How Do Managers Rate On-line Universities?

pstreck asks: "I've been going to a traditional university part-time for a couple of years now and am finding the pace slow, and classes to be at inconvenient times. So I have been considering transferring to one of the on-line universities like ACCIS or the University of Phoenix. How do you managers look upon a degree from one of these universities?"

Comments

A Degree is...

[Evanrude]

Unless you are looking for a job that requires a Masters or Ph. D. most managers just appreciate the fact that you took the time to go to school. Having a degree demonstrates to them that you can be taught and are willing to learn. Most of the time, where it comes from isn't a critical factor.

Re:A Degree is...

[bwalling]

Unless you are looking for a job that requires a Masters or Ph. D. most managers just appreciate the fact that you took the time to go to school. Having a degree demonstrates to them that you can be taught and are willing to learn. Most of the time, where it comes from isn't a critical factor.

I completely disagree. If I post a job on Monster for a programmer, I'll get 100 resumes in no time. University of Phoenix and community colleges are sorting to the bottom, unless there is some solid work experience to bring them back up. There are just too many other candidates with better credentials.

The other major factor is what you majored in. I'm not looking for only CS majors, but I'm looking for people who majored in something that will make you think. I want Mathematics, Physics, or an engineering degree.

I recognize that there are good programmers with Marketing degrees or degrees from UoP. I don't want to spend a lot of time in interviews, and selecting difficult majors from strong universities gives me a better chance of finding a solid applicant in fewer tries.

Alternatives to the slow pace

[FreshMeat-BWG]

I always felt that the university classes were slow and watered down. As such, I got books on varying topics that interested me and not only read them, but made myself complete real projects with the newly learned skills (not the cheesy example projects in the books). I picked up several skills this way.

The cool part was that when I went to interview for jobs, I had a lot of knowledge on varying subjects in the interview. The interviewers either didn't ask where that information came from or were impressed that I had gained that information from my own personal studies.

Sure, you can probably rush yourself through an online U faster than brick and mortar, but in my case I was better suited to take my time in school and use all of the slow time to expand the breadth of my knowledge.

Just because you didn't learn it by getting a sore rear end in a classroom doesn't mean you can't put it on a resume.

you dont have to spend much time on HW or in class

[stonebeat.org]

UOP claims that you dont have to spend much time on HomeWork, or in Class. It is for people with Busy Schedules.
I didnt know learning was so easy. If you want to learn something, you have to make sacrifice. I remember when I was in school for Computer Science, I spent close to 40+ hours/week for my final project and classes.
I understand that people who have fill-time jobs, and families dont have that kind of time, but as i said earlier, learning requires sacrifice. If you dont have time to take 2-3 classes, just take 1 class/semester at a regular uni.

Think about.

[FreeLinux]

Hello Bob. I hear that you graduated from Harvard/Berkley/MIT/UVA, that's great!

or

Hello Bob. I hear that you graduated from the University of Phoenix online school. Tell me about that. Zzzzzz

Can you do the work?

[awerg]

Currently, I am a project manager and I do not care if you have a degree or not, only if you can actually do what is required for the job. If you are going to define success in education as a degree, then you should graduate from the most impressive University you can. However, in hiring for projects Cert's mean more than a degree. They are tangable and directly apply to the job. I have found that people who invest the time in their education are the same people who will invest the time necessary to learn and complete the tasks assigned to them. But, you can get more milage from attending classroom training on relevant topics than on a degree. It may not be the best thing in the long term, but to get a job today, you must have something that separates you from the rest of the resumes. Just my .02

Depends what they're looking for

[cperciva]

If the manager is looking to sign off on a checklist (position foo needs a masters or higher degree in bar), then online "universities" are wonderful -- they'll give you a piece of paper which allows you to claim that qualification.

If the manager -- or anyone else -- is actually looking for the degree as a sign that you are qualified for a position, having a "degree" from such an institution is only going to hurt you, because it shows that you look for the cheapest and easiest way of getting a piece of paper rather than looking to obtain a real qualification.

You know what people say about MSCEs? This is the academic equivalent.

Even more important:

[base3]

Regional accrediation. If you ever want to go to grad school, or if your employer is savvy about this, the "accredidation" claimed by some schools isn't worth a hill of beans. (ACCIS, in fact, used to be the AICS, which claimed accredidation from the bogus "World Association of Universities and Colleges.")

There is a list of accreditors recognized by the U.S. Department of Education--make sure your school's accreditor is on it, and verify with that accreditor that the it accredits the school--before you spend your first dime.

Also, even though the Distance Education and Training Council (through which AACIS now has accredidation) is a recognized accreditor, a degree earned from an insitution accredided by it will not be as well regarded as one from a school with regional accredidation.

depends on subject

[dh003i]

Some things can be taught well from a distance. For example, mathematics, economics, philosophy, history, computer pgoramming, and so-on and so-forth. Some things, however, can't be taught particularly well from a distance -- like biology and chemistry, which usually require hands-on interaction with professors.

I don't doubt that you can learn more quicker from an online course. The idea that everyone needs to be stuffed up in an auditorium with a lecturer droning on and on to learn anything is as dated as oil-lamps. Real learning isn't achieved by passively sitting back and barely making it through lectures awake. Real learning is done by actively pursuing information that you think is useful and interesting. I learned more about economics in the week it took me to read Human Action than in the 6 weeks it took me to complete a boring and useless introductory economics course at the University of Rochester. Real learning is done by actually thinking about things, not slavish memorization (though memorization is important).

So, basically, I think the idea that online courses aren't as good as live courses is bullshit. If anything, online courses weed out those who can't hack it better, because with an online course, you are completely responsible for taking the initiative. It's very easy to just not do the necessary work when you can schedule it for anytime you want. Quite frankly, I think employers should be impressed by those who set aside their "leisure time" away from work to actually learn something.

Of course, what impresses individual employers will vary. However, a piece of paper from Harvard is just that -- a piece of paper from Harvard. It doesn't prove that you can hack it anywhere. On the other hand, someone without any little certificate may be able to hack it anywhere he pleases; you may have to volunteer to work on a trial basis for free for a week or two, though. Sufficed to say, if you have the knowledge, talent, and work-ethic, employers will recognize that.

State of education

[the Man in Black]

I think it says something about how we as Americans perceive education when we have to look at it from the viewpoint of "Can I get a job with this?". Education is it's own reward, in that it gives you options in life, not just the workplace.

Least that's what I think. Personally, with s omuch of America's workforce working 50-60 hours a week (at least us IT types), it can be an impossibility to go get a post-graduate degree. I hope the idea of online coursework becomes more prevalent for this reason. It will give those of us with the will but not hte time the chance.

Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl

[acousticiris]

UOP claims that you dont have to spend much time on HomeWork or in Class.

Having attended the local UOP classes and now being a UOP Online attendee, I can tell you that there are stark differences between the two. I found that the UOP standard classes were, IMHO, about equivelent to the local community college (which I also attended for a semester). There was a reasonable amount of homework and if you failed to achieve the minimum requirements that a college would expect of a student, most of the professors would reflect that in your grade.

The online university was quite different. The first thing I realized was that it was the first time in a university setting that I actually learned something.
You have to realize that the people in most of your classes are presently employed doing the things that you are learning. Because of the participation requirements, you learn far more from the students themselves than you ever learn from a university class at an undergrad level.
An outline of the typical class goes as follows: Each week you are given 3-4 questions about the reading/lecture that you must answer (different requirements per class on what constitutes an answer but usually a 100/200 or so word essay style question is asked). In addition to answering the questions, you are expected to post well-thought-out replies to the answers of other class mates (typically minimum 3 reponses per day for 5 days out of the week). This is your participation grade. In addition to that grade, you receive a grade on written assignments (usually 2/3 per week depending on the class, content, and professor).
Then comes the group project that starts in week 2. You are given a major project that you must complete in a group setting with 3-4 other students. The projects range from introducing 2/3 more written assignments per week to just a single large (report style) project you have to complete at the end of the class.

I was very surprised at the extent of work each class required. Now, of course, there are professors who will let you get away with doing next-to-nothing, who relax the participation restrictions (including one who didn't get the notice that I dropped his class and gave me a full passing grade in week 3...even though I had done none of the work) But you get that kind of crap in the university setting. The things I didn't get in the university setting was a group of professors with Master's degrees who had been working in the field (after degree completion) for at least 2 years. It's amazing going to a computer class being taught by someone who is presently employed in the field talking about the *real world*, not some BS set of concepts that programming instructors teach that when you get to the "First Job" you realize are done completely differently.
And I'll tell you, if you're aiming for a 4.0 in the class, you spend an hour or two per day just doing your participation requirements. You also dread landing a class where there are too few or too many students (too few means you can't come up with posts to make your participation grade, too many means you spend two hours reading through replies).

Re:That depends

[clonebarkins]

That depends on how much the university cost. I would be more willing to take seriously an online degree that took a couple years and several thousands of dollars to complete then a quickie diploma that cost a couple hundred bucks.

Then have I got the course for you! Send me a couple of thousand dollars (cashier's check or money order please -- no personal checks) and I'll get back to you in a couple of years....

Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl

[dagnabit]

Very interesting comments. I just started at UoP -- my 2nd class started last night. I have been considering switching to the all-online version due to travel requirements for work, the slow pace of the classroom, etc.

One thing I'm [f|c]urious about is the Microsoft requirements/bias throughout the UoP classes and websites (have to use Powerpoint to do your presentations and interact with the SmartBoards, stuff distributed in .DOC format, etc.). For example, it appears to me that you *have* to use Outlook to participate in these online classes. Is that true -- some sort of custom Outlook plugin/extension? -- or will any mail/news reader work?

Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl

[iamcadaver]

2 hours a day reading posts....
Why does that sound so familiar?

How I qualified ACCIS as my university of choice

[Gunfighter]

I am currently enrolled in the ACCIS BSCS program. I've been programming for years, but felt it would benefit me to take the next step and actually get the experience and, more importantly, the degree.

I did two years of undergrad at Virginia Tech back before the dot-com boom beckoned me into the Hells of the corporate world, so when it came time to decide whether or not ACCIS would be worth my while, I called the Virginia Tech Comp Sci department. One of the professors there was nice enough to speak with me. I asked him to look over the ACCIS BSCS curriculum for me and let me know if completion of that curriculum would be considered a good step towards entering the graduate studies at VT for a Comp Sci Masters Degree.

As soon as he emailed me back and "yes, it looks like a good curriculum and will more than satisfy the requirements for CS graduate studies at VT", I enrolled. I know you don't have to have a degree in any certain discipline to take graduate level courses, but he has a doctorate or two (including Comp Sci) and gave his stamp of approval. That's good enough for me.

Now if only I can actually get some time to do the work. It's hard with all of these website review requests coming in ;)