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Valve Updates On Half-Life 2 Code Leak

Posted by simoniker on from the fear-for-your-hax0r-lives dept.

Thanks to ShackNews for their updated report from Valve boss Gabe Newell regarding Thursday's leak of the Half-Life 2 source code. He says: "We're still finding machines internally that have been compromised" in relation to the "infiltration of our network" that led to the code leak, and warns that other developers may also be in danger: "There's anecdotal evidence that other game developers have been targeted by whoever attacked us." But he ends with a hopeful appeal to those who've been helping Valve hunt down the culprits online: "I've been fielding calls from the mainstream non-games, non-technical press all day. Hopefully they will get to report shortly what a mistake it is to piss off a whole bunch of gamers and get them hunting you around the Internet."

119 comments

  1. Two machines on every desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope that the folks at Valve now know that they need two machines on every desk, and two networks. If they had such an arrangement (with one of the networks COMPLETELY disconnected from the Internet) this would never have happened. A company with the money that Valve has can afford this level of redundancy. I hope Valve implements something like this now (and pretty much ANY gaming or large software facility) to prevent problems like this in the future.

    1. Re:Two machines on every desktop by hajejan · · Score: 1

      Even more likely: Why would workers need internet access at all?

      Okay, not the most popular view in the world, but many companies would do a lot better without the distraction of the internet. e-mail can always be put through a heavily firewalled and filtered system, but why in the world should everything else be enabled?

      I hate to say this, but if I were to run a company like this, I would have a computer room where employees can chill, drink coffee or whiskey (hey, creativity comes from the strangest places) and surf the net - not unlike an internet cafe, and they'd have to work when sitting at their desks.

      On a completely different note - this is probably why HL2 was delayed, and it might mean the end of Valve. Bad news, in other words.

      The exciting thing would be, of course, if there is another gaming house behind the spying (industrial spionage by, say, Microsoft Games?), or if there are some advanced, yet short-thinking scriptkiddies on the loose?

      --
      The Mini Repository - more links
    2. Re:Two machines on every desktop by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 0

      "Why would workers need internet access at all?"

      Because, generally, workers are more productive, happier and less stressed if you trust them, cut them some slack to organise themselves and don't isolate them from friends. In several situations I have encountered where the "internet only via one machine during your one 10 minute break a day" policy introduced productivity has gone down, workers have spent more time off ill and morale as a whole dropped through the floor.

    3. Re:Two machines on every desktop by arkanes · · Score: 2, Informative
      Developers more than anyone need network access - documentation for libraries, IM communication with third parties that are providing those libraries, just using the internet as it was intended - as an information storage medium to look things up when you get stuck. The relaxing and stress release benefits are important too.

      It all goes back to the same old crap - employers expect total, slavish obedience and loyalty but aren't willing (as a general rule) to give anything back for that. Just being able to blow off steam about an annoying problem (or even co-worker) in an IRC channel does more for my productivity than any other single benefit. Certainly more than any company picnic or other "morale building" exercise.

    4. Re:Two machines on every desktop by Paladin128 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Umm... this happenned because of email. This happenned because they got a trojan via Outlook.

      Also, as a developer who worked for 6 months at a company without net access... it sucks. No access to online developer resources. We wrote enterprise-level backup software that ran on NT, Linux, UNIX (Solaris, Irix, HP-UX, *BSD, SCO, AIX, and a bunch of others I can't remember), Novell, OS/2, and a host of others I can't remember. Getting info from various online publications was a chore. Whenever we downloaded a file on our lone internet terminal split by 40 developers, we had to burn it to CD to take it to our desks. We NEVER ran Windows Update because we couldn't, and the sysadmin didn't have time to do it during his down time, so we had to live with bugs.

      Not giving programmers Internet access is one of the dumbest things a company can do.

      --
      Lex orandi, lex credendi.
    5. Re:Two machines on every desktop by anonymous+cupboard · · Score: 1
      Most places where I work that have 'interesting source or data' have a machine with no email and very limited internet access (i.e., heavily firewalled) for development and a separate box with the usual level of access for office productivity (?) apps but the firewall wasn't quite so harsh. Production was on a completely separate network (with an airgap).

      Hardware costs nothing now. The real issue is system and network administration time.

    6. Re:Two machines on every desktop by Slime-dogg · · Score: 1

      I believe the poster is suggesting something like a laptop on the desk for the internet/email/public network, then having a separate development network with the huge-ass workstation for the development. Makes sense to me.

      --
      You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
    7. Re:Two machines on every desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Two machines on every desktop


      And a chicken in every pot, and a car in every garage...

      I'm sorry, I'll stop now ;P
    8. Re:Two machines on every desktop by 693746 · · Score: 1

      Developers more than anyone need network access - documentation for libraries, IM communication with third parties that are providing those libraries, just using the internet as it was intended - as an information storage medium to look things up when you get stuck.

      This is why the parent post suggested two machines on each desk: one for email, IM, web documentation and all that, and one without internet access, but with access to internal source code and other IP. Each not accessible from the other.

      Erik

  2. I don't see why by silan · · Score: 0, Interesting

    they stored the source on a computer connected to the internet in the first place, and further, I don't see why they didn't take it off once they noted the suspicious activity...

    It's fishy

    1. Re:I don't see why by NSash · · Score: 1
      I don't see why they stored the source on a computer connected to the internet in the first place

      Geeze, where do YOU work, the CIA? Maybe in paranoid-spook land you consider commiting your code to memory every night and destroying all copies "common sense." However, most people don't. The assumption is if you're sitting behind your corporate firewall, you're safe. (And if the IT department is doing its job, then you are.)

      The truth is, no matter how good security is, it's almost impossible to defend against an inside job. Just ask the chaps down at Los Alamos. So, there's very little point in a corporations like Valve taking great lengths to secure themselves against what is just one possible vector for an information leak.

    2. Re:I don't see why by silan · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The assumption is if you're sitting behind your corporate firewall, you're safe. obviously in this case that was a very bad assumption to make... Neither can I say I agree that keeping the source on a seperate network is taking great lengths, especially not compared to using the extra resources for an IT department requires and trusting it to do it's job. Keeping the source seperate is simple and foolproof solution to the threat of attack from the web. It's one less thing to worry about.

    3. Re:I don't see why by silan · · Score: 0

      oops bad formatting, sorry

    4. Re:I don't see why by neglige · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it's almost impossible to defend against an inside job

      Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but (IT) security firms generally estimate that 80% of (computer) crime come from inside a company (a disgruntled employee, low security passwords, bribes, taking data home from work etc.). Only 20% of all attacks happen from the internet. The numbers may be a bit outdated, but I doubt they have changed significantly.

      I totally agree with you. Security can never be 100%, no matter how many gimmicks or firewalls you install.

      --
      My cats ate my karma. They also wrote this comment.
    5. Re:I don't see why by Aliencow · · Score: 1

      How do people attack from the web ? They go through some Apache server hole?
      Damn Interweb, too complicated for me !

    6. Re:I don't see why by silan · · Score: 1

      p||y

  3. Re:GPL found? by NSash · · Score: 2, Informative

    The person was probably talking about bits of the Havok engine, which is used in HL2. (Although the Havok engine is actually released under the LGPL, not the GPL.) Now, before anyone starts shooting his mouth off about "stolen GPL'd code" in Half-Life 2, Valve purchased a commercial license for the Havok engine, so there's no foul play here.

  4. Re:GPL found? by Wonko42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    From what I've read, there was apparently an initial knee-jerk reaction by some Slashdot dorks claiming that there was GPLed code in there, but a followup post by someone who wasn't retarded pointed out that the code in question was licensed under the LGPL, which allows for such uses.

  5. Hate to say it by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, I really hate to say it, but I'm sorry to see the source go down (Valve says that they're asking websites to take it down -- not sure if that translates to asking or sending legal threats). I'm skimming through a copy of it that I downloaded with some interest. It's not often that you get such insight into game development (post-mortems are interesting as well, but source hasn't been neatly edited). While I doubt a commercial gaming company would ever swipe code from Valve (too much potential damage -- if there's even a 10% risk of exposure, they're better off just licensing it.) Cheating will obviously be a problem...if I were Valve, I think I'd consider significant protocol revisions.

    Some people have said that Valve has included GPLed code in the Half Life 2 code. Dunno as to whether this is true, but I'd like to point out that while this is technically not kosher, I suspect that a lot of places do it -- as long as it's out by release time, I very much doubt that anyone will complain. (On the other hand, if it *isn't* out...)

    This is a good example of why internal security is very important. I don't use any computers at work that don't talk to each other through encrypted connections. I maintain a single trust relationship (pubkey based, not IP based), from a machine that has a superset of the information on a second machine, so there's little point in exploiting trust relationships (plus, if superset machine A were compromised, a keygrabber could easily allow compromise of machine B anyway). I don't use Windows filesharing. These are all very easy to overlook, especially during crunch time, but as Valve has discovered, while the chances of things going sour may be low, the potential damages are enormous. I would urge folks who are working with *any* kind of important IP to do the same -- do *not* rely on Windows filesharing, do *not* use trust relationships, and do not use unencrypted connections, even on your local network. SFTP exists and there are free clients all over -- you do not have a good excuse for using FTP.

    This is also another example of why it may be worthwhile to have a network admin that does regular security audits. It takes additional time, and the vast majority of time that cost is overhead, but Valve is certainly regretting not doing so at the moment. (We have irregular security audits, which is better than nothing, but obviously not ideal.)

    Finally, I'd like to say "chin up" to the folks at Valve. This sort of thing can be very frusterating, and I'm sure it hasn't helped morale at Valve much, but it's not a game-killer, even if it necessitates changes in the protocol or game engine, and a release delay. Good luck -- I probably won't buy your game, since it's unlikely that there'll be a Linux client, but I expect you'll have healthy sales.

    As for other folks -- remember crack.com, remember Valve -- secure your damn networks already.

    --
    May we never see th
    1. Re:Hate to say it by standsolid · · Score: 1
      I probably won't buy your game, since it's unlikely that there'll be a Linux client, but I expect you'll have healthy sales.
      you've got the sourcecode... why don't you make the port to linux so we can all enjoy this game :D
      --
      WTPOUAWYHTTOTWPA
      What's the point of using acronyms when you have to type out the whole phrase anyways?
    2. Re:Hate to say it by NSash · · Score: 5, Informative
      Some people have said that Valve has included GPLed code in the Half Life 2 code. Dunno as to whether this is true, but I'd like to point out that while this is technically not kosher, I suspect that a lot of places do it -- as long as it's out by release time, I very much doubt that anyone will complain.

      They're talking about the Havok physics engine. Two things:

      1. It's LGPL, not GPL
      2. Valve is using the Havok physics engine under a commercial license, so it's legit.

    3. Re:Hate to say it by psyco484 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      VALVe officially "0wnZ j00," should've posted anonymously...

      Seriously, I considered downloading it since I like to toy with 3d programming, and I'd love to see how the "pros" do it, but then I realized that if I were to be caught, anything I might ever want to release myself could be considered infringement in some skewed sense. So I steered clear of it even though the educational benefits would be amazing. I've looked at the quake source code, but it didn't help me much, and by now it's horribly outdated, so seeing some real, working and current, source code to something like this would be beyond incredible for me to pick apart and analyze.

      I wish VALVe could open their engine up, but I definitly understand the possibility for cheating, and their obvious right to make a profit on what so far looks incredible. I won't be buying the game for the same reason as you, no Linux client, but I know for a fact they'll do well. I hope they take the time to rework portions of the code that could allow cheating since that's probably the single worst thing that can happen to a game.

      Honestly though, I'm really interested in what this will do to their overall release date, since it was already delayed for reasons unknown. Or maybe the reasons are known now, since the dates were around when it was supposed to go gold...hmmmm, makes you think.

      Good luck to VALVe, take this opportunity to tighten your code and fix steam, I'm tired of hearing my Windows friends complaining about it :).

    4. Re:Hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      utils/vmpi/mysql/include/mysqld_error.h is GPL, not LGPL.

    5. Re:Hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fine, it's GPL. But they still purchaced a fucking god damned commercial license, so it's legit. Do you understand? Nod ya head.

    6. Re:Hate to say it by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Because such a port would not be legal in the United States and most other nations. As such, few people would work to maintain it, and few would be willing to distribute it.

      Secondly, the game content -- audio, etc, would still be commercial. While I might be willing to spend time porting code of some game to Linux, if I made the extensive kind of time investment involved, I would expect content-creating members of the project to do the same -- to donate their work, so that it may be distributed freely. Obviously, that will not happen in this case.

      --
      May we never see th
    7. Re:Hate to say it by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      VALVe officially "0wnZ j00," should've posted anonymously...

      True, and the act of downloading such software infringes their copyrights. However, there would be very little benefit to Valve in attempting to pursue the thousands of people that obtained the code through Slashdot alone, much less through secondary and alternate distribution. They're trying to keep websites from posting the code, but obviously it will never be eliminated.

      Seriously, I considered downloading it since I like to toy with 3d programming, and I'd love to see how the "pros" do it, but then I realized that if I were to be caught, anything I might ever want to release myself could be considered infringement in some skewed sense.

      No, this is not correct. This is a popular misconception that dates back to the reverse engineering of IBM's PC BIOS. To be *absolutely certain* that there would be no legal challenges (not because it was legally necessary, but because it made it obviously impossible for any engineers to have copied code), Phoenix did not allow any of their engineers that had seen IBM source to be involved in the reverse engineering of the BIOS. While this so-called "clean-room" effort has been cited many times over, it does not have ground in legal *requirements*. Perfectly legal non-clean-room reverse engineering occurs daily in industry -- and you're not even talking about reverse engineering, but simply implementation of a project in a similar category.

      I've looked at the quake source code, but it didn't help me much, and by now it's horribly outdated, so seeing some real, working and current, source code to something like this would be beyond incredible for me to pick apart and analyze.

      You do not have to worry about legal taint (IANAL). However, if you want a modern 3d engine to look at and are still concerned, you may want to check out the LGPLed Crystal Space.

      --
      May we never see th
    8. Re:Hate to say it by ymgve · · Score: 1

      But that's not part of the game source code - that's just one of the utilities they use to create the game. No foul play here.

    9. Re:Hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may be legit, but it's crappy code.

      For staters, they need to learn how to use strncat() correctly.

    10. Re:Hate to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got the source huh? Mind making a bittorrent link for us? Pretty please?

      On suprnova preferrably

    11. Re:Hate to say it by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      and even if it were something they had planned to distribute, they have not distributed it yet. Therefore, they are absolutely not in violation of the GPL, because there's no requirement to distribute source to people that did not receive the software from you in the first place.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  6. some stupid comments here already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Two machines on every desk!

    They're developing a game with multiplayer internet capabilities and internet-based content delivery. How are they supposed to not connect their development machines to the internet? If they aren't to ship with networking, sure.

    The code should be locked up!

    Every programmer, licensee - and presumably a few hardware developers (such as ATI) - would have the code. It would be sitting in a source control database somewhere, plus probably daily backups would be taken of that database. Employees might also be allowed to take their work home with them. For example, I'm a programmer (no, not at Valve) and can connect to my work LAN using a VPN and get direct access to the SourceSafe databases for our various projects.

    They're using GPL source code they've not released!

    Um... newsflash: HalfLife 2 isn't out yet. Way to start bitching about something that's not happened yet. Even if it did include GPL'd code - by the GPL terms they only have to release that code when the product is for sale. If they have included such code, I'd imagine it's LGPL - and they wouldn't have to release code they've used provided they didn't change it.

    Anyway... Microsoft security = some very scary shit. I thought they'd solved the autorunning-virus-in-your-email thing, but I guess not. I patched the crap out of my Windows installation today, stopped using Outlook Express, went back to Pine for email and started using Mozilla Firebird. If I could work out why KDE 3.1 keeps hanging on me under FreeBSD 5.1, I'd move in that direction.

    1. Re:some stupid comments here already by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Even if it did include GPL'd code - by the GPL terms they only have to release that code when the product is for sale. If they have included such code, I'd imagine it's LGPL - and they wouldn't have to release code they've used provided they didn't change it.

      That's what I thought, initially, but the GPL states you need to be willing to provide the source code upon distribution of the derivated work. Distribution does not equal the game's release, actually, since they also distribute copies of the game before it's released to the general public. I'm not referring to the code leak (heh), but rather to things such as press betas. And of course, the GPL would permit the press to redistribute the code or the game as they see fit.

      In any event, the point is moot since apparently Valve purchased non-GPL licenses for the source they incorporated. More power to them! Still a nice thought experiment.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    2. Re:some stupid comments here already by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 0

      "They're developing a game with multiplayer internet capabilities and internet-based content delivery. How are they supposed to not connect their development machines to the internet?"

      Simple - you have one lot of machines on a private LAN with no connections at all to machines directly or indirectly connected to the internet. When you build a binary that needs testing across the internet, you put the binary, data files and everything except the bleedin sourcecode on a CD, carry it across to an internet capable machine and copy it off the CD.

      Yes, you do have to test the game across the net, that doesn't mean that the sourcecode has to be anywhere near an internet capable box.

    3. Re:some stupid comments here already by arkanes · · Score: 1
      Yeah, because it's so simple to debug netcode with a binary, right?

      If you're going to be that paranoid about security, but still want to keep from increasing your development time by a factor of 10 by allowing your developers access to communications, consider having a private lan with all internal machines firewalled off from internet accesss, and then either have virtual OSes in virtual machines connecting, or have an app server (Citrix or similiar) with internet connectivity.

      And even that is a massive pain. A reasonable security policy thats created by competent people, explained to the develpers, and adhered to is probably "good enough". You can't 100% prevent a hack, especially if theres inside connections. Watch out for your janitors!

    4. Re:some stupid comments here already by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      What is this GPLed code everybody speaks of? Quake? If so, it's probably covered by the license they had to Quake before id GPL'd it.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    5. Re:some stupid comments here already by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

      >Simple

      You are suggesting a level of security and inconvience not practaced in the world except for military level government top secret agencies. Remember, they are a gaming company. Their program will require a patch in the first 1-3 months.

      If you went thorugh all of this pain just to protect a potential leak in one part of your product you might as well have a secure shreeder for your print outs and remove all floppy drives/burners from all machines.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    6. Re:some stupid comments here already by NexusTw1n · · Score: 1
      Anyway... Microsoft security = some very scary shit. I thought they'd solved the autorunning-virus-in-your-email thing, but I guess not. I patched the crap out of my Windows installation today, stopped using Outlook Express


      Well for one thing I doubt they were using Outlook Express, if they were using MS email they'd have been using Outlook, a different product, and a lot more secure out of the box (at least 2000 SP3, or 2002 versions are anyway).

      Putting aside the pros and cons of MS email clients, I'm curious as to why you think MS is to blame for this?

      From the linked article : "We still don't know their entry method."
      For all you know, someone on the inside could have installed the tools deliberately.
      --
      It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --Albert Einstein
    7. Re:some stupid comments here already by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      They're developing a game with multiplayer internet capabilities and internet-based content delivery. How are they supposed to not connect their development machines to the internet? If they aren't to ship with networking, sure.

      The game doesn't have to see the real live internet prior to alpha or beta testing. An internal TCP/IP LAN with generated lag and randomly dropped packets can do nicely. It's damn near required to simulate various conditions anyway.

    8. Re:some stupid comments here already by anonymous+cupboard · · Score: 1

      Actually they *do* point the finger at Outlook and the preview pane. Outlook has got a lot better ('Microsoft' just sent me a 'patch', but the .exe was blocked automatically), but it is still open to exploits.

    9. Re:some stupid comments here already by Sevn · · Score: 1

      Since you are already using Firebird, you might want to look into Thunderbird. Even though it's young, I have had no problems with it. I've got it connecting to 3 different mailboxes with SSL IMAP and I'm amazed at how easy it is to manage everything.

      --
      For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
    10. Re:some stupid comments here already by Doug-W · · Score: 1

      I have yet to be at a game company that DID allow a burner on your desktop. All the ones I've been at any burning even a Linux ISO had to go through the 'Mastering Lab'

    11. Re:some stupid comments here already by buysse · · Score: 1
      Bullshit. Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. At work, we've had to deal with data that had privacy limitation on the order of disabling all output devices. No printer, no network, no floppy, no CD, and no USB ports, and the data itself was on a PGP disk.

      For testing, you can set up a *private* routed internet (not the Internet, an internet) that the development machines are connected to, and separate boxes for non-code activity (documentation that isn't local, downloading a patch, updating the MS Project files, whatever). Any documentation that's needed (MSDN) can be loaded on a local server that's not internet-connected and then accessed over the network. Local instant messaging for the developers with Jabber and private email systems for code-related crap.

      Paranoia is a good thing. If the only assets your company has are that ephemeral and easy to duplicate, you do what has to be done to protect it. Canary traps generated by a few custom mods to CVS might not be a bad idea either (so we can tell who leaked the code).

      --
      -30-
    12. Re:some stupid comments here already by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

      Um... its a GAMING company.

      Its more important that their product is stable, fun and on time rather than have a thick manual of security and procedures.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    13. Re:some stupid comments here already by 693746 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because it's so simple to debug netcode with a binary, right?

      What does it matter whether you are connecting to a machine across a few routers in your building (maybe one is simulating internet latency) instead of a few routers across the country? Why can't you test internet code on a LAN? It's just TCP/IP... works the same on a little network as a big one for the most part.

      And the bits of the internet you can't simulate locally (not sure what that would be).. you can test later on with a binary. If you come across problems you can just try to duplicate them on your LAN.

      Erik

    14. Re:some stupid comments here already by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      The preview pane exploits were patched before the point where Outlook started blocking exe files.

      Basically, they'd have to be using an unpatched Outlook 2000 or older to have gotten hit through that method, unless there's some big preview pane exploit no one knows about.

      Anyway, it's not like Valve's ever jumped to early conclusions before, and I'd take their current explanation ('we dont know') over their previous explanation ('Outlook did it') any day.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    15. Re:some stupid comments here already by anonymous+cupboard · · Score: 1
      Regrettably, you always start with an unpatched system and there can be some time before you have any system fully updated. Office pathes were never as automatic as Windows/IE - you had to explictly download them and the old vulnerability scanner (HFECHECK) didn't pick them up automatically (strange that, it could pick up patch problems with SQL Server). On the other hand there are still some nasties lurking in Internet Explorer.

      I still use O2K from time to time but the distro it came from was already SR1 and I was religious about patches. I can imagine others letting them slip by.

      These guys are under time pressure so I can understand that maybe their system administration wasn't in the best shape. However I still don't understand why all the source code could be so easily stolen in one go (few people need access to the authentication source) and what the firewall was doing all this time.

  7. Re:Oi! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems like quite a few game companies are rather lacking when it comes to security. If the code is so important then why is he reading email, with Outlook no less, on a machine with access to the code? Frankly, it sounds like Valve didn't have any kind of security policy in place and they got bit by it. Hopefully they've learned their lesson.

  8. Moot point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it rather a moot point... as anyone attempting to call Valve on using any GPL (or any other copyright'd code) would have to prove it... and proving it would mean producing the source code... which would be showing that the accusers had a copy of the stolen source code...

    I'm not defending the illegal use of GPL, I'm just saying that it would be a tough claim to file currently.

    1. Re:Moot point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      aguilar v texas
      spinelli v u.s.
      illinois v gates

  9. Re:Perhaps Valve would consider Open Source now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Not going to happen. Game engines are a huge business. Look up how much licensing one goes for sometime and you'll see exactly why they're not about to open source and restrict commercial use of something that could make them many millions of dollars.

    Not to say I wouldn't love to see it happen, I just know it won't, so I'm not holding my breath. If the code were open, someone would port it to other OSs within a couple months. I hope someone doesn't do this however since they're obviously talented, and would likely get screwed by VALVe. Besides, I've got plenty of games to buy that WILL run on Linux, I do think that VALVe just might stand to loose out on at least some customers by not making a Linux client this round of releases (Doom3, MP2 under wine, and UT2004 will all get my $50 when they're released because they at least offer support in varying levels). If a community developer wants to port the code, great, but I hope if they do that VALVe won't get upset that someone did the porting work for them, I'm sure that they'd see it as unauthorized use of their IP, and therefore, a "no no" in general though.

    This is really getting more interesting day by day.

  10. Re:Perhaps Valve would consider Open Source now? by QuantumG · · Score: 1
    Releasing the game engine open source (i.e., non-commercial use only) doesn't cut into their business at all! When you license the engine you'd get source anyway (you do with the Quake III engine).. so it's not like they're giving away their source. Basically they'd only be increasing the number of people who are familiar with their code, and that has to be a good thing. People can develop games non-commercially and then go commercial when their quality reaches a reasonable level (by licensing the engine off Valve).

    As for someone unlawfully porting the game to linux.. well, I can't say it wouldn't get played, and the source code would most likely be open (although you never know.. this source could becomes a guarded treasure). Valve would then be stupid not to pick up all that free development and offer a Linux client (although I doubt they'd want to support it).

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  11. Re:Hate to say it..... by rylin · · Score: 1

    Kazaa?
    Oh dear. . .

    As soon as the gold disc has been sent to the cd plant, it'll appear all over the net.. including your precious kazaa

  12. Linux port by mmmjoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Looking through the code there is a directory called linux, full of makefiles and also #ifdef _LINUX switches through the code (especially in the parts using inline assembly). Whether this is just for the server or not I can't tell.

    The linux makefiles work to an extent, but only after you rework some of the code. I've got to a point where there's some calculations done in asm that I can't get to compile.

    If anyone has got further than that (I can compile up to studiorender/cstudiorender.cpp ) I would love to hear about it.

    1. Re:Linux port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I commented that out, since gcc uses different inline-asm style which im not familiar with, and got a bit further, nowhere near all the way, though. And yes, im quite sure theres a client coming our way, since the graphics and physics engines both get built when using the linux makefiles. Yay!

    2. Re:Linux port by mchappee · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All the way.

      It took some effort, but I coaxed it into compiling and I got about 8 libraries and an executable. I had to go back and do some fixing, but after that it ran. It exited immediately after running. I stopped hacking on it after that. Anyway, it is just the server. However, it looks like the whole engine and helper libraries compile for use by the server. I'm waiting on a hint from valve as to whether they're going to get nasty about people messing with the code. I hope they take the attitude that you can't turn cheese back into milk, and adopt a noble policy wrt people messing around for curiosity's sake. If I see that I'll go further. I'd love to see just how far away a linux client is.

      BTW, I'm not bragging about being 1337 or anything. It's code, I'm a programmer, I was curious. That's why I'm not posting anonymously. Don't even ask for the results, they are not available. Maybe if Valve does something cool, like releases under the Sun CL, or even the GPL (yeah right).

      I've never been a Valve fan. I'm a linux user, and only a linux user. One of the priviliged few that get to use linux exclusively at home and work. That means that Valve allows me to further their cause by running a server but denies me the pleasure of playing their game. It's like they're throwing a party in my house and won't let me come. :-) It's obviously not worth installing/booting windows.

      Gabe, what do you say? Can I come to your party? I'll help out.

      Matthew

      --
      /. finds me to be 20% Troll, 80% Funny
    3. Re:Linux port by Pvt_Waldo · · Score: 1

      Those are for the LINUX version of the dedicated server. Valve's had a HLDS LINUX version for a long time.

    4. Re:Linux port by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 0

      SOmething I thought about perhaps is an issue to programmers.

      Anybody who looks at the code is TAINTED. Any programer may claim they wont look at the code, but this code is.. well tainted to look at exectp for licensees and the developers.

      I can understand kiddies looking at it, but any seasoned programmer would lose something.

      --
    5. Re:Linux port by 33degrees · · Score: 1

      Well, seeing as how the game makes use of DirectX9 for its graphics, making a linux client would involve rewriting all the graphics code, no?

    6. Re:Linux port by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've only found dx8 code:

      materialsystem/shaderdx8/*

      There is:

      materialsystem/shadergl, but it's empty...

      The rendering layer looks reasonably well abstracted, so it wouldn't be a heroic effort to port to GL.

    7. Re:Linux port by mmmjoy · · Score: 1

      I have managed to compile almost all of it without removing any code.
      There is a missing (what a suprise) resource file (cpp) needed by the material system. If you just make and empty file in its place, however, it will continue to compile happily.

      After this I can compile everything except the engine and cs. (cs being dependent on the engine)
      There is a missing engine header file which seems to contain a large number of the functions used in the engine.

      I don't think it can be compiled much further without the header or wihout seriously reworking (or crippling) the engine.

      Any suggestions?

  13. dont get it by croddy · · Score: 1

    why are gamers mad? or is valve just trying to paint it that way?

    1. Re:dont get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, plenty of 'hardcore' Half Life fans that take each and every word that Valve say as holy are mad.

      But then, the thoughts of those people really are not worth much.

    2. Re:dont get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they are mad because they can't find the source? Did you ever think about that?? ;)

    3. Re:dont get it by Haeleth · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you'd been looking forward for most of the year to the release of one of the most hyped games ever, and then someone leaked the source code, making it pretty likely that the game's release will be pushed back several months - wouldn't you be, oh, mildly irritated?

      Crackers are happy. A lot of legit hackers and coders are happy as well, because you don't get to see this sort of code every day. But gamers? Gamers don't want source code, they want the damn finished product!

    4. Re:dont get it by ScorpiusFan · · Score: 1

      Why are gamers mad? Could it be that many gamers like Valve? I have enjoyed buying and playing their products for years, and I hate the fact they are being taken advantage of.

  14. Re:GPL found? by Omicron32 · · Score: 1

    Gah, what the hell. Why can't they just make a Linux client with SDL/OpenGL, for God's sake. They're using LGPL code, they expect us Linux users to support their servers, yet they can't even be bothered to give us a client. Screw you Valve, you just lost another customer.

  15. Re:GPL found? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do "Linux users" have to do with "using LGPL code"?

    Just because the Linux kernel is licensed under the GPL doesn't mean every piece of software that uses LGPL licensed code should be ported to it.

    They are doing nothing outside of their rights.

  16. Cheats possible by Flingles · · Score: 1, Redundant

    As far as I can think there are many possible outcomes:
    1: Cheats become widely available. Cheat programs are made to stop them eg. punkbuster. This = good. I don't mind the supposed "bandwidth hogging" programs on cable.

    2: Cheats are made but not let out for free use. This would be a small problem due to only a few l33t hax0rz having cheats. I prefer to just kill them with my handhack(tm).

    3: A combination of 1 & 2.

    4: Valve delays hl2 to make changes to the code. I hate to say it but I'd rather 1,2 or 3 than this. Besides, anti cheat could possibly be put in with a patch.---best scenario.

    _______________

    --
    Karma: -2^0.5 . Mainly due to the imbibing of dihydrogen monoxide
    1. Re:Cheats possible by parliboy · · Score: 1

      Except that they already did delay HL2, remember? Not that your thoughts don't have merit, just that I personally suspect that Valve has known about the stolen source for some time, and they had to find the right way to frame the language describing the theft.

      --
      "You're never ready, just less unprepared."
  17. Re:GPL found? by slux · · Score: 1

    Actually the code in question most likely was statically linked (as someone reported and as one could imagine that a 3D-game's physics system must be) and the LGPL only permits dynamic linking. So that would not save them.

    But the trail leads to the Crystal Space engine as previously reported here.

    The code in question seems to be contributed to Crystal Space by someone working at Havok who then of course has all the rights to also license it for use in a proprietary product (Havok). This is an assumption based on the fact that the person (Alexander Michael Ewert) has a @havok.com email address.

    I only wish he would have removed the licensing information from the source code file as the code that is included inside HL2 clearly isn't under the LGPL, only the version that was formerly in Crystal Space is.

    Anyway, as far as I can see there is no LGPL violation here. Just a misplaced copyright notice. But it had to be asked and I'm glad we could find out what the situation was.

  18. So WTF by TheOnlyCoolTim · · Score: 2, Funny

    These guys are smart enough to completely own Valve's computers but they're not smart enough to realize that you have to get the art, sounds, levels, and such too if you want to play Half-Life 2.

    Tim

    --
    Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
    1. Re:So WTF by ymgve · · Score: 1

      Maybe they did - maybe they were leeching daily builds of the game up until the day Valve disconnected their network. That only the source got leaked out from the hacker's group of friends doesn't mean he didn't get more.

    2. Re:So WTF by gavinroy · · Score: 2

      they didnt steal the *source* to play the game, they stole the code to exploit it. (Cheats, hacks, etc).

      This is very bad news for the existing hl community. The hlds code that can run hl1 games is there for example. They can hack that to cheat.

      The CD Key verification code is there. I dont think I need to comment on why that's bad.

      The anti-proxy/aimbot obfuscation code is there. Most of this code could be legacy hl1 code or share common patches. This IS VERY BAD.

      This isnt just bad for HL2 delay, this has negative ramificiations for the most popular game/game server engine out there right now (HL/HLSDS).

      What I've not heard about being there is any steam code, *but* if steam client code is there, theres even a bigger problem now.

      The GPL issue is actually a LGPL code snipped in the Havok engine which is a 3rd party licensed physics engine, and the LGPL allows its redistribution without the open source.

    3. Re:So WTF by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      I think the reasoning there is, those can be extracted from a legitimate CD on release.

      They can, however, now remove copy protection, generate valid CD-keys, and so on.

      Not to mention, unfortunately, build some WICKED cheat programs....

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    4. Re:So WTF by DaveCBio · · Score: 1

      Only if Valve uses the entire keyspace and that it highly unlikely.

    5. Re:So WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on certain information, it's been heard that they did get the Content also, just only released the source. Apparently, all together, its 1.3gb...

    6. Re:So WTF by winston_pr · · Score: 1

      I didn't download any of this (source nor 1.3 gb file ) but I did hear that the 1.3 Gb file is a pile of Gay pr0n (surprise surprise) as a treat to any leeching pirates.

      --
      "6EQUJ5"
    7. Re:So WTF by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1
      Ehm? What? You can get the art sounds and "levels" from the cd when it comes out. That is easy. You can bet your ass the source won't be on it. Well unless someone really really screws up at valve.

      This isn't a pirating attack. Pirates wouldn't bother. This is someone who for whatever reason wanted to get his hands on the code. Could be nothing more then bragging rights. Certainly the fact that the code was released immidialtly suggessts this. After all if someone had wanted to steal the code for making their own game they would have kept quit about it.

      --

      MMO Quests are like orgasms:

      You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  19. Linux port? by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2
    Maybe a pissed off Linux user "stole" the code in order to get someone to port it to Linux?

    I would really like to see a Linux port, is anyone working on it yet? :)

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:Linux port? by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      > I would really like to see a Linux port, is anyone working on it yet? :)

      Not going to happen.

      There might be going to be a Linux server, but I doubt you'll enjoy the gameplay on it much. The likelihood of the game itself being ported to Linux is roughly on a par with the Pope converting to Islam.

      Your best bet for a Linux version is to donate vast sums of money to WineX, but frankly it'd be cheaper to grit your teeth and pick up a copy of Windows.

    2. Re:Linux port? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what the hell, WineX costs $5 a month, you can pay for 20 months before you get to the cost of windows

  20. Re:Hate to say it..... by kaellinn18 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I noticed you worded your post very carefully, so I can't say anything to you directly. However, people like the ones you have described (be it you, or not) make me sick. They are stealing thousands of man hours from people who have poured their lives into this. Whether it be HL2, a movie, or MP3s. Yes, I used to download MP3s when I was a freshman in college, but I don't do it anymore because I've realized the ramifications of it. RIAA be damned, you're still taking money away from the people you claim to support.

    As for movies and games, I realize that many people download them as "demos" before going out and actually buying/watching the final product. This is no excuse. That's what demos and movie trailers are for. If that isn't enough for you, wait for reviews. You've waited four odd years already, another month won't kill you. I just find it heartbreaking that people will outright steal the blood, sweat, and tears of other human beings just to save a buck. I guess that's just one of the cons of the capitalist system. (And no, I'm not a communist, so please refrain from "In Soviet Russia, cons have capitalist system!")

    Please, just think before you download stuff.
    /end rant

    --

    --------
    This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along.
  21. Re:GPL found? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're not using SDL because they'd like for the game to run fast on anything less than the new 7 GHz processors coming out. You'd buy the Linux version and then have to wait a year to play it. Then you'd accuse Intel of cooperating with Valve in order to sell more processors.

    I hope you, for one, welcome your new linux-hating-conspiracy overlords.

  22. Re:Perhaps Valve would consider Open Source now? by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

    If they Open Source/GPL it, then others can sell stuff based on it as long as they provide the code freely.

    So Valve Open Source/GPL it, someone builds a game with just textures/maps/ai (which is not OpenSourced/GPL and it doesn't have to be) and then sells it with no license required from Valve.

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  23. yep, I do this at work - 2 separate machines by neye_eve · · Score: 1

    One connected to an "unsecure" T1 (though still behind a firewall, no ports open incoming, no use of Outlook and/or Outlook express). The other computer is connected to the standard frame relay circuit that everyone else in the company is on.

    A mini 2-computer KVM, and I don't have to worry about compromising one network by any actions in the other.

  24. Some of the comments around here astound me. by DaveCBio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some people are acting like this is a gift from god that will force Valve to Open Source. Some are saying that it's payback for not making a Linux version. Do you guys actually believe this stuff?

    Oh, as for the comments on licensing, it how much of the engine source you get depends on the licensing contract. A blanket statement like "You get it all." is erroneous.

  25. And one a Mac by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

    It's been done, the email/web system a Mac and the dev system a PC. The extra cost of a Mac not being an issue since you can get 5 years out of a Mac when used for such lightweight tasks.

    Some thought it was an odd idea originally but that was before the iPod and the iTunes Music Store existed. Opinions changed and the setup is popular now.

    I'd agree to a point that a Linux box could also be used in a similar manner but that argument is not as strong as it used to be. Newer Macs are pretty damn nice Unix boxes. And some large corps. (think financial) take it a little more seriously when their site has problems with a Mac than a Linux box. I am not endorsing this attitude but it happens.

    1. Re:And one a Mac by heXXXen · · Score: 1

      And you can't get as many years out of another machine for the same uses?

      5 years ago Pentium II 450mhz were top of the line. Those are still pretty decent machines.

    2. Re:And one a Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you mister mac zealot! Any other fantasies you want to entertain?

    3. Re:And one a Mac by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      And you can't get as many years out of another machine for the same uses

      The point of the Mac is that the various Windows, Outlook, and Explorer vulnerabilities are irrelevant. Apologies for my assumption that this would be obvious. Additionally, did you miss my point that you could do the same with a Linux box? I merely said we found Macs more convenient.

    4. Re:And one a Mac by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 1

      Thank you mister mac zealot! Any other fantasies you want to entertain?

      That's a pretty weak troll, please try harder next time. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that if I were a Mac zealot I would not have relegated the Mac to merely email and web and referred to only the Windows box for development. A Mac zealot would have gone on at length about developing the game on a Mac for a Mac. A Mac zealot would then suggest that when the publisher pulls out a gun and forces you to do a Windows version you fire up VirtualPC on a dual 2G G5. The Mac zealot would of course ignore the fact that VirtualPC is not G5 compatible. The Mac zealot would then compare a G5 optimized ByteMark against the 486 optimized ByteMark Apple normally uses for their comparisons to prove that emulating Windows on a dual G5 is faster than running Windows natively on a P4 3.2G 800M FSB with dual channel DDR. ;-)

    5. Re:And one a Mac by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      none of which addresses the statement quoted. You justified the extra cost of the Mac specifically with the ability to use the machine for 5 years, when the simple fact is that any machine used for those simple tasks could be used for 5 years, regardless of what hardware and OS it's running.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  26. I bet the leakers hate steam... by UltimaL337Star · · Score: 0

    I think valve should bait them into the open by offering a sprcial edition won.net multiplayer half life 2.

  27. Re:Perhaps Valve would consider Open Source now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The key point there is that you'd get source *after* you license it. If you get the source beforehand, you could make an entire game and Valve would never legally be able to prove that you used their source in order to do it.

  28. Re:GPL found? by BobTheLawyer · · Score: 1

    yes, a business run for profit has an absolute obligation to spend its time and money on something that won't return the investment, just to make you happy.

  29. Forget VALVe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...what about iD?

    (Sorry, people that capitalize something wrong trying to mimic a logo really annoy me.)

    1. Re:Forget VALVe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just going for correctness....besides, it's id, look at their website.

  30. Re:Hate to say it..... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    Well, I wasn't trying to conceal anything. I was not speaking of myself, I WAS in fact speaking of the people I mentioned. I however have downloaded things in the past. But it usually IS indeed to sample. If there is a playable demo that gives me a good feel for the game, I'll play that instead. Hell, last year I played the bf1942 demo for an entire school year before I got the money to buy the game (which I now have). Things like music....I'll download for other reasons. Anything owned by RIAA affiliated labels is fair game. But often times I download the Essential Mix from the BBC which is unavailable anywhere else, even through them. So this is the only way I can get them. And I download episodes of shows I can't watch (if I don't have cable, or there are no DVDs of it out yet).

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  31. The Linux Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There you have it, I don't see any post proclaiming how the attack on Valve was wrong, just people saying that this is payback for disrespecting the Linux community.

    Ahhh yes, there's the Linux Way - If you can't make it yourself, use stolen code from Valve (the hard work of others) against the the very people whom you want on your side and blame Valve for not having perfect security instead of blaming the bastard who attacked them.

    Let's see if they even give you the time of day on the next great game they make.

    And you wonder why companies like SCO manage to make a living off you?

    1. Re:The Linux Way by GISGEOLOGYGEEK · · Score: 1

      hehe cool, i was wondering when someone would finally say that ... now watch it get modded way down by those that would hide the truth!

      --
      George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
    2. Re:The Linux Way by DeathPenguin · · Score: 1

      Payback? That's rediculous. What use do Linux users have for Valve source code? Even if some group of hackers got it to run in Linux, which would require switching from DirectX to OpenGL and Linux-compatible sound and input mechanisms (SDL?), and probably a lot of other things I'm not aware of, there's no way in hell Valve would let them play on-line with Steam in place.

      I'll admit though, I do get a kick out of the irony of it all. They chose to make their game operable only on the Windows platform, they probably did most of their development in Windows, Valve's Anti-Cheat system (VAC) automatically bans Linux users who play Half-Life / Counter-Strike using WINE, and now years of hard work have been compromised by nothing more than an age-old security hole in Outlook Express. I mean, Outlook's problems with the preview window are not obscure little bugs that few people know about, much less know how to exploit.

      Granted, there are probably hundreds of ways Valve's source could've been stolen had it been on a Unix network, it's just amusing how this all played out. I'm sure the folks at Valve aren't stupid, and probably took all sorts of precautions to prevent their code from being leaked. So far it seems that this wasn't an inside job, nor a leak from someone like ATi (Who leaked the Doom 3 E3 demo and sent full Unreal source to id on a laptop). It's just funny how their Achilles heel was an e-mail client.

    3. Re:The Linux Way by TruchiSoft · · Score: 0

      Is no one thinking what will happen when VALVE release HL-2? With this code ANYONE can create its own HL-2 Client, without steam, WON, or anything. So wich one will you use? the original Steamed one? or the hack, wich will allow you to play on (surely) some obscure chinese server with NO need for steam?

  32. piss off gamers? So what... by aber · · Score: 1

    I was browsing the forum at halflife2.net, and all I could think of was a bunch of kids scouring the forums and irc channels following up on every single pathetic lead they can put their hands on. And at virtually any little piece of info they're emailing Valve with it (in fact, the halflife2.net forum is down right now probably for that very reason). Any real leads will just be lost in the noise. And any tracks are now probably overrun by a stampede of kids full of good intentions. If I were Valve, I'd ask them NOT to help...

    Unless Valve really needs those guys' help. Which could be the case, considering the level of amateurism of this whole thing.

  33. They asked for it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They named the company Valve, they should expect leaks!

  34. Help! (slightly OT but I couldn't resist :) by Scooter · · Score: 1

    My computer is infected with the "Steam" virus - so far it's deleted Half Life and all it's mods, and is filling my disk with these 500MB files of junk!

  35. Other Developers? - Uh-oh by deminisma · · Score: 4, Funny

    "There's anecdotal evidence that other game developers have been targeted by whoever attacked us."

    Bad news for 3D Realms today - Duke Nukem Forever source liberated. Sadly, there wasn't that much to liberate.

    Here it is, contents of dukeforever.c:

    main()
    {
    printf("Duke Nukem Forever\n");
    }

    1. Re:Other Developers? - Uh-oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talk about vapourware. Even their "prototype" won't compile without an #include <stdio.h> in there.

  36. Too much ado about nothing by danila · · Score: 1

    Honestly, I don't see how this is a problem for Valve. Assuming they don't do something really nasty in the code, the exposure is harmless. It's unlikely another developer will use the code - too much risk. Cheaters might be a minor problem, but HL2 is primarily a single-player game, so Valve probably has at least a year to update the network code for multiplayer mods. Yes, the secrecy makes some sense in early development stages, but even then not much. The only problem might be early exposure to the game, like in the case of Doom3 alpha, but that won't usually affect the sales anyway. Look at Enter the Matrix - how much were sales hurt by negative reviews? Not at all. How much will Doom3 sales suffer from the leak. Not at all. How much will HL2 sales suffer. Again, not a single bit.

    --
    Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  37. Taking source code home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I do that all the time, my source code and all the company work I do at home is on an encrypted .DMG on my ipod.
    If someone stoled it or even the machines at work, all the data is unusable since to mount the dmg image on OS X you need the password. I create 4.7 DMG images to burn on DVD once a month in case of hardware failures.
    This is very usefull for me and protects the company.

    1. Re:Taking source code home by daveashcroft · · Score: 1

      Call me cynical, but what a fantastic way of getting LOTS of publicity......im sure valve are annoyed with the source being released like this.....but their publicity machine must be very very happy.

  38. Re:Hate to say it..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Get REAL.

    Ok, I agree with your point of not downloading other peoples work, but GET REAL. How can you expect the lowman like you and myself to not save a buck and abuse others rights when the very companies that we work for, and those that we buy from, are all doing the same.

    In the end, things go round in circles.

    At the end of the day we are cows...We go out to work to get greens, we come home with those greens and we get milked by the very people we work for...

    It's all a circle...Earning money to give it back to get some delusion that it makes our lives better (well, playing games...hmmm)...

  39. Theft results in release delay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just to update, CNN.com reports that because of the code theft, Valve is delaying the release of Half-Life II until April 2004 while they rewrite the game, with possible revenue loss because they're going to miss the holiday season. Thank you, code thieves...

    Vivendi's 'Half Life II' code stolen

  40. Where did it say it came because of trojans? by LO0G · · Score: 1

    Gabe's post never indicated the attack vector. It could have been a trojan through outlook, it could have been something else (poor passwords, a machine infected with a trojan that later VPN'ed into the corporate network, etc).

    There's not enough information available externally to blame any attack vector.