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JetBlue Gives Away Passenger Info To TSA?
Old Ben Franklin writes "In September of 2002, JetBlue Airways secretly gave the Transportation Security Administration the full travel records of 5 million JetBlue customers. This sensitive travel data was then turned-over to a private security contractor for analysis, the results of which were presented at a security conference earlier this year and the analysis then posted on the Internet." This comes after Wired News's recent article on this matter, explaining that "...the proposed government system to prevent terrorism by color-coding airline passengers according to their risk level will be tested using old passenger itineraries from JetBlue", but quoting a TSA spokesman as saying that "currently only fake passenger data was being used."
Please throw me off the plane. I am a civial, understanding american who through no fault of his own got this label attached to me and can only travel by car.
I flew them earlier this year. After already being on the plane 15 minutes at the gate a guy comes on board, calls my name, and escorts me off. Apparently they had marked me for the double-secret security scanning and failed to do it at the security checkpoint. No problems, really, and I was back on the plane about 10 minutes later in plenty of time for departure. Of course, my carry on bag was left in the overhead compartment the whole time I was off the plane.
It was the security folks who failed to do the extra scanning at the checkpoint, but it was Jet Blue's guy who got me off the plane. He didn't know and didn't care that I might have already snuck something onto the plane. If Jet Blue wants to help fight terror in the skies they'd better re-think their priorities. Paying lip-service to security is a long tradition in commercial aviation. Just think about this: if there was no law passed mandating crash-proof cockpit doors, most airlines wouldn't have put them in.
I'm quite red-green color blind. Why the fucking hell must we use color codes for such *important* classifications.
Any system beyond ROY G. BIV confuses the hell out of me, and I can't tell the diffrence between RO and G 1/2 the time making this a major issue making a judgement regarding threats, and BIV 100% of the time. Given that about 10% of all males are also red-green colorblind (according to my psych book anyway), it seems nuts to adopt yet more color codes.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
I don't know about this -- this seems a little specious to me.
I'm not saying that I don't beleive that it's impossible that JetBlue gave/sold their passenger list, but the article doesn't give any corroborating evidence other than the old "they deny it, it must be true." The file they linked to as a copy of data put up on the web also seems to be empty, so I couldn't look at what this data was. Regardless, how did they figure out that this was JetBlue's data? I'm also wondering if JetBlue even has had 5 million customers -- perhaps they meant 5 million transaction records?
I'm all for privacy, free speech, blah blah blah, but this seems pretty alarmist and reeks of, what's the term... conspiracy theory. This just doesn't add up.
Just my two cents, go ahead and flame me.
if you color code the passanger's in the traffic light way (green for "too stupid to be a terrorist"; yellow for "suspect" and red for "oh my god, he has a beard and even more, he wears a turban") and there is a suspected terrorist threat in a location of the u.s. will you deny the "red" passengers transportation? And how do you classyfy the color system? Would be interessting what happens when sombody say's there will be an attack on the white house and 5 planes with "red" passengers are on it's way to Washington DC. will they be rerouted to a save location (Nevada for instance, or maybe even Guantanamo)
".Sig Stealer" was here
Can anyone tell me why they let known Airline Terrorists fly at all??
There is some interesting data-mining being done in the document. Correlating several databases together gives you a good profile of the people on the plane, but it doesn't give you an idea if someone is a terrorist. Like the presentation sais, Find a needle in a haystack, without knowing what the needle looks like If you don't know what it looks like you won't find it. What you do find is anamolous behaviour that points to interesting people to check.
Finding these people largely depends on how much they differ from the ordinary profile. Ordinary here is middle income suburbanite. So low income ghetto dwellers get singled out time and time again. Yes they might be out of the ordinary, but it doesn't mean that they will blow up the plane.
Use Adsense for Charity
preach on, brother. i'm sick of people ignoring the most logical things just because it might be construed as racist. I don't think that I as a christian with a good italian name should be searched to even things out when the primary terrorists against the US at home and abroad have been Muslim extremists, or that a Jew named Goldberg or a Shintoist named Komatsu deserves to be treated to "equal" harassment at a security checkpoint as a muslim named Mohammed for baseless equality concerns. that's just ignorant and resource-wasting. You don't make us secure that way, you just piss us off. Plus I think it violates our constitutional rights, whether the courts believe that or not.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Same thing happened to me at JFK. Ever since taking a one-way flight to Florida for a prolonged business trip, every flight I've been on I've been labeled "SSSS." I think it stands for Super Secret Squirrel Security.. I'm not sure. Anyway I get to cut the long lines at regular security so I don't care if they think I'm a terrorist.
The usual procedure is to stamp the ticket and punch a hole into the ticket to prove that the SSSS security check was made. After my very thorough SSSS check which involved unzipping my carry on and looking under one shirt, I got my ticket stamped but no hole. I'm about to board the plane when they say I can't get on because I only have the stamp.. not the hole.
Mind you, the hole IS A REGULAR CIRCULAR PUNCH HOLE CREATED BY A 1.99 STAPLES HOLE PUNCHER.
Of course I had to walk 900 feet back to the checkpoint, as this magical punchhole proved I was clean and not a terrorist. Kinda scary, no?
Also upon flying out of Burbank airport, flagged my usual terroristic SSSS, I asked which line is for SSSS security. To which the "guard" replied "Oh we don't do that here, just go through regular."
Now of course I know that I am no terrorist, but what about others who may be? When I told a close friend who is a pilot for United about that, he freaked out and said theyd be in huge trouble if the FAA ever found out.
Needless to say the whole airport security thing is a facade of false security, regulated by mystic punch holes, dimwitted workers, and innane flagged policies - He took a one-way flight!!! He's a terrorist lets do extra security on him for the next 30 flights!!" When of course anyone looking to cause trouble would just book round trip..
How To Fly Without ID. I wonder if this will still work... and if so for how much longer.
Anybody can have your passenger info if they really want it.
Foreign airlines flying to US destinations have had to turn over their passenger manifests, incl. credit-card details and special food requirements ("No pork means....") to US authorities for months now. If they don't do so they lose their landing-right, can get fined etc.
This isn't just for "scary/suspicious countries", but for all countries. Even those allied with the US.
This is the icing on the cake, it's kinda late so I guess that's my excuse for forgetting to type it..
While leaving Burbank my "friend" had purchased a kitchen utensil set. Upon packing the luggage my "friend" looked at the 8 inch chef knife and said.. "Damn I'm gonna have to ship this back or give it away cause there's no shot in hell this is getting let on the plane in my carry-on." His brother says Ah give it a shot, if its a no-go let security confiscate it.
Needless to say, my "friend's" bag went through the X-Ray machine, and the attendant didn't even give it a glance. Remember he is flagged for extra security.. regardless of the 8 inch knife on the X-Ray, the bag has to be checked by FAA policy!!! His bag was never opened and he boarded the plane and landed with the obvious contraband aboard. But I dare the 90 year old woman to try to board with a nail clipper.
So not only was he flagged as a security risk, but he sucessfully boarded the plane with an 8 inch chef knife without anyone giving him a second glance! Of course he had no mal-intents but the whole incident shocked my pilot friend and he was furious as it showed how really terrible airport security is, and how easy a terrorist can smuggle stuff in if a regular passenger (who was flagged a terrorist!!) can get by without trying to circumvent any security.
You must be crazy to think that searching everyone doesn't "make us secure". Do you even know how much crap is confiscated from passengers during searches? My friend works for the TSA and they've confiscated, among other things, switch blades/knives, drugs (LOTS of it, and not just pot either), guns, etc... And almost all of the time these items are taken from white/american citizens.
Now imagine what would happen if that gun wasn't confiscated, got on the plane, and some nutcase decided to start firing at people for whatever reason.
Being "secure" means being certain that there are no holes in the screening process, even if it inconveniences you.
Top secret fact! CAPPS is actually only based on whether you have any medical history of any kind.
The data includes your SSN and dates of service for medical conditions and general location. Thats it.
All this fluff that is being studied by the document the contractor did is not what the FBI uses.
Basically... you need to create a fake limited medical history in the major databases sold by blue cross and others for favors to the gov.
If you have a valid passport and credit card adn back acct but absolutely no medical history tied to your SSN then you are flagged for SSSS sec line treatment.
Its that goddamned simple.
MEDICAL HISTORY this limited 5 million record jetblue database is nothing but the tip of the iceberg.
The us thought of everything but the only thing that works best is medical histories. Any history at all is "clean" and no history is suspect.
BTW : the 19 saudi nationals had no us insurance based medical histories... but then again they had other signifying traits that were indicative of being a foreigner.
I wonder why no one gets the mediacl history angle.
its 90% of the weight of CAPS II profle.
Mandatory link on why nothing short of checking everyone will work
You have the actual label on your boarding pass effectively saying that you are suspect? Ubelievably cynical! Even in late Soviet Uinon, where I happened to live good part of my life, authorities avoided to humiliate the citizens so openly. (And mind you, USSR wasn't exactly the place where personal freedoms were flourhising).
I sympathise you, and wish you best of luck. Hopefully your country will recover the freedoms and sanity that its dwellers were so proud of.
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
So if I have a record of flying to "rouge" states every now and then, plus I don't eat pork I'm guessing I get the "red" or whatever color means I'll get a plastic fork whereas John next to me gets the tiny metal fork (both which are still inferior to a shoelace for hijacking a plane).
But this kind of information is already used when you shop with creditcards, everytime you get a directed ad because you ordered something in the past etc etc. In my opinion, using some real data (e.g. travel history) in the security is better than the system of harassing people for looking foreign or whatever. Just don't supply more personal information than you need when flying and your privacy should be ok.
Also, if you are a terrorist, wouldn't you fly with a brand spanking new identity every time? Perhaps the color code to start with should be the most dangerous, and frequent flyers should earn their green code with their frequent flyer miles? Only after a couple of flights could you expect anything less than a full cavity search? =)
Glad this forum has an AC feature.
Prior to 9/11/2001, a large majority of UAE and Saudi students studying at Wazzu (Pullman, WA) were called back to their home countries by their parents. I only have knowledge of WSU, but I don't imagine that this is the only university that this occurred at.
These students are mainly from the ruling families in those countries, their parents are emirs, sheiks and the like. That they all somehow got called back at the same time is simply no coincidence. If these families were made aware of these upcoming attacks through an intelligence network, it appears that the U.S. intelligence network is not quite up to the level that it should be. If these families were made aware of the attacks through personal sources, the U.S. government must find out what connection these families have with the terrorist networks.
Using past data to predict future events has always been a tricky situation, but the more dangerous trap is beleiving that if your model works with a set of past-data, that it is good. An excellent comparison is the stock market and people who try to predict it - sure, you can do a super-duper model that fits well with the data that fed it, but it ultimately fails when handed new data. If it worked, there would be a whole lot of very rich people out there.
Stock market modeling seems like it would be much easier: you've got daily data on every single company going back 100 years, plus a whole lot more detailed financial information than you could ever get out of passengers (what's your book-to-bill ratio?). To top it off, performance can be measured in one absolute indisputable figure - profit - that is an attribute of most companies, whereas security has a fuzzy performance measurement(*) and few examples of what officials are looking for.
Another thing that concerns me is that, AFAIK, the jet blue travel database contains precisely zero hijackings, so it seems to me that -- according to any possible model that could be generated -- the old system worked perfectly and could not be improved. Nail-clipper weilding maniacs, sure - plenty of those, but no actual hijackers.
(* Pop quiz. Who killed more people, 9/11 or the airline "security" procedures that followed? If you added the expected life expencties of the people who died that day and got an hour number, that number is on the same order of magnatude of the extra time wasted in airports every year)
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
I recently took a flight the other day and the passenger before me with his laptop only had to open the bag and show it to him. They however made me take off my shoes, open my case and take my laptop out and used a pair of forceips to wipe some sort of cloth around my laptop. Even over the screen which I was none too happy with.
Who's to say that they have not already started testing this system on actual travelers.
Also international travelers will not have any sort of credit profile so WHY do they have to include OURS as part of the system. It makes me sick how it's acceptible to discriminate on people becuase of poor credit.
As an example I have a score right above 650 but am currently a State Farm customer for my Truck's insurance. I decided to shop around to see if there were alternatives that were cheaper.
Geico and Progressive both quoted double my current premiums. When I asked a manager of the similarities at Progressive he responded both companies set your rates based in part on your credit profile. I asked what difference does it make on my driving and he said people with poor credit tend to drive worse.
I'd say that's bull since I know people that are well off and they drive like a bat out of hell. I had though that by being a responsible driver I would be rewarded but that's obviously not the case.
The point here is that credit ratings have nothing to do with how dangerous people are. I would question the Unibomber's credit rating if he had one at that time and what it really was.
I'm also sure that Tim McVeigh had good credit also.
Quoting:
JetBlue Airways confirmed on Thursday that in September 2002, it provided 5 million passenger itineraries to a defense contractor for proof-of-concept testing of a Pentagon project unrelated to airline security -- with help from the Transportation Security Administration.
The contractor, Torch Concepts, then augmented that data with Social Security numbers and other sensitive personal information, including income level, to develop what looks to be a study of whether passenger-profiling systems such as CAPPS II are feasible.
Note that JetBlue has a privacy policy on their website that includes this statement:
The financial and personal information collected on this site is not shared with any third parties, and is protected by secure servers.
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.