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California PUC Calls For A Public Hearing On VoIP

Vick points to this story at Voxilla.com, which says that "A California Public Utilities Commissioner has called for public hearings on the agency's recent demand that Voice over IP service providers apply and be certified as full-fledged telephone companies." The anti-regulation arguments, though, mostly seem to hinge on timing and protocol -- I wish more objectors would argue that there are already too many phone regulations, instead of seeming to promise a boatload more captured users (dollars) if we just let VoIP develop for a few years before unchaining the regulators.

10 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. VoIP doesn't manage physical wires by crow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The big difference between VoIP companies like Vonage and the traditional phone companies is that Vonage doesn't manage any physical connection to its customers. The implications of that one fact are huge.

    First, it means they aren't a natural monopoly. Anyone can start a similar business without investing millions of dollars in each community. The regulatory approach to a non-monopoly should be completely different.

    Second, it means that taxes based on physical connections aren't appropriate. Vonage shouldn't charge for the Universal Connectivity Fund. Granted, there may be good reason to create a Universal Broadband Fund, but that would be based on charges levied by the ISPs, not by secondary service providers.

    1. Re:VoIP doesn't manage physical wires by silentbozo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seem to be ignoring something. If you subscribe to dedicated DSL you're already paying USF on the copper pair going to your house. If I'm going to get VOIP over those copper wires, why should I pay USF twice?

      Think about it. Your argument could easily be applied to wireless - if you let everyone use 802.11b, they should have to pay USF because they might concievably drive established carriers out of business, thus driving down the amount available to fund phone service for schools, libraries, rural and disadvantaged residents, etc.

      I'd rather use these new technologies to provide cost-effective service to everybody, rather than taxing it (and there by limiting its competitiveness) just because an established monopoly is a source of cheap revenue.

  2. Can't undercut by bypassing regulations by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

    First, let's clear up a definition issue here: The VoIP we're talking about here isn't the actual protocol, it's the use of VoIP to provide a connection into the PTSN, effectively it's POTS-over-VoIP.

    POTS is a regulated competitve system at this point. You've got the ILEC former monopolies who now are required to bend over backwards to let CLECs into their interfaces. However, everybody in the POTS business is required to submit their payments into the USF, provide free priority 911 connectivity, and other basic things. What the POTS-over-VoIP services are trying to sell themselves as is a replacement to phone service that costs less, but they're making a lot of their cost savings by cutting corners on the services that the companies they're trying to compete with are required to provide.

    That's unfair competition, and something the regulators need to step in on.

    1. Re:Can't undercut by bypassing regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OK, first of all, they aren't the ILECs' interfaces, or at least, in a sane world they *shouldn't be*... they were paid for by money that resulted from a government granted monopoly... later the infrastructure "ownership" went to the RBOCs, although some of us thought at the time that it would make sense to take it away from the "Baby Bells", put it into the hands of non-profit organizations dedicated solely to its maintenance and enhancement and force them to truly compete in the arena of services.

      That didn't happen, of course - too much money was at stake, and too many politicians' palms were greased at the state and federal level to ensure that it wouldn't happen.

      The Telecommunications Reform act of 1996 was supposed to open up the POTs lines to ILECs, with an eye towards fostering competition. In return, the RBOCs would be allowed to offer long distance services again.

      Again, it didn't happen, not really... ILECs came and went, and the few that have survived have done so only in high population density areas, although I note that Verizon and other RBOCs are now allowed to offer long distance services despite their at best begrudging compliance with the law.

      Cynically, I think that the only reason the California state PUC is getting involved is because the RBOC wants eliminate any competition, and if they start now while the services are small, they can either strangle them at will, or keep them under control and stomp on them at their leisure later.

      There's enough bandwidth now with cable modem and DSL, and enough availability, to make a serious dent in all of the RBOCs' local service cash flow numbers in ony a few yeats if services such as Vonage catch on.

      And as for your statements about 911 services and the USF, all the companies pass that cost on to the customer base, so I fail to see what your point is in that regard - it doesn't cost the RBOCs anything.

  3. Just use end to end VoIP by Skapare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once there is enough high speed IP deployed, we can bypass the traditional voice phone network entirely, and run voice over encrypted end to end IP connections. Imagine "dialing" in the form of domain names. The only reason the regulators are getting into this is because VoIP services are interfacing with the existing voice network. More work needs to be done to phase that voice network out of existance (which will be a long slow thing).

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  4. Purpose of regulation irrelevant to VoIP by Texas+Rose+on+Lava+L · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whole reason why telephone providers are so closely regulated by the government is that the market for land lines is a natural monopoly - that is, competition is impossible because a competitor would have to install a redundant network, which is prohibitively expensive. So, since monopoly is inevitable, the government regulates it to ensure the providers don't take unfair advantage of the monopoly.

    With VoIP, there is no monopoly. There can be dozens of different VoIP providers just as there's dozens (ok thousands) of pr0n sites or dozens of online bookstores.

    When we have a new technology, why don't we rethink the way we regulate things instead of just applying the old regulations to the new technology regardless of whether or not it makes sense to do so?

  5. This is double dipping by cpuffer_hammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You pay your telephony/data tax/fee when you pay your ISP, you should not have to pay again when you use send one kind of bit/byte as apposed to a different kind of bit/byte.
    If you do have to pay then you should be able to subtract the amount from the tax/fee you pay though your ISP.

    Now the moment one of these DSL providers starts connecting lines to peoples houses or other locations then they are a Telco and should act like one.

    I think this is more like a regulatory barrier to entry into voice communications or protectionism for the existing Telco.

  6. VoIP as a real service by BanjoBob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I worked on a major telco VoIP project and we were working with SIP as a real telephone alternative. Cisco was involved as were other vendors. The whole scope of our project was to replace analog telephony with VoIP with a reliable and clean alternative. VoIP traffic has its own inherent problems which the industry is still trying to resolve.

    So, if the telco I worked for was trying to replace conventional telephone service with VoIP then why wouldn't it be considered a telephone service?

    --
    Banjo - The more I know about Windoze, the more I love *nix
  7. No big surprise by CaptainFrito · · Score: 3, Interesting

    C'mon, a Public Utilities Board, who make their living imposing regulations telephone companies want to regulate telephone traffic, and everyone is surprised? PUC's exist because of a lack of competition. VoIP is competitive and therefore poses a threat to their existence. It is self-serving mission creep that they should extend their own charter by thinking that they exist to regulate all forms of voice traffic. What is surprising, is, that it took this long. It was inevitable.

  8. Re:I don't get it--can someone explain VOIP to me? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can someone please tell me why we are looking to a centralised (and billable, taxable) VOIP strategy, instead of a direct peered (or even client/server) model?

    So that you get a real phone number that anyone can call.