Lawrence Lessig To Debate Hilary Rosen At USC

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Lawrence Lessig To Debate Hilary Rosen At USC

Posted by timothy on Monday September 22, 2003 @01:59PM from the social-engagement dept.

An anonymous reader writes "On October 21, the University of Southern California will be hosting a public debate entitled "The War Over Music: A Debate". On stage and at odds: your favorite RIAA chair/CEO Hilary Rosen and law professor/cyber-rights guru Lawrence Lessig. Admission is $10 and open to the general public. If you'll be in Los Angeles and would like to attend, buy your tickets early."

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In the red corner by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-22 14:05 · Score: 4, Funny

from the recrordingindustryassociationofamerica HILLLLLLLLLARY RO-O-0-O-OUZEN,

in the black corner, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, the heavyweight champ, LLLLLLLLAWWRENCE LESSSSSSIG!!!!

(uproad in the public, bookies running around actively taking bets)
Welcome ! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-22 14:11 · Score: 0

I, for one, welcome our new Hillary overlords, be they from the RIAA or from Arkansas...erm. New York.
Webcast? by BrynM · 2003-09-22 14:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is bound to be one hell of an interesting debate. I hope they at least do an archive webcast of it. It doesn't look like they're doing a live one.

--
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
1. Re:Webcast? by corbettw · 2003-09-23 04:14 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  "This is bound to be one hell of an interesting debate. I hope they at least do an archive webcast of it. It doesn't look like they're doing a live one."
  
  I don't know, there might be copyright concerns with a Webcast. What if a copy ended up on KaZaa?
  
  --
  God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Prediction by Henry+V+.009 · 2003-09-22 14:22 · Score: 5, Funny

Lawrence Lessig will cream Rosen (has she argued a case before the SCOTUS?). Afterwards, the RIAA will push Congress to pass a new copyright law on public debates, with a recommended life sentence to anyone supplying a transcript without the permission of all parties. Rosen will claim victory, and when Lessig tries to use the transcript to correct her, the government will disappear him to Guantanamo Bay.
1. Re:Prediction by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-22 14:31 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  You slashdotters use too many acronyms. What does SCOTUS mean?
2. Re:Prediction by macdaddy357 · 2003-09-22 14:34 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  SCOTUS n. A highly sensitive patch of skin between the legs running from the genitalia, to the anus.
  usage: Yo, Bitch! Lick my Scotus!
  
  --
  How ya like dat?
3. Re:Prediction by abulafia · 2003-09-22 14:40 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Either Macdaddy is right, or it means the Supreme Court Of The US.
  Common acronym used by people who talk about, well, the Supreme Court Of The US.
  Used interchanably with the less popular USSC and SCUS acronyms. Additionally, some people call them "God", but that usage is generally only used by people who are attempting to get clerkships.
  
  --
  I forget what 8 was for.
4. Re:Prediction by CokeBear · 2003-09-22 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  SCOTUS is an acronym for Supreme Court of the United States. It came about after the President started being referred to as POTUS, and the first lady as FLOTUS. Anyone else know of other OTUSes?
  
  --
  Reality has a liberal bias
5. Re:Prediction by Snowspinner · 2003-09-22 15:02 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Redding?
  
  --
  Philip Sandifer's academic website
6. Re:Prediction by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-22 18:13 · Score: 0
  
  GSOTUS. Every nation needs an official distended colon.
7. Re:Prediction by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-23 01:39 · Score: 0
  
  Using the verb cream might be ill-advised, especially considering that the genders of the participants are appropriate...
Pay-for-play radio plan. by uncoveror · 2003-09-22 14:23 · Score: 1

Will she be talking about the RIAA's pay-for-play radio plan?

--
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
1. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by araemo · 2003-09-22 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  If that link is true..
  
  well, it just means the RIAA REALLY won't get any of my money.. as I only ever discover new bands on the radio, and if I have to pay for that, I won't listen, cause as sturgeon's law says, 90% of everything is crap, and I'm not paying to hear 90% crap.
  
  And since I won't learn about new bands.. I won't buy any new CDs/DVD audios/etc.. becuase I already have what I want, and fair use DOES exist, so I can keep putting songs from my CD's onto new media(Hell, if I want to, I can rip them to a lossless audio format, then burn(as in combust) the CDs, so I still only have one copy, then use my portable player as my backup copy.)
2. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by LuYu · 2003-09-23 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  Is the Uncoveror trying to compete with The Onion or something?
  
  Perhaps this would be funny if it were not for the fact that the radio stations do not pay royalties to anybody. Broadcasts have been exempted from royalty payments since they were first included in copyright law. Actually, the RIAA members pay the radio stations to play their songs through promoters. Internet radio does not enjoy this exemption. This is why the internet radio crowd was crying foul recently.
  
  So, while the RIAA cracks down on music file sharing, the billion dollar a year radio industry pays nothing.
  
  If Uncoveror is trying to compete with The Onion, they should write more realistic articles.
  
  --
  All data is speech. All speech is Free.
3. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by LuYu · 2003-09-23 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  UPDATE: The Onion did have an article like this. Here is an example of what good bogus journalism is about. I got it from this post.
  
  --
  All data is speech. All speech is Free.
4. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by MindStalker · 2003-09-23 03:48 · Score: 1
  
  Actually I think radio does have to pay composer royalties.
5. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by macdaddy357 · 2003-09-23 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  Why do The Onion's fans think no one but them can do satire and parody? It would be lame if there were only one source of them. Maybe these Onion people aren't really fans, but employees plugging their product. Besides, The Onion doesn't even have anything cool like Batboy. Weekly World News is funnier than them any day.
  
  --
  How ya like dat?
6. Re:Pay-for-play radio plan. by uncoveror · 2003-09-23 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  "Radio stations do not pay royalties to anybody."
  Maybe you don't call them royalties, but they pay licensing fees to ASCAP and BMI for each song played, just as any venue with live music, a jukebox, or karaoke is required to do, and these funds are distrubuted to copyright holders.(Some bars don't pay, and hope not to get caught, but that's another discussion, and a long one.)
  While these fees are a pittence compared to the payola radio recieves from promoters, they do exist. Either you misunderstood the article you read about webcasters, or someone who doesn't understand how it all works was directly quoted. Webcasters can't afford to pay the fees because they don't have the massive revenue streams of traditional broadcasters. That's why they were crying foul. I agree that webcasters are getting screwed, and I you make a valid point about payola, but you are wrong about radio not having to pay out royalties.
  
  --
  The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Um, Rosen Isn't the Head of RIAA Anymore by gwynnebaer · 2003-09-22 14:37 · Score: 3, Informative

It's Mitch Bainwol, the former GOP whipping boy.
Not that it would matter. If anything, Ms. Rosen might be more at liberty to discuss issues than before, now that's she no longer a hired gun.
Rosen ought to sound... by Ieshan · 2003-09-22 15:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Rosen ought to sound about as "smrat" as Bush in a spelling-bee.

Yes, the typo was intended. Stop nitpikcing.
hmm by SHEENmaster · 2003-09-22 15:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

The big deal that won't be discussed is that the record company steals profits from artists by only paying artists for 90% of records sold, ignoring the other 10% from the time when shellac records would break in transit.

It's not stealing when I copy your work, as I'm not depriving you of property or profiting from it. It is stealing if I agree to pay you $0.20 per copy of your CD I sell, when I actually sell you $0.18.

--
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Hilary Rosen speech (Mar 2003) by glassesmonkey · 2003-09-22 16:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

A few highlights from a speech given at the Natl Assoc of Recording Merchanisers Annual Convention on March 17, 2003 by then RIAA Chairman & CEO, Hilary Rosen:

(It is long but there a few gems towards the end)

. . .

We are all at a critical juncture in our relationship with music fans and now is our opportunity to put their interests first. Not ours. I firmly believe that when the music consumer is well served, so will we all be as well.

Consumers' needs from record companies have become more complicated but they start with the same basics. Fans want great music. Their perception of cost is directly related to their perception of value. (ED: so, you do get it that we think the crap you are putting out over the last few years is worthless) They want music in more formats than we give them. They want deeper catalog more easily available. They want to know when their favorite artists have a new record coming out. They want a way to make compilations without feeling guilty or like criminals. They want us to find a way to solve our piracy problems without encroaching on - or even talking about - their personal use flexibility. (ED: so major press releases and public policing campaign is quietly solving the problem, eh?)

I want to give you a brief overview today of why I am confident that the music industry is positioned to recapture growth in future years. (ED: I'm confident that indies are positioned to capture some of your market share) And since piracy is near the top of everyone's mind as the variable that will either make or break that growth potential, I want to give you some detail on some of the strategies we are undertaking to address that problem.

Think about it. The challenges we have faced as an industry with Napster and its clones are in many ways unprecedented in American commercial history. There we were rockin' along, producing and selling great music and producing enough revenue to not just support everyone, but also to grow the opportunities around the world for a bigger and bigger business. Then suddenly we wake up one day and everything we have worked so hard to build is being offered to consumers for free or for a scant dollar on the street corner. Not 10 percent off. Not reduced interest rates. Not negotiated payment schedules. Our product is suddenly being offered to consumers for absolutely nothing.

...
Finally I must talk about enforcement. I want you all to have the very latest information about what is being done to fight piracy directly at the sources.

First and foremost, I believe that we should not be ashamed to protect our rights. I am tired of those who suggest that because sometimes someone is a music fan or a technology innovator or even, god forbid, a teenager (ED: How profetic) or a student that they have a right to steal. They don't. We know too many people who suffer from the consequences of that insensitivity to buy that self-serving argument.

Where would this business be without strong laws to protect intellectual property and more specifically copyrights? I would not be here; none of us in this room would be here. (ED: Hmm.. I guess I see the root of the problem now) Copyright are the rules of the road that encourage and ensure that creators bring forward new art every day. The right to decide how and when to reproduce, perform and distribute your works.

It may seem obvious, but it should not be overlooked. It is the guiding principle and philosophy of what the RIAA does, and the stake that retailers have in this principle is significant.

In addition to street piracy, we all are, of course, confronting the epidemic if of illegal downloading occurring on p
1. Re:Hilary Rosen speech (Mar 2003) by macdaddy357 · 2003-09-23 01:00 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't it pretentious how the leeches and hangers on in the recording industry claim to be in the music business. Composers and performers are in the music business, not the parasites at the labels, or Hilary Rosen. File trading isn't theft, it's the digital ages radio, and the best form of promotion music ever had. Dont'Buy CDs until the recording industry cleans up its act.
  
  --
  How ya like dat?
2. Re:Hilary Rosen speech (Mar 2003) by John+Biggabooty · 2003-09-23 01:11 · Score: 1
  
  There was a story in The Onion about the RIAA suing radio stations for giving away free music last October. It's not on their site any more, but the text of it, minus pictures is on the Wayback Machine. Check it out!
  
  --
  That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
3. Re:Hilary Rosen speech (Mar 2003) by LuYu · 2003-09-23 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Hilary Rosen:
  Where would this business be without strong laws to protect intellectual property and more specifically copyrights? I would not be here; none of us in this room would be here.
  One can only wish this were true...
  Such beautiful things do not actually happen in this world, do they?
  
  --
  All data is speech. All speech is Free.
Steps by coolmacdude · 2003-09-22 17:54 · Score: 2, Funny

Lessig:
Step 1, pick 5 really sucky artists.
Step 2, Throw em millions in marketing $$ and flood the radio stations with nothing but their music.
Step 3, PROFIT!

Rosen:
Bullshit! You dirty liar. Everyone knows it goes like this.
Step 1, Sell good music.
Step 2, If people don't buy, sue pre-pubesc... oh wait, crap. I mean... uh
something to do with content, I think, umm... uh... How much is tuition at Stanford?

--

-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
Hmmm ... a modest proposal: by melquiades · 2003-09-22 18:04 · Score: 1

To be fair to Rosen and the RIAA, Lessig debates with a handicap.

And to be fair to practically everyone else in the world, congress legislates with a handicap.

What kind of handicap, you ask? Not exactly sure ... some sort of ... I don't know, I'm thinking out loud here, bear with me ... some sort of set of ... limitations on their powers, you know, a sort of ... charter or something like that, maybe something that gives them only a few specifically enumerated powers to work with, powers which ... er ... consistute the government, you know, to limit their ability to enact unreasonable laws....

Anybody ever heard of anything like that? Some Canadians out there, maybe?
1. Re:Hmmm ... a modest proposal: by MikeBabcock · 2003-09-23 01:23 · Score: 1
  
  Canadian here ... limited powers? You mean like our knee-jerk "lets be like the americans" post-911 laws that have been almost entirely repealed?
  
  Don't know what you're talking about ;-)
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
2. Re:Hmmm ... a modest proposal: by melquiades · 2003-09-23 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, one can always hope.
  
  Guess the snow isn't whiter on the other side. (I live in MN.)
3. Re:Hmmm ... a modest proposal: by Discoflamingo13 · 2003-09-24 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  If we are truly going to limit Lessig's debating skill, we're going to need some Kryptonite, dimensional shackles, or a bondage dwarf that kicks him in the stomach every thirty seconds.
  
  And no - the wit and irony is not lost on me.
Will there be a -d'loadable- MP3 of this debate?? by ivi · 2003-09-22 18:43 · Score: 1

I really enjoy[ed] the likes of TechNetCast.com
and other sites where I can download audio &/or
video of talks after the fact.

I really hope this debate joins the list of
online material (preferably in MP3 format)

(Just today I got a mix of TechNetCast.com
is "under construction" -&- "for sale"?!?)
Buy your tickets??? by ThyTurkeyIsDone · 2003-09-22 22:00 · Score: 3, Funny

If you'll be in Los Angeles and would like to attend, buy your tickets early.

Nah, I'll just download one from KaZaA.
So... by theCoder · 2003-09-23 00:07 · Score: 2, Funny

Will tomatoes and other rotten fruit be made available with the cost of the ticket, or will you have to bring your own? :)

--
"Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
Can someone record this for us? by 7-Vodka · 2003-09-23 01:25 · Score: 1

If it's like my uni, they will be broadcasting this on the local uni tv channel. Can someone record this for us and encode it to xvid or divx and spread it online? If it isn't on tv, can someone set up a camcorder please? I'd like to see this debate.

--
Liberty.
Adminssion is 10 dollars... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-23 03:05 · Score: 0

ADMISSION SHOULD BE FREE!!!!

If I can't afford to legally buy CDs then I certainly can't afford to fork over 10 bucks so see the debate.
1. Re:Adminssion is 10 dollars... by Technician · 2003-09-23 03:25 · Score: 1
  
  Are you kidding? It should be on Pay Per View! They would make a killing. Just stick in some prize fight as a lead act to the real fight. Entertainment doesn't get much better than this.
  
  --
  The truth shall set you free!
I'll be there by mmmmmmmmmmmmz · 2003-09-23 23:11 · Score: 1

[Sorry if this is being posted a second time] I am a student at USC, and I'm definately gonna be there...I'm gonna sneak in a tape recorder if I can, and if one of my friends have a vid camera [or someone in LA would loan me one :) ], I could try and hook some stuff up... Or I can try and make friends in the A/V dept...
If you had one question for Hillary by mmmmmmmmmmmmz · 2003-09-23 23:16 · Score: 1

I'm a student at 'SC. I've been to some of these debates and forums before, and sometimes if there is extra time at the end, audience members can ask the guests questions. There are so many questions, it's hard to choose, so if you could ask her 1 question what would it be? ...Because that might be what I ask her at the end, if I get a chance...

Fight On, Trojans!
Hey, we are too by El_Rancho · 2003-09-24 00:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

Wow, this is close to home. I am a student at Texas A&M, and the specifics are cloudy, but late in October we are having a similar program. We are hosting the vice-chair of the MPAA, lead counsel for RIAA, a US Rep (whose name and significance I am not sure of, but who I assume has a hand in copyright legislation) and a local "DMCA enforcement agent," whatever that is. I believe the format is going to be just each of them telling us what we could go to jail for, and then lots of Q/A at the end. I'm already putting together a list of toughies for them, so....
If you could ask the lead counsel of the RIAA or any of those other folks one thing, what would it be?