Channelized DS3 with Linux?

minion asks: "We've been struggling to find a channelized DS3 card for Linux that is a standard PCI format (not CompactPCI, mPCI, etc). I find it hard to believe others out there don't want the same, as a lot of ISPs could save a lot of money this way, since Cisco routers that handle channelized DS3 *start* at $30,000! I've found this card, but that is all that I've found. It would be great to dump our current Cisco, and use it as a spare if our Linux router fails. Does anyone else have some experience with this?"

Comments

What does this card run anyway

[MerlynEmrys67]

So you never specify how much this DS-3 card runs you. I can't see volumes being that high, so I am assuming it is a multi-hundred dollar card (and not breaking into the thousands). That said - are you planning on a reliable Linux Router (multi power supplies, redundant yada yada yada's) or just a low end box with a couple of these cards thrown in.

If you are talking about the former - you might be suprised to find out you won't be much under 30K (those reliability things are expensive), if not - how much are you willing to give up in reliability (6 9s w/ Cisco - 3 9s with Linux + cheap hardware) and what is the cost of the downtime.

If you all ready have the Cisco kit (you did say you would run it for redundancy) - why change a working configuration for Linux ? Is it because "Linux is cool" or is there a business reason. If it is the former - I doubt you will be successful. If it is the later do the analisis above and see what the answer really is

eBay?

[LarryRiedel]

I think <10kUSD can get a used 7200 series router and channelized DS-3 (PA-MC-T3) card on eBay, not that I am recommending that approach, but it is a common configuration.

Larry

7206, FlexWan and some PA cards.

[Zeio]

I don't know about $30,000. I have a FlexWan, which is a PA card adapter for the 6500's [which is the pricey but elegant way to go], and a PA-T3 and on the 7206VXR. They can be had for much less than $30,000, especially on ebay, but you can get prices down on Cisco if you aren't dumb enough to pay MSRP. You can also get PA-T3+ and PA-2T3+ for your FlexWan or 7200.

Here is a 7206VXR for ~$8000 that has what you want.

I'm no great fan of IOS, I much prefer Junos and my Juniper M10, but you'd be psychotic to even pretend a PC [despite the fact that Olive/Junos is based on FreeBSD from the PC, but each PIC uses network processors] could handle a T3 the way a Cisco or Juniper could. Yeah, its not very much bandwidth, but there are a lot fo interesting things these real pices of equipment can do for you.

Also, using a monitor OS like IOS and network processors is a lot better than interrupt driven crazyness that goes on in a PC.

In fact, I have a spare spare PA-T3 card I would sell you.

Random thoughts...

[FreeLinux]

The thought of relying on a standard PC to drive/frame/time/switch a DS3 makes me nervous. There is a lot to be said for Application Specific Integrated Circuits(ASICs), which is what the Cisco uses.

Cisco's routers are expensive. Perhaps Nortel, Juniper, Foundry, Fore, Riverstone, etc might be less expensive but offer similar functionality and reliability.

How many channels are actually needed from the DS3? A Cisco 3600 can drive up to 12Mbps on a HSSI interface and would cost a lot less the $30,000 but, you couldn't go beyond 12 Mbps.

How much does a DS3 cost you? In my area, the monthly cost of such a circuit is such that a one time cost of $30,000 for hardware is really no big deal.

Re:Random thoughts...

[krangomatik]

This kinda goes back to what I was saying here and here. Again, we need more information from the requestor. Driving 12Mbps out of a HSSI might not meet their needs if they are going channelized to pull a bunch of DS1s into a DS3. I can't really think a way off the top of my head to do that with a 3600+HSSI without your telco/upstream doing some fancy stuff. One way the telco could do it is term the DS3 on one of their boxes and hand the traffic back off to the customer across a point-to-point DS3 terminating on a customer 3600+HSSI router. That would take a lot of the control out of the hands of the customer and would cost the telco a bit of money. I'd imagine the cost would offset the savings of buying a 3600 with a HSSI instead of a 7x00 with PA-MC-T3.
I've agree with you that if you can't justify a one time $30k cost that you've got to think really hard about what you're doing. Maybe the original poster works in public sector where you can often get dirt cheap telco rates so the one time equipment costs look really really high compared to monthly recurring.
The more I think about this Ask Slashdot the more I want to know the driving factors behind it. Perhaps a channelized DS3 isn't the right solution for them. I really wish they'd given us some insight into their design goals with this project...

WHY?

[lostindenver]

as my grand pappy said: Use the right tool for the right job... You could use juniper or nortel. But just do it right.

Maybe?

[FreeLinux]

PCI Adapter

PCI Adapter

Linux Router Page

Why would you want to?

[Sandman1971]

Question is, why would you want to? Most ISPs will 'lease' you a router when you get any type of dedicated internet connection. They also have this little thing called SRA or MTTR (Service Repair Agreement or Mean Time To Repair). If your router blows, they'll replace it in a matter of hours. If you own your own equipment, you'll either have to buy a spare (doubling your price) or suffer long downtime (How long of a downtime are you willing to afford?). ISPs also buy routers in bulk. So what may cost you 30,000$ for a Cisco router, ISPs pay a fraction of that. (And I dunno where you got that it starts at 30,000$.. there are much cheaper routers that will do channelized DS3, including in the Cisco family). You also have to think... going the Linux route... what happens if the motherboard blows, or the power supply, or the harddrive, or the NIC cards? You'd prety much eed a complete 2nd system as a backup. What about vulnerabilities? If this is out on the net, Cisco IOS is much more stable and secure than a linux box. How many man hours are you gonna spend patching stuff, compared to just leaving the Cisco router alone cuz it's not affected? If you do need to upgrade, upgrading IOSs is a joke. This isn't some dinky little home DSL connection where a Linux router is better than a 50$ Linksys router. You're trying to make yourself intelligent, but really, get a clue.

PCI Bus Speeds

[FreeLinux]

33Mhz X 32 bit PCI = 1 Gigabit
66Mhz X 32 bit PCI = 2 Gigabit
66Mhz X 64 bit PCI = 4 Gigabit

Actual throughput for each of these bus types is a bit less than the theoretical values above. However, having multiple 54Mbps cards on a single 33Mhz PCI bus should not be a problem from a bandwidth perspective.

Re:PCI Bus Speed Limitations?

[DetrimentalFiend]

If the PCI bus couldn't handle 54Mbps, then why would people have 100bT cards much less gigabit (and 10 gigabit on the way)?

There's a REASON Cisco line cards are expensive

[pyite]

It's not as if Cisco has no competition and can charge whatever they want. The reason Cisco chassis and line cards are so expensive is because they are GOOD and FAST. For example, the Catalyst 6500 has a 32Gbps backplane and with a SFM, a 256Gbps Switch Fabric. Fast WAN connections are generally only used on networks with large LANs and such organizations can justify something like a 6513, which loaded with a few cards, clocks in around $125,000.