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Xbox Boss Admits Mistakes, Bashes Nintendo

Posted by simoniker on from the shy-and-retiring-guy dept.

Thanks to C+VG for their interview with Microsoft's Peter Moore about the state of the Xbox, following on from their recent interview with fellow Xbox bigshot Ed Fries. In this piece, Moore talks about early problems for Microsoft's console, saying: "I look back at the first E3 Xbox had and it was an unmitigated disaster. But that was a wake-up call." He also discusses the company's rivalry with Sony, saying: "It's difficult to expect Xbox to challenge PS2 when the starting gun had gone off a year and a half before and it was already on the third lap", before turning on Nintendo: "I think Nintendo is surprised - it's kind of slipped away from them pretty quickly over the last couple of years. I don't think they really anticipated how well we would do in the business."

68 comments

  1. Hrmmmm.. by HolyCoitus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    He's talking about Nintendo struggling, but isn't the Xbox having a battle with Nintendo for second place for worldwide sales? If Nintendo is struggling and lagging behind, and the fight for gaming hardware supremacy is between the Xbox, PC, and PS2, why isn't the Xbox outselling the Gamecube? Last time I heard, wasn't Nintendo slightly ahead of them?

    --
    That's scary.
    1. Re:Hrmmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft isn't looking at this internationally. They're doing a nice job of keeping Nintendo #3 in the US, and that's where this "We're #2!" attitude comes from.

      Until Microsoft can do a decent job in Japan (yeah, I know, not likely to be anytime soon =P), they'll still be #3 (or lower) in the major center of console gaming.

    2. Re:Hrmmmm.. by burns210 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      and that is not even including the gameboy... o good lord, that thing is selling like mad.

    3. Re:Hrmmmm.. by M3wThr33 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All of MS's statements are heavily biased.
      Their console:game purchase ratio includes the two-in-one disc you get when you buy it(As if there's any other way), and their definition of worldwide is "USA, Europe and Australia." They also issued one when DOA:XBV was released in Japan and made the XBox outsell the Cube for one week. They compared sales of a GAME to sales of a CONSOLE. That's BS considering at the SAME TIME Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire was out for over 2 months and in that SAME WEEK outsold the entire Japanese annual XBox console sales. How about the one when they recalled the XBox over the spinning disc during ejection? They didn't expect Japanese gamers to be so finicky. Great, insult your customers. . .
      And after seeing their top sellers be Dino Crisis 3 and DOA:XBV, their current strategy is to release more American games to boost sales.

      See, they aren't admitting half their troubles.
      Every press release you have to read, pay attention to the details for real desperate humor.

      And yes, GCN is leading worldwide. So far this year 300,000 PS2s were sold, 144,000 XBoxen and 100,000 GCNs(3:1.5:1). Compare that to 30,000 PS2s, 15,000 Cubes a week and 900 XBoxen a week in Japan(3:2:0.07). The ratio is heavily weighted outside of English-speaking countries.

    4. Re:Hrmmmm.. by torpor · · Score: 1

      Yes, incidentally, in the New Global Economy, aren't these "outside of English-speaking countries" supposed to be a new source of global wealth and economic stability?

      Nintendo, for some reason, seems to have no problems being sold in downtown markets where nobody speaks English.

      Wonder why that is, exactly?

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    5. Re:Hrmmmm.. by CptChipJew · · Score: 1

      Don't the Japanese buy way more video games than Americans?

      If so, I would think that ought to be the focus.

      --
      Vonal Declosion
    6. Re:Hrmmmm.. by WasterDave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the fight for gaming hardware supremacy is between the Xbox, PC, and PS2, why isn't the Xbox outselling the Gamecube?

      Because it has - and I think this is becoming clearer over time - absolutely nothing to do with hardware.

      Modern PC's are vastly more powerful than any of the above. The PC as a platform, however, is screwed. Really. I'm a really typical maturing gamer: Software engineer for a living; Own home; Recently had first child. My PC doesn't even have a hard drive in it right now. Between using an iBook for "computer" tasks, gaming on the PS2 and the rapidly declining (for me) LAN party scene - I'm done. The upgrade for HL2 and Doom3 is going to be somewhere in the vicinity of NZ$2k. I can get Jak and Daxter 2 for $120, or GT4. Hell I played an hour and a half of GT3 this morning - two years after getting it. It's an amazing value proposition.

      All this fails mention that my upgrade fee will include feeding our friends in Redmond, feeling sick about it, and suffering the resulting security hell ... not to mention the debugging shitfight that LAN parties have managed to devolve into. Honestly, why bother? This was supposed to be fun.

      Looking purely at console hardware I think it has become clear that the PS2 is, at it's core, phenomenally weedy. Almost exactly a 300MHz MIPS core bolted onto a Voodoo3. Where it shines, of course, is when the vector engines get going ... but it's a fucker to code for.

      I believe, based on very few actual facts, that the GC has a lot more grunt than we give it credit for.

      What I find more intriguing is the relationship between the three companies and the software development community. Do we, as developers on the fringes of the industry, matter? Microsoft certainly think so, and the "piece of piss" portability from DX8 to the XBox has lead to the development of maybe half their games.

      Sony think so, a bit. PS2 Linux is a step in the right direction, and I imagine that gaining a PS2 development license is made significantly easier by having the basics of your stuff going on Linux before you even ask.

      Nintendo really don't give a shit and are quite open about it.

      Should they care about us? Given that it's a million dollars just in artwork to ship an FPS now, are any blockbusters really about to appear out of the back bedrooms? Is it the Halo's and GT4's that are responsbile for the majority of earnings, or does the enormous library of "b league" playstation games have an equally important part to play?

      If anyone knows, I'd be interested to find out.

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    7. Re:Hrmmmm.. by M3wThr33 · · Score: 1

      And the ironic thing is that their top-selling title, Pokemon, requires the person to read a heavy amount of text.

    8. Re:Hrmmmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      And yes, GCN is leading worldwide. So far this year 300,000 PS2s were sold, 144,000 XBoxen and 100,000 GCNs(3:1.5:1). Compare that to 30,000 PS2s, 15,000 Cubes a week and 900 XBoxen a week in Japan(3:2:0.07).

      You mean PS2 is leading worldwide, right? Every list I see has Sony's machine firmly in the top spot. Even your numbers support that. Not that I personally think it deserves to be there, but the truth isn't always what we want.

    9. Re:Hrmmmm.. by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about the one when they recalled the XBox over the spinning disc during ejection? They didn't expect Japanese gamers to be so finicky. Great, insult your customers. . .

      They didn't insult their customers. The spinning disc issue didn't hurt the disc or the system. But a urban myth sprung up over there that it did, so many Japanese wanted their console replaced. I like Japan, and I like Japanese culture, but there is only so much you can expect MS to do when it comes to Japanese xenophobia.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    10. Re:Hrmmmm.. by M3wThr33 · · Score: 1

      Leading the XBox for 2nd place. Sorry, most of these discussions are about 2nd place now that Sony has dominance.

    11. Re:Hrmmmm.. by Tofuhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wish these xbox threads could manage to keep one basic truth in mind: Xenophobic Japanese consumerism is a myth! It's a standard cop-out that foreign goods manufacturers use whenever _they_ fail to design something the Japanese would want to buy. Anyone who has been to Japan can confirm this. Many young Japanese people (the same segment who plays the most games) are particularly keen to non-traditional, non-Japanese trends - as long as they are well-made, functional, and/or fashionable. Things have been like this _since the war_. Analyzing the xbox, it fails the "well-made" criterion because of the widely-publicized disc-scratching debacle - serious or not. It fails the "functionality" criterion because of the dearth of Japanese-style software support. Finally, xbox fails the "fashionability" criterion because it is anything but cute or sleek; instead, it is HUGE.

      When a product suits Japanese tastes, it doesn't matter where it's made or who designed it. The xbox simply does not serve this market at all. Not a single aspect of its hardware design or software lineup was created with "conquering Japan" firmly in mind - "Project Midway" misnomer be damned. That is why it sells piss-poorly in Japan, and that is also why it sells relatively well (despite its flaws) in the U.S. It was designed to suit Western tastes, glossing over flaws that Westerners would not consider important (like huge system size, huge controller size, low Japanese 3rd-party support, the tacky puke green system highlights, etc.). When their flagship title is an FPS and they have no strong offerings in the form of linear or strategic RPGs, party games, mascot platformers, puzzles, or even freaking arcade shooters, Microsoft is NOT targeting Japan. They are targeting America and Europe, the lands of Quake-happy h4x0rs who grew up in PC-centric (not arcade-centric) cultures.

      A final thought: If Nintendo had released the xbox hardware and its software lineup, and Microsoft had released the GameCube and its software lineup, do you really think Nintendo would still be outselling Microsoft there, hand over fist?

      < tofuhead >

      --
      It is still the dark of night.
    12. Re:Hrmmmm.. by Rayonic · · Score: 1

      I wish these xbox threads could manage to keep one basic truth in mind: Xenophobic Japanese consumerism is a myth! It's a standard cop-out that foreign goods manufacturers use whenever _they_ fail to design something the Japanese would want to buy.

      This is generally true, but there is a grain of truth in their arguments. For instance, one of the complaints about Final Fantasy XI in Japan was that it seemed "too American." But that probably didn't cause it's low sales as much as the fact that it's an MMORPG.

      --
      [PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
    13. Re:Hrmmmm.. by Tofuhead · · Score: 1

      I think you said it yourself. FFXI hasn't met expectations because it is an MMORPG -- not because it was "too American" -- and MMORPGs don't fare extremely well in Japan. I don't really think it would have mattered very much who designed FFXI; the very fact that it is based on a game genre that is not traditionally popular in Japan * is a dead giveaway as to why it isn't doing as well as hoped. I don't think xenophobia has much to do with it; it's from Square Enix, after all.

      * I have known Japanese people who were fans of Ultima Online and Phantasy Star Online, so please note that I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that online games are nonexistent in Japan.

      < tofuhead >

      --
      It is still the dark of night.
  2. Yeah, Nintendo is surprised. by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As Nintendo swims in profits, they probably are surprised by Microsoft. They're probably surpirsed that Microsoft doesn't even seem to care if their console is profitable. Sure, Nintendo may not be making the profits they're used to, but when the competition is willing to flush money down the toilet all day to woo your customers, a half a billion a year in profits is nothing to shake a stick at. Nintendo is in it for the money, and they certainly know how to rake it in.

    1. Re:Yeah, Nintendo is surprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure K-Mart had a similiar view of Wal-Mart at one time.

    2. Re:Yeah, Nintendo is surprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does that have to do with anything?

  3. Bashing? I don't think so. by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "I think Nintendo is surprised - it's kind of slipped away from them pretty quickly over the last couple of years. I don't think they really anticipated how well we would do in the business."

    Honestly. Did anyone think the Xbox would do as well as it's doing?

    --
    I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  4. Re:Bashing? I don't think so. by Incoherent07 · · Score: 1

    No, actually, I underestimated the number of exclusive hit games it would have: it has one so far... and it's not going to be exclusive for much longer.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
  5. i think everyone is surprised.... by u-238 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    hell even im surprised... here i am sitting with an xbox, halo and a few other games, not even giving GC an ounce of thought, when previously NES, SNES and N64 to an extent had been my favoirte of all consoles

    1. Re:i think everyone is surprised.... by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      here i am sitting with an xbox, halo and a few other games, not even giving GC an ounce of thought, when previously NES, SNES and N64 to an extent had been my favoirte of all consoles

      I think it might be slightly different for those of us that didn't buy an N64. In fact, I never owned an SNES, either (but I knew many people that did). My XBox has 2 exclusive games that I really spend any time with, and I think everyone knows what games those are (and they'll both be PC games soon enough). The rest of the games that I spend any time with on the XBox are multi-platform titles that simply came out better on the XBox.

      My GC, on the other hand, is getting the most play, by far, and I have more titles for it (most of which are exclusives or DC ports) than I do for the XBox, despite having bought the XBox 6 months earlier.

      As for the next generation of consoles: I think I'll end up owning all of the major ones again, eventually, but I don't think Sony's going to be high on my prioritized list this time around. In any case, I'll put some cash aside for the console and wait until the first must-have (for me) game comes along before I buy a system. Unfortunately, all 3 consoles had must-have launch titles for me, and they ended up just being bought in order of priority.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  6. Obsessed by big N? by imperator_mundi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's interesting that the name of Nintendo can be found on almost every paragraph... why spend your time talking about #3 when you already are #2?

    Well, indeed it could be that being #3 while making money still funnier than reach the 2nd place loosing millions on the way to.

    1. Re:Obsessed by big N? by mraymer · · Score: 1
      The xbox is #3 in worldwide sales, you insensitve clod. ;)

      I'm sure Nintendo is pretty happy being second place in the global market.

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

  7. Peter Moore by Locky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Peter Moore used to work for Nintendo of America in a pretty high position. During the course of a week where he quit to work for Microsoft his comments varied between

    'Nintendo is in a firm position to claim back the market, yada yada yada'
    To

    'Microsoft is in a firm position to claim the market, yada yada yada'

    The insight to the industry this guy gives is directly relevant to who he is working for.

    1. Re:Peter Moore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, he was the President and COO of Sega of America during the Dreamcast years. It was only this year that he left Sega and joined Microsoft. Sorry to nitpick.

    2. Re:Peter Moore by Locky · · Score: 1

      Ah, you're quite right. I stand corrected. Was that Peter McDougal that went to MS, or was it another Moore?

    3. Re:Peter Moore by k_187 · · Score: 1

      Ken Lobb went from Nintendo of America to MS about a year and a half ago. You know the guy the Klobb gun in Goldeneye was named after.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    4. Re:Peter Moore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to let you know, it's "Peter Macdougall", and he's currently Executive VP of Sales and Marketing. He took over from Peter Main, who retired early last year.

    5. Re:Peter Moore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love the moderation done to this post. The Xbox fanboys have modded you up to (Score:4, Insightful) - but your post is completely wrong! :) Lovely!

      Peter Moore was head of Sega of America. If you read any of the statements he made about the Dreamcast during its final year, and can imagine him keeping a straight face, you KNOW what to think about his statements about the Xbox.

      This is the man who drove the Dreamcast into the ground, by overspending on advertising for the American market, then arrogantly strutting around industry events like he was saving the company. This is the man who had mobile advertising trucks driving through San Francisco on the PS2 launch day, for goodness' sake. (Did anyone else flash back to "C:\ONGRTLNS.W95" when they saw these things?) Then he jumped ship.

      Peter Moore is a shark, and he has finally found appropriate bedfellows with which to consort. Sure beats used car sales.

  8. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Yeah! What did Japan ever do for us? Nothing! Well, except invent video games...but that doesn't count because that country obviously sucks for some unspecified-but-nonetheless-surely-legitimate reason.

    Oh! I know! Because the Japanese don't buy the original poster's favorite console. That makes them evil somehow.

  9. Xbox Live mentioned.... by unclethursday · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Moore mentions Xbox Live in Japan. Ironically, because the Xbox has such a poor marketshare in Japan, the Xbox Live tie in ratio is almost 1 XBL to every 3 Xboxes.

    But I find this quote funny:

    Our customer satisfaction levels with Xbox Live are through the roof - they love it.

    I wonder, then, why it is that many of my friends and myself get quite bored of Xbox Live games rather quickly? Hell, an Xbox fansite editor mentioned in one of his own pieces on the site (article here) that his entire Xbox Live usage to date of the article was around 40 hours over 8 months.

    My usage is slightly more than that, but not by much by my esitmates. Probably less than 80 hours since November for me. My Xbox isn't even at my house right now.

    And Moore also seemed to not mention the flatlining of Xbox Live sales since before May....

    Thursdae

  10. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by unclethursday · · Score: 3, Informative
    Peter has the credentials to talk about this, for he used to work at Nintendo.

    Poor troll. Can't even get his facts straight. Moore was at Sega, not Nintendo.

    DOH! Guess that hurts your troll. Sorry.

    To be honest, the Cube is a laughing stock with modern day gamers who are content with their Xbox or PS2 (I know I am).

    So, that's why the Cube has just over double the million plus selling games over the Xbox?

    Xbox million + sellers (worldwide):

    Halo

    Dead or Alive 3

    Project Gotham Racing

    Splinter Cell (not exclusive to Xbox)

    GC million + sellers (worldwide):

    Luigi's Mansion

    Super Mario Sunshine

    Resident Evil (remake)

    Resident Evil 0

    Animal Crossing

    The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

    Super Smash Bros. Melee

    Mario Party 4

    Metroid Prime

    Yep, laughingstock.

    Thursdae

  11. Standard Procedure by Mirkon · · Score: 1

    Almost every Xbox-related press release, interview, or other news item from Microsoft concludes with a statement to that effect. I can remember several that end with something along the lines of "...reaffirms the Xbox's position as number 2."

    Like Linux, Nintendo competition is something that they like to write off as inferior without really publicly regarding.

    --
    Glog!
  12. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That seems like a misleading stat to me. How many titles total are there for each system? Because it seems to me there are far fewer for Nintendo, giving the similiarly sized user base fewer options on games to purchase.

    How bout TOTAL game sales?

  13. Sega! by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

    He worked at Sega, not Nintendo.

    --
    There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  14. Re:Bashing? I don't think so. by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Honestly. Did anyone think the Xbox would do as well as it's doing?

    Doing well? You mean that having one fifth of the PS2's marketshare is considered "doing well" now? Man, I must have stepped into bizarro world by mistake...

    When the XBox came out, their expectations was Total World Domination and crushing the PS2 and its "inferior hardware". It never did.
    Turns out that their "superior hardware/graphics" was (what a surprise) totally overhyped. The Xbox's graphics are ever so slightly better than the PS2's, but their software offerings are greatly inferior.

    They aren't doing well, they are struggling for 2nd place, wich is acceptable, but is failure if you take into account their initial plans.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  15. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 1

    There are not vastly more titles available for the XBox than for the GameCube. According to Game Rankings there are 429 GameCube titles, and 591 XBox titles. (There are 1005 PS2 titles).

    --
    MORTAR COMBAT!
  16. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by clu76 · · Score: 1

    Another point to consider is how much profit Nintendo and Microsoft makes from these top sellers. 1st and 2nd party games make much more money than 3rd party games.

    Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, Animal Crossing, Zelda, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mario Party 4 and Metroid prime are all 1st/2nd party Nintendo titles. Microsoft has Halo.

    --
    the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
  17. Re:Bashing? I don't think so. by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    When the XBox came out, their expectations was Total World Domination and crushing the PS2 and its "inferior hardware". It never did. Turns out that their "superior hardware/graphics" was (what a surprise) totally overhyped. The Xbox's graphics are ever so slightly better than the PS2's, but their software offerings are greatly inferior.

    Key words. THEIR expectations. Hell, Nokia probably things the N-Gage can actually compete with the GBA. Thats not the point. You had the Xbox fanboys, and then everyone else thought the Xbox was a joke. Considering all of that negative press up until and shortly after release, if it is now battling for second place against Nintendo, an established videogame entity with your first console attempt...that is still an impressive feat.

    Of course the graphics are overhyped. What do you expec? When was the last time a company didn't overhype its own system.

    --
    I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  18. UNdoing moderation. by Inoshiro · · Score: 1

    Accidently chose "Funny" instead of "Overrated" on your ludicrous post. While it's funny that you could post that Peter Moore was NOA (maybe you're thinking of Howard Lincoln), when he used to work for Sega, it's also a bunch of useless crap.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  19. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ah, but don't forget, Xbox is the ONLY console in the history of consoles to solve the '2.4 games' problem.

    Most people buy a system, buy X number of games, and they're done.

    Get an Xbox, get Live, and suddenly Microsoft is profiting from you *ongoing.* Oh, and you're getting a good service for your money.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  20. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by clu76 · · Score: 1

    Nintendo has a different solution to the 2.4 games problem. Profit on the hardware sold, everthing else is icing on the cake.

    The problem with the Live service is that it can potentially slow the sales of other games buy extending play life of what people already own. Which is good for consumers. Not so good for the game companies.

    I have Live. I doubt I'll renew my subscription.

    --
    the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
  21. Re:Bashing? I don't think so. by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

    You had the Xbox fanboys, and then everyone else thought the Xbox was a joke.

    Oddly enough, a lot of people in he industry were expecting the xBox to be huge(market wise, not physically, wich it is). People actually thought that microsoft would achieve in the console world what it did in the PC world.

    it is now battling for second place against Nintendo, an established videogame entity with your first console attempt...that is still an impressive feat.

    It would be if a few years ago Sony hadn't come up with its first console and bitch-slapped both Nint and Sega. The 2 industry leaders of the time. Sega has since all but died (not in software, but in hardware its dead and buried), and now nintendo is becomming obsolete. Sure, its the only real player in the hand-held niche right now, but Sony is gonna do it to them again it seems...

    The next generation of consoles will be and interresting fight. PS3 ought to win that one too (they have a winning formula), we'll see if nint keeps slipping and microsoft keeps climbing.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  22. Super Mario Bros 3 Superplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.emptylogic.com/suprnova/torrents/299/sm b3.torrent Bittorrent file for an amazing video of Super Mario Bros 3. It's pretty sweet, I'm spreading the .torrent link everywhere that I can.

    1. Re:Super Mario Bros 3 Superplay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it doesn't bother you that the emulator is obviously running at 150% speed? "60 minutes" indeed.

  23. 4th paragraph is telling... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

    Unless you can clearly differentiate

    BZZZZT! That obviously isn't Microsoft's strategy.

    or you're willing to spend billions of dollars in losses

    Ding ding ding ding! I think we have a winner!

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  24. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by JFMulder · · Score: 1

    What do you mean Microsoft only has Halo as 1rst party title?

    Taken from their website :
    Inside Pitch 2003
    Midtown Madness 3
    NBA Inside drive 2003/2004
    Grabbed by the Ghoulies
    Halo
    Mechassault
    Sudeki
    Project Gotham Racing 1 and 2
    True Fantasy Live Online
    NHL Fever 2004
    Voodoo Vince
    Top Spin
    Fable
    Kamero
    Kung Fu Chaos
    Brute Force
    BC
    Rallisport Challenge
    Counter-Strike (well, they are distributing it)
    Crimson Skies
    Nightcaster

    And the list continues...

    Okay, so not all of these games are million sellers (at least, Halo, Nightcaster and Project Gotham are), but Microsoft has a lot of first party titles and a lot of them are interresting.

  25. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by troyg · · Score: 1

    I believe he was referring to titles that had sold more that 1 million copies.

  26. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by JFMulder · · Score: 1

    Then, after a little digging on the Xbox website, here are the million sellers from Microsoft Studios :
    Amped
    Blinx : The time sweeper
    Bloodwake
    Oddworld : Munch Odysee
    Rallysport Challenge

    There may be some others, but they're not on the Platinum Hits collection yet, like Halo for example.

  27. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft is NOT making money on Xbox Live. Their worldwide numbers are around 500,000. There are many individual games that sell higher than that figure, in one region alone, but XBL is supposed to be more ubiquitous than any indivual game to be considered successful, right? After all, it is part of the platform itself, used with any games that are XBL-enabled. So for any games that RELY on XBL to reach high sales figures, those buyers would need to have purchased at least one XBL kit (let's be generous, and for Microsoft's sake, pretend that there was even one title that sold at a 1:1 ratio with the XBL kit). Nintendo even pointed out how much better Metroid Prime on the GameCube did than XBL (150% as much sales, at the same price) in their first several weeks on the market together, and again, that's just one game.

    Plus Microsoft's first year numbers for XBL are lower than Sega's numbers for the Dreamcast's Sega.net, which had a monthly fee. That's quite poor, considering again that XBL's numbers are worldwide, while Sega.net was USA only (and for a "failing" system).

    People think Xbox Live is a success because that's what Microsoft keeps telling them. That's all.

  28. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You have a link? Xbox.com isn't exactly a small website and the search engine is pretty much worthless.

    Incidentally being part of the Platinum Hits line doesn't mean it sold over a million copies. The bare minimum for Xbox Platinum Hits is 350,000 units.

  29. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by JFMulder · · Score: 1

    Here you go.

    I wasn't aware though that platinum hits were only for games that sold over 350,000 copies and not a million. So maybe some I named weren't million sellers then.

  30. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Halo (soon to be multiplatform), Splinter Cell (already available in enhanced form on all other consoles), PGR, and DOA3 are the only million sellers on the Xbox, when you combine sales from all regions internationally. So, if you want to be generous and say that Bungie's Halo is a Microsoft-developed title, we can say that Microsoft themselves have produced only two games that have hit the million mark. This is far lower than the number of Nintendo's and Sony's million sellers.

    Microsoft's minimum sales figure to be considered as a Platinum Hits title is 350,000. Compare Nintendo's Player's Choice line (minimum 450,000) and Sony's Greatest hits line (minimum 250,000), and you will see that both Sony and Microsoft consider even lower-selling games "successes," while Nintendo is much stricter about which games are worthy of mention. That would explain why the bargain bin of throwaway games is huge for PS2, and descendingly smaller, in turn, for Xbox and then GameCube. And really, the only "hits" line that features real marquis titles is Nintendo's Player's Choice line, no question about it. Except for Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid, and Virtua Fighter 4 on the PS2, I can't think of more than a few must-have games that are available as either Greatest Hits or Platinum Hits titles.

  31. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    So maybe some I named weren't million sellers then.
    I'd be surprised if any of them are.
  32. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by quecojones · · Score: 1

    Don't get me wrong here because I'm not disagreeing with you (assuming you were being sarcastic). I beleive that the Japanese have made contributions to gaming and all that, but are you seriously saying that the Japanese invented video games?

    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the first video game called Space War and developed at some college/university in the U.S. (I want to say MIT, but I'm not sure... memory is kind of fuzzy on that point)?

    --
    "PROFANITY is the inevitable literary crutch of the inarticulate MOTHER FUCKER." -- some PC user
  33. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by JFMulder · · Score: 1

    You're right when you say that Microsoft in itself didn't make Halo and Project Gotham Racing, but since these games are distributed by Microsoft, my guess is that these games fall under the 2nd party kind of game, which is more profitable to Microsoft than games published by Namco or Capcom.

  34. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

    Get an Xbox, get Live, and suddenly Microsoft is profiting from you *ongoing.* Oh, and you're getting a good service for your money.

    MS is only profiting 'ongoing' if they can not only sell a large number of Live kits, but can also get people to resubscribe.

    The number of kits they've sold is lower than any of the titles mentioned earlier. They haven't released much information on how many people have resubscribed, though at this point it would only be the earliest adopters of Live that would be resubscribing. I, for one, will not buy a Live kit until I have a significant number of titles I want to play online. Currently the number is 0, though the XBox has many online titles, they have none that appeal to me.

    I love having the ability to connect my system to the network and do things of that nature, but a subscription is only worth the cost if I am going to use it, and without games I'm not going to use it.

    --
    -PainKilleR-[CE]
  35. Re:Maybe if you're an 8 year old boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, one of the disillusioned gamers who disregards gameplay over graphics! If you honestly don't like "Celda" solely on the way it looks, you're missing out on one hell of a game. You poor soul.

  36. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

    True, but it gives the developers a much needed kick in the arse.

    This is why EA Sports hates Live; when Madden 2004 comes out, same great taste, differnet set of stats, they want to be able to turn off online play for Madden 2003, and force you to upgrade.

    Under the Live paradigm, you'd just offer up the new stats/roster for download. If you want people to buy 2K4, you better have a more compelling reason than 'we need the cash.'

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  37. damned americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans invented the video game and it was an American company that almost buried the entire industry before it was even born...

  38. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by clu76 · · Score: 1

    Under the Live paradigm, you'd just offer up the new stats/roster for download. If you want people to buy 2K4, you better have a more compelling reason than 'we need the cash.'

    I'm not 100% positive. But I'm fairly certain EA has to pay a lot of money each year to the NFL to use the new stats and roster. If EA provided the new stats/roster for free, they would lose money. EA doesn't make a penny from the XBox Live service. So EA couldn't even cover their upgrade costs if they wanted to.

    --
    the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
  39. Re:Peter knows what he is talking about. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

    Well, that's a problem for EA, isn't it?

    This might explain why they do what they do.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  40. Re:Maybe if you're an 8 year old boy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, pigfucker, if you a) take Gamespy seriously, b) dismiss SSBM with nothing more than a "no," and c) think that Metroid is poor by any standard, then...well...I guess there's no arguing with someone like that. My condolences to your family.

  41. It's the blockbuster games that make money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently it is those titles around the top selling 15-20% that rake in all the money with all the others struggling to break even and avoid losing money. So it's the Matrixs, Halos, Zeldas and Grand Theft Autos, Half Lifes and various EA sports games that actually make money with nearly everything else actually causing a loss.

    Development costs have spiralled upwards with each new generation of hardware and some suspect that games may become prohibitvely expensive to develop for all but the largest developers on the next generation.