's the only reason. But it's still a reason.
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
Ok,
Rich Client native gui, here you have two other cross platform choices..wxwindows and SWT both which offer native, fast gui's.
Microsoft Visual Studio the best? You obviously have never used any tool from Borland which absolutely stomps a mud hole in anything that MS has ever built.
Most commercial clients might run windows but I can tell you for a fact it it does not run on Linux we ain't buying it in our shop(sounds like I just shot your selling point all to hell). If you like java and you like C# and you sell software why on earth would you lock yourself to a platform.
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GNOME distribution with Mono is DANGEROUS!
Dan, the author of the Parrot VM, has a bet with Pythong's Guido van Rossum. Dan bet Guido that Parrot can execute pure Python bytecode faster than the Python interpreter can. The battle will be decided at OSCON 2004 in Portland, OR. He sounds pretty confident:
"Boys and girls, let's get this straight. I'm only going to say this once. Parrot is an order of magnitude faster than perl 5 doing equivalent things. Without enabling any extraordinary measures. You know how Python's performance rates against Perl 5. Do the math."
Dan's blog entry about the bet: http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/000139.ht
cpeterso
Seriously, if all your programmers are hardcore VB guys why not just use VB.Net. It seems like they are not using C# in an OO way anyway.
As for fast GUI, if you are only developing for windows why not just use the WinAPI directly without going through a VM. If you want a cross platform solution try wxWindows or Kylix. And speaking of Kylix, Borland are THE leaders in RAD tools and have been for years.
I'm still trying to figure out what the whole point of C# is. It's similar to Java, but it is not cross platform, but it's not as quick as a truly native app written in VB or C++.
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
Hugh. Odd. I'm seeing it more and more.
mod_perl/Mason just took over Amazon. I see lots of signs of perl all over the web - basically anyone who doesn't drink MS koolaid and isn't into Java for whatever reason is using Perl. There's a huge hobbyist contingent that likes PHP, because it is a little easier to get started with for http related stuff, and companies like Yahoo whom for whatever reason went with it. (I'm not dissing PHP - if that's your thing, run with it.)
I still write a lot of software on web platforms for people. Most of it is Perl (some of it is C, and there's plpgsql or a similar DB language, and Javascript, and when I really have to, VB or some other MS language. Oh, and I have two Java clients.) - in fact, I'd say that ~95% of what I do is Perl, outside of database work. Sometimes you patch something or speed something up with C, and sometimes you have to deal with something else.
I forget what 8 was for.
Unfortunately, this is a bit less than true. If you aren't a member of their "patent pool", then many companies will sue you in a way that bears little relationship to fairness. (The cost of defending is generally such that such suits never see the courtroom.) Some companies are relatively benign, and IBM is an example of this. But there's nothing inherrent in being a big player that makes you benign toward those who aren't members of your club. That's up to management policy.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
No sig, sorry.
For example, a bit over 200 years back, there was a revolution in North America, and when a new Constitution was established, it restricted "IP" to a short time, and only when it advances the arts and sciences. Some economists and historians have claimed that this was one of the major reasons the US became the world's biggest economic power.
Like who? I'd love to be able to cite reputable historians and the like on American development when discussing IP growth.
I think Python/PyGTK/PyGlade is great. But let's be realistic:
Now Python has many other plus points, and I somewhat suspect the battle for the future of open source developers hearts (at least on Linux) will be between Python and Mono/C#. But, right now, for larger projects it's looking somewhat weak. It *could* be a viable competitor with some more work, but right seems to be mostly confined to smaller projects, or developers who don't feel the need for the safety net of type safety.
Funnily enough, Microsoft is tons more benign than IBM when it comes to patent lawsuit...When is the last time Microsoft initiated one?
What will Novell do if MS threatens to sue them for a couple billion $ similar to what SCO tries with IBM? What makes you think that Novell won't drop Mono like a hot iron? Remember how Novell vice chairman Chris Stone said in an interview "We just hope Microsoft isn't against the idea." With dotGNU being based outside the US, that project has much better chances to weather any storms that M$ might throw against them.