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SGI Compares Linux & System V Source Code

mrgoatCEO writes "It seems SGI has finished up their test comparing SCO's Unix System V code and that of the Linux Kernel, according to ITWorld. SGI found that any similarities between the systems (amounting to only about 200 lines of code) have been removed in Linux Kernel 2.4.22, and added that the similarities were 'trivial in amount.'" This follows moves by SCO to terminate SGI's Unix license.

25 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. reminder about shares by Neophytus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Keep a watch on those stock prices and insider trades. Its not like they are even trying to hide it any more.

    1. Re:reminder about shares by PowerBert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The writing is on the wall.
      They're not just dumping stock. According to El Reg they dropped a reseller of 30 years today.

    2. Re:reminder about shares by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those insider sales strongly remind me of how rats jump off a sinking ship..

    3. Re:reminder about shares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      well i happened to have the misfortune of being there two weeks ago.

      I was visiting another company and happened to to walk into there building by mistake.

      Security?? I didnt see any, rather attractive young girl on reception though who didnt seem to know much. I asked for the person i was supposed to be seeing and it took her about 10mins to release they had no one by that name or dept working there.

      Whole building had a really cold dead empty feel to it. On the way out i noticed people coming and going by the side exist loading bucket loads of hardware into (pcs, printers, etc...) into peoples car. Odd i thought.

      Wasnt until i left the meeting i was supposed to be at that i saw the big SCO letter above the building i went to originally!!!

      Anyway from the way people where loading up there cars with hardware it definatly had sinking ship look about it with people grabbing what they could now.

  2. the Comparator gets used... by typobox43 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... and it seemed to identify some things. However, as the article says, there is much that could possibly be in the code that violates copyrights that couldn't be picked up by something such as that. Honestly, how do you compare something like that? Sure, you could have a group of real humans compare the code, but that will be subjective... certainly whoever compares it is going to be looking at things from their own point of view. The problem is, there are very few neutral people towards this issue that would know how to compare such a thing. (Arguably, there are just as few on SCO's side :-)

  3. A little more detail please by OzPhIsH · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, SGI has something we've all been wanting access to, essentially the System V Source. They run a check against the Linux kernal for infingement and only tell us a summary of their findings? Why can't they be more specific? Why can't they say lines 100-110 of module X in Y in the linux kernal came up infringing. They don't have to reveal any "sco owned" code, just what is already opened sourced on the Linux side. I'm I missing something?

    --

    "To lead the people, you must walk behind them"

    1. Re:A little more detail please by ajs · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm not sure to what extent they have or have not done this. I can't fine SGI's original "open letter" anywhere, only this article that slashdot references that in turn talks about and quotes from the letter.

      Anyone have the letter?

      I could not find it on SGI's site.

    2. Re:A little more detail please by OzPhIsH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I really don't think SGI has anything to lose by telling people just to take a closer look at certain parts of code. SCO has ALREADY revoked SGI's Unix license, what more can they do? There is nothing SCO can do about SGI pointing towards a few sections of linux source with a wink and a nod towards the community.

      --

      "To lead the people, you must walk behind them"

    3. Re:A little more detail please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, IBM got sued without any prior notice by SCO. For the most part, they've kept quite because any public statements could be used against them in court. Look at IBM's counter claims and you'll see many instances where they are attempting to use SCO's statements against them. This includes statements that SCO has revoked IBM's AIX license even though Novell claims that they have not.

      I'm not saying one is better than the other but I think it's easy to understand where IBM (a conservative company) is coming from.

    4. Re:A little more detail please by Cyno · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But please remember that matching code is not necessarily infringement. The code could have been copied from the Linux kernel into UNIX. No one knows until it has been proven one way or the other.

  4. Good to be kept honest, anyway. by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In the final analysis, this whole production might end up being a Good Thing.

    First and foremost, it's good to be kept honest -- having other people's IP slipped into your codebase by well-meaning (or otherwise) people is a risk in all development projects. At least with OSS, a company can find the code and get it removed; someday, this will probably be used by a company acting in good faith (as opposed to SCO).

    Second, it'll be nice to have the GPL tested out in court if for no other reason than the ability to point to it and say "it's been tested, it stands up". Given that a lot of important development in the next 10-15 years will be utilizing the GPL as Free-as-in-Speech products slowly displace proprietary fundementals like operating systems, it's important to the industry in general to work out any "bugs" in the GPL and get a prescident established sooner than later.

    And hey, it'll be nice to see McBride brought up on those fraud charges, too -- you can't defraud your investors like this and expect to skate unless you're buddies with the guy in the White House, after all.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:Good to be kept honest, anyway. by the+uNF+cola · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it possible to sue for 0 damages and test out the GPL THAT way?

      Low cost/damaging way to get that out of the way.

      --

      --
      "I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo

    2. Re:Good to be kept honest, anyway. by Pink_Robot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I really like your thoughts, but you might be a bit idealistic. Do you really think SCO is going to let this reach the courts? Moreover, this recent development makes it less likely that McBride will face fraud charges. Think about it, the whole idea with fraud is that their claims had no merit. SGI has cleared everything up, but has confirmed that there is System V code in Linux. Even if SCO is eventually torn apart, McBride has a solid defense that there is in fact some of their code in Linux, even if it has been cleared out. So, yeah, with any luck any infringing code that is in Linux will be removed, but I think a GPL court case is unlikely and fraud charges are equally far off.

    3. Re:Good to be kept honest, anyway. by RealAlaskan · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Second, it'll be nice to have the GPL tested out in court if for no other reason than the ability to point to it and say "it's been tested, it stands up".

      That's not going to happen; at least, not with a sane defendent. The GPL doesn't restrict my rights to (for example) the Linux kernel: it adds rights which copyright law would not give me. If I ``defeated'' the GPL in court, I would lose, since I would lose those additional rights. Anyone who considers challenging the GPL will soon find that it's a fight he can't afford to win ... or lose.

      Only an insane party would challenge the GPL under those terms. SCO has talked about it, but they haven't put any of those loony ``legal theories'' in any of their court filings, so far as I know.

      ... it's important to the industry in general to work out any "bugs" in the GPL and get a prescident established sooner than later.

      Well, yes, it is. But we won't be able to do it in court: no one who is compos mentis is going to take us there, or let us drag him there.

      For the tin-foil-hat crowd, Microsoft might gain by eliminating the GPL. The temporary confusion and delay could give them a few months of breathing room. Still, even if they are funding SCO's sillyness, I doubt that ``break the GPL'' is on their list for Santa, let alone a serious plan.

  5. Hmmm, 200 lines out of millions by hattig · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Copyright law allows for reasonable copying, e.g., a few pages from a book. So surely 200 lines of code out of millions would simply be laughed out of court?

  6. This rose by any other name would just smell by seniorcoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can someone please tell me what SCO really stands for? No I don't mean their morals, which may appear to some untrained observers as unprincipled extortion. I mean does anyone have any good expansion of the initials SCO?

  7. Run Comparator against BSD now by surfinbox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "This comparison revealed a few examples of line-by-line copying, but did not determine whether the code was owned by SCO or in the public domain."
    If Comparator were run against the appropriate *BSD (AT&T public source, right?) I wonder how many of offending script segments would be taken as not SCO's/SysV.

  8. Release the sums ... by taniwha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So SGI ran Eric's program that makes MD5 sums from a source file - why not release those sums so people can do independant analysis? (I can just imagine SCO's lawyers reving up ... "your honor it's a derived work", "we own those numbers" ...)

  9. Good!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Now publish the questionable ~200 lines of code to replace, let us replace them and be done with it!!!

  10. Unfortunately.... by interiot · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Unfortunately SGI is talking only about SGI submitted code:
    • The point of SGI's comparison was to search for any potential matches between Unix System V and any contributions that SGI made to the Linux kernel, not to vet the software for the entire community, Estes said in an interview. "We are not making any kind of representation at all about anybody else's contributed code," he said.
    So SCO could still potentially be right in saying that IBM submitted a lot of Unix code into Linux.

    Curiously, because SGI has access to both codebases, and know how to run the Comparator, SGI probably has a good idea how many non-SGI violations are in the code (eg. the details may be complicated, but surely they can guess within an order of magnitude). So for now, it's IBM and SGI knowing and not telling, SCO knowing and saying as many ludicrous things as possible, and the rest of us left to speculate until this thing goes to court.

    1. Re:Unfortunately.... by RevMike · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So it sounds to me like they found SOMETHING but the important thing was that they had nothing to do with it. Otherwise they could just state that a complete comparison didn't turn up anything.

      Then in September SGI carried out its more comprehensive comparison. "SGI continued our investigation to determine whether any other code in the Linux kernel was even conceivably implicated," Altmaier states in the letter.

      This comparison revealed a few examples of line-by-line copying, but did not determine whether the code was owned by SCO or in the public domain, according to the letter. "SGI has discovered a few additional code segments ... that may arguably be related to the Unix code," Altmaier wrote. He added that these segments were "trivial in amount."

      SGI declined to reveal any details on the additional code segments it found, but the fact that its analysis appears to reveal no extensive overlap between the code in Linux and System V is good news for Linux users, according to Gartner Inc. analyst George Weiss.

      I think it is pretty clear that 1) there might be small amounts of infringing code, 2) the amount of potentially infringing code is far less than SCO has said, 3) the infirnging code may even be from common sources copied into both code bases.
    2. Re:Unfortunately.... by PD · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is so ironic because people bitch about the GPL being "viral".

      I guess the difference is that the GPL specifically outlines the conditions under which a derivative work becomes GPL'ed.

      But SCO's licensing of UNIX seems to incorporate whatever SCO says it incorporates. And that list gets bigger every day.

  11. Brilliant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think a lot of readers have missed the business strategies behind this situation.

    Personally, I think its one of the most brilliant exit strategies ever conceived! I didn't say it wasn't messy or the pissy way to go, but this IS an exit strategy in the works.

    Even before the lawsuits, SCO was facing two prospects - either continue to lose market share and become irrelevant, or make some noise and see what happens.

    They were forced into the latter, simply because they have to make bang for bucks to the officers, employees and stockholders of the company.

    FACT: SCO's IP is worth something.

    Even if they lose their suit, they wil have driven up the value of their IP - SOMEONE will aquire them. IBM? Probably not. Someone will.

  12. If a SCO tree falls in a forest.... by southpolesammy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So SCO is terminating UNIX licenses left and right, but no one even notices. Can anyone point to any decrease in sales due to this with any affected vendor? Does this amount to the general opinion being set that SCO is now being ignored and good luck with enforcing any such lawsuit?

    Is this meek whimper the final end of SCO?

    --
    Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
  13. Re:Why is SGI important to SCO? by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The reason SGI is important is that one of the two pieces of "infringing" code that they showed in a slide show came from SGI (the other one was immediately discounted as not being infringement and nobody ever seems to mention that one anymore).

    They probably had no idea where the code came from or did not think it was going to matter. But it was identified and if it really was an infringement it identified an actual guilty party (somebody at SGI). It seems they have to at least make a show of suing actual infringers and thus have been forced to sue SGI.